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Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


So, the laminate floor i wanted to replace was apparently the subject of a class action lawsuit regarding formaldehyde content.

That's cool. And good.

"How quick did you say you can have installers out?"



Edit: v-----------------

Deviant fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Dec 12, 2020

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Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell


Does it really need to be replaced? It should be perfectly preserved

Bingo Bango
Jan 7, 2020

Hoagiefest is here again


OSU_Matthew posted:

6k to redo the kitchen? If you’re just refreshing stuff absolutely, but last time I looked at cabinets alone it was north of 10k for me, and that was just ikea

Dishwasher is very easy like everyone else said. When I moved in I had a portable rolling dishwasher that had to be rolled over and hooked up to the faucet for water. That thing was awful so I knocked out some cabinets and installed a sears ding and dent dishwasher that has been absolutely fantastic at a dirt cheap price.

If I could make a general recommendation, Popular Mechanics DIY home guide book is absolutely fantastic for explaining how everything works and how to fix or install stuff. That particular version is out of print and can be bought stupid cheap on thriftbooks or Abe books. I bought a buddy the new version of the black and Decker home guide as a housewarming present, and it’s absolutely awful. Instead of being organized nicely into sections like plumbing, electrical, it’s organized alphabetically to “mirror how people search for stuff online” and it’s garbage to flip through.

Thanks for the book recommendation! Maybe I need to adjust my budget expectations, lol. It's a 10'x11.5' kitchen so $6k seemed like a pretty high estimate at the time for the lower cabinets alone, which was all we were hoping we'd need to really address for the initial round of work. The idea was to fix the stuff that needed immediate attention, then work on it in stages as we went along.

Although after yesterday's report from my family, it looks like my original question itt was moot and this plan out the window because we're probably going to just redo the whole thing. Since someone asked for pictures:


The lower cabinets appear to have some water damage and/or rot (my mother reporting from the scene was unclear on this point) and being cheap 1970's plywood I don't think are worth trying to save. Dishwasher apparently isn't worth


About 1/2 of the kitchen, seen here with the range pushed out of the way to open the dishwasher. As it turns out, the range is also a lost cause because it's got some leaky lines and a pilot light that refuses to work. Also apparently pretty nasty inside. If you use your imagination, you can sort of see how the comically large microwave hood would have left maybe 12" of space over the stove for cooking. The current working theory is the previous owners cooked solely out of the microwave.


Provided my wife doesn't decide to go with a look that clashes with everything else, I'm thinking I'll keep what upper cabinets I can and paint or refinish if necessary. Worst case scenario, they'll get a new home in the basement.

I'm bummed that it's going to be a bigger upfront cost, but kind of relieved that we're just going to get it done at the get go before we move in.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL





Oh yeah that kitchen is loving awful, much better to redo it now then after you're all settled in.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


OSU_Matthew posted:

If I could make a general recommendation, Popular Mechanics DIY home guide book is absolutely fantastic for explaining how everything works and how to fix or install stuff.

Got one on ebay for $12, hopefully it comes in handy.

falz
Jan 29, 2005

01100110 01100001 01101100 01111010


Bingo Bango posted:

Thanks for the book recommendation! Maybe I need to adjust my budget expectations, lol. It's a 10'x11.5' kitchen so $6k seemed like a pretty high estimate at the time for the lower cabinets alone, which was all we were hoping we'd need to really address for the initial round of work. The idea was to fix the stuff that needed immediate attention, then work on it in stages as we went along.

Although after yesterday's report from my family, it looks like my original question itt was moot and this plan out the window because we're probably going to just redo the whole thing. Since someone asked for pictures:


The lower cabinets appear to have some water damage and/or rot (my mother reporting from the scene was unclear on this point) and being cheap 1970's plywood I don't think are worth trying to save. Dishwasher apparently isn't worth


About 1/2 of the kitchen, seen here with the range pushed out of the way to open the dishwasher. As it turns out, the range is also a lost cause because it's got some leaky lines and a pilot light that refuses to work. Also apparently pretty nasty inside. If you use your imagination, you can sort of see how the comically large microwave hood would have left maybe 12" of space over the stove for cooking. The current working theory is the previous owners cooked solely out of the microwave.


Provided my wife doesn't decide to go with a look that clashes with everything else, I'm thinking I'll keep what upper cabinets I can and paint or refinish if necessary. Worst case scenario, they'll get a new home in the basement.

I'm bummed that it's going to be a bigger upfront cost, but kind of relieved that we're just going to get it done at the get go before we move in.

The microwave definitely hangs down too low, that upper cabinet wasn't made for a microwave, just a range hood.

Anyway you could definitely get cabinets and counter for that, depends on how many you want.

I'd check if you have a Habitat for Humanity ReStore in your area, they always have so many useful things for all renovation projects. As well as appliances, but also kitchen cabinets. I go almost every week as it's always different.

Bingo Bango
Jan 7, 2020

Hoagiefest is here again


falz posted:

The microwave definitely hangs down too low, that upper cabinet wasn't made for a microwave, just a range hood.

Anyway you could definitely get cabinets and counter for that, depends on how many you want.

I'd check if you have a Habitat for Humanity ReStore in your area, they always have so many useful things for all renovation projects. As well as appliances, but also kitchen cabinets. I go almost every week as it's always different.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm hoping to do! My step-dad actually went today to see if they had any ranges to replace the one that's poo poo the bed. No luck, but we'll keep trying

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Bingo Bango posted:

Yep, that's exactly what I'm hoping to do! My step-dad actually went today to see if they had any ranges to replace the one that's poo poo the bed. No luck, but we'll keep trying

Dunno how you restore turnover works but the one near me is a thing I'll go to like twice a week when I'm really looking for something. And try to get to know the people who work in the back at intake.......

Network42
Oct 23, 2002


I know the answer to this question is very dependant on lots of variables, but I'm just looking for ballparks here.

We are looking to redo our upstairs bathroom. It's larger, about 6x12, with probably a quarter of it's usable space taken up by a giant corner jacuzzi soaker tub that looks terrible and isn't useful in our day to day lives. We would like to replace it with either a normal shower/bath combo, or just walk in shower type thing. Due to how dumb the tub is it's basically a requirement that the drain be moved.

We have about 15k we would be willing to spend on this project, but we have spoken to a couple of the local one stop kitchen and bath places and they've basically said its not gonna happen in our budget.

Is more a matter of me need to just deal directly with a contractor and cut out the middlemen, or is this something we just need to wait until we have a bigger budget?

OSU_Matthew
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME




Toilet Rascal

Network42 posted:


We have about 15k we would be willing to spend on this project, but we have spoken to a couple of the local one stop kitchen and bath places and they've basically said its not gonna happen in our budget.

Sample size of one, but the previous owners of our place spent 9k just to replace the shower/tub with basic acrylic in 2011 according to the paperwork they left behind. For as basic at it was, I was surprised it was that expensive. I just spent 300$ for new glass doors Iím going to install, to get rid of the curtain which sucks with the atomizer showerhead I recently put in.

Bingo Bango posted:

Thanks for the book recommendation! Maybe I need to adjust my budget expectations, lol. It's a 10'x11.5' kitchen so $6k seemed like a pretty high estimate at the time for the lower cabinets alone, which was all we were hoping we'd need to really address for the initial round of work. The idea was to fix the stuff that needed immediate attention, then work on it in stages as we went along.


Honestly, your upper cabinets look great. Buy some new handles, replace and fix and bad latches, paint if you want, and keep them for now. Those things and a new coat of paint in the kitchen will spruce things up considerably, especially with some backsplash. Itís also not a bad idea to live with your kitchen for a bit and see what exactly it is you want in a remodel before getting too spendy, though I think youíre on the right track with your plans, especially the dishwasher placement swap and oven replacement. Get some new appliances, but keep in mind that thereís still a waiting list for a lot of stuff. Buying some new base cabinets and putting those in wouldnít be too difficult either, and might just be easier to rip out everything on the bottom and install new.

Tezer
Jul 9, 2001



Network42 posted:

I know the answer to this question is very dependant on lots of variables, but I'm just looking for ballparks here.

We are looking to redo our upstairs bathroom. It's larger, about 6x12, with probably a quarter of it's usable space taken up by a giant corner jacuzzi soaker tub that looks terrible and isn't useful in our day to day lives. We would like to replace it with either a normal shower/bath combo, or just walk in shower type thing. Due to how dumb the tub is it's basically a requirement that the drain be moved.

We have about 15k we would be willing to spend on this project, but we have spoken to a couple of the local one stop kitchen and bath places and they've basically said its not gonna happen in our budget.

Is more a matter of me need to just deal directly with a contractor and cut out the middlemen, or is this something we just need to wait until we have a bigger budget?



Just guessing here - removing the existing tub will require impact to the tub, shower trim/rough valve, drain location, wall tile, floor tile, drywall (because the new layout probably isn't the same as the old layout), and then you'll end up painting the room because feathering in the drywall repair paint won't look quite right. That's a minimum - going to a shower might require even more drain modification depending on local codes (showers typically require larger drain than tubs), and then maybe now you need a tile shower floor, and lets put in a glass shower surround while we're here. Well, and now the new shower doesn't have good light, so lets install a new fixture inside the enclosure.

With all this impact, there are just too many subcontractors who have to make too many trips to do this in $15k. The cheapest tub swap I've done was $10k and that was for an existing client who required no design, let us approve all the selections (ie - no drawings or design meetings, and we got to select stuff within their budget), and we were replacing a tub with a new tub that was exactly the same size with the same 4x4 tile surround, in a niche so there was zero impact outside of the footprint of the bathtub. We didn't even change the shower curtain rod.

Post a picture and you might get some advice on how to limit scope, but it's not easy to do unless the project is very, very simple. Right now, with contractor's all pretty busy, if you don't have an existing relationship getting a deal will be unlikely, no matter if you go directly to a general contractor or work through a bathroom design shop.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!

Tezer posted:

With all this impact, there are just too many subcontractors who have to make too many trips to do this in $15k. The cheapest tub swap I've done was $10k and that was for an existing client who required no design, let us approve all the selections (ie - no drawings or design meetings, and we got to select stuff within their budget), and we were replacing a tub with a new tub that was exactly the same size with the same 4x4 tile surround, in a niche so there was zero impact outside of the footprint of the bathtub. We didn't even change the shower curtain rod.
Not trolling at all here, but could you explain how that adds up to $10k? I get that it is expensive to get a bunch of subs in the door, but just thinking about what is involved this seems like <$2k in materials and a few days of labor. I ask because I am planning a larger remodel (~650sqft of master bedroom + absurdly oversized bathroom). I am not delusional about what it is going to cost to get a reputable GC to do the project, but if the reason it's so expensive is more about inefficiencies in how the construction industry works than fair costs for materials and skilled labor I am all the more willing to think about taking my time and doing it my self.

mcgreenvegtables fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 13, 2020

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Alarbus posted:

Because Vermont.

No, it's because the big corporations have friends in government and nobody is ever gonna tax the people with money and influence. It's definitely not a Vermont thing, it's been a strong feature in most countries as the tax burden has been moved downards. Even in Finland this holds true.

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


I definitely remember seeing it discussed but not sure if its this thread or interior decorating or woodworking.

Now that we have a break from teaching for a month or so my wife and I want to do some interior painting. I've got some roller materials etc for stuff we used for our deck staining / painting a chicken coop, but we need a lot of supplies. Home Depot is the biggest place around us that we can shop at safely right now (due to pickup orders).

Couple questions on that, what is the best recommended paint brand from them that they reliably stock (I was assuming one of the premium Behr ones)? And was there a good written or video guide that people recommend to go over prep work and painting etc. We're not doing anything huge and not painting trim or ceilings.

OSU_Matthew
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME




Toilet Rascal

That Works posted:

I definitely remember seeing it discussed but not sure if its this thread or interior decorating or woodworking.

Now that we have a break from teaching for a month or so my wife and I want to do some interior painting. I've got some roller materials etc for stuff we used for our deck staining / painting a chicken coop, but we need a lot of supplies. Home Depot is the biggest place around us that we can shop at safely right now (due to pickup orders).

Couple questions on that, what is the best recommended paint brand from them that they reliably stock (I was assuming one of the premium Behr ones)? And was there a good written or video guide that people recommend to go over prep work and painting etc. We're not doing anything huge and not painting trim or ceilings.
Iíve used Behr a few times and liked working with it. No complaints here.

Not really necessary for interior unless itís a greasy kitchen surface or something really bad, but for exterior it really helps to scrape and pressure wash the surface. I use a blend of 1/2 cup TSP, 1/2 cup dirtex, 1 cup household bleach per gallon, which works miracles when cleaning exterior surfaces, especially in tackling organic growth on vinyl. Trisodium Phosphate is a traditional degreaser type cleaner for painting, itís really good stuff.

The hard part but the most important part is prep work. Primering also pays dividends and helps you use less paint and for it to stick better and last longer. Be sure to wash brushes thoroughly, and since acrylic paint is pretty universal water works great for that. Blue painters tape helps you get sharp edges. Drop clothes are a good investment, and a good candidate to buy from harbor freight

Ask this old house has some good painting advice videos as well.

Spring Heeled Jack
Feb 25, 2007


I used to only use SW but switched to Behr for the lower price. I suggest the tier right below Marquee, whatever itís called (ultra premium?).

Iíve used Behr for just about every room in the house at this point and have no complaints.

Sirotan
Oct 17, 2006

Sirotan is a seal.




The best painting tip I've learned in the last year: paint your trim first and don't bother masking off, overpainting a bit is actually good. Then when you're really for the walls, mask off your trim, then paint over that masked edge where it meets the walls just slightly with the trim color. This will help prevent bleed under of your wall color and give you a nice crisp edge once you pull off the tape. Especially useful if your walls have any kind of texture to them.

TacoHavoc
Dec 31, 2007
It's taco-y and havoc-y...at the same time!

mcgreenvegtables posted:

Not trolling at all here, but could you explain how that adds up to $10k? I get that it is expensive to get a bunch of subs in the door, but just thinking about what is involved this seems like <$2k in materials and a few days of labor. I ask because I am planning a larger remodel (~650sqft of master bedroom + absurdly oversized bathroom). I am not delusional about what it is going to cost to get a reputable GC to do the project, but if the reason it's so expensive is more about inefficiencies in how the construction industry works than fair costs for materials and skilled labor I am all the more willing to think about taking my time and doing it my self.

What do you think a few days labor costs? Multiplied by multiple contractors with minimum job rates?

Network42
Oct 23, 2002


This is the tub in question:



The terrible MSPaint arrow indicates where the drain is located. I'm not picky on what ends up there as long as we can shower, I don't need a fancy glass enclosure, I'm fine with a shower curtain or whatever. I just want to shower without walking downstairs. If 15k isn't enough to get it done I guess I can start looking at partial DIY.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

You walk in with the Turnips, you leave with the Bells.



At the very least you can do the demolition yourself and possibly save a bit of money that way. Demo being the "remove things in opposite order that they were installed" kind and not the HGTV "sledgehammer clown time!" kind.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

mutata posted:

At the very least you can do the demolition yourself and possibly save a bit of money that way. Demo being the "remove things in opposite order that they were installed" kind and not the HGTV "sledgehammer clown time!" kind.

Unfortunately that's not terribly helpful. Labor for demo isn't much - it's the least skilled job possible and you have a fixed cost of the dumpster/disposal regardless of who does it.

Tezer
Jul 9, 2001



Network42 posted:

This is the tub in question:



The terrible MSPaint arrow indicates where the drain is located. I'm not picky on what ends up there as long as we can shower, I don't need a fancy glass enclosure, I'm fine with a shower curtain or whatever. I just want to shower without walking downstairs. If 15k isn't enough to get it done I guess I can start looking at partial DIY.

What you're looking for is basically 100% new work. Since nothing can be saved or re-used including the rough plumbing, it's not going to be inexpensive. There are added complications like the floor tile - do you have extra kicking around? If not, you either need to patch it in with a tile that won't match, or redo the entire floor.

If you want to go DIY or partial-DIY, the first step is to figure out exactly what you are doing. Draw a sketch of what you want, pick all the materials out (tile, plumbing fixtures, etc.), write down a step by step description of what work needs to be done (this will involve a lot of research if you haven't done it before - you should know exactly what tools are needed for each step), and then decide what part of that work list you want to perform, and what parts you are going to subcontract.

If you partial DIY it, remember that everything is always going to be your fault. You are the general contractor in this scenario. If the plumber shows up and something isn't ready or doesn't quite fit, it's your fault. If the drywaller shows up and the rough plumbing hasn't been inspected yet, it's your fault. You are in charge, you are organizing the work, so you want to be very clear the order of operations involved.

If you need help with this, take a shot at figuring it out and then post it here.


mcgreenvegtables posted:

Not trolling at all here, but could you explain how that adds up to $10k? I get that it is expensive to get a bunch of subs in the door, but just thinking about what is involved this seems like <$2k in materials and a few days of labor. I ask because I am planning a larger remodel (~650sqft of master bedroom + absurdly oversized bathroom). I am not delusional about what it is going to cost to get a reputable GC to do the project, but if the reason it's so expensive is more about inefficiencies in how the construction industry works than fair costs for materials and skilled labor I am all the more willing to think about taking my time and doing it my self.

I'm not clear what you mean by "inefficiencies in how the construction industry works" or "fair costs for materials and skilled labor." If you mean, people living in single family homes results in a lot of travel time for subcontractors, then yes, that is an inefficiency. I'm guessing that's not what you mean, and there seem to be significant assumptions baked into your mindset that will make it difficult to explain to your comfort why residential construction work with good outcomes costs what it does.

Usually when someone starts talking about "fair costs" it is a thinly veiled statement indicating that the speaker believes pricing is too high, and often is polite code for "I think this industry is generally a rip off." When we get a prospective client who leads off with "What is a fair cost for a bathroom remodel?" I know they will almost never become a client (I can only think of one who has) because they are too focused on cost and not the outcome and process. If they say "I have $40k for this bathroom remodel, what can i do in that price range?" or "what does the average bathroom remodel cost?" they often become clients - it's the use of the word "fair" which is always a red flag. If that's not how you meant it, please expand on your thoughts.

If you want to learn how to set tile and install plumbing (and are willing to buy the associated tools), then I think that is a good way for you to proceed. People who hire out this kind of work have a different approach to how they allocate their time.

On that $10k tub replacement the breakdown was roughly: 20% plumbing including fixtures, 35% tile setting and materials, 25% drywall repairs and painting, 20% demolition/disposal/management/site protection/overhead. For a master suite including full bathroom renovation, historically those have cost $65-85k in my experience, with nothing below $65k and several above $85k. I work for a full-service design build firm where we have a project manager onsite full-time for all projects over around $100k and about half-time for stuff below that. The stated cost range is for construction only, design services are additional and average around 10% of final construction costs.

falz
Jan 29, 2005

01100110 01100001 01101100 01111010


Network42 posted:

This is the tub in question:



The terrible MSPaint arrow indicates where the drain is located. I'm not picky on what ends up there as long as we can shower, I don't need a fancy glass enclosure, I'm fine with a shower curtain or whatever. I just want to shower without walking downstairs. If 15k isn't enough to get it done I guess I can start looking at partial DIY.

Is that an electric baseboard? Do you live in a warm environment?

Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell


Network42 posted:

This is the tub in question:

I just want to shower without walking downstairs.

Can you stand comfortably in the tub? What about putting up shower curtains on all sides and getting a wand attachment for the faucet? Not real pretty but a hell of alot cheaper than remodeling the whole bathroom.

Hed
Mar 31, 2004



Fun Shoe

Boy I can't wait to get the PO stink out of the basement... just like the outside there are at least 3 different screw heads used on the same types of projects... I just pulled out a vanity that featured square 1, square 2 and T15 screws all into various different parts.

I mean I don't care for Phillips either but jfc pick a family!

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006



Grimey Drawer

I have an ongoing house saga that I believe is at least mildly interesting, and it's helpful for me to type out where I'm.

Viewed and inspected in March, moved in in April. We knew there had been a roof issue, and there was a very large roof job done in 2015. Inspector said house looks great, including "no hot spots on the roof" despite a photo in his report having a visible hotspot in the main problem area. Soon after moving in I found signs the issue was not resolved. Had two large roofing companies out to look, and had one come back and do some fixing. Had every friend of ours with any kind of construction experience out to look. No one seems as concerned as me, so I think maybe I'm overly worked up. I adjusted the gutter so water didn't pool at the end, and did a little more roof patching including a hole at the edge that would squirt water when you push on the roof above it. Trying to be optimistic, maybe it's just little stuff like that, and we're just mopping up the stragglers that got missed.

Since it's gotten below freezing again, it's clear the issue is very much not resolved. The ceiling started dripping in the area one of the roof guys said "well, hopefully it just doesn't do it again." I took off the soffit vent covers again, and can see large amounts of water and/or frost (depending on the temperature) in the problem area. There is a large icicle that forms, and I'm 99% sure all the water it contains come from below the roof. My current assessment is that it is interior air getting into that space.

I brought in a energy assessor, hoping he'll help me trace the air path, or otherwise diagnose. I went with one recommended by a friend "he was a able to see where I needed insulation, like x ray vision style." Sounds perfect. On the phone the guy acts like he has an idea what might be going on. Sure buddy, just bring your fancy gear and look at my problem area. He spends a lot of time on energy audit stuff, which is fine, but I'd like to make sure the rafters don't rot again before thinking about increasing R value or whatever. He starts up the blower door, and I go check the area. i think maybe I can feel a draft and see some air moving, so we might be getting somewhere. He's like "we'll be able to see with the thermal imager" ya thanks that's what you're here for. But then he starts moving on, I'm like how about that camera "it's out of batteries, sorry." So I let him finish his energy audit business, then ask again if the camera would help "na, we can already see the problem." You loving monkey. We get to paying time, and he doesn't say anything. I pay. Later I call and he says he'll come back with the camera. He sends the report, zero discussion of the problem area. I send a wtf email. He replies oh ya, coming back. He comes back, and brings his contractor buddy. I'm somewhat impressed that he's still trying to score the job, after doing such half assed work during assessing. Whatever, another guy's input could help. We look around with the camera, maybe see a little but nothing conclusive. His buddy is like "so time to set up the blower door?" and he's like na. What... Maybe I should have pressed him to do so, but at this point I'm just like stop wasting my time you dingus.

So currently I'm debating whether to bring in someone else to try and diagnose, or taking down trim and maybe we can see more what's going on. Or tearing the house down and building a new house.

I guess this is where I originally posted about this https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3131399&pagenumber=721&perpage=40#post504174733

Epitope fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 13, 2020

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


That Works posted:

I definitely remember seeing it discussed but not sure if its this thread or interior decorating or woodworking.

Now that we have a break from teaching for a month or so my wife and I want to do some interior painting. I've got some roller materials etc for stuff we used for our deck staining / painting a chicken coop, but we need a lot of supplies. Home Depot is the biggest place around us that we can shop at safely right now (due to pickup orders).

Couple questions on that, what is the best recommended paint brand from them that they reliably stock (I was assuming one of the premium Behr ones)? And was there a good written or video guide that people recommend to go over prep work and painting etc. We're not doing anything huge and not painting trim or ceilings.

Do not buy paint from Home Depot. All of their paint is garbage. Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams are far better brands than anything they carry.

I helped a friend paint half a room in Behr, cream to a burgundy, and it took longer than a room with loving 18 foot walls in my place with BM because we had to go over it with three coats.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Dec 13, 2020

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Epitope posted:

there was a very large roof job done in 2015

What exactly does this mean? Because it sounds like you need a new roof - a competently done job with appropriate sheaving replaced, ice shield installed, flashing fixed/replaced/augmented, etc.

And then some other things too maybe? I'm not quite sure from your post.

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Motronic posted:

What exactly does this mean? Because it sounds like you need a new roof - a competently done job with appropriate sheaving replaced, ice shield installed, flashing fixed/replaced/augmented, etc.

And then some other things too maybe? I'm not quite sure from your post.

I should make a thread. I may have time/energy tonight.

Ghostnuke
Sep 21, 2005

Throw this in a pot, add some broth, a potato? Baby you got a stew going!




BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:

Do not buy paint from Home Depot. All of their paint is garbage. Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams are far better brands than anything they carry.

I helped a friend paint half a room in Behr, cream to a burgundy, and it took longer than a room with loving 18 foot walls in my place with BM because we had to go over it with three coats.

All of my behr paint has been great, just as a counter point.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Ghostnuke posted:

All of my behr paint has been great, just as a counter point.

I'll thread the middle......the Behr I've bought has been adequate. It doesn't compare to the good Benjamin Moore I get from the actual BM place. But I'm not buying the homeowner BM paint, I'm buying the pro stuff which is definitely less forgiving on technique but it works great if you use it right. It is not all that hard to figure pout how to paint with it and it's the same things that will help you with the consumer paints. 50% is prep, 20% is not using garbage brushes/rollers, the rest you can figure out in a rooms or less after some youtube university.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!

Tezer posted:

I'm not clear what you mean by "inefficiencies in how the construction industry works" or "fair costs for materials and skilled labor." If you mean, people living in single family homes results in a lot of travel time for subcontractors, then yes, that is an inefficiency. I'm guessing that's not what you mean, and there seem to be significant assumptions baked into your mindset that will make it difficult to explain to your comfort why residential construction work with good outcomes costs what it does.

Usually when someone starts talking about "fair costs" it is a thinly veiled statement indicating that the speaker believes pricing is too high, and often is polite code for "I think this industry is generally a rip off." When we get a prospective client who leads off with "What is a fair cost for a bathroom remodel?" I know they will almost never become a client (I can only think of one who has) because they are too focused on cost and not the outcome and process. If they say "I have $40k for this bathroom remodel, what can i do in that price range?" or "what does the average bathroom remodel cost?" they often become clients - it's the use of the word "fair" which is always a red flag. If that's not how you meant it, please expand on your thoughts.

If you want to learn how to set tile and install plumbing (and are willing to buy the associated tools), then I think that is a good way for you to proceed. People who hire out this kind of work have a different approach to how they allocate their time.

On that $10k tub replacement the breakdown was roughly: 20% plumbing including fixtures, 35% tile setting and materials, 25% drywall repairs and painting, 20% demolition/disposal/management/site protection/overhead. For a master suite including full bathroom renovation, historically those have cost $65-85k in my experience, with nothing below $65k and several above $85k. I work for a full-service design build firm where we have a project manager onsite full-time for all projects over around $100k and about half-time for stuff below that. The stated cost range is for construction only, design services are additional and average around 10% of final construction costs.

This is helpful, thanks. I am not trying to say I think the industry is a ripoff. I actually meant fair in the opposite way you thought, I wanted to make sure the people doing the work were getting paid fairly for their skillset and that I am not expecting a bathroom can be redone by a random kid making $20/hr.

I am just trying to understand why costs are what they are, especially on smaller projects. When you get into a larger project like the one I described, I get that project management, all the systems that inevitably tie in, and the trades that need to be there are going to add up. But I am struggling to see how this system makes sense for the other poster here just trying to replace his bathtub. It seems like a project more suited for a skilled handyman than a fully subcontracted job with the associated overhead. I am still making up this $2k material number, but if that is right I don't see how a handyman-type wouldn't be able to bang this out in a week and be very happy with $5k for their time.

For my project, there is probably no realistic way I am going to be able to do it myself and keep both my job and marriage. The more I understand how this system works the easier it's going to be for me to swallow the 100k+ this will cost and the 4-6 months it will take. Any thoughts on how to select a good design-build firm or GC and productively work with them would be helpful. It's not lost on me that managing to piss you off even with innocent intentions does not bode well for me getting someone good to take my project and being able to maintain a good relationship with them throughout it.

mcgreenvegtables fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Dec 14, 2020

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.


MetaJew posted:

I found this, but $120 is way more than I want to spend, but the idea is neat, and probably could be accomplished with some basic drawer slides and plywood. The plexiglass would be more of a pain without a CNC or laser cutter, though. I would also need more than one of these, I think.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F4N0SIC/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_4368549507


Hey so waaaaay back on spice shelf chat, if anyone is interested in this it's MUCH cheaper on the manufacturer's website:

https://www.verticalspice.com

$90 + shipping ($12 for ground to me). And they have a TON of other size options, and you can pay more to get Maple wood for the base. Trying to talk the wife in to it, we have tons of spices and our current system is no good.

Right now we have an older version of this thing:

https://www.amazon.com/Spicy-Shelf-Deluxe-As-Seen/dp/B077VTX4KZ



Which is kind of a POS. Works OK in theory, but the shelves sag ever so slightly, which means it ends up sloped downwards, so things fall off easily. The one linked looks to try to mitigate that with a non-slip surface so maybe it's worth a try. Cheap, though, so hard to go wrong if you just need something.

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005



mcgreenvegtables posted:

It seems like a project more suited for a skilled handyman than a fully subcontracted job with the associated overhead. I am still making up this $2k material number, but if that is right I don't see how a handyman-type wouldn't be able to bang this out in a week and be very happy with $5k for their time.

One of the big problems is finding a 'skilled handyman'. Anyone with serious skills is either: already a GC, works in the trades, or booked years in advance. The 'handymen' left are usually drugged out losers that will do a poo poo job, steal your money, or both.

Remember that entire generation that was told 'college is the only way to make real money'? Those that didn't listen are laughing all the way to the bank.

Tezer
Jul 9, 2001



mcgreenvegtables posted:

This is helpful, thanks. I am not trying to say I think the industry is a ripoff. I actually meant fair in the opposite way you thought, I wanted to make sure the people doing the work were getting paid fairly for their skillset and that I am not expecting a bathroom can be redone by a random kid making $20/hr.

I am just trying to understand why costs are what they are, especially on smaller projects. When you get into a larger project like the one I described, I get that project management, all the systems that inevitably tie in, and the trades that need to be there are going to add up. But I am struggling to see how this system makes sense for the other poster here just trying to replace his bathtub. It seems like a project more suited for a skilled handyman than a fully subcontracted job with the associated overhead. I am still making up this $2k material number, but if that is right I don't see how a handyman-type wouldn't be able to bang this out in a week and be very happy with $5k for their time.

For my project, there is probably no realistic way I am going to be able to do it myself and keep both my job and marriage. The more I understand how this system works the easier it's going to be for me to swallow the 100k+ this will cost and the 4-6 months it will take. Any thoughts on how to select a good design-build firm or GC and productively work with them would be helpful. It's not lost on me that managing to piss you off even with innocent intentions does not bode well for me getting someone good to take my project and being able to maintain a good relationship with them throughout it.

Ah, one of the few times someone uses "fair" in a way I agree with. Also, you didn't piss me off - I have a pretty flat communication style which can be mistaken for being negative. There is a reason why I don't manage front-end sales activities (I handle pre-construction work primarily, which is all project managers/subcontractors/designers).

You're right, if the poster wants their tub replaced with a shower and just needs it done now, at the lowest (fair) cost, a solo builder or handyman is going to get it done for the least amount of money. The tricky bit will be finding one who can do all of the trades involved to an acceptable standard. There are a lot of skills involved in this project (sensitive demolition, plumbing, rough carpentry, drywall, painting, tile - at a minimum) and finding a handyman who does them all well is difficult. There is only one person I've met in my metro area who I would put on a project like that, and he's a weird polymath who runs a "construction company" who you later learn is just him. So you'd never find him searching for a handyman.

Also, if I was hiring a one-stop handyman for the shower replacement, I would specify a shower/bath surround with no tile. It's going to be much more approachable for a handyman, and avoids some serious problems down the road that can result if the tile isn't done properly. The handyman can probably recommend something, but a place to start is the Sterling brand which is owned by Kohler.

If you have PMs, let me know generally where you live and I can see if I have any recommendations regarding contractors in your area, or at the very least I can give you some guidance on how to start filtering. I'm also happy to review some pictures and notes if you want an idea of what parts of your project might lend themselves to DIY. A key piece of advice is that you and your contractor need to be collaborators on the project. Being clear about your budget and what parts of the project you value or don't value (for example: you may need a shower, but don't care how fancy it is. You might need a vanity with tons of storage, but don't care about having two sinks) will help your contractor save you money. You'll save more money asking your contractor where the scope can be tweaked to that end, rather than trying to hardball any negotiation.

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


DaveSauce posted:

Hey so waaaaay back on spice shelf chat, if anyone is interested in this it's MUCH cheaper on the manufacturer's website:

https://www.verticalspice.com

$90 + shipping ($12 for ground to me). And they have a TON of other size options, and you can pay more to get Maple wood for the base. Trying to talk the wife in to it, we have tons of spices and our current system is no good.

Right now we have an older version of this thing:

https://www.amazon.com/Spicy-Shelf-Deluxe-As-Seen/dp/B077VTX4KZ



Which is kind of a POS. Works OK in theory, but the shelves sag ever so slightly, which means it ends up sloped downwards, so things fall off easily. The one linked looks to try to mitigate that with a non-slip surface so maybe it's worth a try. Cheap, though, so hard to go wrong if you just need something.

It's not everybodys jam but I have a shitton of diff spices since I cook all my food from scratch generally and do indian, korean, etc on top of your more american or italian / french things. Anyways, I just use some large bins that are just high enough to extend past the tops of my different spice jars. The bins are stackable and I put them in stacks in low shelving in the kitchen. I just pull out the bin(s) needed when I cook. It's a lot easier than trying to have a dozen different things on hand in a prominent place in the kitchen but ymmv.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




Our shower is a prefab Toto "unit bath" (Sazana model) with plastic wall panels and flooring instead of tile and it's very comfortable and can be installed in 1-2 days. You have enough space to make a wetroom style shower and you won't regret it.

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007



peanut posted:

Our shower is a prefab Toto "unit bath" (Sazana model) with plastic wall panels and flooring instead of tile and it's very comfortable and can be installed in 1-2 days. You have enough space to make a wetroom style shower and you won't regret it.

Do... Do they make this for the US market?

I want a wet room so bad

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Epitope posted:

I should make a thread. I may have time/energy tonight.

I made a thread. Come help/laugh at me

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3951491

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Clayton Bigsby
Apr 17, 2005



Network42 posted:

This is the tub in question:



The terrible MSPaint arrow indicates where the drain is located. I'm not picky on what ends up there as long as we can shower, I don't need a fancy glass enclosure, I'm fine with a shower curtain or whatever. I just want to shower without walking downstairs. If 15k isn't enough to get it done I guess I can start looking at partial DIY.

Can't you just rip out the tub and get a shower stall big enough to cover the area where it was? You should be able to get away with doing that for a couple of grand at most. Not the nicest solution but if you're working on a budget... I've seen some huge loving models so should be possible to find one that covers the whole area.



Hell, you could get one of these monstrosities as well:
https://www.aquapeutics.com/caribbean.html

Mind you, I know nothing about what brands in the US are worth looking at, but here in Sweden you can get something like that steam shower / tub for $3-4k and install it yourself.

Clayton Bigsby fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 14, 2020

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