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Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff



The scummy car dealership by my old apartment had a salesdude who tried to hardsell me on a Toyota when I was walking by.

I don't even have a Driver's License. No, I'm not gonna buy a car.

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Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


Thanatosian posted:

I don't understand how judges who do this poo poo get away with it. Jesus loving Christ.

Same way they get away with most of the heinous poo poo they do, American exceptionalism.

Dr.Caligari
May 5, 2005

"Here's a big, beautiful avatar for someone"


If you have a trade-in, don’t ever tell the dealership up front. If they have something you want, do the homework, know your credit, know what financing you can get....then ONLY at the last minute mention you might have a trade-in.

If they know you have a trade-in early on, they will work it so they get your old car for nothing and never give you the lowest price they might if you repeatedly tell them you don’t have a trade-in. I made this mistake once and am still kicking myself for it.

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



Just buy a car used car from a regular person, and pay in cash. Problem solved. Don't trade-in your old car, sell it via classifieds, you'll get more money that way.

My theory is that car dealerships are professional liars, and while a private person can also lie about the mechanical state of the car, I think you will on average get more honest answers out of people, and thus a better and cheaper car.

If you can't be without a car for a period of time, buy the new (used) car first, then immediately start trying to sell the old one (if you have one).

It's what I've always done, and it's also naturally better for your economy, since you aren't taking up a loan. If you must buy some more expensive car, perhaps you can borrow from your parents at 0% or low interest (and pay them back of course). I myself have always been satisfied with what I could buy used, in cash over the past 12 years.

fizzymercury
Aug 18, 2011


I buy and refurb cars regularly as a hobby and Pilsner is right, only private sales. Maybe a creepy used car lot that used to be a gas station is cool if you're savvy. The big secret: If they won't let you drive the car off to get it checked by a real mechanic, then you don't want that loving car. This includes going to a normal dealership.

Pro car lots aren't always an outright scam, but they're always overcharging you and you are never going to come out the hero who scammed the scammer. Ever. That's what fake rear end fees that you legally can not avoid are for.

You wanna buy a car for it's actual cash value? Make friends with a mechanic. They know what's up.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Pilsner posted:

Just buy a car used car from a regular person, and pay in cash. Problem solved.


You do realize that many people simply don't have $5,000 in cash laying around, right? Also, to your second point about getting cash for your car: yes, that's a great idea but a LOT of people NEED the car they have to get to work to pay for the car you're talking about them buying.

Meaning, if I needed to sell my car for $2500 in order to have enough cash to buy the $5000 one, there's a whole lot of logistical issues there and saying "just buy a car" is not always helpful advice.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 31, 2017

fizzymercury
Aug 18, 2011


You shouldn't have to go through the car lot's financial dept to buy a car. You can go to the bank and get a loan for the amount you're looking to spend. You 100% should not go to the lot and ask for financing. That's gonna get you an interest rate that would give Trump a nosebleed. If a bank loan isn't an option, you're probably looking at a cash car, because credit is a thing and not everyone can get it.

I turn over cars and bikes so I have the cash to hand out. I have no idea how to buy a vehicle without cash or credit worthiness, but I assume it involves a shitton of riding the bus?

Haifisch
Nov 12, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Pilsner posted:

It's what I've always done, and it's also naturally better for your economy, since you aren't taking up a loan. If you must buy some more expensive car, perhaps you can borrow from your parents at 0% or low interest (and pay them back of course).
As someone who's had to 'loan' their mom money(I consider it a gift, but she insists on paying me back 100% of the time) for basic things like "a new furnace" and "groceries for the next week", I kind of hate the idea that everyone can go to the Bank of Mom and Dad for stuff like this. It's nice if you can, but a lot of people don't have that option for various reasons(poor parents, financially irresponsible parents, dead parents, estranged parents, etc).

And I know you're saying it's just for a 'more expensive car', but people have to get their first car from somewhere. You're probably not going to avoid having at least one car loan during your life, unless you get your first job in a place where you don't need a car to get around, or unless mom/dad fund it for you. Or unless you were diligent about scraping together savings from college jobs, but there's an upper limit to that unless your parents were taking care of most of your expenses. And the days where you could get a $500-$1000 shitbox and have it roadworthy are long past(unless you find an insanely good deal somewhere).

Although after that first car you can avoid a lot of hassle & financial drain by driving your cars until it's not worth it to keep fixing them, instead of switching every 3-4 years. A lot of people do that, and I have no idea why. I can't imagine going out of your way to have a car payment forever when you don't have to.

BiggerBoat posted:

You do realize that many people simply don't have $5,000 in cash laying around, right? Also, to your second point about getting cash for your car: yes, that's a great idea but a LOT of people NEED the car they have to get to work to pay for the car you're talking about them buying.

Meaning, if I needed to sell my car for $2500 in order to have enough cash to buy the $5000 one, there's a whole lot of logistical issues there and saying "just buy a car" is not always helpful advice.
Ideally once you've paid off Car A, you'd put money into savings to eventually buy Car B(or have a down payment for a bank loan).

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




I know someone who is constantly rolling their car loans into new cars. They drive an unreliable car that costs twice as much as mine in terms of monthly payments

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



BiggerBoat posted:

You do realize that many people simply don't have $5,000 in cash laying around, right? Also, to your second point about getting cash for your car: yes, that's a great idea but a LOT of people NEED the car they have to get to work to pay for the car you're talking about them buying.

Meaning, if I needed to sell my car for $2500 in order to have enough cash to buy the $5000 one, there's a whole lot of logistical issues there and saying "just buy a car" is not always helpful advice.
But does it have to be $5000? My last car, a 2004 VW Polo, cost the equivalent of $4500, but I live in the country with the most expensive cars in the entire world (Denmark). I can't imagine you can't find a decent daily driver from the mid-2000's in the USA for $2000 or less. Am I wrong?

$2000 is not a lot of money in my opinion. If you can't save up $2k over the span of a few months, why borrow money to buy a new car at horrendous rates? The money will quickly be burnt in interest and fees.

Buying brand new cars is just a frivolous waste of money in my opinion, but to each their own. I always advise people to buy a 5-10 year old car, instead of new. You pay out the nose in depreciation, even if you have the cash in hand.

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004


Pilsner posted:

But does it have to be $5000? My last car, a 2004 VW Polo, cost the equivalent of $4500, but I live in the country with the most expensive cars in the entire world (Denmark). I can't imagine you can't find a decent daily driver from the mid-2000's in the USA for $2000 or less. Am I wrong?

$2000 is not a lot of money in my opinion. If you can't save up $2k over the span of a few months, why borrow money to buy a new car at horrendous rates? The money will quickly be burnt in interest and fees.

Buying brand new cars is just a frivolous waste of money in my opinion, but to each their own. I always advise people to buy a 5-10 year old car, instead of new. You pay out the nose in depreciation, even if you have the cash in hand.

you live in a country with universal health care, it's a bit dumb to tell an american "oh just save the money up!", ok buddy ill schedule my broken leg for next fiscal year

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016



Pilsner posted:

But does it have to be $5000? My last car, a 2004 VW Polo, cost the equivalent of $4500, but I live in the country with the most expensive cars in the entire world (Denmark). I can't imagine you can't find a decent daily driver from the mid-2000's in the USA for $2000 or less. Am I wrong?

$2000 is not a lot of money in my opinion. If you can't save up $2k over the span of a few months, why borrow money to buy a new car at horrendous rates? The money will quickly be burnt in interest and fees.

Buying brand new cars is just a frivolous waste of money in my opinion, but to each their own. I always advise people to buy a 5-10 year old car, instead of new. You pay out the nose in depreciation, even if you have the cash in hand.

57% of American households have less than $1000 in savings. 39% have el zilcho.

Guess I'll link source

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house I have felt covid is the best thing that ever happened to me. But instead of enjoying this, I now spend up to 16 hours a day posting weird fake vaccine news and medical advice on some weird idea I can extend covid and keep pretending I'm a shut in on propose.

Pilsner posted:

But does it have to be $5000? My last car, a 2004 VW Polo, cost the equivalent of $4500, but I live in the country with the most expensive cars in the entire world (Denmark).

Denmark has nothing on Singapore.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich


Thanatosian posted:

I don't understand how judges who do this poo poo get away with it. Jesus loving Christ.

being poor is criminalized in the united states

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Pilsner posted:

But does it have to be $5000? My last car, a 2004 VW Polo, cost the equivalent of $4500, but I live in the country with the most expensive cars in the entire world (Denmark). I can't imagine you can't find a decent daily driver from the mid-2000's in the USA for $2000 or less. Am I wrong?


Yes, you are. A few years ago the government had a program that was billed as trying to get fuel inefficient cars off the road, but which really just hosed poor people to give a sloppy BJ to the auto industry. It was called 'cash for clunkers.' I forget the details, but basically you turned in your old car and bought a new one. THe dealer gave you a guaranteed buyback based on some details about the car but usually it was between $2000 and 4,000. The dealers then got the money from the feds and they were REQUIRED to scrap the car. Since dealerships were involved there was a LOT of shady poo poo, especially when you start getting into the sketchy used car lot type places.

The upshot was that all those $500-2000 serviceable but loving junky clunkers that poor people used to drive got crushed because the gov't was frequently offering way more on the incentive than they were worth. This was basically a giant hand job to the car industry (it happened right after the '08 crash and played a big role in floating the industry until the economy bounced back) and coupled with an explosion in predatory sub-prime auto loans it put a lot of relatively poor people into new cars, for a while at least. Of course if you didn't have junker to turn in but needed a cheap car a few years latter, well, you're SOL.

If you wanted a daily driver clunker in the US right now you're looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $5k. I haven't shopped used cars in a while, but the last time I looked that was about where it was for something that wasn't just completely trashed and probably in need of serious repairs - and those were $2k.

edit: I just did a quick search of a few used car listings near me, and the cheapest was $3k for a 2002 GMC Yukon with 314k miles on it. The next cheapest was $4k for a 2004 Acura with 230k miles on it.

Used cars in the US are a cruel joke, doubly so if you aren't able to do the majority of the repairs that a high mileage car requires yourself.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Pilsner posted:

Am I wrong?

$2000 is not a lot of money in my opinion. If you can't save up $2k over the span of a few months, why borrow money to buy a new car at horrendous rates?

Speaking for most Americans, yes you're wrong.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Cyrano4747 posted:

Yes, you are. A few years ago the government had a program that was billed as trying to get fuel inefficient cars off the road, but which really just hosed poor people to give a sloppy BJ to the auto industry. It was called 'cash for clunkers.' I forget the details, but basically you turned in your old car and bought a new one. THe dealer gave you a guaranteed buyback based on some details about the car but usually it was between $2000 and 4,000. The dealers then got the money from the feds and they were REQUIRED to scrap the car. Since dealerships were involved there was a LOT of shady poo poo, especially when you start getting into the sketchy used car lot type places.

The upshot was that all those $500-2000 serviceable but loving junky clunkers that poor people used to drive got crushed because the gov't was frequently offering way more on the incentive than they were worth. This was basically a giant hand job to the car industry (it happened right after the '08 crash and played a big role in floating the industry until the economy bounced back) and coupled with an explosion in predatory sub-prime auto loans it put a lot of relatively poor people into new cars, for a while at least. Of course if you didn't have junker to turn in but needed a cheap car a few years latter, well, you're SOL.


Jesus, you can quit beating that dead horse now, it’s loving pulverized. Cash for clunkers was almost ten years ago and it only paid out for vehicles that got 18mpg or less EPA combined city/highway mileage, meaning that about ten zillion lovely early Nineties Explorers and Grand Cherokees got squashed. Nothing of value was lost. None of the CFC vehicles would have kept running very much longer anyway, and the cars people want(Accords, Camries, Corollas, etc) were worth far more than CFC was paying at the time, plus they got too good of gas mileage.

Used cars today are more expensive across the board because everything is pricier, plus the average car will run 150-175,000 miles instead of 100,000 miles, so high-mileage vehicles are more valuable than they used to be. But you can still find ugly-looking shitpiles that run OK for a couple grand, Craigslist is full of them.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

Cat Army


JnnyThndrs posted:

Used cars today are more expensive across the board because everything is pricier, plus the average car will run 150-175,000 miles instead of 100,000 miles, so high-mileage vehicles are more valuable than they used to be. But you can still find ugly-looking shitpiles that run OK for a couple grand, Craigslist is full of them.

Or just check out the used car lots near a military base, or in any low-income neighborhood.

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012



We paid $3,000 for our 2000 Honda Civic hatchy in 2009, and it's still our daily driver (including an 11,000 mile drive around the US in August 2016). We do have an amazing mechanic, though.

Bought it from a Subaru dealer that had taken it as a trade-in on a new Outback.

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



maskenfreiheit posted:

you live in a country with universal health care, it's a bit dumb to tell an american "oh just save the money up!", ok buddy ill schedule my broken leg for next fiscal year
If you can't save up like $400 a month for 12 months (to buy a perfectly drivable $5k car), what business do you even have owning a car? Insurance, fuel, repairs, tires, taxes, and so on. This is basic economics. Owning a new car is not a human right. You could just as well argue that buying a new car that costs you, for example, $500 per month in payments, will shatter the savings you need for future medical emergencies.

Mustached Demon posted:

57% of American households have less than $1000 in savings. 39% have el zilcho.

Guess I'll link source
If someone has less than $1000 in savings, how exactly are they putting down money on a new car from a dealership then? I'm talking against walking into a dealership and buying a car on a downpayment/loan "deal" here, and recommending buying used for cash instead.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Pilsner posted:

If you can't save up like $400 a month for 12 months (to buy a perfectly drivable $5k car), what business do you even have owning a car? Insurance, fuel, repairs, tires, taxes, and so on. This is basic economics. Owning a new car is not a human right. You could just as well argue that buying a new car that costs you, for example, $500 per month in payments, will shatter the savings you need for future medical emergencies.

Did you miss the part where we're talking about the US, a country where in most places not owning a car makes you nigh unemployable?

ponzicar
Mar 17, 2008


Pilsner posted:

If you can't save up like $400 a month for 12 months (to buy a perfectly drivable $5k car), what business do you even have owning a car? Insurance, fuel, repairs, tires, taxes, and so on. This is basic economics. Owning a new car is not a human right. You could just as well argue that buying a new car that costs you, for example, $500 per month in payments, will shatter the savings you need for future medical emergencies.

If someone has less than $1000 in savings, how exactly are they putting down money on a new car from a dealership then? I'm talking against walking into a dealership and buying a car on a downpayment/loan "deal" here, and recommending buying used for cash instead.

Mitt Romney, is that you?

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

I was on a quest to buy a used truck for like two years . It is insane what people want for an old clapped out toyota, poo poo like "01 tacoma, 158k miles, no transmission, raccoon living in cab, $15,000 obo, racoon is friendly!" seems to be most of CL at this point. Or I would call about an add and ask "Are the cab and bed mounts rusted?", like half the time the owner admits they are and we are done, but the other half of the time they lie to me so I spend a morning driving out, immediately crawling under the truck, scraping a fat scab of rust off the mounts, call the owner a jackass, and driving home. I finally got lucky and found a coworker who was selling his beater, it's a crap truck but at least it cost next to nothing. At this point I would rather get a loan and pay interest then deal with CL anymore.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Old Toyota trucks are goddamn completely insane when it comes to cost - they’re perfectly fine vehicles, but in no way justify the prices people ask/pay for them. Rangers are every bit as tough and reliable as Toyotas, and they’re literally half the cost.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Tell me about common cars/vans

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

JnnyThndrs posted:

Old Toyota trucks are goddamn completely insane when it comes to cost - they’re perfectly fine vehicles, but in no way justify the prices people ask/pay for them. Rangers are every bit as tough and reliable as Toyotas, and they’re literally half the cost.

I have had two rangers die premature deaths, so I am not gonna risk a third. Like any over 150k truck, esp a 4wd, is going to be a roll of the dice, but I sunk so much loving money into my last ranger I cannot stand to look at another one.

Emotional investment in a beater truck is the scam you pull on yourself.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Pilsner posted:

If you can't save up like $400 a month for 12 months (to buy a perfectly drivable $5k car), what business do you even have owning a car?

Well first you said this.

Pilsner posted:


$2000 is not a lot of money in my opinion. If you can't save up $2k over the span of a few months, why borrow money to buy a new car at horrendous rates? The money will quickly be burnt in interest and fees.

So $2000/3 months is more like $667 a month. Which is not a small amount of money for many people. Also your missing the part where they have to save that money while paying for all the things you listed (insurance etc) at the same time. It may not be a right but it drat sure is a necessity for many people and this backs them in to a corner.

By the way you sound like an rear end in a top hat when you tell people to just make more money and they won't have a problem.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet




Slippery Tilde

Pilsner posted:

If you can't save up like $400 a month for 12 months (to buy a perfectly drivable $5k car), what business do you even have owning a car? Insurance, fuel, repairs, tires, taxes, and so on. This is basic economics. Owning a new car is not a human right. You could just as well argue that buying a new car that costs you, for example, $500 per month in payments, will shatter the savings you need for future medical emergencies.

If someone has less than $1000 in savings, how exactly are they putting down money on a new car from a dealership then? I'm talking against walking into a dealership and buying a car on a downpayment/loan "deal" here, and recommending buying used for cash instead.

You're a loving moron.

Derpies
Mar 10, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 14 hours!


I got zero percent financing on my car, so yay Subaru.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





RocktheCaulk posted:

I got zero percent financing on my car, so yay Subaru.

Same for my Rav4.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008


Buying cars: total con/scam.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, vehicular or otherwise.

Zodijackylite
Oct 18, 2005

hello bonjour, en francais we call the bread man l'homme de pain, because pain means bread and we're going to see a lot of pain this year and every nyrfan is looking forward to it and hey tony, can you wait until after my postgame interview to get on your phone? i thought you quit twitter...

Back to the real con/scam behind all of this: subprime auto loans

What are they?

quote:

“Essentially, the dealers are not selling cars. They are selling bad loans,” said Adam Taub, a lawyer in Detroit who has defended consumers in hundreds of these cases.

Why do they do it?

quote:

Subprime lenders are willing to take a chance on these risky borrowers because when they default, the lenders can repossess their cars and persuade judges in 46 states to give them the power to seize borrowers’ paychecks to cover the balance of the car loan.

How?!?!

quote:

Most borrowers can’t afford lawyers and don’t show up to court to challenge the lawsuits. That means the collectors win many cases, transforming the debts into judgments they can use to garnish wages.

How often does that happen?

quote:

Almost 9.7 percent of subprime car loans made by non-bank lenders -- including private-equity-backed firms catering to car dealers -- became 90 or more days past due in the third quarter, the highest annualized rate in more than seven years, according to the New York Fed’s quarterly report on household debt and credit. That’s more than double the 4.4 percent rate for subprime loans made by traditional banks, a number that’s been falling pretty steadily since the end of the financial crisis.

So twice as many people don't pay them as banks, but they make HOW MUCH MORE?!?!

quote:

The strategy at Credit Acceptance, which has a market value of $4.4 billion, is yielding big profits. The Michigan company said its return on equity, a measure of profitability, was 31 percent last year — more than four times Bank of America’s return.

So their business strategy is to blood people dry? Yes.

quote:

And collecting on the debt is a critical part of the business. The first item on the quarterly earnings of Credit Acceptance, the large subprime auto lender, is not the amount of loans it makes, but what it expects to collect on the debt.

Repo is a big part of that.

quote:

Repossessions can shatter credit. Like a bankruptcy, repossessions stay on a consumer’s credit report for seven years.

But repossessions are also a cornerstone of the buy here, pay here business model. According to Shilson of the National Alliance of Buy Here, Pay Here Dealers, one-third of buy here, pay here contracts nationally end up in default, which most often results in repossession.

The amount of time between a missed loan payment and when the car can be seized is generally set by state law. Many car dealers also offer an additional 60- or 90-day grace period before repossessing a car.

Still, the Times’ examination found that some buy here, pay here dealers have repossessed a car in as little as two days, as one consumer told the Times in complaining about Car Credit in Tampa. Car Credit did not return requests for comment.



So, on to the horror stories:

quote:

The company, for example, expects a 72 percent collection rate on loans made in 2014 — the year that a used 2009 Volkswagen Tiguan was repossessed from Nina Lysloff of Ypsilanti, Mich.

With all the interest and fees on her Credit Acceptance loan factored in, the car ended up costing her $28,383. Ms. Lysloff could have bought a brand-new Volkswagen Tiguan for $22,149, according to Kelley Blue Book.

When Ms. Lysloff fell behind, the trade-in value on the car was a fraction of what she still owed. Last year, Credit Acceptance sued her for $15,755.

quote:

U.S. Bank is pursuing Tara Pearson for the $9,339 left after her 2011 Hyundai Accent was stolen and she could not pay the fee to get it from the impound lot. When she purchased the car in 2015 at a dealership in Winchester, Ky., Ms. Pearson said, she explained that her only income was about $722 from Social Security.

Her loan application listed things differently. Her employer was identified as “S.S.I.,” and her income was put at $2,750, court records show.

quote:

The numbers kept getting worse for Jeremy McPeek. It started with paying $2,600 down and getting saddled with a high-interest loan on a car worth $5,200. Then came the repairs. Just two weeks in, the engine started knocking and the dealer told him it was shot — so McPeek told the dealer to just collect the car.

The twist: the finance company reported it as a repossession, plunging McPeek’s credit score from 620 to 500.

quote:

At the time, her credit score was about 560 because her identity was stolen when she was 19, Garcia said. She figured that even with a 23 percent interest rate, the biweekly payments would help her build credit.

Garcia said she was never asked her income. She, and others, describe a rushed and confusing process once a car was picked out. Under her sales contract, she would have paid about $18,000 over four years on a car valued by Kelley Blue Book for roughly $5,000. But numerous mechanical issues, including a dead battery that resulted in her physically pushing her car back to the dealer, eventually forced her to trade in the car at another lot. She had already paid about $10,000 to get a trade-in credit of about $7,500.



A bit about the systematic problems behind subprime auto loans, and how the business model is directed to stretch out the loans with more interest and fees, rather than aiming to simply collect the principal and interest.

quote:

Santander Consumer USA, which provides about one in five auto loans nationwide, is fiercely pursuing delinquent borrowers who have gotten mired in debt for financial products they cannot afford and should probably have never been sold in the first place. Aggressive debt collectors could be one factor in the tens of thousands of car repossessions that borrowers have endured, which might in turn lead to an even deeper financial crisis by depriving borrowers of perhaps their household’s only valuable asset. [Santander] has come under fire for unethical sales tactics amid the new subprime feeding frenzy.

Interviews with current and former Santander workers indicate that the company incentivizes employees to “service” debts by steering borrowers to the costliest, riskiest repayment plans. Under an incentive system that rewards performance based on how rapidly and ruthlessly they can squeeze payments from clients, a pressure-cooker office climate pushes workers to skirt ethical corners. The report found that workers press clients toward obtaining “extensions, temporary reductions in payment plans, and loan remodifications that ultimately generate more interest and fee income for Santander.”

Collection workers recalled being coached on how to deflect customer complaints with placating statements and misleading reassurances about the prospects of resolving their debts. The script is rigidly worded to restrict workers from discussing individuals’ economic situations, with “little time or incentive to provide customers with substantive guidance for their individual situations”—suggesting that the company prioritizes wringing out repayment over protecting the customer’s finances.

According to Molly McGrath, author of the report, “Santander’s metrics and incentive system…directly tie collections practices to keeping consumers in bad loans, whether it is through giving out loan extensions, giving a customer a [stopgap temporary deferment]…or in continually reinstating defaulted loans or giving a customer back a car that had been repossessed.” McGrath observed “an environment where employees may inadvertently steer customers into accepting these loan products without a clear understanding of their risk or impact.”

The risky loan terms that Santander pushes seems to draw especially high-risk borrowers, according to the report: “In 2016, the average term for Santander’s loans was 70 months and the average customer payment to income ratio was more than 10 percent. With loans like this, borrowers get ‘upside down’ on their loans very quickly.”


Sources:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/18/business/dealbook/car-loan-subprime.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-14/subprime-auto-delinquency-near-crisis-levels-at-non-bank-lenders
http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/special-report/subprime-auto-loan-tampa-bay-used-car-dealers/
https://www.thenation.com/article/the-latest-predatory-banking-practice-you-havent-heard-about-auto-loans/

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL


Well all of that sounds terrible except for the lady getting $7500 from a 3rd party for a car supposedly only worth around $5000.

mariooncrack
Dec 27, 2008


John Oliver did a video on this same topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


So... anyone know any sub prime auto loan companies looking for more equity?

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Car sales people get so angry when you try to "shop" them, aka trying to get a good deal and do some research and compare offers.

Like, yelling at you angry.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X



Yeah but gently caress poor people, they deserve it

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

When I press the special key
it plays a little melody



NPR’s Planet Money had an episode a while ago about someone who had tried to start a company that sold cars with real non-barganing price tags, like any other store. He was met with massive pushback and lawsuits from the auto sales industry until he gave up.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/03/14/290241292/episode-435-why-buying-a-car-is-so-awful

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Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



Blue Footed Booby posted:

You're a loving moron.
Great argumentation skills you have, did you learn to post like that in the "Debate" & "Discussion" forum?

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