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Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






gaj70 posted:

We're still better than Europe (where, iirc, the customers are liable on cc's if it's a chip/pin purchase).

Unless you were acting negligent (like keeping your card and pin code together) you are not liable.

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therobit
Aug 19, 2008


After the Equifax hack, enough information is out there to compromise almost anyone's accounts given time and determination. If they had two different partials from your credit report and a statement that together provided the whole number, that would be a start.

teh winnar!
Apr 16, 2003


Quote-Unquote posted:

About 60% of adults in the UK have at least one credit card. US is about 75%.

Personally I use a credit card for absolutely everything, because I pay it off every month and get rewards for using it, plus I can cancel charges if I need to (only happened once).

I think people are daft using debit cards when you get free stuff for using a credit card.

That's because you use a credit card for convenience. Unfortunately, a lot of people use a credit card for credit (to pay for things they can't afford), leading to spiraling debt. Different, but related, many banks use some predatory techniques with their cards (remember me talking about balance transfers earlier? If you buy something on the card you've used for BTs, your payments go for the BT first, leading to your purchases accruing at the higher rate until all the transfer is paid off) which lead to a credit card not being such a good deal. Finally, not all people can qualify for rewards cards or, if they do, may come with many more strings attached than they do for you (like annual fees or exorbitant rates if they go beyond the initial 20 days). For these reasons, or others I am admittedly not thinking of at the moment, folks that don't want to run those risks or who have been burned in the past use debit cards instead. It isn't daftness, but merely a different situation.

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


teh winnar! posted:

Different, but related, many banks use some predatory techniques with their cards (remember me talking about balance transfers earlier? If you buy something on the card you've used for BTs, your payments go for the BT first, leading to your purchases accruing at the higher rate until all the transfer is paid off) which lead to a credit card not being such a good deal.

I thought this practice in particular was made illegal a couple years back?

gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


Alhazred posted:

Unless you were acting negligent (like keeping your card and pin code together) you are not liable.

My impression is that euro banks used to presume that it was negligence. But maybe they're no longer doing that now that chip/pin has been broken...

Jyrraeth
Aug 1, 2008

I love this dino
SOOOO MUCH


I remember once that I found a generator of credit card numbers that had the correct format/checksum (for testing web forms), would one of those ever accidentally generate a legitimate number?

teh winnar!
Apr 16, 2003


baquerd posted:

I thought this practice in particular was made illegal a couple years back?

Back when I was working the phone lines for CARD COMPANY HERE, payments went towards the lowest, and that has changed since then. Now, we're both right to an extent. The CARD Act of 2009 makes it so that payments past the minimum have to go to the higher rate balance now, but the base payment can still be done at the creditor's discretion.

Translation: If you're paying more than the minimum, you'll be fine. However, if you're in a situation where you are using the card for credit, you won't be paying off all that higher rate balance with your monthly payments unless you're paying your new balance and then some.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Jyrraeth posted:

I remember once that I found a generator of credit card numbers that had the correct format/checksum (for testing web forms), would one of those ever accidentally generate a legitimate number?

Ah, good old cmaster4.exe

Ohyesitsme
Apr 12, 2018

by Nyc_Tattoo


ilmucche posted:

I don't think I've seen a credit card in the UK or France either. Admittly I don't really look at people's cards, but debit seems more common for locals here.

Probably depends on what generation you are. I'm 42 and can't think of anyone in my circle of friends who doesn't have a CC.
Older people are more "Not going into debt for anything, if I can't afford it I'll save up until I can".
I have 7 CCs, normally pay them off in full each month but will sometimes hold a balance for a couple of months (nothing huge) and just suck up paying the interest, each card in rotation - it keeps my credit score high because banks don't want to lend to people they won't make money from.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Jyrraeth posted:

I remember once that I found a generator of credit card numbers that had the correct format/checksum (for testing web forms), would one of those ever accidentally generate a legitimate number?

Nothing preventing it from doing so but expiration+CVV+billing postal code is effectively a password that isn't a function of the card number.

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011


Ohyesitsme posted:

I have 7 CCs, normally pay them off in full each month but will sometimes hold a balance for a couple of months (nothing huge) and just suck up paying the interest, each card in rotation - it keeps my credit score high because banks don't want to lend to people they won't make money from.

This is strictly false. You never need to carry a balance.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Isn't there a sweet spot it's good to be at for credit building, which you can be at on the date your card provider reports to the credit agencies (and they'll tell you this if you request it), which you can then pay off before the bill comes in.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





https://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/building-credit/should-you-carry-a-balance-on-a-credit-card/

quote:

If I were to guess, the confusion about carrying a balance probably started because someone misunderstood the difference between receiving a statement and carrying a balance.

Yes, you need to let your statement cycle so you show some utilization on your bill. Even something small like a $5 purchase, don’t pay it the second it appears on your online portal and let it appear on your statement. A statement doesn’t cycle until you receive a message from your credit card company that your statement is available and you owe XX amount or a XX minimum.

What you shouldn’t do is receive the statement and just pay the minimum due – thus carry a balance. While it doesn’t hurt your credit score to only pay the minimum due, it just ends up being more money you pay in interest to the bank. Why pay your lender for something you can be getting for free?!

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Ohyesitsme posted:

Probably depends on what generation you are. I'm 42 and can't think of anyone in my circle of friends who doesn't have a CC.
Older people are more "Not going into debt for anything, if I can't afford it I'll save up until I can".
I have 7 CCs, normally pay them off in full each month but will sometimes hold a balance for a couple of months (nothing huge) and just suck up paying the interest, each card in rotation - it keeps my credit score high because banks don't want to lend to people they won't make money from.

Noooooooooooo my fellow goon, free yourself!

gently caress any advice or implication that leads people to believe that.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008


Ohyesitsme posted:

Probably depends on what generation you are. I'm 42 and can't think of anyone in my circle of friends who doesn't have a CC.
Older people are more "Not going into debt for anything, if I can't afford it I'll save up until I can".
I have 7 CCs, normally pay them off in full each month but will sometimes hold a balance for a couple of months (nothing huge) and just suck up paying the interest, each card in rotation - it keeps my credit score high because banks don't want to lend to people they won't make money from.

When we underwrite unsecured credit, we aren't asking ourselves if you will carry a balance. We ask ourselves if we think you will pay us back what you borrow. We are actually more likely to lend if you do not carry significant balances.

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


I should probably use a credit and pay it off each month instead of debit but I don't trust myself to not go over. So I throw 90 onto a checking account each week and use that for my weekly spending. I also have credit debt I am paying down as well on some other cards and a consolidation of credit card debt with lower interest rate. I have a credit score near 800 fwiw but it really means jack because I have little to no extra income after bills and regular spendatures.

I think people who use credit cards and pay them off each week are probably making decent income and have a bit of extra money left over in their budget each month.

Raldikuk
Apr 7, 2006

I'm bad with money and I want that meatball!

EL BROMANCE posted:

I think I mentioned in this thread but similar with citi. Used it 4 places, then a few months later charges for Xbox appeared so canceled it. Replacement card arrives, we activate it and seal it away without ever using it. Xbox and Hulu charges appear a month later. Account closed.

If you set up a credit card for automatic payments sometimes the new # and expiration will port over automatically. For your convenience of course.

EL BROMANCE posted:

Isn't there a sweet spot it's good to be at for credit building, which you can be at on the date your card provider reports to the credit agencies (and they'll tell you this if you request it), which you can then pay off before the bill comes in.

A utilization greater than 0% but less than 10% is considered the sweet spot for building credit. Usage of a credit card will also help ensure it stays open and length of accounts is also a big factor (though closed accounts remain for 10 years after they're closed so it isn't an immediate hit). However, there's zero reason to "carry a balance" to have utilization reported (for the vast majority of cards at least). How most companies report it is thusly: Your payment date passes and after this your credit card company creates a new statement. When they do so, they report what the new statement balance is on your card. If you are actively using your card and within your grace period then you can pay your previous statement balance in full (thus avoiding finance charges) but any newly acquired transactions that are in the new grace period will be rolled up into your new statement balance that will be due ~30 days after. That statement balance is what is reported; but as long as you pay it in full by the payment date then you don't have to accrue any interest.

The only time you will need to pay your entire outstanding balance in full would be if you do not have a grace period (say you didn't pay in full last month) so you want to pay down the balance as fast as possible to avoid interest. If you're within the grace you can use your credit card to extract essentially net-30/45 terms.

It also should be noted that there is no historical utilization metric; once the credit bureaus get new info from your creditors, they update your utilizations and it immediately affects your score.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Raldikuk posted:

If you set up a credit card for automatic payments sometimes the new # and expiration will port over automatically. For your convenience of course.

So convenient to have to cancel another card, ha. There was never a Hulu charge before, which is the one that weirds me out.

Thanks for the info on credit building above too, I need to get on it here as I've had a SSN for nearly 2 years, a bank account for about the same, employed for 18 months, pay bills and... it's like I don't exist still. I've only been using NerdWallet (which says it can't draw any info) and not any of the bigger credit companies which might be a factor, but time to sort out secured loan or card and see if that'll help put me on the map. I fixed my credit back in my home country after years of it being in the poo poo due to 1 $20 mistake that I tried repeatedly to fix at the time, and got it really good. Kinda sucks it means nothing now!

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Why do people who buy "Get Rich by Doing 'X'" and who subscribe to those "7 secrets to wealth THEY don't want you to know about" lack any skepticism? If you had all these tricks and secrets, why the gently caress would you sell them for a pittance or share them all in a big seminar? How is it not obvious that the main secret to wealth by flipping houses is selling books and seminar tickets on flipping houses?

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

BiggerBoat posted:

Why do people who buy "Get Rich by Doing 'X'" and who subscribe to those "7 secrets to wealth THEY don't want you to know about" lack any skepticism? If you had all these tricks and secrets, why the gently caress would you sell them for a pittance or share them all in a big seminar? How is it not obvious that the main secret to wealth by flipping houses is selling books and seminar tickets on flipping houses?

Some people are gullible. Others are desperate. Some heard about how much money used to be made flipping houses and want in on that poo poo.

Chances are the people selling those books did, in fact, make money by doing whatever they're selling but that poo poo never lasts. Flipping houses used to be mad profitable, especially if you snagged houses at sheriff's auctions, estate sales, or whatever as you could get cheap houses, fix them up a bit, then sell them for more. It worked specifically because so few people were doing it. Though you're right; anybody making money doing anything probably isn't going to be spreading the secret around as the more people you have doing it the less profitable it ends up being. They're doing one last cash out but unfortunately all a lot of people see is "I watched this show where a dude got super rich doing *thing* so I want to get super rich doing *thing*!"

Quote-Unquote
Oct 21, 2002



teh winnar! posted:

That's because you use a credit card for convenience. Unfortunately, a lot of people use a credit card for credit (to pay for things they can't afford), leading to spiraling debt.

I know. I'd be the first person to advise not to use a credit card for actual credit unless you are really desperate. I'm talking about people that have cash, but use a debit card instead of a credit card. I can't figure out why you'd voluntarily give up the protection offered by a credit card.

In the UK at least, every high street bank offers credit cards to anyone that hasn't got completely ruined credit. The interest rates are terrible and you don't get any rewards, but you still get the protection of being able to cancel charges. To me this is an invaluable thing. If you can get a reward card that's even better, of course, but even a basic lovely credit card is better than a debit card.

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Quote-Unquote posted:

and get rewards for using it,

In fairness I don't think any of the easily gotten credit cards in the Netherlands have this, so for daily life there is no benefit to using them at all.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


The best reason to use plastic for everything is that cash is a resort hotel for communicable cold/flu/etc germs

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016



Eric the Mauve posted:

The best reason to use plastic for everything is that cash is a resort hotel for communicable cold/flu/etc germs

So is a credit scanner.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


BiggerBoat posted:

Why do people who buy "Get Rich by Doing 'X'" and who subscribe to those "7 secrets to wealth THEY don't want you to know about" lack any skepticism? If you had all these tricks and secrets, why the gently caress would you sell them for a pittance or share them all in a big seminar? How is it not obvious that the main secret to wealth by flipping houses is selling books and seminar tickets on flipping houses?

Because they all want to think they are smarter than everyone else.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003





Mustached Demon posted:

So is a credit scanner.

yeah but contactless...

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Mustached Demon posted:

So is a credit scanner.

True, but germophobes like myself can carry our own stylus pens and never have to directly touch them :buddy:

I actually read recently that at a modern fast food joint or gas station, you’re more likely to get sick from using the touchscreens to order food than from using the disgusting bathrooms. You can read anything, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if that were true.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


Eric the Mauve posted:

True, but germophobes like myself can carry our own stylus pens and never have to directly touch them :buddy:

I actually read recently that at a modern fast food joint or gas station, you’re more likely to get sick from using the touchscreens to order food than from using the disgusting bathrooms. You can read anything, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if that were true.

If you believe everything you read online or hear on the news lately, every single place you go is a festering petri dish of horrible diseases and you're one contact away from contracting a deadly flesh-eating virus.

Just wash your hands.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





MightyJoe36 posted:

If you believe everything you read online or hear on the news lately, every single place you go is a festering petri dish of horrible diseases and you're one contact away from contracting a deadly flesh-eating virus.

Just wash your hands.

That sounds like propaganda from Big Soap.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


Midjack posted:

That sounds like propaganda from Big Soap.

So use a locally sourced, free-range, organic soap instead.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016



The real scams washing your hands with hot/warm water.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




Quote-Unquote posted:

I know. I'd be the first person to advise not to use a credit card for actual credit unless you are really desperate. I'm talking about people that have cash, but use a debit card instead of a credit card. I can't figure out why you'd voluntarily give up the protection offered by a credit card.

In the UK at least, every high street bank offers credit cards to anyone that hasn't got completely ruined credit. The interest rates are terrible and you don't get any rewards, but you still get the protection of being able to cancel charges. To me this is an invaluable thing. If you can get a reward card that's even better, of course, but even a basic lovely credit card is better than a debit card.

My bank in England told me they wouldn't issue me a credit card when I asked for one. I had never overdrawn and they didn't even glance at a credit rating.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Quote-Unquote posted:

I know. I'd be the first person to advise not to use a credit card for actual credit unless you are really desperate. I'm talking about people that have cash, but use a debit card instead of a credit card. I can't figure out why you'd voluntarily give up the protection offered by a credit card.

In the US, it's difficult to get a non-secured credit card if you don't have a credit history. A secured card requires you to have a certain percentage of your credit limit available at all times. I finally got one about a year or so ago. I've looked at how this affects my finally existing credit score, and apparently one of the factors is your credit use, so if I had gotten one with twice the limit, but spent the same as I have, I would have had a higher credit score, even though I never went over the limit, and never carried a balance. :shrug:

therobit
Aug 19, 2008


Absurd Alhazred posted:

In the US, it's difficult to get a non-secured credit card if you don't have a credit history. A secured card requires you to have a certain percentage of your credit limit available at all times. I finally got one about a year or so ago. I've looked at how this affects my finally existing credit score, and apparently one of the factors is your credit use, so if I had gotten one with twice the limit, but spent the same as I have, I would have had a higher credit score, even though I never went over the limit, and never carried a balance. :shrug:

It really isn't that hard to get a card. Le and say tippy are a college student and they will basically throw plastic at you with no treatment of people credit history. Even without doing that there are still plenty of companies who are happy to give you a card with a higher rate. Your problem may be if you are trying to do business with an actual bank instead of credit card companies.

The other issue might be if you are not a US citizen or permanent resident. Many institutions will not lend without permanent status because it is more likely toy will decide to gently caress of to somewhere else without paying them.

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

This sounded interesting. Phone scammers are going semi-automatic.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/10/voice-phishing-scams-are-getting-more-clever/

Krebs posted:

The caller said her name was Jen Hansen, and began the call with what Curt described as “over-the-top courtesy.”

“It sounded like a very well-scripted Customer Service call, where they seem to be trying so hard to please that it seems disingenuous,” Curt recalled. “But honestly it still sounded very much like a real person, not like a text to speech voice which sounds robotic. This sounded VERY natural.”

Ms. Hansen proceeded to tell Curt that TD Bank was offering a credit monitoring service free for one month, and that he could cancel at any time. To enroll, he only needed to confirm his home mailing address.

“I’m mega paranoid and asked her to tell me what address I had on their file, knowing full well my home address can be found in a variety of ways,” Curt wrote in an email to this author. “She said, ‘One moment while I access that information.'”

After a short pause, a new voice came on the line.

“And here’s where I realized I was finally talking to a real human — a female with a slight French accent — who read me my correct address,” Curt recalled.
After another pause, Ms. Hansen’s voice came back on the line. While she was explaining that part of the package included free antivirus and anti-keylogging software, Curt asked her if he could opt-in to receive his credit reports while opting-out of installing the software.

“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?” the voice identifying itself as Ms. Hansen replied. Curt repeated himself. After another, “I’m sorry, can you repeat that,” Curt asked Ms. Hansen where she was from.

The voice confirmed what was indicated by the number displayed on his caller ID: That she was calling from Barrie, Ontario. Trying to throw the robot voice further off-script, Curt asked what the weather was like in Barrie, Ontario. Another Long pause. The voice continued describing the offered service.

“I asked again about the weather, and she said, ‘I’m sorry, I don’t have that information. Would you like me to transfer you to someone that does?’ I said yes and again the real person with a French accent started speaking, ignoring my question about the weather and saying that if I’d like to continue with the offer I needed to provide my date of birth. This is when I hung up and immediately called TD Bank.” No one from TD had called him, they assured him.

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


The best part of carrying plastic is so you can tell people who beg for money you don't carry cash and not feel bad.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

My mom is super into credit card churning and at any given time is juggling 5 different cards. She has excel spreadsheets to keep track of all this. It sounds like a lot of work, but the upside appears that she pays absolutely zero interest, membership fees etc and gets TONS of freebies; most of the vacations she goes on cost her almost nothing in terms of airfare and hotel accommodations. So it definitely seems worth it if you're willing to invest the time.

Trastion
Jul 24, 2003
The one and only.

I have been getting calls on my work phone almost every day that are either about how to get out of IRS Debt or trying to say I owe the IRS and need to pay up. They call with a different number each day because I control the PBX system and blacklist the number each time. It's getting annoying but there is not much I can do as I have to answer the phone as part of my job.

Ohyesitsme
Apr 12, 2018

by Nyc_Tattoo


drive me nuts to school posted:

This is strictly false. You never need to carry a balance.

The other concern is the amount of available credit you have - between my cards I have close to £250k in available credit, which I rarely use except as I described above.
Should I shut down a few of the cards, and just keep a couple of the bigger limit ones for emergencies? One Visa and one MasterCard, maybe?

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Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


Ohyesitsme posted:

The other concern is the amount of available credit you have - between my cards I have close to £250k in available credit, which I rarely use except as I described above.
Should I shut down a few of the cards, and just keep a couple of the bigger limit ones for emergencies? One Visa and one MasterCard, maybe?

Keep them open and when you're about to die max them out and live like a king and flip off the companies as you die.

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