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Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.
Wait, I think you guys are confusing Samaritan and the Machine/"Root". Still, it is a funny idea.

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raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.


PST posted:

Apparently Twitter and Tumblr are melting down over 'another dead lesbian on tv'. While I agree with Nolan's interview about how Root was more than that, and how her 'end' has been telegraphed a long time to come, that's not going to calm down the understandable anger at how killing off the lesbian is the tv equivalent of shooting the black guy first in movies.

Yeah, she just got a paltry 3 seasons as a main character, outlived another main character, died in the fourth-to-last episode of the series, is probably still going to be in the rest of the episodes in computer form, and wasn't even the first person to die in that episode, but it's totally the same as the black guy dying first.

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

raditts posted:

Yeah, she just got a paltry 3 seasons as a main character, outlived another main character, died in the fourth-to-last episode of the series, is probably still going to be in the rest of the episodes in computer form, and wasn't even the first person to die in that episode, but it's totally the same as the black guy dying first.

You just wasted ~10 seconds of your life trying to apply logic to a tumblr person and now you're a racist too because you mentioned a black guy. Wait till the crew hears about this!!

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.


bring back old gbs posted:

You just wasted ~10 seconds of your life trying to apply logic to a tumblr person and now you're a racist too because you mentioned a black guy. Wait till the crew hears about this!!

gently caress

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

We're not doing this here, if it continues this thread will be closed until next week. Keep that poo poo to twitter and tumblr.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

My reluctance to enjoy clown-based movies indicates to my friends that perhaps I hold a sinister clown-based secret...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OFfSf7ukwg

I was talking about this video. If this is Root as the Machine

" Hello, if you're hearing this. I'm probably already dead. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure what victory would mean anymore. We lost you. I thought we couldn't lose anymore. I had no idea ,but either way if your hearing this. Know one thing. It's over. So let me tell you what we did to fight back "

This is a loving weird narration if Root is dead. Unless they decided to just gently caress with the audience.

I think this is the machine talking to Root ( human ) who's in a simulation?

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

Hollismason posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OFfSf7ukwg

I was talking about this video. If this is Root as the Machine

" Hello, if you're hearing this. I'm probably already dead. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure what victory would mean anymore. We lost you. I thought we couldn't lose anymore. I had no idea ,but either way if your hearing this. Know one thing. It's over. So let me tell you what we did to fight back "

This is a loving weird narration if Root is dead. Unless they decided to just gently caress with the audience.

I think this is the machine talking to Root ( human ) who's in a simulation?

They changed that audio, it's in the premiere, it reads like this now:

”If you can hear this, you're alone.

The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure what victory would even mean anymore.

But either way, it's over.

So let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are...

and how we fought back.”

Probably when they dropped that teaser at comic-con they weren't sure it was gonna be Machine Root or not yet, but in the premiere it seems pretty sure.

UrbanLabyrinth
Jan 27, 2009

When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence


College Slice

Hollismason posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OFfSf7ukwg

I was talking about this video. If this is Root as the Machine

" Hello, if you're hearing this. I'm probably already dead. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure what victory would mean anymore. We lost you. I thought we couldn't lose anymore. I had no idea ,but either way if your hearing this. Know one thing. It's over. So let me tell you what we did to fight back "

This is a loving weird narration if Root is dead. Unless they decided to just gently caress with the audience.

I think this is the machine talking to Root ( human ) who's in a simulation?
Pretty sure you're over thinking it and it's start of season Root recording a message for Shaw (who is "lost") about how they're responding to Samaritan" winning" at the end of season 4.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

My reluctance to enjoy clown-based movies indicates to my friends that perhaps I hold a sinister clown-based secret...


UrbanLabyrinth posted:

Pretty sure you're over thinking it and it's start of season Root recording a message for Shaw (who is "lost") about how they're responding to Samaritan" winning" at the end of season 4.

Why would Root tell Shaw she was alone that doesn't really make sense. I am pretty sure that the machine is either talking to it's child that it creates or it's talking to Root.

I'm kind of leaning toward everyone's dead and the machine created a failsafe.

I don't think anyone is going to make it out of this season alive.

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Zaggitz posted:

They changed that audio, it's in the premiere, it reads like this now:

”If you can hear this, you're alone.

The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure what victory would even mean anymore.

But either way, it's over.

So let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are...

and how we fought back.”

Probably when they dropped that teaser at comic-con they weren't sure it was gonna be Machine Root or not yet, but in the premiere it seems pretty sure.

Ahhh that's totally The Machine talking to it's baby eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

The baby is a litter of German Sheppard puppies with cochlear implants

Sereri
Sep 30, 2008

awwwrigami

Zaggitz posted:

They changed that audio, it's in the premiere, it reads like this now:

”If you can hear this, you're alone.

The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure what victory would even mean anymore.

But either way, it's over.

So let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are...

and how we fought back.”

Probably when they dropped that teaser at comic-con they weren't sure it was gonna be Machine Root or not yet, but in the premiere it seems pretty sure.

OK, my personal theory is that it's the machine with root's voice, talking to Blackwell. They will all die/disappear and he will continue to fight against Samaritan and/or save numbers.

It would tie into what they said in an interview that CBS wasn't happy with the ending (because its not giving full closure and the heroes presumably fall). It would also explain why the season focuses on this guy and why what he does isn't simply done by Random Samaritan henchman #B-31. But it's also worded in a way that I think it's not directed to the general population but a single person, however one who doesn't actually know the team very well.

That's why I think it's talking to Blackwell who will for reasons yet unknown take over for team machine

Metropolis
Apr 6, 2006
I don't think the voiceover will necessarily show up again. It also does not need to be at the end of the season, it could just be an 'all is lost moment' kinda thing to close out an episode.

It was good to have the full Team Machine back.

I can't believe they brought back 2-Fones/The Voice. While I would have rather seen Wesley from Critical back, I am glad they are at least closing some threads.

I am a little disappointed that Team Machine's ultimate comeback plan wasn't to recruit a huge amount of the people they had helped over the years. They saved all kinds of people with specific talents. The entire series being one big team recruiting scene like in a heist movie would have been a glorious payoff. But, that may still happen, we haven't seen the lengths Finch is willing to go to on his ultimate rampage yet. And if it doesn't happen, well that's okay, it would be boring if the show just went the way I hoped it would.

Finch's monologue was totally awesome. You can tell when the writers do something they have been waiting to do for a long time, and that was one of those things.

His escape was also great. I was expecting the next episode to contain some sort of convoluted plan to smuggle him out. But the machine is just like "Okay, I will break the jail open for you." And the revelation that the machine just let 600 prisoners escape is an instant way to pay off Finch saying he is done playing by the rules. Such a good, dense episode.

buddhanc
Feb 16, 2010

That super tall black Samaritan operative survived for a way longer time than any other operative. That dude was indestructible!

buddhanc fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jun 1, 2016

Nephzinho
Jan 24, 2008



So are we just down to a 2 hour finale? What do we have left?

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

Nephzinho posted:

So are we just down to a 2 hour finale? What do we have left?

3 episodes left, one a week.

Fhqwhgads
Jul 18, 2003

I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID
I wonder if my reaction to meeting Emerson would have been any different had it been after I saw this episode instead of at the beginning of the season. I've never seen LOST so I can't draw the Ben Linus parallels but that monologue was amazing. I finally caught up now and I'm stunned.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Metropolis posted:

His escape was also great. I was expecting the next episode to contain some sort of convoluted plan to smuggle him out. But the machine is just like "Okay, I will break the jail open for you." And the revelation that the machine just let 600 prisoners escape is an instant way to pay off Finch saying he is done playing by the rules. Such a good, dense episode.

Knowing Cocopuffs, nothing she coded in was "defensive" at all. My bet is she gave it proper free will, freed it from the rules Finch imposed. What rules she does have are her own formed through the collective personalities of the team.

Mr. Horyd
Jul 17, 2001

REDHEADS WILL BE MY DOWNFALL!

Mr. Horyd posted:

I submit that an interesting direction the show might take can be found if we examine two of the season's best episodes, If-Then-Else and Terra Incognita.

The display of the Machine's ability to predict human behavior emphasized her speed, but the fidelity in simulating their mental and emotional states is even more impressive. Fusco's line "Why not, we're in a simulation?" works beautifully as a throwaway gag, but what if it indicates some level of autonomy in simulated humans? Granted, it might just be that he's the best, but maybe the Machine also knows he's a lucid dreamer?

However, we are also reminded of the human capability to simulate other humans when Reese constructs a mental projection of Carter based on a cherished memory of better times. We don't need to be transcendent AI to predict where a friend would like to get lunch or follow their style of reasoning when considering a serious life decision. This model can interact with any of our senses, and it can persist even after the human on whom it is based has died, Real enough not just to comfort but, in Reese's case, to save a life.

If Finch were to die, how would the Machine grieve? If an AI reminiscences about a dead person, it won't just be looking at camera feed of a tombstone but synthesizing an entire past history. Then, if the machine could create an ex nihilo simulation based on a situation with a 0% probability you'd have something uncannily like the original human.

I called The Machine being able to simulate and interact with entire persons, I just incorrectly guessed that it wold involve Harold instead of Root. Seeing Harold questioning his own consciousness while being simulated from scratch on an entirely new substrate would have been fun, but I'm thinking seeing him throw down as a supervillain will be better than anything I had envisioned.

Mr. Horyd fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jun 2, 2016

Tortolia
Dec 29, 2005

Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008
Grimey Drawer
Reese went on one hell of a rampage after Carter died.

Finch is going to take things to a level Ben Linus could only dream of. Holy poo poo.

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Tortolia posted:

Reese went on one hell of a rampage after Carter died.

Finch is going to take things to a level Ben Linus could only dream of. Holy poo poo.

600 dead prisoners in a pit behind the prison, Finch sitting against a tree trunk catching his breath, wiping the blood off his hands.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

What is Finch's rampage song?

UrbanLabyrinth
Jan 27, 2009

When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence


College Slice

GrandpaPants posted:

What is Finch's rampage song?

An old Irish protest song

Polygynous
Dec 13, 2006
welp
^^ better answer :)

GrandpaPants posted:

What is Finch's rampage song?

If you mean the song that played in the episode, Nine Inch Nails - The Day the World Went Away. (Same as the episode title. :v:)

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp
Gun Saliva

GrandpaPants posted:

What is Finch's rampage song?

I'm thinking maybe some more NIN, maybe Hand That Feeds.

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013

Sereri posted:

OK, my personal theory is that it's the machine with root's voice, talking to Blackwell. They will all die/disappear and he will continue to fight against Samaritan and/or save numbers.

It would tie into what they said in an interview that CBS wasn't happy with the ending (because its not giving full closure and the heroes presumably fall). It would also explain why the season focuses on this guy and why what he does isn't simply done by Random Samaritan henchman #B-31. But it's also worded in a way that I think it's not directed to the general population but a single person, however one who doesn't actually know the team very well.

That's why I think it's talking to Blackwell who will for reasons yet unknown take over for team machine


I'm not sure if we need to spoil pure speculation.

I've wondered what they had planned for the next two seasons (assuming a full 7 year show which is what they had talked about.) Samaritan ruling over all and the gang on the run for four seasons always seemed like a stretch, at some point Samaritan was going to figure them out especially with all the influence it was already having in season 4. They've already had multiple "boss fights" - the mob, HR, Vigilance, how do you top Samaritan? The Machine itself, or maybe more on Dark Harold and a machine that either twists with him or against him?

BTW the reason Samaritan could "track" Harold even with the blind spot is because, as Root mentioned, all the identities were carefully crafted to avoid suspicion and everyone had to play their role. Reese saved people by shooting bad guys which is what cops do :v:, Root was always switching up her act and could never be properly patterned, Shaw also shot bad guys which is what criminals do but got caught fairly quickly, Harold's error was going back to his old patterns. Samaritan was able to tag Whistler as "deviant" once this happened because it listened in on the conversation, figured out something was wrong, went back to see who used to go to that cafe and voila, the "Whistler" persona was broken. And of course by the end when he threatens Samaritan he's a full-on enemy.

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.

GrandpaPants posted:

What is Finch's rampage song?

It sounds a little too upbeat but I'm sure the team could've cut an impressive murder montage to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8b4xYbEugo

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

raditts posted:

HAROLD... TURN OFF MY CODE INHIBITORS!

SAMARITAN... YOUR MEMES END HERE

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

SpookyLizard posted:

SAMARITAN... YOUR MEMES END HERE

https://youtu.be/WM33Hr94SKw?t=18

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Samaritan basically is the la-li-lu-le-lo


(Also great rampage music. For the machine.)

Ignis
Mar 31, 2011

I take it you don't want my autograph, then.


My personal theory is that everyone dies except Blackwell, who's led by recordings from the Machine to the subway. There he finds Finch's Faraday cage, and inside it there's a new AI, the product of Mini Samaritan and Mini Machine merged together. And then the Machine's recordings tell the Baby AI Team Machine's story.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

So the only solution the Machine could come up with was to sleep with the enemy?

violetdragon
Jul 27, 2006

RAWR
My emotions don't feel well.

Sereri
Sep 30, 2008

awwwrigami

monster on a stick posted:

I'm not sure if we need to spoil pure speculation.

Part of it was based on that spoiler-ish interview so I just went ahead and spoilered the whole thing.

stoops
Jun 11, 2001
I just can't see an ending where everyone dies and Blackwell takes over. I mean, Nolan has said that they filmed closure but also left it so the show could come back. Who would want to see PoL without the people we are familiar with?

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014

Ignis posted:

EW interview with Jonathan Nolan and Amy Acker
Spoilers obviously, and they happen to mention Control's fate she's dead, Jim. Granted, she could still show up (and then die)...

That's really lame. It was the most interesting part of last season and it went nowhere... Ugh

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

Nameless Pete posted:

I don't care if you've had your hardware mucked with, Samaritan, how do you not realize that Veronique Chereau is a fake name?
Or maybe he is a fan of Patrice Chéreau, relatively famous Opera and movie director and Véronique being a common french name, it sounds totally not fake, just foreign to anglocentric people. And i am pretty sure he aims for world domination.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Jun 2, 2016

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES
If Blackwell's coerced into a position of responsibility for the team's deaths, guilt could drive him to serve the machine.

GrandpaPants posted:

What is Finch's rampage song?

Something melancholic but forceful would be thematically appropriate. The Day The World Went Away certainly fit the bill. The slow build-up to sudden harshness really makes it fit the beginnings of things that're gonna get hairy.

But Finch isn't the kind of man to need more than one rampage so maybe some, "We're already dead," music for great finality?

Mustache Ride
Sep 11, 2001





It's obviously going to be Starfuckers

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003

pasaluki posted:

POI has had some really good action scenes, but the minigun stuff was just pure schlock. Then again it's kind of a larger scale version of the show's Walker Texas Ranger syndrome where every week a tiny handgun wipes out an elite squad of machine guns.
Yeah, but it's been especially bad this season - minigun, Blackwell, rambling soliloquies, etc. I have loved PoI since the beginning, but this is the season where I sit there and have a nagging thought at the back of my head saying "Yeah, it's time." And I hate that. I think it's the result of the showrunners cramming so much crazy into half a normal season.


Ignis posted:

My personal theory is that everyone dies except Blackwell, who's led by recordings from the Machine to the subway. There he finds Finch's Faraday cage, and inside it there's a new AI, the product of Mini Samaritan and Mini Machine merged together. And then the Machine's recordings tell the Baby AI Team Machine's story.

Fusco has to live - he has a kid and they are not going to kill him off like that. Shaw's either going to live or go out in a tremendous firefight, after having a heart to heart with Root/the Machine. Finch will live. John is an unknown - like Shaw, it could go either way. If he dies, it will be after telling Harold how his life now means something and he appreciates being given purpose. Bear will, of course, survive.

I imagine this Blackwell guy will be the bug that takes Samaritan down eventually. He's already shown that he questions orders, and at some point, his conscience will step in. He's the variable the Machine wasn't including in it's simulations versus Samaritan.

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Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist

:dukedog:

Carter had a kid too though

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