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bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010

RE: .mil bases- you forgot lovely tattoo parlors!

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Anil Dikshit
Apr 11, 2007
And "surplus" stores to replace all the equipment that people lose/get stolen from them and do alterations/polishing/haircuts.

Xenoborg
Mar 10, 2007

A hypothetical came up at work:
So medical expenses in the US are notoriously inconsistent and have little oversight. Is there anything in place to prevent collusion between a doctor and a patient? Say the patient says increased the insurance price by 10k and give me a 5k kickback?

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007
Aside from going to jail for insurance fraud?

Old Binsby
Jun 27, 2014

You joke but a lot of dummies try this. If you're going to be a con man, pick literally any target besides insurance companies. They've been there, done that and got so many t-shirts they could blot out the sun with them. Sure, people succeed at this too but a lot try it once too many times. If you trip up, well... prepare to bend over paying back whatever you owe and start your new game+ hard mode life without any (affordable) insurance

Sadly it's usually people in pretty dire straits already that get hosed exponentially trying this

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



I used to work insurance, and my friends in the fraud team always had good stories. I always remember the guy claiming for an expensive watch was asked to send in a photo of him wearing it, which he complies. The only problem was the photo had a calendar in the background that clearly showed the date was the same as the day we requested the photo. Denied.

Jyrraeth
Aug 1, 2008

I love this dino
SOOOO MUCH

My mom used to work in insurance for farms/ranches and said there was a lot of people who would try to pass off 3 bulls as one bull, and things like that. I wish I remembered some stories, 'cause ranchers aren't the smartest fraudsters. Lots of pretending cattle were a better/worse breed and trying to hide the extremely flammable barn with terrible electrical.

Old Binsby
Jun 27, 2014

This guy at least had a watch. It's been a while since I've hung out with anyone in that business so maybe it wasn't well known then to people how easy it is to find the source of an internet image. Anyway I've heard more than one of these cases end with the fraud people simply reverse google image searching . Usually to find nothing but once in a while they end up at some enthousiast forums account two continents away, posted the day before they requested it, lol

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

Jyrraeth posted:

My mom used to work in insurance for farms/ranches and said there was a lot of people who would try to pass off 3 bulls as one bull

like they would put a costume over the 3 bulls, Little Rascals style?? :xd:

also i will mention that Columbus, Georgia (big military base town) is the only place I've ever seen a dedicated store that sells stripper clothes. like the demand is big enough in a town of 200k people that somebody opened a brick and mortar storefront and advertises themselves to all the strippers who read the local papers

fizzymercury
Aug 18, 2011
Houston is covered in stripper clothes/head shop combos. They're always shady as gently caress and I love 'em.

In ranching scam news, the easiest scam is actually to sell less than perfect cows on market in a group deal. Say you go to auction: you take 35 head of cattle, 5 of whom are not worth money on the market due to genetic defect. Then claim there's only 30 head in the bunch, and get some money for the 5 genetically inferior cows. The buyer takes the hit, but still claims the inferior cows on their insurance and collects when they suddenly die of some mysterious gunshot wound/broken leg/animal attack. It's weirdly common (and sad and disgusting) in the high-end beef market. Insurance companies rarely call foul on these claims, I guess cause it's not worth the work to call it out. That's a lot of cows at the end of the day.

e: also so many barns are a hay fire away from a payout it's not even funny. My grandfather always jokes he's gonna take up smoking near the barn again just for the payout.

fizzymercury fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 4, 2017

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



That's almost like how the housing market crashed, just with cows rather than bad quality loans.

Jyrraeth
Aug 1, 2008

I love this dino
SOOOO MUCH

Lutha Mahtin posted:

like they would put a costume over the 3 bulls, Little Rascals style?? :xd:

also i will mention that Columbus, Georgia (big military base town) is the only place I've ever seen a dedicated store that sells stripper clothes. like the demand is big enough in a town of 200k people that somebody opened a brick and mortar storefront and advertises themselves to all the strippers who read the local papers

More boring than that... It was forgetting which is the insured bull and taking pictures of the others, then throwing a hissy fit when the insurance company sends out a dude for an audit because he has a history.

stringball
Mar 17, 2009

Got a dumb automated call from my area code+first 3 digits of my number about some free cruise/hotel combo with voice recognition and the robot asked "I just need to give you some more information, is that ok?" I of course yelled gently caress no you idiot into the phone, the bot registered it as a no and hung up

I remember reading something about simply getting someone to say "yes". If I said yes, what could possibly (even worst case scenario) happen?

Old Binsby
Jun 27, 2014

They record it and cut/paste the yes into a consent bit for something it's hard to back out of because they have real lovely customer service, website and hide/don't use any registered physical addresses
I literally heard this from my grandma so it might as well be a several thousand year old urban legend thing that never happens

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Jyrraeth posted:

My mom used to work in insurance for farms/ranches and said there was a lot of people who would try to pass off 3 bulls as one bull, and things like that. I wish I remembered some stories, 'cause ranchers aren't the smartest fraudsters. Lots of pretending cattle were a better/worse breed and trying to hide the extremely flammable barn with terrible electrical.

Shady car dealers are notorious for pulling these tricks and I'm extremely amused to find out that cattle farmers do the exact same thing but with cows.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Old Binsby posted:

They record it and cut/paste the yes into a consent bit for something it's hard to back out of because they have real lovely customer service, website and hide/don't use any registered physical addresses
I literally heard this from my grandma so it might as well be a several thousand year old urban legend thing that never happens

It's just an urban legend

stringball
Mar 17, 2009

Tunicate posted:

It's just an urban legend

Google brings up some stuff, and I found it strange that they were hoping/baiting me into simply saying"yes I want to know about your free cruise"

Also I could tell straight away it was a bot, but they made to have it sound like a real person and someone could for sure be fooled

stringball fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jul 7, 2017

Anil Dikshit
Apr 11, 2007

Tunicate posted:

It's just an urban legend

My boss hosed up and did this. We started getting black xerox cartridges for a copier model we didn't have with bills for 300 each every two days. The legal department had to get involved.

stringball
Mar 17, 2009

The Sexual Shiite posted:

My boss hosed up and did this. We started getting black xerox cartridges for a copier model we didn't have with bills for 300 each every two days. The legal department had to get involved.

When I looked this up before I posted they brought up a point: Why do they need your voice specifically when they could just say yes to whoever themselves?

My guess after was if you do end up going to court your "yes" recording could be brought up as proof "you" did it? My other guess is having the bot bait you into saying certain words if the victim doesn't realize he/she is talking to one...?

stringball fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 7, 2017

Old Binsby
Jun 27, 2014

the reason I hesitate to believe my grandma is it just makes no sense, if they're doctoring the recordings anyway why even bother using your voice. If you take them to court or whatever they'll get you off their backs and find another sucker. Also is saying yes over the phone a legal way to enter into a binding contract? If it's a robocall, that's definitely weird, but otherwise as well. How do you identify who is dealing with whom? what if I pick up at my friends' house or I get a number that recently changed owners?

Probably best to find the snopes page about it at this point.

e. that was real easy, apparently this thing got a little bit of media attention earlier this year. The story is much older than that though, I'm sure. Doesn't say it's definitely an urban legend though but it just sounds perfect for a PLEASE SEND IT ALONG!!!! chain e-mail/facebook post

http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/

Old Binsby fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jul 7, 2017

stringball
Mar 17, 2009

Yeah snopes was for sure one the first ones I read, just my ~*~*super special anecdotal evidence~*~* lead me to think there was something there

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

I worked at a legit place that would use verbal verification for low dollar (3 digits/month, business to business) agreements. Our verbal verification consisted of more than the word 'yes' though.

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?
I'd assume the can you hear me is more a psychological trick. Salesmen are often taught to get 3 yes responses before trying to close a sale as psychologically it makes you more agreeable.

Living Image
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS

Old Binsby posted:

the reason I hesitate to believe my grandma is it just makes no sense, if they're doctoring the recordings anyway why even bother using your voice. If you take them to court or whatever they'll get you off their backs and find another sucker. Also is saying yes over the phone a legal way to enter into a binding contract? If it's a robocall, that's definitely weird, but otherwise as well. How do you identify who is dealing with whom? what if I pick up at my friends' house or I get a number that recently changed owners?

Probably best to find the snopes page about it at this point.

e. that was real easy, apparently this thing got a little bit of media attention earlier this year. The story is much older than that though, I'm sure. Doesn't say it's definitely an urban legend though but it just sounds perfect for a PLEASE SEND IT ALONG!!!! chain e-mail/facebook post

http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/

Yes, verbal contracts are a thing and you can make them over the phone. One of the essential elements of a contract is 'intention to create a legal relationship' though, which is why legit call centres have those long scripts that make it absolutely clear what you're signing up for. The rest of the things you described are fraud.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

yeah. like, my employer has us call a call center for the annual employee benefits process. most of the time I spend on the call with them is repeating my answers to yes/no questions, and listening to the rep rattle off paragraphs of legalese

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Lutha Mahtin posted:

yeah. like, my employer has us call a call center for the annual employee benefits process. most of the time I spend on the call with them is repeating my answers to yes/no questions, and listening to the rep rattle off paragraphs of legalese

sorry your employer cant afford computers yet

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

sorry you're so sheltered the term "outsourcing" is a foreign concept

Living Image
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS

Our employee benefits are outsourced and managed online, it's not 1993.

Then again we can only change them once a year, even stuff like pension contributions or cycle schemes, which is p. dumb

Class Warcraft
Apr 27, 2006


Xenoborg posted:

A hypothetical came up at work:
So medical expenses in the US are notoriously inconsistent and have little oversight. Is there anything in place to prevent collusion between a doctor and a patient? Say the patient says increased the insurance price by 10k and give me a 5k kickback?

Sorry to go back to this old post but normally all fees for a doctors office/hospital/clinic/whatever are negotiated in advance with the insurance company when they agree to add them to their network - so no doctors can't ask for more money than they agreed to when they made a deal with the insurance group. They do, however, quite often get sneaky by exaggerating the amount of service a patient received. For instance, the amount of time staff spent with you, whether some medical device was custom or not, and especially if you stay in a hospital all sorts of little doodads will be added to the bill.

The insurance companies do audit these and every patient has to get an Explanation of Benefits in the mail wherein the insurance company explains what they paid for, what you owe, and which charges they told the doctors office/hospital/whatever to go gently caress themselves on. Clinics that try to pull that stunt too often with government entities like Medicaid or Medicare though will eventually get audited which is every medical group's worst nightmare because it means at the very least months of insane bureaucracy to prove yourself to the government and at worst them annihilating your company with millions of dollars in clawbacks and probably stripping your eligibility with Medicaid/Medicare, which is a death sentence for most medical practices.

On the other hand, as a patient, if you don't have insurance or the doctor is not part of your network they are allowed to pretty much allowed to bend you over a barrel and have their way with you, and it's up to you to fight them over it.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

I can't remember where I read it, but there was a guy who would send bills to large corporate finance departments.

Always asking for less than 1,000 dollars for some made up service and they would just pay it because that's what they're conditioned to do when they receive a bill and 700 bucks isn't worth the work of tracking down whether it's legit or not when they process all the payments they have to every day.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Must've been before monolithic ERP software, we have a hard enough time time getting our contractors paid for work that was done in the purchasing department's physical office. Yes they painted the floor Frank. It's YOUR FLOOR LOOK AT IT

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!



I worked for a midsize bank, and would often get requests for my budget through from central finance as "we had someone addressed to you, we paid it, now pay us back." Without any sort of checking before paying it.

It was all legit, but I can see how someone could have billed me for something I didn't use and get the money.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Red Oktober posted:

I worked for a midsize bank, and would often get requests for my budget through from central finance as "we had someone addressed to you, we paid it, now pay us back." Without any sort of checking before paying it.

It was all legit, but I can see how someone could have billed me for something I didn't use and get the money.

Wow. How much could they have asked for before someone would have said: "let us check on that first"

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!



There will have been a number, (and if I think hard enough I can probably remember what it was) where they would check first. But in general the theory makes kind of sense - you don't want to be wasting people's time getting sign off for relatively small amounts.

Living Image
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS

spacetoaster posted:

I can't remember where I read it, but there was a guy who would send bills to large corporate finance departments.

Always asking for less than 1,000 dollars for some made up service and they would just pay it because that's what they're conditioned to do when they receive a bill and 700 bucks isn't worth the work of tracking down whether it's legit or not when they process all the payments they have to every day.

This happens a lot. Every few years someone tries it for a huge number and gets paid and it ends up in the news, but generally they scam a few hundred out of a government department or giant corporation for which the amount of money isn't even a rounding error.

The other side of it is supplier fraud, where someone on the inside sets up a fake supplier and pays themselves at just under their own approval limit. Generally they get caught because they're stupid and e.g. put through 40k of new laptops and someone eventually goes "where the gently caress are these laptops we supposedly ordered?" but realistically anyone smart and restrained enough could probably get away with it.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007

Corrode posted:

This happens a lot. Every few years someone tries it for a huge number and gets paid and it ends up in the news, but generally they scam a few hundred out of a government department or giant corporation for which the amount of money isn't even a rounding error.

The other side of it is supplier fraud, where someone on the inside sets up a fake supplier and pays themselves at just under their own approval limit. Generally they get caught because they're stupid and e.g. put through 40k of new laptops and someone eventually goes "where the gently caress are these laptops we supposedly ordered?" but realistically anyone smart and restrained enough could probably get away with it.

If I was doing it I'd make up small transactions of things that nobody will notice aren't there either because they already use up a lot of them or they're small enough not to notice. Printer supplies, shipping crates, mice and keyboards for their computers, that sorta thing.

edit: Even better, actually fill a stockroom with the things but you charge a big markup or something.

Slime fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jul 20, 2017

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Red Oktober posted:

I worked for a midsize bank, and would often get requests for my budget through from central finance as "we had someone addressed to you, we paid it, now pay us back." Without any sort of checking before paying it.

It was all legit, but I can see how someone could have billed me for something I didn't use and get the money.

In my last job, the finance person I worked with spent some time every single month going through all the things that other business units had charged off to ours and rejecting the gently caress out of them when it inevitably turned out to be inappropriate for them to have done so. Corporations scam themselves internally.

fizzymercury
Aug 18, 2011
Office Space was a documentary, apparently.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

fizzymercy posted:

Office Space was a documentary, apparently.
The only fictional part is the happy ending.

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shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Slime posted:

If I was doing it I'd make up small transactions of things that nobody will notice aren't there either because they already use up a lot of them or they're small enough not to notice. Printer supplies, shipping crates, mice and keyboards for their computers, that sorta thing.

edit: Even better, actually fill a stockroom with the things but you charge a big markup or something.

This is how Uline and McMaster Carr already work

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