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504
Feb 2, 2016

by R. Guyovich


Holyshoot posted:

Or talking really quiet in my phone then blasting it with a super loud noise. Or spamming the buttons on my phone.

Donít do this.

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ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

The other reason old phones run shittier is because all old computers do. Software just gets continually more complex and demanding so old equipment will seem like it slows down, especially as you install more stuff. It's a fact of existence really. Plus like was said why would you bother testing for hardware that nobody has bought in a few years that will probably all be replaced soon?

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


ToxicSlurpee posted:

Software just gets continually more complex and demanding so old equipment will seem like it slows down, especially as you install more stuff. It's a fact of existence really.

The only reason this happens is because the hardware is able to keep up with the inefficiencies. As hardware improvement slows down, devs will be forced to focus on optimizations again ahead of features.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Eroom's law: software gets slower at the same rate hardware gets faster

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




Same but my body after turning 30.

BarbarianElephant
Feb 12, 2015
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Uh... and they never sent you a letter? That doesn't sound quite right to me.

They said they sent a letter. I never got a letter. Who knows. It doesn't sound right to me either, I still don't understand what happened several years later.

TLG James
Jun 5, 2000

Questing ain't easy


Jesus, I just spent like an hour on the phone with my bank. Somehow my debit card was cloned, and I guess they got the PIN because it was used a few states away at an ATM. My bank blocked all activity after the first 400 transaction went through. The weird thing is... It was a card that I literally haven't used in months. It was my backup card for traveling.

I guess they even called my bank to try to get them to up the limit. No idea if they succeeded or not, but they locked down my entire account.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




That happened to my mom like 2 weeks after she got a new card.

Could somebody hack/record a grocery store card reader?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





peanut posted:

That happened to my mom like 2 weeks after she got a new card.

Could somebody hack/record a grocery store card reader?

Yes. Point of sale systems have been compromised already.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Midjack posted:

Yes. Point of sale systems have been compromised already.

chip and pin is supposed to fix this but lmao stripe and signature is still a thing because merchant service providers are borderline scam artists themselves and they will not pay to replace machines until the law (or visa/mc) says they have to

source: i worked in the boiler room for a merchant service provider for a couple of dumb months

e: this info is 10y old but the most common reason for not going with our shitbag company was 'costco already does it better'
i imagine that for 99% of small businesses that already have a costco membership, this is correct

goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Sep 27, 2018

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.

Grimey Drawer

Midjack posted:

Yes. Point of sale systems have been compromised already.

At this point I just assume everything electronic is compromised until proven otherwise. That goes double for an American system.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Corsair Pool Boy posted:

Same, agreed. Mine will even let me play it if I need to without navigating an automated system.

This was the iPhoneís killer app from before it had an app store.

gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


goatsestretchgoals posted:

chip and pin is supposed to fix this but lmao stripe and signature is still a thing because merchant service providers are borderline scam artists themselves and they will not pay to replace machines until the law (or visa/mc) says they have to

source: i worked in the boiler room for a merchant service provider for a couple of dumb months

e: this info is 10y old but the most common reason for not going with our shitbag company was 'costco already does it better'
i imagine that for 99% of small businesses that already have a costco membership, this is correct

OTOH, U.S. cc users don't need to care; U.S. law limits their liability to $50 on cc purchases. Debit cards, however, are governed by a different, and less consumer friendly, law.

As a general matter, the older the payment system is, the more consumer friendly the law is. Checks > cc > debit cards > random phone apps.

EKDS5k
Feb 22, 2012

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET YOUR BEER FREEZE, DAMNIT


gaj70 posted:

OTOH, U.S. cc users don't need to care; U.S. law limits their liability to $50 on cc purchases. Debit cards, however, are governed by a different, and less consumer friendly, law.

As a general matter, the older the payment system is, the more consumer friendly the law is. Checks > cc > debit cards > random phone apps.

The scam is your government when they say they're looking out for you. Up here the liability on the consumer end due to fraud is $0 for cc, debit, online banking, cheques, you name it. I've had hundreds of dollars of fraudulent charges reversed with a single phone call to tell them that I wasn't the one who made them.

iajanus
Aug 17, 2004

#GOAT


EKDS5k posted:

The scam is your government when they say they're looking out for you. Up here the liability on the consumer end due to fraud is $0 for cc, debit, online banking, cheques, you name it. I've had hundreds of dollars of fraudulent charges reversed with a single phone call to tell them that I wasn't the one who made them.

Not for the first time, us in the rest of the world are laughing at the US.

gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


EKDS5k posted:

The scam is your government when they say they're looking out for you. Up here the liability on the consumer end due to fraud is $0 for cc, debit, online banking, cheques, you name it. I've had hundreds of dollars of fraudulent charges reversed with a single phone call to tell them that I wasn't the one who made them.

We're still better than Europe (where, iirc, the customers are liable on cc's if it's a chip/pin purchase).

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

gaj70 posted:

We're still better than Europe (where, iirc, the customers are liable on cc's if it's a chip/pin purchase).

Credit cards are rare anyway and 90% of people who have one (made up statistic) only use it for online purchases anyway.

But no, generally you would not be liable for fraudulent charges here either.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Namarrgon posted:

Credit cards are rare anyway and 90% of people who have one (made up statistic) only use it for online purchases anyway.


What?

Sarrisan
Oct 9, 2012


Fwi I use my cc for literally everything. My debit account is just there to receive my paycheck and pay off the cc each week.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

I got a call from my bank the other day questioning a potential charge. Someone was trying to use my debit card in another state at a gas station. It was a $1 hold. They blocked the transaction and canceled the card. I have to wonder if the gas station got ripped off or not?

TLG James
Jun 5, 2000

Questing ain't easy


Mister Kingdom posted:

I got a call from my bank the other day questioning a potential charge. Someone was trying to use my debit card in another state at a gas station. It was a $1 hold. They blocked the transaction and canceled the card. I have to wonder if the gas station got ripped off or not?

A lot of the time, it seems they try to do a small charge, then a big charge. So a gas station with a pump is an easy way to test a card.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



EKDS5k posted:

The scam is your government when they say they're looking out for you. Up here the liability on the consumer end due to fraud is $0 for cc, debit, online banking, cheques, you name it. I've had hundreds of dollars of fraudulent charges reversed with a single phone call to tell them that I wasn't the one who made them.

Canada is $50 max for credit cards, same as US.

FCAC stopped accepting the argument from banks that Chip+PIN transaction were inherently nonfradulent, but that took awhile, and you can still be liable if they argue that your PIN is crappy (i.e. 1234)

Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Sep 28, 2018

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!


In Europe. Netherlands to be specific.

Only 55% of consumers have a credit card. Of which 2/3 only uses it abroad. Of the remaining, the vast majority is used only for online purchases or hotel reservation deposits or those kind of things. Virtually nobody uses it for day to day stuff. The debit card rules supreme here.

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


Foxfire_ posted:

Canada is $50 max for credit cards, same as US.

FCAC stopped accepting the argument from banks that Chip+PIN transaction were inherently nonfradulent, but that took awhile, and you can still be liable if they argue that your PIN is crappy (i.e. 1234)

You should be liable if your pin is 1234.

ponzicar
Mar 17, 2008


Holyshoot posted:

You should be liable if your pin is 1234.

They shouldn't allow the PINs to be set to anything that meets their criteria of a bad PIN.

Guildencrantz
May 1, 2012

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.


Namarrgon posted:

In Europe. Netherlands to be specific.

Only 55% of consumers have a credit card. Of which 2/3 only uses it abroad. Of the remaining, the vast majority is used only for online purchases or hotel reservation deposits or those kind of things. Virtually nobody uses it for day to day stuff. The debit card rules supreme here.

This isn't a Europe thing, it's a Netherlands thing, and a couple of other countries. Most of the rest of us find it a bit unusual and inconvenient when we go there.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008


Mister Kingdom posted:

I got a call from my bank the other day questioning a potential charge. Someone was trying to use my debit card in another state at a gas station. It was a $1 hold. They blocked the transaction and canceled the card. I have to wonder if the gas station got ripped off or not?

When you do a fill up instead of a prepaid transaction at a gas station, they place a $1 hold on the card to make sure it is active. The transaction pends at $1, and then when it charges to the account it is for the full amount, similar to when you leave a tip at a restaurant. They can see if the card works and fill up at th time if the $1 transaction works.

EKDS5k
Feb 22, 2012

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET YOUR BEER FREEZE, DAMNIT


Foxfire_ posted:

Canada is $50 max for credit cards, same as US.

I looked it up and you're right, that's what the law says. However Visa, MasterCard, and Amex all have policies that state that the consumer isn't liable for anything in the event of fraudulent use (including in store with a stole/fake card), as long as you keep your PIN secret, and it isn't 1111 or whatever.

EKDS5k fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 28, 2018

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


ponzicar posted:

They shouldn't allow the PINs to be set to anything that meets their criteria of a bad PIN.

Going by my experience with trying to enforce password requirements. Someone would likely bitch at the major cc if they implemented this. People are stupid as hell and you can't fix stupid.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008


People also bitch when you tell them that you won't refund the fees on the transactions that happened after they gave their daughter/boyfriend/cousin/dealer their card and pin to go to the store with.

"I gave her permission to go buy groceries, not to drink $200 at a bar."

Well, you authorized her to use the card, so we don't give a drat.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

therobit posted:

When you do a fill up instead of a prepaid transaction at a gas station, they place a $1 hold on the card to make sure it is active. The transaction pends at $1, and then when it charges to the account it is for the full amount, similar to when you leave a tip at a restaurant. They can see if the card works and fill up at th time if the $1 transaction works.

Since my debit card was canceled, I had to use a credit card in the meantime. I get a call today stating someone tried to use it twice this week in the same state at gas stations (about $100 each). In fact, they were trying to use it while I was on the phone with the agent!

So that one has to be replaced. What the gently caress?

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Skimmer, probably

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Eric the Mauve posted:

Skimmer, probably

I hadn't used this card in a while with the last place being a McDonald's self-service kiosk this past Thursday. The first attempt was on the same Thursday.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Not trying to sound all crazy and paranoid, but Iím absolutely sure thereís tons of massive CC data breaches constantly and theyíre covered up.

I got a BofA Visa for the sole purpose of using to cover inadvertent overdrafts on my checking account, this card never was inserted into a machine, never used anywhere for anything except internally at BofA to cover an overdraft. I get a bill one month for a bunch of fraudulent poo poo on the other side of the country.

How could this happen except through a BofA security breach? Yet one was never announced. I got all the charges removed easily enough, but nobody ever explained how it could have happened.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





Itís also worth noting that not al breaches/exposures are discovered in the first place

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


JnnyThndrs posted:

Not trying to sound all crazy and paranoid, but Iím absolutely sure thereís tons of massive CC data breaches constantly and theyíre covered up.

I got a BofA Visa for the sole purpose of using to cover inadvertent overdrafts on my checking account, this card never was inserted into a machine, never used anywhere for anything except internally at BofA to cover an overdraft. I get a bill one month for a bunch of fraudulent poo poo on the other side of the country.

How could this happen except through a BofA security breach? Yet one was never announced. I got all the charges removed easily enough, but nobody ever explained how it could have happened.

You ever type the numbers online or on your computer? Could be a computer compromise if so.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Someone had to do it.

Guildencrantz posted:

This isn't a Europe thing, it's a Netherlands thing, and a couple of other countries. Most of the rest of us find it a bit unusual and inconvenient when we go there.

I don't think I've seen a credit card in the UK or France either. Admittly I don't really look at people's cards, but debit seems more common for locals here.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Holyshoot posted:

You ever type the numbers online or on your computer? Could be a computer compromise if so.

Nope. I mean, they sent me the card and it got put in a cabinet with my insurance papers and important crap and never moved from that spot until I cut it up. I didnít carry it with me or anything. And BofA never sends the whole card number on bills or anything either.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



I think I mentioned in this thread but similar with citi. Used it 4 places, then a few months later charges for Xbox appeared so canceled it. Replacement card arrives, we activate it and seal it away without ever using it. Xbox and Hulu charges appear a month later. Account closed.

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Quote-Unquote
Oct 21, 2002



ilmucche posted:

I don't think I've seen a credit card in the UK or France either. Admittly I don't really look at people's cards, but debit seems more common for locals here.

About 60% of adults in the UK have at least one credit card. US is about 75%.

Personally I use a credit card for absolutely everything, because I pay it off every month and get rewards for using it, plus I can cancel charges if I need to (only happened once).

I think people are daft using debit cards when you get free stuff for using a credit card.

It's not like twenty years ago where you had to manually keep track of your spending lest you get a massive bill you can't afford - every single bank and credit card provider has online portals/apps that let you check your balance at any time so it's really, really easy to make sure you're not spending more on the card than you have in your account (assuming you have access to the internet in some form, and even then every bank/card provider has a phone number you can call to check your balance)

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