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MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010


Lutha Mahtin posted:

...but the theoretical basis for detection still exists.

Proteus Jones posted:

Honestly outside of lab conditions and being only feet away, I fail to see how anyone can detect a passive receiver.


Apart from crystal radio sets receivers are not truly passive. Certain types of receivers leak a notorious amount of RF as they are receiving and there are ways to force them to leak more, remotely (potentially useful for detecting some types of IEDs).
It was, during wartime, used to locate spies. Outlawing ham radio during the wars made it easier to detect people using such equipment.
It's also been used by police to detect if you're using a radar detector in places where they aren't legal. Radar detector detector


I don't put much stock in the "TV Detector Vans" actually doing much detecting, but the British absolutely did have the technology and deployed it in mobile units to track down spies years ago.

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Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





goatsestretchgoals posted:

Could they even (theoretically) figure out what channel you were watching on a CRT? Someone else upstream said the UK also has ad-supported channels; could the van tell the difference?

This is exactly what Van Eck phreaking is. With the right equipment you can get a fairly accurate realtime recreation from a CRT or the signal leakage of analog signaling like VGA.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


goatsestretchgoals posted:

Could they even (theoretically) figure out what channel you were watching on a CRT? Someone else upstream said the UK also has ad-supported channels; could the van tell the difference?

In addition to what's already been said about phreaking, from a legal standpoint it wouldn't matter. The TV license is for you to watch ANY broadcast television whatsoever, so it wouldn't matter if you were watching ITV or Channel 5 (Channel 4 is both ad supported AND publicly funded, weirdly), you'd still need the license.

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


Germanies (former) "GEZ" was notorious for being really pushy and basically looking in peoples windows and all that creepy poo poo.
Here we have "TV and radio" or just a radio license. The service that does it sent me a letter when I moved in and I just sent back the reply form saying I don't have a broadcast receiver. Luckily there was a judgement a while ago that specifically stated that PCs can't be defined as broadcast receivers, previously they tried to force people with computers on the radio only plan.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Proteus Jones posted:

This is exactly what Van Eck phreaking is. With the right equipment you can get a fairly accurate realtime recreation from a CRT or the signal leakage of analog signaling like VGA.

Yeah it costs about $2k of equipment or so to read LCD monitors. CRTs cost like $20.

Aix
Jul 6, 2006
$10

SEKCobra posted:

Germanies (former) "GEZ" was notorious for being really pushy and basically looking in peoples windows and all that creepy poo poo.
Here we have "TV and radio" or just a radio license. The service that does it sent me a letter when I moved in and I just sent back the reply form saying I don't have a broadcast receiver. Luckily there was a judgement a while ago that specifically stated that PCs can't be defined as broadcast receivers, previously they tried to force people with computers on the radio only plan.

Actually they changed that up a few years ago (and renamed the GEZ to "ARD ZDF Deutschlandradio"), you pay per household now, no matter which or how many devices you own. So if youve rented in germany ever since the change youve got back fees with them... and theyre greedy assholes, they wont waive them if you "sign up" now

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Fil5000 posted:

In addition to what's already been said about phreaking, from a legal standpoint it wouldn't matter. The TV license is for you to watch ANY broadcast television whatsoever, so it wouldn't matter if you were watching ITV or Channel 5 (Channel 4 is both ad supported AND publicly funded, weirdly), you'd still need the license.

I know back years ago, if you could prove you were in an area where you physically couldn't receive the BBC signals, you could get out of it.

It's all BS though, it's not a tv license it's a 'we will charge every household and dorm room 150 unless you jump through hoops' tax. If they ever turn up at your door with or without the police, tell them to gently caress off.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country


So, Florida is gonna get hosed.

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


Aix posted:

Actually they changed that up a few years ago (and renamed the GEZ to "ARD ZDF Deutschlandradio"), you pay per household now, no matter which or how many devices you own. So if youve rented in germany ever since the change youve got back fees with them... and theyre greedy assholes, they wont waive them if you "sign up" now

I know, that's why I wrote former GEZ, it's now "ARD ZDF Deutschlandradio Beitragsservice", the first 3 parts are unnecessary anyway. But yeah, the system in germany is now "everyone pays, regardless of TV", so the old methods have become obsolete and it's just about getting the money from people.

martinlutherbling
Mar 27, 2010


BigDave posted:

So, Florida is gonna get hosed.



Ah yes hurricanes, the biggest scam of all.

E: Unless...did FEMA make the storm?

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


EL BROMANCE posted:

I know back years ago, if you could prove you were in an area where you physically couldn't receive the BBC signals, you could get out of it.

It's all BS though, it's not a tv license it's a 'we will charge every household and dorm room 150 unless you jump through hoops' tax. If they ever turn up at your door with or without the police, tell them to gently caress off.

Well yeah, don't let them into your property unless they can actually prove they have the legal right to come in there with a warrant.

Corrode
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS



Fil5000 posted:

Well yeah, don't let them into your property unless they can actually prove they have the legal right to come in there with a warrant.

That's the bigger "scam" part - their tendency to pretend to people who are trusting or clueless (old people and students basically, sometimes immigrants) that they have police powers and force their way indoors.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Corrode posted:

That's the bigger "scam" part - their tendency to pretend to people who are trusting or clueless (old people and students basically, sometimes immigrants) that they have police powers and force their way indoors.

Every time I rented in Germany I got a long lecture from the landlord or whoever I was subletting from to the effect of "they will try to barge their way in because you're foreign and they assume you don't know the law, tell them to gently caress off."

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


Corrode posted:

That's the bigger "scam" part - their tendency to pretend to people who are trusting or clueless (old people and students basically, sometimes immigrants) that they have police powers and force their way indoors.

Are there actual cases of this happening then? I'm looking now and pretty much every news story I can find on dodgy TV license inspector behaviour is from the Daily Mail, which I'm always loathe to believe unless there's something else backing it up. Especially when it's about the BBC because they loving hate the BBC.

Edit: Oh, they've subcontracted it out to loving Capita, I believe it entirely.

Corrode
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS



Fil5000 posted:

Are there actual cases of this happening then? I'm looking now and pretty much every news story I can find on dodgy TV license inspector behaviour is from the Daily Mail, which I'm always loathe to believe unless there's something else backing it up. Especially when it's about the BBC because they loving hate the BBC.

Edit: Oh, they've subcontracted it out to loving Capita, I believe it entirely.

Yeah the BBC has never directly operated TV Licensing, it's a separate company (apparently tendered out to Capita now). I've not had an inspector actually try and force entry, but one came to the door and insisted I turn the TV on to prove it wasn't tuned in.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Is there any data for the compliance rates for these TV tax programs? I wonder if the rate of return is worth it what you paid for all the equipment and salaries for the TV inspectors.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



bongwizzard posted:

Is there any data for the compliance rates for these TV tax programs? I wonder if the rate of return is worth it what you paid for all the equipment and salaries for the TV inspectors.

If they can farm the work out I would assume it is. The company who buys the contract to do the collections is assuming all the capitol investment and if they can stay solvent with both that and passing on a chunk of it to the state, then obviously there's a decent enough return. As far as the state is concerned it's free income without having to invest anything.

As with just about all tax farming schemes the only people inconvenienced are the tax payers.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Cyrano4747 posted:

If they can farm the work out I would assume it is. The company who buys the contract to do the collections is assuming all the capitol investment and if they can stay solvent with both that and passing on a chunk of it to the state, then obviously there's a decent enough return. As far as the state is concerned it's free income without having to invest anything.

As with just about all tax farming schemes the only people inconvenienced are the tax payers.

That makes sense, but I'm really curious to know what the voluntary compliance rate is, it's got to be pretty low to make farming out the enforcement profitable.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


It may also be that they're required by statute to enforce it, even though collection might not be especially profitable. It's like how some train stations here are technically open and have one train a week because closing them down is mired in paperwork and stuff that has to go through parliament.

Corrode
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS



bongwizzard posted:

That makes sense, but I'm really curious to know what the voluntary compliance rate is, it's got to be pretty low to make farming out the enforcement profitable.

Idk but in looking I found this fantastic FoI request:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/law_that_states_i_have_to_pay_tv

E: this doesn't give a percentage but the last trust statement from 2015/16 reports 3 billion quid of income so it has to be pretty high.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...41ux_kzwV7WL0Hw

Corrode fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 6, 2017

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house I have felt covid is the best thing that ever happened to me. But instead of enjoying this, I now spend up to 16 hours a day posting weird fake vaccine news and medical advice on some weird idea I can extend covid and keep pretending I'm a shut in on propose.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Every time I rented in Germany I got a long lecture from the landlord or whoever I was subletting from to the effect of "they will try to barge their way in because you're foreign and they assume you don't know the law, tell them to gently caress off."

Germany had a real rash of that not long ago.

:hitler:

stringball
Mar 17, 2009



martinlutherbling posted:

Ah yes hurricanes, the biggest scam of all.

E: Unless...did FEMA make the storm?

Even if he posted that in here by accident, there's lovely people price gouging, if you could consider that a scam

So a hurricane techincally can cause people to be scamed :v:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/09/06/hurricane-irma-case-water-sells-99-99-amazon-residents-fear-price-gouging/636893001/

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS



Lol at this really specific sovereign citizen bullshit. "I've decided it doesn't apply to me so please refund"

Corrode
Apr 24, 2010

HORSE'S ASS



Fil5000 posted:

Lol at this really specific sovereign citizen bullshit. "I've decided it doesn't apply to me so please refund"

It's great because he's so fundamentally misunderstood the basis of British law. We literally had a war about Parliamentary supremacy, we cut off a king's head and everything, Acts of Parliament are the foundation of the legal system and common law exists only where Parliament hasn't seen fit to legislate. Even his examples are wrong, rape is an offence under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, not common law.

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet


MisterOblivious posted:


I don't put much stock in the "TV Detector Vans" actually doing much detecting, but the British absolutely did have the technology and deployed it in mobile units to track down spies cats years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MnyRZLd8A#t=129s

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



OpenBSD spoofed that skit when they added network redundancy (CARP) in version 3.5.

https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#35

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country


stringball posted:

Even if he posted that in here by accident, there's lovely people price gouging, if you could consider that a scam

So a hurricane techincally can cause people to be scamed :v:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/09/06/hurricane-irma-case-water-sells-99-99-amazon-residents-fear-price-gouging/636893001/

Yeah, I meant that for the Current Events thread.

Anyone still getting those scam calls that match the area code and local exchange of your number?

Spazzle
Jul 5, 2003




BigDave posted:

Yeah, I meant that for the Current Events thread.

Anyone still getting those scam calls that match the area code and local exchange of your number?

Yeah, but I never pick up.

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet


Collateral Damage posted:

OpenBSD spoofed that skit when they added network redundancy (CARP) in version 3.5.

https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#35

This is awesome :v:

My wireless is called Cat Detector Van and I swear to god I've had people say "Are the cops here? Why are the cops here? There's something called Cat Detector Van." ...really?

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





stringball posted:

Even if he posted that in here by accident, there's lovely people price gouging, if you could consider that a scam

So a hurricane techincally can cause people to be scamed :v:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/09/06/hurricane-irma-case-water-sells-99-99-amazon-residents-fear-price-gouging/636893001/

seems like a bot price more than anything else - it noticed everything below it selling out so marked up the price.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Spazzle posted:

Yeah, but I never pick up.

Same. If you aren't in my contacts list you go to voicemail.

I have noticed that T-Mobile spam detector is starting to pull some of these in. I've a had an uptick of "SCAM Likely" showing up in caller ID these last couple of days.

Xenoborg
Mar 10, 2007



BigDave posted:

Yeah, I meant that for the Current Events thread.

Anyone still getting those scam calls that match the area code and local exchange of your number?

Constantly, but since I don't live in my hometown and haven't for 10 years I can pretty safely ignore any call from that area code that isn't in my contacts.

Depressio111117
Oct 18, 2014

A whole world of imagination beyond the oompah band.

TheKennedys posted:

This is awesome :v:

My wireless is called Cat Detector Van and I swear to god I've had people say "Are the cops here? Why are the cops here? There's something called Cat Detector Van." ...really?

The loony detector van, you mean.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




lol it's a good name

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Depressio111117 posted:

The loony detector van, you mean.

Never seen so many aerials!

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

When I press the special key
it plays a little melody



Collateral Damage posted:

We have a similar system in Sweden, where each household owning a TV has to pay a yearly fee to finance public service broadcast.

They stopped using detector vans because unlike CRTs, LCDs don't leak RF noise that can be easily detected. It used to be you could get a guy come knocking and asking if you have a TV (and trying to peep into your house to see if they could see one) but nowadays they just send passive aggressive letters. I've never heard of anyone trying to turn it into a scam though.

The public service corporation tried to bend the interpretation of the law a few years ago to include computers and smartphones as well, by arguing that since you can watch public service TV on the web, any device capable of accessing the web should be licensed. Unfortunately for them the law says "...any device intended to receive broadcast..." and they failed to argue that the intended function of a computer is to receive broadcast TV.

I actually got visited by a TV licence inspector in 2015!

I live in Stockholm, Sweden. Hadn't owned a regular TV set for years, and stopped paying the license since you don't need one for computers or smartphones.

You don't have to let them in or answer any questions, so I just told him that I didn't have a TV and he went away.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004

by Cyrano4747


College Slice

BigDave posted:

Anyone still getting those scam calls that match the area code and local exchange of your number?

Yeah, fewer, but still one or two every week. They call when I'm asleep and never leave messages though.

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo


Corrode posted:

Even his examples are wrong, rape is an offence under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, not common law.

Well, no one tell him that.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Employee Pricing has to be some sort of scam. I doubt employees get a great deal on cars, but the insinuation is that they're selling cars and trucks wholesale or something.

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Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




How does that work??? Massdrop for cars? Buy up an entire police auction for cheap? :v:

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