Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010








I think rivals of aether is good

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Victory Position
Mar 15, 2004

Don't call me a hero.









In Training posted:

I've played it like twice and it's pretty fun

I played it tonight and it was a lot of fun!

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine


Nostalgia4Butts
Jun 1, 2006

WHERE MY HOSE DRINKERS AT

that cga stage in slap city convinced me to grab it this week

Renoistic
Jul 27, 2007

Everyone has a
guardian angel.


Are people unironically recommending Slap City itt?

OK cool. I don't get it but cool. Reminds me I haven't beaten Ittle Dew yet.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!


Welcome to Slap City.

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012

*laughs at u*


Renoistic posted:

Are people unironically recommending Slap City itt?

OK cool. I don't get it but cool. Reminds me I haven't beaten Ittle Dew yet.

we recommend good games here

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




CharlieFoxtrot posted:

...SHAOLIN MONKS?!

Father Satan, please make this happen.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Countblanc posted:

Welcome to Slap City.

Roll up your shirt and jean shorts.

CRISPYBABY
Dec 15, 2007

by Reene


I definitely got my 8 dollars worth of entertainment out of it.

Big Scary Owl
Oct 1, 2014

Too scary



https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...effect#comments

quote:

Fantasy Strike now has visual effects on every hit that show if you recover first, or if your opponent does. They look like this:


And here's a gif showing the effect in action:


Projectiles showing frame advantage


https://steamcommunity.com/games/39...147113832221036

quote:

Practice Mode Improvements

Here’s the new display of frame data in practice mode:



Remember this dynamic frame data, meaning it’s computing the frame advantage on the fly, depending on exactly how you hit. The frame advantage numbers take into account if you hit early in your jump or late, if you hit with the very first active frames of an attack or the tail end, etc.

Also new in practice mode is a new UI for frame step mode that now allows controllers to use it. Just press L2 while in practice mode and the game will pause and turn frame step on. From here, you can press R2 to advance one frame, hold R2 to advance many frames continuously, and you can also hold various attack buttons, then press R2 in order to perfectly execute moves as you frame step. You can also do all this with keyboard, and default controls are listed at the top of the screen. You can change these buttons to anything else you want in button config, just switch to the “other controls” tab there to do it.

Fantasy Strike wins

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


The practice mode stuff is cool and good but the hitsparks are dumb as heck imo

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -


A combination of SFV and SG. Neat.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013



Arzachel posted:

The practice mode stuff is cool and good but the hitsparks are dumb as heck imo

Actually they're really cool and fit in great with FS's stated purpose.
In some games you really do want to emphasize the importance of game knowledge and give an advantage to the player who really knows his poo poo and can identify exactly which obscure situations make which moves safe/unsafe. But Fantasy Strike is specifically trying to de-emphasize that kind of thing and make the genre more accessible to newbies.

e:

quote:

--All characters now have footstep sounds. This is especially helpful for blind gamers, as the footsteps work with stereo sound.

RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 7, 2018

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010



I like the general idea, but the red hit spark behind a blue hit effect is not a great implementation I think since it could be confusing to read quickly.

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



Arzachel posted:

The practice mode stuff is cool and good but the hitsparks are dumb as heck imo

It's awesome actually and I'm surprised the idea was never implemented earlier in another game at some point.

DoubleDonut
Oct 22, 2010




Fallen Rib

doesn't that basically make all frame traps completely worthless

interrodactyl
Nov 8, 2011

you have no dignity


You still have to guess between throw and button

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


RPATDO_LAMD posted:

Actually they're really cool and fit in great with FS's stated purpose.
In some games you really do want to emphasize the importance of game knowledge and give an advantage to the player who really knows his poo poo and can identify exactly which obscure situations make which moves safe/unsafe. But Fantasy Strike is specifically trying to de-emphasize that kind of thing and make the genre more accessible to newbies.

Unless FS has a ton of moves with super long active frames that become safe when hit late, you can get the same effect with good animations while a) making the overall gamefeel more intuitive b) not requiring extra mental processing c) not adding extra visual clutter to an already ugly-rear end game

IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

AndyElusive posted:

It's awesome actually and I'm surprised the idea was never implemented earlier in another game at some point.
It's very cool. I strongly feel that knowing when it is "your turn" is the hardest actual thing about fighting games, because it requires getting a lot of knowledge about the moves of whatever character you're fighting in order to not eat a hit when you thought you could attack.

Zand
Jul 9, 2003

~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

DoubleDonut posted:

doesn't that basically make all frame traps completely worthless

not necessarily, because you can cancel moves that if left uncanceled would put you at a frame disadvantage. even if you're at a numbers disadvantage doesnt mean you cant for example hard read an invuln DP or a counter after doing something that puts you at a slight frame disadvantage. sometimes being at a frame disadvantage when you have a range advantage in the matchup can allow you to continue pressure based on spacing

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013



Arzachel posted:

Unless FS has a ton of moves with super long active frames that become safe when hit late, you can get the same effect with good animations while a) making the overall gamefeel more intuitive b) not requiring extra mental processing c) not adding extra visual clutter to an already ugly-rear end game

They do require extra memorization though. You need to know the matchup and learn which of your opponent's moves are safe or unsafe before you can start making decisions about them. There's nothing wrong with a fighting game having tests of knowledge like that, but FS is specifically trying to avoid them.

In Training
Jun 28, 2008



It's a neat idea but does anybody play Fantasy Strike. I've always felt like it's a game targeting a consumer that doesn't exist.

In Training
Jun 28, 2008



Like how many people out there actually want to learn how to play fighting games but also don't want to read about how to do so. If you're not motivated enough to do that research in the first place no amount of "meet you halfway" design concessions are actually going to make converts of the platonic casual.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013



In Training posted:

does anybody play Fantasy Strike
no

When it gets out of early-access and releases on console it will at least have temporarily not-dead online, but they definitely don't have the resources for crossplay. I know Capcom has to pay for and host their own matchmaking servers instead of relying on the free ones from sony/steam for crossplay to work on SFV.

Corbeau
Sep 12, 2010

Jack of All Trades


The only thing wrong with having distinct animations for advantage is how obnoxious and/or out of place they look. And I must admit that those don't look great. Compare with Soul Calibur, where moves that put you at big advantage have a big fancy lightning effect throughout that fits right in with the game's over-the-top style. Hitsparks already change in fighting games based on hit vs block, it's no great jump to make relative advantage immediately apparent. If you're not prepared to react accordingly then an extra color ain't going to matter in the moment - but it'll make it easy to understand why you ate the frame trap when your new player brain catches up.

Speaking of Soul Calibur, the impending release of 6 is why I'm not interested in Fantasy Strike. Otherwise I'd be distinctly interested.

bebaloorpabopalo
Nov 23, 2005

I'm not interested in constructive criticism, believe me.

A design like Fantasy Strikes does nothing really to make a complete newbie do any better against a good fighting game player but it squishes the ceiling down so the gap between 10-Year Scrub and Actual Good Player is tiny and that's the worst and most unfun thing. It's the same poo poo as Rising Thunder where I was beating or going even with players 3 tiers above my skill level in any other fighting game. Street Fighter 5 has the same thing to a lesser degree and it's worse for it. It makes basically any game worse, it's a bad thing to do.

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool


bebaloorpabopalo posted:

A design like Fantasy Strikes does nothing really to make a complete newbie do any better against a good fighting game player but it squishes the ceiling down so the gap between 10-Year Scrub and Actual Good Player is tiny and that's the worst and most unfun thing. It's the same poo poo as Rising Thunder where I was beating or going even with players 3 tiers above my skill level in any other fighting game. Street Fighter 5 has the same thing to a lesser degree and it's worse for it. It makes basically any game worse, it's a bad thing to do.

the biggest crime all these games suffer from is they're really loving unfun to press buttons in

Corbeau
Sep 12, 2010

Jack of All Trades


anime was right posted:

the biggest crime all these games suffer from is they're really loving unfun to press buttons in

I don't know if I agree with the specific examples, not having played them, but as mostly a filthy casual I agree that buttons should feel good. Most of my good memories from fighting games come from using extremely fast, punchy and satisfying moves (that tend to be enormously punishable, but that's not the point).

Victory Position
Mar 15, 2004

Don't call me a hero.









In Training posted:

Like how many people out there actually want to learn how to play fighting games but also don't want to read about how to do so. If you're not motivated enough to do that research in the first place no amount of "meet you halfway" design concessions are actually going to make converts of the platonic casual.

it exists so fighting game people can be condescending to their non-fighting game friends

Sirlin's not doing a bad job despite this, though, he's just barking up the wrong tree again

mango sentinel
Jan 5, 2001

H O R N E Y


Victory Position posted:

it exists so fighting game people can be condescending to their non-fighting game friends

Sirlin's not doing a bad job despite this, though, he's just barking up the wrong tree again

His eternal quest to fix things that aren't broken.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


RPATDO_LAMD posted:

They do require extra memorization though. You need to know the matchup and learn which of your opponent's moves are safe or unsafe before you can start making decisions about them. There's nothing wrong with a fighting game having tests of knowledge like that, but FS is specifically trying to avoid them.

Pretty much everyone who blocks SFV Akuma's c. HP is going to eat a frame trap because it looks unsafe and feels unsafe but is +3. It taunts you, dares you to push a button and then you get bonked on the head for following your instincts. That's the complete opposite of what Fantasy Strike sets out to achieve but it's a great example of how a move can convey information to the player without throwing up a bunch of stats.

Corbeau posted:

The only thing wrong with having distinct animations for advantage is how obnoxious and/or out of place they look. And I must admit that those don't look great. Compare with Soul Calibur, where moves that put you at big advantage have a big fancy lightning effect throughout that fits right in with the game's over-the-top style. Hitsparks already change in fighting games based on hit vs block, it's no great jump to make relative advantage immediately apparent. If you're not prepared to react accordingly then an extra color ain't going to matter in the moment - but it'll make it easy to understand why you ate the frame trap when your new player brain catches up.

I'm totally down with exaggerated hitsparks and stagger animations, that's part of making a game's visuals intuitive.

anime was right posted:

the biggest crime all these games suffer from is they're really loving unfun to press buttons in

I will make a game that caters to newcomers of the genre by making movement and buttons feel extremely bad!

Arzachel fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 7, 2018

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013



bebaloorpabopalo posted:

A design like Fantasy Strikes does nothing really to make a complete newbie do any better against a good fighting game player

As an idiot newbie I disagree. Yeah i'm probably going to lose against people much better than me but I can tell what's going wrong, why they're beating me, which things I could've done better, etc.

I can go into SFV and have no goddamn clue what neutral even is or what I'm supposed to be doing until one of my random buttonpresses connects and i do one of the 1-2 combos i know. I have 25% winrate over 200 games in bronze league. Not that I wasn't having fun (although I haven't played too much recently), but I basically have no loving idea what's going on.

bebaloorpabopalo
Nov 23, 2005

I'm not interested in constructive criticism, believe me.

Why do you know what's going on in Fantasy Strike over SF5, though?

IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

In this specific example, the game clearly shows you when you are at frame advantage or disadvantage, which is often not clear in other games.

But that's a new feature and the other stuff in FS doesn't make a big difference in readability imo

In Training
Jun 28, 2008



SFV makes it easy bc every button is unsafe

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool


In Training posted:

SFV makes it easy bc every button is unsafe

the only button that's safe in sfv is the power button

Victory Position
Mar 15, 2004

Don't call me a hero.









anime was right posted:

the only button that's safe in sfv is the power button

my OS select of holding the HOME button to turn off the system works every time

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001






In Training posted:

SFV makes it easy bc every button is unsafe

Installing sfv on pc was also unsafe

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SirKibbles
Feb 27, 2011

I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.


Real hurthling! posted:

Installing sfv on pc was also unsafe

I still can't believe they did that and people continued to play on PC

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply