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TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


Also, I totally knew Kash was scum.

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CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

I only meant that if you had maybe gone to a different location or if scum had really consolidated and all went to the same location after GG died you may have been able to get some use out of it instead of just sitting in the warehouse and searching every night.

The way the scum team was designed was that they would move around a lot and use their abilities to gain advantage in the first few days without having to worry much about searching until the next day.

You guys didn't really coordinate your powers or even use many of them.

Yeah I think we got unlucky but frankly I'm not really sure things would have gone very differently if we used the powers as you envisioned. Sometimes you get unlucky, but I don't think even optimal use of our powers would have overcome many things. Also having parts of our scumdoc broadcast makes coordination much less likely to happen. I don't think we played well but I don't think we just poo poo on the floor and rolled around in it either.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



TMMadman posted:

Actually, the two of you would have lived through D4 because I would have seen Rarity kill JakeP.

No, we wouldn't have, because the bunker was found.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


CCKeane posted:

No, we wouldn't have, because the bunker was found.

Well, I mean if the bunker hadn't been found. DUH.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

Yeah I think we got unlucky but frankly I'm not really sure things would have gone very differently if we used the powers as you envisioned. Sometimes you get unlucky, but I don't think even optimal use of our powers would have overcome many things. Also having parts of our scumdoc broadcast makes coordination much less likely to happen. I don't think we played well but I don't think we just poo poo on the floor and rolled around in it either.

Yeah I can see that, but I mean,you have to know I obviously wouldn't have completely boned you with the broadcast thing.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



TMMadman posted:

Well, I mean if the bunker hadn't been found. DUH.

Well yes, if we did not lose the game then we would not have lost the game.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


CapitalistPig posted:

Yeah I can see that, but I mean,you have to know I obviously wouldn't have completely boned you with the broadcast thing.

Although you did bone them by giving them an ability called Doom Squad Assemble.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Also , if you had used the powers as I envisioned it would have allowed you to spread out to differing locations to find targets and then all fly to the location, kill the target unnoticed. I think you guys could have done really well and won even if there was more of that kind of thing.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

Yeah I can see that, but I mean,you have to know I obviously wouldn't have completely boned you with the broadcast thing.

Considering I called to explicitly not use user names in the doc, no, I didn't. Scum didn't know what the mechanics of broadcast were, so minimizing that is a natural consequence.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



So basically town puzzling out the GG claim on D2 followed by the terrible double whammy of me tracking Gulag on D3 really must have been a motherfucker for scum to deal with.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

Considering I called to explicitly not use user names in the doc, no, I didn't. Scum didn't know what the mechanics of broadcast were, so minimizing that is a natural consequence.

Keane, buddy, please think.

Why would I , as a mod, ever just blatantly screw over the scumteam like that?

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

Also , if you had used the powers as I envisioned it would have allowed you to spread out to differing locations to find targets and then all fly to the location, kill the target unnoticed. I think you guys could have done really well and won even if there was more of that kind of thing.

Look, I'm not mad, and you can easily get unlucky in a role madness game, but I think we got kinda hosed kinda early and ended up limping along until we had a bullet put in us. Please remember that we don't have perfect information either, of either the town's abilities or the mechanics of the game, and needing to figure that out lead to some conservative choices, which obviously you feel are less than optimal but felt sensible at the time.

Pussy Quipped
Jan 29, 2009



TMMadman posted:

Also, I totally knew Kash was scum.

Same, bulletin board proves it

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

Keane, buddy, please think.

Why would I , as a mod, ever just blatantly screw over the scumteam like that?

CapPig, buddy, please think.

How was I to know it wasn't a whacky town power like "post the last message posted in the scum doc when you receive this PM" or something?

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

Look, I'm not mad, and you can easily get unlucky in a role madness game, but I think we got kinda hosed kinda early and ended up limping along until we had a bullet put in us. Please remember that we don't have perfect information either, of either the town's abilities or the mechanics of the game, and needing to figure that out lead to some conservative choices, which obviously you feel are less than optimal but felt sensible at the time.

I get it, I was just responding to "I don't think even optimal use of our powers would have overcome many things. "

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

CapPig, buddy, please think.

How was I to know it wasn't a whacky town power like "post the last message posted in the scum doc when you receive this PM" or something?

because that would be a really bad power for a mod to give town. Pod and I literally just went over the scumdoc looking for things that weren't going to blatantly screw the scumteam over but still give tiny bits of information to town, like the name of a power, or where someone was going or whatever.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Like your argument that I should have known that you wouldn't have posted something that would have absolutely screwed scum. Frankly if that was something that you were going to guarantee, maybe things could have been different there, and if that was the case you could have EASILY fixed that by saying "I'm not going to gently caress you" in the doc.

It kind of seems like you really wanted the scum team to read your mind w/r/t the set up and powers, and I don't think that's feasible.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

CapitalistPig posted:

I agree, thats one of the things I would change about the next incarnation is removing attack/defend entirely and make searching not take up your "action" for the night.

Good idea

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

because that would be a really bad power for a mod to give town.

Again, asking me to read your mind and figure out that posted scumdoc information wouldn't have directly hosed us. I really, really don't think that is a fair assumption to expect us to make.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

Like your argument that I should have known that you wouldn't have posted something that would have absolutely screwed scum. Frankly if that was something that you were going to guarantee, maybe things could have been different there, and if that was the case you could have EASILY fixed that by saying "I'm not going to gently caress you" in the doc.

It kind of seems like you really wanted the scum team to read your mind w/r/t the set up and powers, and I don't think that's feasible.

I suppose I just felt like that's kind of a fundamental thing if I wanted people to play in my games ever again. was not make a power that could completely screw over one side with no way out of it.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


Hey scum, why did you kill MG3 on N2 when FL and Jake where there as well?

Also, I'm surprised that two of you didn't go to the same location on N2 and claim to be attacked by each other?

edit - Oops, I mean Max, not Jake.

TMMadman fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Apr 19, 2016

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


I was actually a 2nd butthole giving gang of women the whole time.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Also, did scum not see me at the Dam and go "hey, maybe kill him / don't make me do the kill?"

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

because that would be a really bad power for a mod to give town. Pod and I literally just went over the scumdoc looking for things that weren't going to blatantly screw the scumteam over but still give tiny bits of information to town, like the name of a power, or where someone was going or whatever.

Okay, I'm going to break down my points here:

You mentioned that better communication would have helped the scum team, which I agree with!

Information from the scumdoc was posted in the thread by a moderator.

Posting information from the scumdoc had a direct effect in reducing conversation in the scumdoc and minimizing some chat, making the better communication significantly less likely to happen.

I object to the implication that we could have avoiding this by knowing that we wouldn't have been utterly hosed by this. We had no information about what roles are out there, why this was happening, and how badly we would have been screwed. Saying that we should have had faith that you wouldn't have screwed us and used the doc as normal is kind of a stretch.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

Okay, I'm going to break down my points here:

You mentioned that better communication would have helped the scum team, which I agree with!

Information from the scumdoc was posted in the thread by a moderator.

Posting information from the scumdoc had a direct effect in reducing conversation in the scumdoc and minimizing some chat, making the better communication significantly less likely to happen.

I object to the implication that we could have avoiding this by knowing that we wouldn't have been utterly hosed by this. We had no information about what roles are out there, why this was happening, and how badly we would have been screwed. Saying that we should have had faith that you wouldn't have screwed us and used the doc as normal is kind of a stretch.

I get what you are saying , You don't have to break it down again.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

I suppose I just felt like that's kind of a fundamental thing if I wanted people to play in my games ever again. was not make a power that could completely screw over one side with no way out of it.

Look, I'm telling you as a player I felt it was a pretty frustrating and lovely thing to happen at all. I liked your flavor and the game had a lot of moving parts that were managed well, but seriously for real seriously, in a game that requires communication and coordination, messing with that throws a lot of things off.

I don't think it would have changed the final outcome, town had us dead to rights, but I don't think that was a good mechanic and I don't think it should be included in future games.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

I get what you are saying , You don't have to break it down again.

I'm going to break it down until it is three straight lines and a dot.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

I don't think that was a good mechanic and I don't think it should be included in future games.

That's all you had to say to begin with.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

That's all you had to say to begin with.

I'm allowed to moan a bit, and I'll admit I was feeling pretty defensive when I saw the posts saying communication would have helped.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

I'm allowed to moan a bit, and I'll admit I was feeling pretty defensive when I saw the posts saying communication would have helped.

Yeah you are right, that's easy for me to say since I had all the information. I probably would have been frustrated as scum this game too. Hindsight etc...

Max
Nov 30, 2002



TMMadman posted:

Actually, the two of you would have lived through D4 because I would have seen Rarity kill JakeP.

Haha, I followed Rarity too, that would have been the entirety of D4.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CapitalistPig posted:

Yeah you are right, that's easy for me to say since I had all the information. I probably would have been frustrated as scum this game too. Hindsight etc...

It's cool, this game had a lot of moving parts and you and podima were on top of a lot, and the flavor was really, really good. I like role madness games overall and I hope you run another.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


Max posted:

Haha, I followed Rarity too, that would have been the entirety of D4.

And I saw that too! :)

I was so happy when I saw that both you and Jake were in the Wastes because I figured you followed people there. I was going to use my "I am Everywhere" power anyway, but with the two of you there, I figured one of the three of us would die.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

CCKeane posted:

It's cool, this game had a lot of moving parts and you and podima were on top of a lot, and the flavor was really, really good. I like role madness games overall and I hope you run another.

Yeah It's the most effort I've ever put into flavor.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



TMMadman posted:

And I saw that too! :)

I was so happy when I saw that both you and Jake were in the Wastes because I figured you followed people there. I was going to use my "I am Everywhere" power anyway, but with the two of you there, I figured one of the three of us would die.

I almost considered going to the wastes in the hopes that you would be there, and then jail you in order to protect you. You were right about that though, since one of us did die.

I don't know if Gulag knew I was at the dam, but they really should have killed me that night, or decide not to be the kill.

JimsonTheBetrayer
Oct 13, 2010

Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.


CCKeane posted:

Look, I'm telling you as a player I felt it was a pretty frustrating and lovely thing to happen at all. I liked your flavor and the game had a lot of moving parts that were managed well, but seriously for real seriously, in a game that requires communication and coordination, messing with that throws a lot of things off.

I don't think it would have changed the final outcome, town had us dead to rights, but I don't think that was a good mechanic and I don't think it should be included in future games.

God capitalist pig. Your a stupid loving rear end holy. Holy poo poo how could you do that? Like holy gently caress I hope you just straight up die forever you piece of poo poo.
I thought it was pretty neat and fit flavor just wish it was implemented better

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


I liked having the threat of the lie detector hovering over the scum team.

And I think even if you had jailed me, my power would have worked because it couldn't be stopped or blocked in any fashion. I'm not sure if it would have left me open to being killed, but I still would have gotten results on being jailed. That's awesome.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Jimson posted:

God capitalist pig. Your a stupid loving rear end holy. Holy poo poo how could you do that? Like holy gently caress I hope you just straight up die forever you piece of poo poo.
I thought it was pretty neat and fit flavor just wish it was implemented better

Yep, that exactly Pod and I talked about how it was a good idea on paper, but wasn't implemented well.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Jimson posted:

God capitalist pig. Your a stupid loving rear end holy. Holy poo poo how could you do that? Like holy gently caress I hope you just straight up die forever you piece of poo poo.
I thought it was pretty neat and fit flavor just wish it was implemented better

Yeah, that's not even close to the tone of the conversation we were having. CapPig is a big boy and can take criticism.

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JimsonTheBetrayer
Oct 13, 2010

Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.


CCKeane posted:

Yeah, that's not even close to the tone of the conversation we were having. CapPig is a big boy and can take criticism.

Apparently you can't take a joke though.

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