Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Non Serviam
Feb 25, 2006

wAstIng 10 bUcks ON an aVaTar iS StUpid

Proteus Jones posted:

Herbalife is notorious for preying on the Hispanic community. People have lost their life-savings to them.

John Oliver's episode on MLMs is the one I send people who want to know "what's wrong with MLMs?" This is really worth a watch, and he really, really hates Herbalife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

He lifts a lot of his segment from the fantastic documentary "Betting on Zero". It's available on Netflix, if anybody is interested.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet


I'm a fan of pinktruth.com, it's run by a forensic accountant and former Mary Kay lady. A lot of the articles are kinda repetitive, but there's a lot of actual company scripts and documents, the other contributors are almost exclusively former MK ladies with grudges, and she does extensive math on the upper-level suckers' income using MK's own materials to prove they're not actually making money either. Seconding Betting on Zero as well.

Phyzzle
Jan 26, 2008


The weird parts of Merchants of Deception is whenever he and his wife opened a bonus/commission check from Amway, it was not even 1% of what he was expecting, given his sales. And instead of asking for the other 99%, he would just ask 'what do I do' and act very confused because he didn't actually know what his cut was supposed to be. Because it had never occurred to him at any point to find out. (He was also an accountant. A professional auditor.)

ponzicar
Mar 17, 2008


I ran into a few of these MLM scams when I was job searching a few years ago, but was able to avoid wasting my time with any of them. Any job interviewer who doesn't seem to care about your qualifications, and is reluctant to tell you anything specific about the company or job duties is going to be a recruiter for one of these schemes. If you're in doubt, press them for a company name, and then entering it plus the word scam into a search engine will tell you all you need to know.

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH


Proteus Jones posted:

I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, but I've had two voicemails with no corresponding phone call. The voicemail says it's from "+45 2"

The meat of the message:

"This is an urgent message intended for <<Not My First Name>> <<Real Last Name>>. My name is Stephanie I'm contacting you to discuss the matter than has been forwarded to my office for consideration of the legal action including these pending actions which may be filed a lawsuit and complete with the court to discuss an action to be filed against you. You will need to contact the firm directly handling your file."

There's more bullshit, about how if I don't contact them scary, scary things are going to happen.

My question is, how the gently caress are sending a direct VM on my mobile carrier? Is this a case of T-Mobile blocking the call but letting the VM through? Because if that's the case, I'll turn it off and go back to blocking on the phone since that nukes voicemails as well.

Just disregard it. I get legit VMs all the time with no missed calls. Sometimes cell service is unreliable.

As it relates to actual legal matters, you will never receive a proper legal notice via phone or email. It will be sent via certified mail or by a process server.

Suing for nonsense is also a huge scam in and of itself. I've been through several lawsuits at companies that I've worked for that were completely frivolous. Example: a person who sued us for a Slip-and-Fall in the winter, in Minnesota, in the parking lot, while in the middle of a heavy mixture of snow and rain, while carrying a bunch of packages after refusing help to carry said packages with 3 witnesses who recalled the incident.

The dude sued for $250,000. We spent good money with our attorney, and he did the same with his. In the end, he withdrew the lawsuit after 6 months of wasting everyone's time except for the attorneys. They made hella bank. The funny thing is, we knew the dude very well. He was a manufacturers rep that I talked to every day. We even knew that he needed shoulder surgery for several years but couldn't afford it. We knew that he was suing to pay for his shoulder that he already needed work on and to sweeten his income as we had stopped using his company. Bastard.

Yay lawyers.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


https://twitter.com/ShadowFart69/status/942621636787703808

:patriot:

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




come on, that guys a hero. #justice4chuckycheesebitcoinguy

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




Bless that man. Make a coin of his handsome round face.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

I just got this in my email. It looks legit, so I think I'm going to get right into it. I'm leaving the real email addy there so none of you will miss out on this opportunity:

"Sondra Rangel <alvarezixjkatiaol@outlook.com>

Dec 13 (5 days ago)

to me

If you're looking for a full time job, we have something to offer you in a logistics industry. We are sure that comfortable conditions and developed sense of responsibility is the key to success. So let's have a look at our proposition.


Job Responsibilities:

- Stay at your location to receive packages delivered to your address via USPS, UPS, and FedEx during regular working hours 10am - 6pm on a daily basis.
- Browse the list of arriving shipments, your day to day tasks, and shipping labels.
- Check parcels and take and upload pictures of the contents of each package.
- Merge packages in case of need.
- Forward the mail to clients by printing and affixing labels and transporting the mail to the nearest USPS offices.


Your regular working day will be:

- Receive different packages to your address through postal services
- Receive the list of arriving shipments using a special programm.
- Check the presence of the contents in packages, take photos of the contents and upload them
- Pack packages again if necessary
- Send the packages to the final destination, print logos and deliver to the nearest delivery service.


But we also have some required conditions:

- Qualification is considered, but not mandatory.
- Ability to function independently with no supervision.
- US citizenship with a postal address.
- Capability to deal with packages up to 30 lbs


So if you feel like it's you - write us as soon as you can and don't even hesitate. For a better response, please, write us your phone so our HR-manager could contact you and tell more."

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet


Desert Bus posted:

I just got this in my email. It looks legit, so I think I'm going to get right into it. I'm leaving the real email addy there so none of you will miss out on this opportunity:

"Sondra Rangel <alvarezixjkatiaol@outlook.com>

Dec 13 (5 days ago)

to me

If you're looking for a full time job, we have something to offer you in a logistics industry. We are sure that comfortable conditions and developed sense of responsibility is the key to success. So let's have a look at our proposition.


Job Responsibilities:

- Stay at your location to receive packages delivered to your address via USPS, UPS, and FedEx during regular working hours 10am - 6pm on a daily basis.
- Browse the list of arriving shipments, your day to day tasks, and shipping labels.
- Check parcels and take and upload pictures of the contents of each package.
- Merge packages in case of need.
- Forward the mail to clients by printing and affixing labels and transporting the mail to the nearest USPS offices.


Your regular working day will be:

- Receive different packages to your address through postal services
- Receive the list of arriving shipments using a special programm.
- Check the presence of the contents in packages, take photos of the contents and upload them
- Pack packages again if necessary
- Send the packages to the final destination, print logos and deliver to the nearest delivery service.


But we also have some required conditions:

- Qualification is considered, but not mandatory.
- Ability to function independently with no supervision.
- US citizenship with a postal address.
- Capability to deal with packages up to 30 lbs


So if you feel like it's you - write us as soon as you can and don't even hesitate. For a better response, please, write us your phone so our HR-manager could contact you and tell more."

Wow, this sounds completely legitimate! No legal trouble could possibly result from such a great opportunity. Count me in.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

TheKennedys posted:

Wow, this sounds completely legitimate! No legal trouble could possibly result from such a great opportunity. Count me in.

I'm thinking about trying to scam them and whenever a good item comes in, i'm just going to keep it and tell them it didn't come.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Desert Bus posted:

I'm thinking about trying to scam them and whenever a good item comes in, i'm just going to keep it and tell them it didn't come.

The cops'll come though.

Guildencrantz
May 1, 2012

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.


Wait, so what kind of illegal activity is this part of, apart from just being obviously shady? Is the gist of it is that you're moving some kind of contraband, like drugs or stolen/smuggled goods, or is there some deeper scam to it?

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet


Guildencrantz posted:

Wait, so what kind of illegal activity is this part of, apart from just being obviously shady? Is the gist of it is that you're moving some kind of contraband, like drugs or stolen/smuggled goods, or is there some deeper scam to it?

Any number of things, generally shady customs avoidance and/or barely-disguised money laundering

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



No that's basically it. You take the fall when drugs etc get delivered to your address. Considering you're all set up for posting packages out again and there will be evidence all over the place that you've done this they'll get you for dealing/distribution rather than possession.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

FrozenVent posted:

The cops'll come though.

I will scam them using a fake name and a Spider-Man mask. They'll never figure out i'm not Peter Parker.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




I finally got around to reading Merchants and itís driving me nuts that he doesnít talk about how much money heís making at each stage

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Started Ch 4, he mentions that despite working all hours of the day and being told he'd be making at least $2000 a month that he was actually bringing in $600 :stare:

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Professor Shark posted:

I finally got around to reading Merchants and itís driving me nuts that he doesnít talk about how much money heís making at each stage

None.

Especially after buying all the tapes and attending the rallies and poo poo.

Aix
Jul 6, 2006
$10

Desert Bus posted:

I just got this in my email. It looks legit, so I think I'm going to get right into it. I'm leaving the real email addy there so none of you will miss out on this

This one is basically identity theft. They order expensive electronics in your name to your home with the bill arriving after the goods, so you forward the stuff to the scammers before the bill arrives.

Michael Corleone
Mar 30, 2011



I thought they might be ordering stuff with stolen credit cards, then you take the fall, just like the other theory of them sending drugs to you to re-mail. Your idea is good too.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




BiggerBoat posted:

None.

Especially after buying all the tapes and attending the rallies and poo poo.

I'm on Chapter 7 now and he just said that their combined workload of 100 hours a week was pulling in $25,000 a year. That would be horrifying, if not for the part a few sentences later when he talks about his kids reading the Amway produced children's book Just Wait Until We're Diamonds to explain why mommy and daddy are tired all the time:

quote:

We read the book Just Wait Until Weíre Diamond over and over to our kids. It was childrenís book that talked about the lifestyle they would enjoy as Diamond kids. They were very excited about all we were working for. They would look at the book while we were both off at late night meetings and gone for weekends to seminars.

:barf:

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010





Bread Liar

That book actually got posted in here at one point and it's so hosed up. I wish I could find it again.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




It's free?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Professor Shark posted:

I'm on Chapter 7 now and he just said that their combined workload of 100 hours a week was pulling in $25,000 a year. That would be horrifying, if not for the part a few sentences later when he talks about his kids reading the Amway produced children's book Just Wait Until We're Diamonds to explain why mommy and daddy are tired all the time:


:barf:

He's not CLEARING $25,000 a year is the thing. And, yeah, their whole deal is to get it to where you get to be up on the STAGE and pretending to be successful. It's loving disgusting what they do and I can't believe people fall for it.

Then again, it's 2017 and people should know better but televangalists and faith healers sell magic spring water that cures cancer and armageddon pancake mix. At a certain point I find myself getting mad at the people buying it.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


BiggerBoat posted:

armageddon pancake mix.

I'm curious.

The Cubelodyte
Sep 1, 2006

Practicing Hypnolaw since 1990

Grimey Drawer

I assume it's just some 5-gallon bucket of cheap poo poo marketed towards the readiness/prepper crowd.

BogDew
Jun 14, 2006

E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

MightyJoe36 posted:

I'm curious.
Jim Bakker's crap I presume.

the littlest prince
Sep 23, 2006




mmmmm, the texture

FROOOOOOOOG
Jan 28, 2009


Zamujasa posted:

That book actually got posted in here at one point and it's so hosed up. I wish I could find it again.

Here!

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007

Moralists don't really *have* beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded.




The thought of someone reading this to their kids each night (or handing it off to their kids in lieu of parenting because mommy and daddy are busy making it to DIAMOND) is heartbreaking.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Zamujasa posted:

That book actually got posted in here at one point and it's so hosed up. I wish I could find it again.

Oh poo poo, you meant the kids book. I did not expect that to be available online.


BiggerBoat posted:

He's not CLEARING $25,000 a year is the thing. And, yeah, their whole deal is to get it to where you get to be up on the STAGE and pretending to be successful. It's loving disgusting what they do and I can't believe people fall for it.

Then again, it's 2017 and people should know better but televangalists and faith healers sell magic spring water that cures cancer and armageddon pancake mix. At a certain point I find myself getting mad at the people buying it.

Yeah, soon after that post I read that he was making $30 000 as an Emerald before taxes. Jesus Christ.

I'm at the part where he's quitting and expecting it to go badly.

I think my favorite insane moment was when Kerry loses his mind because Eric is "doing better" than him and starts the Amway Goon squad, complete with quick-drawing his gun from his fanny pack and pointing it at a fabric partition that has people on the other side of it :psyduck:

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

MightyJoe36 posted:

I'm curious.

Jim Bakker. THAT Jim Bakker. The convicted felon.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


BiggerBoat posted:

Jim Bakker. THAT Jim Bakker. The convicted felon.

Okay I googled it. JFC. I guess you really can sell literally anything to people. :psyduck:

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country


MightyJoe36 posted:

Okay I googled it. JFC. I guess you really can sell literally anything to people. :psyduck:

And sell it again and again and again!

I still love how, after all the televangelist bullshit, what finally brought him down was the classic 'oversell the booking' scam.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




I'm almost done the book. I'm at the part where he's been out for almost 6 months and is talking to other people who left.

Aside from the horrific amount of harassment and weird poo poo like withholding the income he would have received from Amway, putting it in an account that he cannot access, then sending him letters that they're charging him 10% now 15% for tapes that his members want to return and it's his fault somehow BUT DO NOT CONTACT US BACK OR WE'LL CALL THE POLICE.

I think the strangest part is how he found out that Zack had a secret recording studio that he used to copy the tapes and cut Dexter out of the profits. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so evil.

Why are Zack and Amway so gung-ho about their victims getting their wives to stay at home and eventually quitting their jobs? It seems like having at least one person working a real job would be good to keep the money coming in. Same with when Kerry and Chris drove away all the new recruits with their aggressive insanity and Zack refused to replace them, even though John and Kathy were bringing in all the people/money- they prize unquestioning loyalty over making more money?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Professor Shark posted:

Why are Zack and Amway so gung-ho about their victims getting their wives to stay at home and eventually quitting their jobs? It seems like having at least one person working a real job would be good to keep the money coming in. Same with when Kerry and Chris drove away all the new recruits with their aggressive insanity and Zack refused to replace them, even though John and Kathy were bringing in all the people/money- they prize unquestioning loyalty over making more money?

Basically it's because that flies in the face of how Amway brainwashes people into becoming True Believers and 100% ONLY buying everything from Amway. It's similar to the way they grind recruits down to abandon and ostracize themselves from their friends and family.

Anyone who is not totally committed or all in is seen as a threat which is framed as them being an obstacle to your success as an IBO.

The whole model is built on creating a rabid and fanatical (cult) customer base who are being told that they are "Independent Business Owners" that are only a little more hard work away from success, when, in fact, they are brainwashed consumers who often resort to basically buying from themselves in order to rack up points (PVO). They get to where they spend $5,000 a month in order to get a $1,200 check that they've convinced themselves is "income". They're also told they can wrote off that $3,800 difference on their taxes as a business expense but they can't.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/04/28/tax-court-denies-amway-losses-again/#68060b7f584a

It's like spending more money at Walgreens and stocking that poo poo in your basement just so you can get more reward points.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Just finished the book. I feel that he made great strides in tracking down people who Zack had employed but not treated very well and who could dish dirt on him... but that last metaphor was a bit of a doozy :stare:

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


I just got a call earlier today from the "Windows Department in Microsoft about my computer". I egged the guy on, told him the whole thing sounded suspicious, then asked to speak to his manager, so he hung up.

He said he was in Oregon, but I looked up the number and it's a Quebec, Canada area code. That spoofing is really annoying.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004


Absurd Alhazred posted:

I just got a call earlier today from the "Windows Department in Microsoft about my computer". I egged the guy on, told him the whole thing sounded suspicious, then asked to speak to his manager, so he hung up.

He said he was in Oregon, but I looked up the number and it's a Quebec, Canada area code. That spoofing is really annoying.

You canít trust caller id

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_box

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply