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Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


goatsestretchgoals posted:

I get where you're coming from, but how does the minimum wage checkout person a) discern between grandma being scammed and grandma being hilariously awesome on kiddos birthday? and b) how does minimum wage checkout person tell their boss, who is paid largely on sales bonuses, that they think this old lady might be being scammed but there's no proof?

i think this is pretty clearly a problem retailers have never considered. like imagine how bad it would fail if a retailer tried to train their "minimum wage checkout people" to try and respond to straw purchases of products of questionable utility. i bet the entire economy of the world would collapse if a cashier job ever tried to add the job description requirement of "watch for this type of purchase activity because it is probably related to crime". this is why it's possible for all underage people to openly buy tobacco and alcohol products via proxy buyers. like you can loudly talk right by the cashier HEY THANKS BUDDY FOR BUYING THESE WINE COOLERS I'M NOT OLD ENOUGH and this works every single time it's ever been tried

i can't possibly think of how such behavior could be curtailed

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Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007

Moralists don't really *have* beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded.



Lutha Mahtin posted:

i think this is pretty clearly a problem retailers have never considered. like imagine how bad it would fail if a retailer tried to train their "minimum wage checkout people" to try and respond to straw purchases of products of questionable utility. i bet the entire economy of the world would collapse if a cashier job ever tried to add the job description requirement of "watch for this type of purchase activity because it is probably related to crime". this is why it's possible for all underage people to openly buy tobacco and alcohol products via proxy buyers. like you can loudly talk right by the cashier HEY THANKS BUDDY FOR BUYING THESE WINE COOLERS I'M NOT OLD ENOUGH and this works every single time it's ever been tried

i can't possibly think of how such behavior could be curtailed

I remember a movie theater I worked at was really strict about the age limits for R-rated movies. People were shocked they couldn't just buy tickets for the two kids outside who I'd already told to take a hike.

And it was a small theater so if the kids successfully got a hold of the tickets they had to walk past me to go see the movie. I guess the thought process was that if they were holding the ticket I was powerless to stop them. "Oh no you got me go on in."

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Princess Celestia


Car jackers in Melbourne are ramming the back of random people, then hijacking the 2nd car. Now they have 2, slightly damaged cars.

What's the 2nd car being used for?

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle



To ram even more cars, obviously. Duh.

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.

Grimey Drawer

Comstar posted:

Car jackers in Melbourne are ramming the back of random people, then hijacking the 2nd car. Now they have 2, slightly damaged cars.

What's the 2nd car being used for?

Chop shops? That's basically my guess for all car related scams.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house I have felt covid is the best thing that ever happened to me. But instead of enjoying this, I now spend up to 16 hours a day posting weird fake vaccine news and medical advice on some weird idea I can extend covid and keep pretending I'm a shut in on propose.

Wicked Them Beats posted:

I remember a movie theater I worked at was really strict about the age limits for R-rated movies. People were shocked they couldn't just buy tickets for the two kids outside who I'd already told to take a hike.

And it was a small theater so if the kids successfully got a hold of the tickets they had to walk past me to go see the movie. I guess the thought process was that if they were holding the ticket I was powerless to stop them. "Oh no you got me go on in."

Yeah but alcohol/tobacco age restrictions have legal teeth.

No court in the land cares if you let a kid into an R film. Your boss might, but there are plenty of cinemas where no one gives a poo poo.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004

by Cyrano4747


College Slice

You could have a little spiel the cashiers are required to give about 'no government or legitimate business will ever ask to be paid in these' along with a hotline to call if they need help. It'd be fairly inexpensive to set up, just divert a few cents from every gift card sale.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Konstantin posted:

I think that retail stores have a role to play. Cashiers can typically tell if someone is getting scammed, and giving them the authority to refuse the sale would help.

The issue there is that not everybody buying $500 of gift cards is automatically getting scammed. They might just be, say, going to family gathering with a bunch of people they don't know all that well but want to get gifts and hey, gift cards! They can just use these on whatever they want. Yeah that much in cards looks suspicious and I think it's reasonable for a cashier to be encouraged to ask what's up for that reason but denying the sale automatically every time is too far.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Corsair Pool Boy posted:

You could have a little spiel the cashiers are required to give about 'no government or legitimate business will ever ask to be paid in these' along with a hotline to call if they need help. It'd be fairly inexpensive to set up, just divert a few cents from every gift card sale.

Similar to the piracy fee we paid on blank recoding media for years.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004

by Cyrano4747


College Slice

Midjack posted:

Similar to the piracy fee we paid on blank recoding media for years.

Yeah but this might actually help PEOPLE, not RIAA members. Even if it makes one out of ten people stop and say 'hey this does seem odd' it would be worth it.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Just have a three day waiting period on getting gift cards, with full refund if you change your mind.

Ancillary Character
Jul 25, 2007
Going about life as if I were a third-tier ancillary character

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Just have a three day waiting period on getting gift cards, with full refund if you change your mind.

Then you'll screw over the internet sex workers being paid with gift cards.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Ancillary Character posted:

Then you'll screw over the internet sex workers being paid with gift cards.

If you're using them for that purpose you can plan ahead. Meanwhile, scams depend on pressuring people into doing things at short notice.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004

by Cyrano4747


College Slice

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Just have a three day waiting period on getting gift cards, with full refund if you change your mind.

We can't get mandatory waiting periods for loving firearms, good luck with that.

The companies would throw an absolute fit if you tried to do it, even more than the NRA. I suspect a lot of gift card purchases are last-minute and they'd lose a lot of money if people had 3 days to find something else.

And I don't think it's the right solution to the problem - inconveniencing 99% of people to try to stop some from paying scammers just seems like overkill. Plus there are (sometimes) people that actually need to get their computer workable right away, much like there are some companies that pay crypto ransoms. If I were in the middle of a big project due tomorrow and that happened to me, $300 in gift cards might be a better solution than missing the deadline. Edge cases, but making gift cards harder to buy than guns or medical supplies just seems like a bad way to go about dealing with the issue.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Corsair Pool Boy posted:

We can't get mandatory waiting periods for loving firearms, good luck with that.

Gift cards would absolutely have more chance of having wait periods imposed before guns ever would here.

Hoshi
Jan 20, 2013

:wrongcity:


It seems to me like the way to stop vulnerable people from being taken advantage of is to train their caretakers better to identify it than to have businesses do it

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Corsair Pool Boy posted:

We can't get mandatory waiting periods for loving firearms, good luck with that.

The companies would throw an absolute fit if you tried to do it, even more than the NRA. I suspect a lot of gift card purchases are last-minute and they'd lose a lot of money if people had 3 days to find something else.

And I don't think it's the right solution to the problem - inconveniencing 99% of people to try to stop some from paying scammers just seems like overkill. Plus there are (sometimes) people that actually need to get their computer workable right away, much like there are some companies that pay crypto ransoms. If I were in the middle of a big project due tomorrow and that happened to me, $300 in gift cards might be a better solution than missing the deadline. Edge cases, but making gift cards harder to buy than guns or medical supplies just seems like a bad way to go about dealing with the issue.

You realize your argument could be used against all types of money laundering laws, right? "Oh, but what if someone needs to a pay a ransom to the Mob, we can't just start letting companies flag suspicious money transfers or be forced to report large money transfers to the FBI/IRS!"

Also there's no 2nd Amendment for them to fall back on. Honestly, gift cards themselves are a big scam. Transform legal tender into extremely limited currency! Sometimes with an expiration date!

iajanus
Aug 17, 2004

#GOAT


Corsair Pool Boy posted:

We can't get mandatory waiting periods for loving firearms, good luck with that.

The companies would throw an absolute fit if you tried to do it, even more than the NRA. I suspect a lot of gift card purchases are last-minute and they'd lose a lot of money if people had 3 days to find something else.



Like just giving them the equivalent amount of cash, which they might realise is exactly as thoughtless a gift but at least you can use it anywhere

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Princess Celestia


Don Gato posted:

Chop shops? That's basically my guess for all car related scams.

The car was found after someone edited the plates and crashed it.

Dosn't seem a very profitable operation.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


Hoshi posted:

It seems to me like the way to stop vulnerable people from being taken advantage of is to train their caretakers better to identify it than to have businesses do it

:goonsay:

why yes, my job should be to treat my clients as infants, instead of helping them work toward independence

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Lutha Mahtin posted:

:goonsay:

why yes, my job should be to treat my clients as infants, instead of helping them work toward independence

There is a definite thing where the olds think that because Ace Online said install a thing, they install a thing.

There is validity in explaining that these online fucks are just the same as the scammers in the meat world.

Analogies help.

Hoshi
Jan 20, 2013

:wrongcity:


Lutha Mahtin posted:

:goonsay:

why yes, my job should be to treat my clients as infants, instead of helping them work toward independence

Not what I was suggesting at all. I didn't post a policy by any means, I suggested maybe another vector might be more appropriate than cashiers which is what I think most people were discussing.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Hoshi posted:

Not what I was suggesting at all. I didn't post a policy by any means, I suggested maybe another vector might be more appropriate than cashiers which is what I think most people were discussing.

It isn't just the elderly or otherwise caretaken that get scammed, though.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

EVERYTHING I TYPE IS UTTERLY WORTHLESS


Many stores already have the people at the customer service desk looking out for people getting scammed with Western Union money transfers. Banks certainly all do as well. Part of that probably has to do with anti money laundering legislation and part of it has to do with having a duty of care. I don't think it would be too hard to move the gift card sales to the customer service desk and have a rubric for transactions that might be someone getting scammed.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


Hoshi posted:

Not what I was suggesting at all. I didn't post a policy by any means, I suggested maybe another vector might be more appropriate than cashiers which is what I think most people were discussing.

sure but inherent in your suggestion is that "vulnerable" people need to be policed by their "caretakers". i have worked in the field of human services for nearly nine years, in Minnesota, USA. i have worked exclusively with adults with disabilities, primarily people with developmental disabilities and spmi (severe persistent mental illness). the entire model of your supposed advocacy is decades out of date, and honestly offensive to the basic humanity of the people we serve

our industry has been advocating for many decades that perhaps the people seen by society as defective might have inherent value. wow, shocking. we work tirelessly for pennies on the dollar compared to almost all other work that is ultimately government-funded, much less what we could make in profitable industries. we do this because we realize that our clients aren't retards that need minding, but are perhaps the most brilliant minds and bodies that just can't catch a break

Kidding, they actually are brilliant, objectively. It's just that we live in a society where people like you think it's culturally acceptable to sneer at Those Others who can't help getting scammed because their shiftless minders aren't rabidly protecting MUH TAXES.

Wow I'm sure the dude I work with who has multiple spinal issues and who would take any minum wage job he could if he could get accommodation, like I'm sure he would totally not fall for scams if I babysat him 24/7. Oh wait actually he's more savvy and Extremely Online than you or I will ever be and doesn't need my help protecting himself from scams, he just needs a rehab regimen that actually works and some outside the box thinking for how to turn his unconventional resume into a good position

never mind though because some ignorant goon opened their maw and :goonsay: came out

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


like cmon. just admit you don't know how social services work. take the L and be a (wo)man

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


therobit posted:

Many stores already have the people at the customer service desk looking out for people getting scammed with Western Union money transfers. Banks certainly all do as well. Part of that probably has to do with anti money laundering legislation and part of it has to do with having a duty of care. I don't think it would be too hard to move the gift card sales to the customer service desk and have a rubric for transactions that might be someone getting scammed.

I imagine that's part of the reason they've moved over to gift cards.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

EVERYTHING I TYPE IS UTTERLY WORTHLESS


Absurd Alhazred posted:

I imagine that's part of the reason they've moved over to gift cards.

Most certainly. I would also bet that there wad an intermediate step off Visa gift cards before those became more heavily documented and policed as well. Ditto for AMEX travelers cheques. This is just one step further down the line, and it is probably high time stores started being required to pay attention to gift cards as a tool for fraud, money laundering, and terrorist financing.

Hoshi
Jan 20, 2013

:wrongcity:


Lutha Mahtin posted:

sure but inherent in your suggestion is that "vulnerable" people need to be policed by their "caretakers". i have worked in the field of human services for nearly nine years, in Minnesota, USA. i have worked exclusively with adults with disabilities, primarily people with developmental disabilities and spmi (severe persistent mental illness). the entire model of your supposed advocacy is decades out of date, and honestly offensive to the basic humanity of the people we serve

our industry has been advocating for many decades that perhaps the people seen by society as defective might have inherent value. wow, shocking. we work tirelessly for pennies on the dollar compared to almost all other work that is ultimately government-funded, much less what we could make in profitable industries. we do this because we realize that our clients aren't retards that need minding, but are perhaps the most brilliant minds and bodies that just can't catch a break

Kidding, they actually are brilliant, objectively. It's just that we live in a society where people like you think it's culturally acceptable to sneer at Those Others who can't help getting scammed because their shiftless minders aren't rabidly protecting MUH TAXES.

Wow I'm sure the dude I work with who has multiple spinal issues and who would take any minum wage job he could if he could get accommodation, like I'm sure he would totally not fall for scams if I babysat him 24/7. Oh wait actually he's more savvy and Extremely Online than you or I will ever be and doesn't need my help protecting himself from scams, he just needs a rehab regimen that actually works and some outside the box thinking for how to turn his unconventional resume into a good position

never mind though because some ignorant goon opened their maw and :goonsay: came out

You're right that I have no idea what your field looks like and I was just making a casual post on the internet. You take the internet too seriously. I barely said anything at all and you've invented an entire fantasy about how much I hate and how little I think of disabled people.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!


no you still clearly have your MAGA hat firmly seated

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Lutha Mahtin posted:

no you still clearly have your MAGA hat firmly seated

This is a really weird way to react to someone who didn't say anything of the sort that I've seen in this thread. Maybe chill out.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Wow, that's quite the meltdown.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




People frothing at the mouth to go off on perceived maga trump supporters all over the drat forums. I just want to talk about how a guy called me up asking if I was interested in their duct cleaning services, or telling me he was from Microsoft central security and there's a problem with my computer.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


ilmucche posted:

People frothing at the mouth to go off on perceived maga trump supporters all over the drat forums. I just want to talk about how a guy called me up asking if I was interested in their duct cleaning services, or telling me he was from Microsoft central security and there's a problem with my computer.

It is well known that the internet is a series of ducts, so you may want to call them back. :ohdear:

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Absurd Alhazred posted:

It is well known that the internet is a series of ducts, so you may want to call them back. :ohdear:

Oh, they finally replaced the tubes? Good for them. Things were getting old.

504
Feb 2, 2016

by R. Guyovich


Proteus Jones posted:

Wow, that's quite the meltdown.

Holy poo poo, no joke.

Casual comment not meant to be taken as gospel cause psyc patient level meltdown.

News at 11.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




Absurd Alhazred posted:

It is well known that the internet is a series of ducts, so you may want to call them back. :ohdear:

Didn't catch his name and his number was private. He told me to look in the mirror and gently caress myself when I kept him on the line for a few minutes then told him I lived in an apartment without central air :(

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Money laundering has had an even crazier past than iTunes gift cards:

https://twitter.com/RobertWuhl/status/1023409462223093761

Depressio111117
Oct 18, 2014

A whole world of imagination beyond the oompah band.

ilmucche posted:

Didn't catch his name and his number was private. He told me to look in the mirror and gently caress myself when I kept him on the line for a few minutes then told him I lived in an apartment without central air :(

My favorite thing is scammers getting mad that you won’t let them scam you. I remember one of the guys in those Lenny videos starts saying “gently caress you” after about twenty seconds.

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HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

Depressio111117 posted:

My favorite thing is scammers getting mad that you won’t let them scam you. I remember one of the guys in those Lenny videos starts saying “gently caress you” after about twenty seconds.

I had one of those 'I'm from Microsoft' callers call me back THREE TIMES after I gave him my usual response of 'Ugh no you're not, go away'. He was really annoyed with me and all I was doing was telling him to leave me alone.

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