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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Pilsner posted:

If someone has less than $1000 in savings, how exactly are they putting down money on a new car from a dealership then? I'm talking against walking into a dealership and buying a car on a downpayment/loan "deal" here, and recommending buying used for cash instead.

With less than $1,000 in savings how else can they buy the car? You're not getting poo poo for $1000. Your arguments seem rooted in some form of "well, duh, make more money" and "who the hell can't save $150 a week?

A lot of people can't, actually.

You can finance with no money down, btw, which is a big reason people go the financing route. This might be why some posters are calling you a moron.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 2, 2018

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Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



I think Pilsner, living in the wet blanket of scandinavian social democracy, simply doesn't realize much the US fucks over the poor and many parts of its corporate and financial workings are (intentionally or not) designed to make sure that poor people can never clamber out of the debt trap.

If you're working a minimum wage job in Denmark or Sweden you still have some leeway in how you spend your money. If you live somewhere affordable and can cheap out on food almost everyone can put away some money in savings. Also having a car isn't a 100% necessity unless you live out in the sticks or need it for your job. Especially in Denmark which excluding Greenland has the land area of a postage stamp and you can literally bicycle from one side of the country to the other in a day.

the littlest prince
Sep 23, 2006




axolotl farmer posted:

NPRís Planet Money had an episode a while ago about someone who had tried to start a company that sold cars with real non-barganing price tags, like any other store. He was met with massive pushback and lawsuits from the auto sales industry until he gave up.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/03/14/290241292/episode-435-why-buying-a-car-is-so-awful

I love the spokespersonís claim that legal protections for dealers are necessary because they employ people.

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH


BiggerBoat posted:

Far as I know Avon is legit and Mary Kay isn't. Basically, if you're encouraged to recruit people to work under you, it's bullshit.

My uncle's ex-girlfriend drove a Mary Kay pink Cadillac. She made hella bank by defrauding people. Mary Kay products aren't bad, but no-one ever made money selling them. It's all about the game.

The Caddy was really pretty though. Pearlescent pink is absolutely beautiful.

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



mostlygray posted:

My uncle's ex-girlfriend drove a Mary Kay pink Cadillac. She made hella bank by defrauding people. Mary Kay products aren't bad, but no-one ever made money selling them. It's all about the game.

The Caddy was really pretty though. Pearlescent pink is absolutely beautiful.

Seems like the car isn't even really gifted for free to them either:

http://www.pinktruth.com/2016/11/28/the-truth-about-the-mary-kay-pink-cadillac/

http://mentalfloss.com/article/80034/story-behind-mary-kay-pink-cadillac

According to one source, it's just a two-year, partially paid lease. Effectively costing the MK representative even more money.

Zodijackylite
Oct 18, 2005

hello bonjour, en francais we call the bread man l'homme de pain, because pain means bread and we're going to see a lot of pain this year and every nyrfan is looking forward to it and hey tony, can you wait until after my postgame interview to get on your phone? i thought you quit twitter...

Mary Kay at least makes some sense. Makeup is a luxury product, and most stores also have a sales person whose job is to show off the product and make you feel good about it. A $19 thing of lipstick from Sephora, Mac, or Mary Kay doesn't seem all that different to me (a guy who doesn't wear makeup.) Amway is puzzling because you can mailorder cases of off-brand energy drinks that cost more than just buying the name-brand ones in a store.

The back end/MLM part of the business is the scam part, but Amway's weirder because I just can't imagine anyone actually wanting those products.

Vinny the Shark
Oct 11, 2005


A friend of mine was into Amway/Team for a time. They sold XS brand energy drinks that were more expensive, and he would buy a case or two per month. Basically, the company convinces its' distributors that other energy drinks are terrible, don't work and are bad for your health, while XS brand is a "natural" energy booster without all the harmful caffeine, chemicals, or whatever else is in Red Bull, Monster, etc. Also, they sell some BS about how you should buy your products from Amway, since it's money you're going to spend anyway, so why not spend it with your own company instead of Wal-Mart? There was other stuff for sale, like paper products, cleaning supplies and personal care products like mouthwash, hair gel, etc. The real money maker for Amway/Team was selling training materials and having its' distributors attend local seminars and meetings.

I tried a few of the XS drinks that he gave me. To be fair, they did taste pretty good, better than most energy drinks do. I didn't really notice any better boost of energy that I couldn't have gotten from a Red Bull, or really a cup of coffee.

My friend thankfully came to his senses and left Team back in 2011.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008


When you think about it, energy drinks themselves are a scam as long as coffee, tea, and crystal meth all exist.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Amway people have to buy anything they can from Amway, it's how they bleed their victims and cover themselves legally (by having a product). They sell stickers that your "friends" can put on your non Amway products when they visit.

Thanatosian
Apr 16, 2013

Angrier, Bitterer Man


Grimey Drawer

Vinny the Shark posted:

A friend of mine was into Amway/Team for a time. They sold XS brand energy drinks that were more expensive, and he would buy a case or two per month. Basically, the company convinces its' distributors that other energy drinks are terrible, don't work and are bad for your health, while XS brand is a "natural" energy booster without all the harmful caffeine, chemicals, or whatever else is in Red Bull, Monster, etc. Also, they sell some BS about how you should buy your products from Amway, since it's money you're going to spend anyway, so why not spend it with your own company instead of Wal-Mart? There was other stuff for sale, like paper products, cleaning supplies and personal care products like mouthwash, hair gel, etc. The real money maker for Amway/Team was selling training materials and having its' distributors attend local seminars and meetings.

I tried a few of the XS drinks that he gave me. To be fair, they did taste pretty good, better than most energy drinks do. I didn't really notice any better boost of energy that I couldn't have gotten from a Red Bull, or really a cup of coffee.

My friend thankfully came to his senses and left Team back in 2011.

They sell the "all natural" energy drinks because a shitload of the people who get sucked into Amway are Mormon, and think they're not supposed to drink caffeine.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

mostlygray posted:

My uncle's ex-girlfriend drove a Mary Kay pink Cadillac. She made hella bank by defrauding people. Mary Kay products aren't bad, but no-one ever made money selling them. It's all about the game.

The Caddy was really pretty though. Pearlescent pink is absolutely beautiful.

I was in traffic today and some dude had his truck all tricked with Herbalife decals and wraps. Not sure if he works for the company itself or doing the fake it til you make it bit but the motherfucker was committed in any case.

Whole vehicle looked like an Herbalife NASCAR vehicle; if NASCAR cars were Toyota pick up trucks.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Professor Shark posted:

Amway people have to buy anything they can from Amway, it's how they bleed their victims and cover themselves legally (by having a product). They sell stickers that your "friends" can put on your non Amway products when they visit.

Vinny the Shark posted:

A friend of mine was into Amway/Team for a time. They sold XS brand energy drinks that were more expensive, and he would buy a case or two per month. Basically, the company convinces its' distributors that other energy drinks are terrible, don't work and are bad for your health, while XS brand is a "natural" energy booster without all the harmful caffeine, chemicals, or whatever else is in Red Bull, Monster, etc. Also, they sell some BS about how you should buy your products from Amway, since it's money you're going to spend anyway, so why not spend it with your own company instead of Wal-Mart?

This is basically why Amway and the DeVos family are rich as gently caress while everyone else who tries that racket goes broke. The "salespeople" basically buy all the products for their own consumption and there's no wholesaling or retail profits for IBO's whatsoever. They totally convince everyone in the chain to continually buy their overpriced products yet even if you bought 100 cases of vitamins or whatever you still can't sell it and make a loving dime.

It's fairly astonishing. Amway frightens me in ways I can't entirely articulate. They're like a microcosm of supply side economics, empty platitudes, cultish brainwashing and misplaced faith and materialism wrapped in promises of freedom and empty patriotism while labeling anyone who calls bullshit a loser.

It's like an army of Super Republicans. Impressive in its way but that way frightens me.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012




Fake it till you make it is so drat dumb

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Professor Shark posted:

Fake it till you make it is so drat dumb

Worked for Trump.

Dr.Caligari
May 5, 2005

"Here's a big, beautiful avatar for someone"


BiggerBoat posted:

With less than $1,000 in savings how else can they buy the car? You're not getting poo poo for $1000. Your arguments seem rooted in some form of "well, duh, make more money" and "who the hell can't save $150 a week?

A lot of people can't, actually.

You can finance with no money down, btw, which is a big reason people go the financing route. This might be why some posters are calling you a moron.

My town had a dealership that has a monopoly on Ďno credit checkí financing. They are some of the lowest life forms. The inventory they have does look nice in passing, but they donít do any more than wash them and clean the interior. Whatís abhorrent is the price they have on them and the interest they have on their loans. They know people that come to them canít afford these cars, but they will sell them like a 6 year old car on 82 month nothing down financing.

I once heard a salesmen boast about how he sold the same exact car three times. He would sell it to people he knew couldnít afford it, made bank on whatever commission salesmen get, then it would inevitably be repossessed and he would sale it again.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016



Amway gave us Betsy DeVos. That's about all you need to know.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Mustached Demon posted:

Amway gave us Betsy DeVos. That's about all you need to know.

The current Secretary of Education. That's about all you didn't want to know.

mostlygray
Nov 1, 2012

BURY ME AS I LIVED, A FREE MAN ON THE CLUTCH


I can't remember if I posted this before but I used to run the following loan scheme in 7th grade. If I already mentioned it, my apologies.

This is back around '90. My friend and I would offer small loans. $5 bucks at the absolute most, usually $1-2. They were easy loans. They sound harmless.

The loan had no interest as long as it was paid by the following Wednesday. If you took the loan on a Monday, it wasn't due until Wed next week. If you took the loan on a Friday, it was due the coming Wed. Those were the cut-offs.

If you couldn't pay when the loan was due, no big deal. Just pay double the next Wed. If you couldn't pay then, it would double a second time. There was no 3rd forbearance.

I only realized a few years ago that we were loan sharking. It didn't take much roughing up to get payment and negotiations did occur. Work in trade, etc.

We were 12 years old. WTF! We had no training, but we owned the game at the bus stop. We split the proceeds 50/50. It didn't matter if I made the loan or my buddy made the loan. We always split it. It was a good relationship.

Moral: Don't trust a kid. They can run a game better than you can. In retrospect, we could have been on "The Sopranos."

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Get into shit, let it out like diarrhea
Got burnt once, that was only gonorrhea




5300% APR, noice.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

mostlygray posted:

I can't remember if I posted this before but I used to run the following loan scheme in 7th grade. If I already mentioned it, my apologies.

This is back around '90. My friend and I would offer small loans. $5 bucks at the absolute most, usually $1-2. They were easy loans. They sound harmless.

The loan had no interest as long as it was paid by the following Wednesday. If you took the loan on a Monday, it wasn't due until Wed next week. If you took the loan on a Friday, it was due the coming Wed. Those were the cut-offs.

If you couldn't pay when the loan was due, no big deal. Just pay double the next Wed. If you couldn't pay then, it would double a second time. There was no 3rd forbearance.

I only realized a few years ago that we were loan sharking. It didn't take much roughing up to get payment and negotiations did occur. Work in trade, etc.

We were 12 years old. WTF! We had no training, but we owned the game at the bus stop. We split the proceeds 50/50. It didn't matter if I made the loan or my buddy made the loan. We always split it. It was a good relationship.

Moral: Don't trust a kid. They can run a game better than you can. In retrospect, we could have been on "The Sopranos."

While not this usurous, I learned that my mother-in-law basically dealt out loans to family members and used the interest from it as supplemental income. Basically her extended family were immigrants and often needed cash to get established. They couldn't go through normally channels so the bank of Tia Lupe would hook them up. In this case though it wasn't really a scam; she couldn't realistically charge them interest that they had no hope of paying, and at the same time to welch on her loan meant they were hosed because paisano good luck trying to get money for a security deposit when every neighbor, relative, and co worker has heard through the grapevine how you swindled your poor Tia.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



mostlygray posted:

The loan had no interest as long as it was paid by the following Wednesday.

One weird trick loan sharks HATE: putting on Groucho Marx glasses to kite loans

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



mostlygray posted:

I can't remember if I posted this before but I used to run the following loan scheme in 7th grade. If I already mentioned it, my apologies.

This is back around '90. My friend and I would offer small loans. $5 bucks at the absolute most, usually $1-2. They were easy loans. They sound harmless.

The loan had no interest as long as it was paid by the following Wednesday. If you took the loan on a Monday, it wasn't due until Wed next week. If you took the loan on a Friday, it was due the coming Wed. Those were the cut-offs.

If you couldn't pay when the loan was due, no big deal. Just pay double the next Wed. If you couldn't pay then, it would double a second time. There was no 3rd forbearance.

I only realized a few years ago that we were loan sharking. It didn't take much roughing up to get payment and negotiations did occur. Work in trade, etc.

We were 12 years old. WTF! We had no training, but we owned the game at the bus stop. We split the proceeds 50/50. It didn't matter if I made the loan or my buddy made the loan. We always split it. It was a good relationship.

Moral: Don't trust a kid. They can run a game better than you can. In retrospect, we could have been on "The Sopranos."

That's like drug dealer style interest rates, except the 3rd missed payment would incur a chopped off finger or worse. Funny.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Middle school scams? I ran one.

A buddy got free lunch from the school because his family was poor. I got lunch money from my parents because we werenít. I would buy his lunch off him for half my lunch money, leaving us both a few bucks to buy magic cards with after school. Eventually we hooked up similar poor kid / not poor kid pairs to spread the action around.

Eventually we got busted and a lecture about how it was welfare fraud.

Same thing that anti-welfare types wring their hand over people converting food stamps to drugs.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Get into shit, let it out like diarrhea
Got burnt once, that was only gonorrhea




Wow I wish I had had that much imagination. I got handed $2 cash every morning for the $2 school lunch, but there was a vending machine that sold little debbie cakes for $0.50 so I spent my high school years with chronic hypoglycemia and steady $1.50/day income.

Adnachiel
Oct 21, 2012


I got a message on Facebook yesterday from someone I haven't seen or spoken to since middle school. (They said elementary, but it's been less than that.) When I was going through their profile to figure out who they are, I noticed that all of the public groups they belong to are LulaRoe related.

I have a feeling this isn't purely an attempt to reconnect with a childhood friend that just popped back into their head one day. I don't even wear leggings.

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet


Adnachiel posted:

I got a message on Facebook yesterday from someone I haven't seen or spoken to since middle school. (They said elementary, but it's been less than that.) When I was going through their profile to figure out who they are, I noticed that all of the public groups they belong to are LulaRoe related.

I have a feeling this isn't purely an attempt to reconnect with a childhood friend that just popped back into their head one day. I don't even wear leggings.

Must be fairly new to the game if they're still in the "people you knew in middle school" part of their warm market. If they'd been doing it a while, they'd probably be harassing people at Starbucks or passing out gilded business cards in the subway

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


the one time i got handed MLM crap it was a dude pushing poorly copied paper ads for an Herbalife seminar. i still don't know if that dude understood he was on the part of Lake Street where he was competing with people slinging actual drugs

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

I remember back when Pokémon cards were incredibly popular, the elementary schools in my town banned them since the older kids were scamming the younger kids. Stuff like trading 50 worthless commons for a $10 rare.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Lutha Mahtin posted:

the one time i got handed MLM crap it was a dude pushing poorly copied paper ads for an Herbalife seminar. i still don't know if that dude understood he was on the part of Lake Street where he was competing with people slinging actual drugs

At least heroin outperforms placebos!

Nephzinho
Jan 24, 2008





Konstantin posted:

I remember back when Pokémon cards were incredibly popular, the elementary schools in my town banned them since the older kids were scamming the younger kids. Stuff like trading 50 worthless commons for a $10 rare.

I made good money with that racket (that went directly into MTG packs).

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.

Grimey Drawer

Nephzinho posted:

I made good money with that racket (that went directly into MTG packs).

I was always on the wrong side of that racket

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country


Nephzinho posted:

I made good money with that racket (that went directly into MTG packs).

I'm just now realizing what the MTG in MTGOX stood for.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Even better: the OX stands for Online Xchange.

The kicker? It wasnít for MTG cards, but MTG Online cards.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

EL BROMANCE posted:

Even better: the OX stands for Online Xchange.

The kicker? It wasnít for MTG cards, but MTG Online cards.
Right, it was literally a MTGO eXchange... and then he had to backronym that into Mt. Gox because MTGOX inspires no trust in people who don't know about how bad MTGO is and negative trust in people who do.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Empty Gox

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




Step 1. Cut a hole in a GOX

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Someone had to do it.

peanut posted:

Step 1. Cut a hole in a GOX

Step 1 was getting everyone to invest their bitcoin in it. Step 2 was cutting the hole.

Michael Corleone
Mar 30, 2011



I got a text from some weird number to call my bail bondsman a couple of weeks ago, I don't know who the target market for this one is. I also got a text a couple days ago about a court date for some dude, maybe a criminal used to have my number, idk.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



A year into having my number, I still get crazy amounts of calls/texts for the dude who used to have it, including from his workplace. So could be legit old number recycled from someone on bail. Who now might be coming for ya to get his number back!

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Michael Corleone posted:

I got a text from some weird number to call my bail bondsman a couple of weeks ago, I don't know who the target market for this one is. I also got a text a couple days ago about a court date for some dude, maybe a criminal used to have my number, idk.

Yeah, some random dude who's in trouble with the law used to have your phone number. A few years back I was getting random phone calls in spanish asking for Eduardo CONSTANTLY. Eventually I google translated a script that basically went "Eduardo isn't here, please stop calling this number, I have this number now, please tell eduardo's friends that this isn't his number." After reading that one 3 or 4 times they stopped, so I guess it worked.

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