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got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


jesus christ if adahn1986 is the last scum

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votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 4

Murmur Twin (3): dongsbot 9000, Quidnose, Quidnose, Adahn1986, Quidnose
Quidnose (1): Murmur Twin

Not Voting (1): Max

With 5 alive, it's 3 votes to lynch. The current deadline is June 22nd, 2016 at 8 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 7 hours, 58 minutes.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


please let me be dead

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Please I'd have been lunched millennia ago

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008




Wedge Regret

No one died. You smell gas.

Day 5 starts now, you have one day to find the scum. Goodbye.

Li Dawny
Apr 14, 2013



Good luck!

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


this will be the greatest test of my mafia career - a lylo with quidnose, adahn1986, and max: all people i hate and/or have stick figure art that has "done moderately well within the art - photography world"

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008




Wedge Regret

dongsbot 9000 posted:

this will be the greatest test of my mafia career - a lylo with quidnose, adahn1986, and max: all people i hate and/or have stick figure art that has "done moderately well within the art - photography world"

You Must Not Fail

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I woke up dead Go town though

(I'm still allowed to talk and scumhunt, right?)

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Breathe a little deeper, should you need to come undone



Good luck town. Dawny and MMT should weigh in. Moat should try and vote again.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Murmur Twin posted:

I woke up dead Go town though

(I'm still allowed to talk and scumhunt, right?)

Yeah.

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Breathe a little deeper, should you need to come undone



Murmur Twin posted:

I woke up dead Go town though

(I'm still allowed to talk and scumhunt, right?)

Yes.

Li Dawny
Apr 14, 2013



Okay you guys, what are your thoughts? I want an honest read on each other, take your time if you need to, but actually look around and make cases.

Clarifying: Alive guys who are not Dongsbott.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


li dawny, thank u for letting me abstain from making cases, reading posts, etc

Li Dawny
Apr 14, 2013



dongsbot 9000 posted:

li dawny, thank u for letting me abstain from making cases, reading posts, etc

I fully believe you're Crysta, there's been no CC. And I'm really really interested to see what they say. I may ask you to make calls once it's all over though, so don't just read and discard.

Interested in the way that I'm interested in all the surgeries on The Knick.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I'm not gonna be able to make a big post until later, but I'm essentially throwing most of my thoughts in the trash since I've been wrong for a while, and this Lylo demands a real re-read.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



This game needed more votefinder posts. I have to do some manual counting.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

Anomalous Amalgam (2): dongsbot 9000, Adahn1986
Moatillata (1): Max, Max, Murmur Twin, Murmur Twin, Infinitum, Max, Max, Infinitum, Infinitum, Infinitum, Infinitum
Quidnose (1): Murmur Twin
Adahn1986 (0): Murmur Twin, Murmur Twin
dongsbot 9000 (0): Max, Max
Max (0): Murmur Twin, Murmur Twin

Not Voting (5): Anomalous Amalgam, Li Dawny, Max, Moatillata, Quidnose

With 9 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch. The current deadline is June 16th, 2016 at 2:39 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 4 hours, 1 minute.

Mid D1 votecount. Leaving this here for myself because I hate reviewing with the loving BBcode in my face but I need this info.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Focusing my reread on Max right now because I have admittedly read him the least. Here are my thoughts initially from D1:

Max:
-Engages Adahn early in no-dunk theory chat. Could be a scum distraction technique. Specifically tries to get MMT involved in discussing this.
-…in fact the entirety of his D1 posting is all this so far in a reread. No alignment calls to begin, no scumhunting. First real call is agreeing with me about AA having made a scumpost.
-First case is on moat with this:

Max posted:

I was going to say that Moat voting for you is lovely and then saw your reply as I was typing this. On top of you, they'd vote Lil D even though they don't mention them at all in that post?

##vote Moat for reals.

Would also go AA, but it's only the start of the game and that would put them at -2.
Agreeing about AA but not committing could be suspicious.
-Li made this point D1:

Li Dawny posted:

Along the lines of my feelings toward AA, Max seems to be waffling back and forth quite a bit. He agrees with AA, then AA is slightly scummy, then AA is totally scummy with no reasoning of his own.
Which is accurate, he is throwing AA’s name out a lot but not doing anything about he. He literally shrugs it off with a shrug emoticon. Li keeps pushing this, Max dismisses it as valid due to the distraction of the mechanics argument.
-A whole lot of “I’m sure it’s AA” posts without a whole lot of…willingness to vote AA? He even makes the “gut says AA head says Moat” post and then contradicts it by saying “I woke up today and there’s a lot of movement off of AA, I really want to know his alignment” statement (this is all same game day).
-Has a hard town read on Adahn because of Mechanics argument.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I guess I should reread Adahn up to this point, but I think I might have found something informative EoD1. Maybe. But let me review this Adahn since most of my memories are him being all over the place surrounding his potential dunk, which is gonna happen right after this.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I'm gonna be all over the place as I reread.

Adahn outing MMT incorrectly is an interesting thing to me. I didn't like him doing it, but I saw what he was talking about before he pointed the "softclaim" out.

Dongsbot being mad at Adahn for his no-dunk floating idea makes a lot more sense now that we know Dongs is Ferngully. Adahn's been pushing this narrative of being really focused on theory this game using his analytical brain, which I have been buying.

Question is: Would scum Adahn have looked back and seen dongs' interactions on D1 and wondered about that over MMT's weird softclaim?
Why was town Adahn looking for Ferngully on that day?
What does scum have to game from forcing a Ferngully outing yesterday? Limiting the pool of players to prime to ensure success? Does that even matter?

Went in with a prime before yesterday. 5 yesterday, 4 now. 3 after today.
If he unsuccessfully primed BOTH nights and he fires off a burn, we're still in 3man DULO. So yes, it does make sense for him to force a ferngully claim yesterday to limit his pool of people to prime and ensure he goes into tonight with one person dead, ensuring the game is over.

Can Ferngully self protect?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I think that is actually the strongest case for Adahn being scum. Why did he force a ferngully outing. Why did he waffle on quoting the "softclaim" and then do it anyway.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



RolePM says "one other player." Knowing who Ferngully is means that Adahn has a 100% for sure kill after today's misdunk, whereas not knowing means he's guessing at who the fairy is.

That might be it.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



My point being that Adahn would have gone into yesterday looking at that and going "The fairy can't selfprotect, so if I can get a misdunk off today and out the fairy for a burn, I can for sure burn the fairy and then just have to get through one more day."

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Ninja'd my post for clarity about the fairy burning.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max, right before I was hammered posted:

With Dongs being the fairy this does change a few things. I moved off MMT early this game day after we all thought they were Fernie the Gully. Now that's obviously no longer the case, and my point about dongs earlier is moot.

Wait a sec.

...I know that Adahn thought I softclaimed FernGully the Fairy but I never saw any indication that Max thought I did? And my softclaim occurred on either D2 or D3 (I forget), Max shouldn't have moved his vote from me D4 because of that.

Am I reading this statement wrong?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I think he's referring to this timeline:

-We all go into D4 convinced you are the last scum.
-Adahn goes "Wait, pretty sure MMT is Ferngully." Provides proof.
-We all buy this since Dongs didn't immediately claim, start discussing other possibilities.
-Dongs claims, you come in and confirm you're not Ferngully.

So Max is referring to the period of time when we all went "welp that does look like a softclaim."

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Like for real, how does town Adahn, rereading the game to try to find a Ferngully softclaim, miss dongs anger on D1 followed by this exchange:

dongsbot 9000 posted:

adahn, im not going to fall for your town tells i know youre not ferngully

Adahn1986 posted:

of course i'm a tree. everyone is a tree. anyone who doesn't claim tree is an idjit


dongsbot 9000 posted:

im not a tree

....and jump on MMT's single post?

And for real, what is Town Adahn's motivation for going back and trying to figure out who Ferngully is? What was your motivation, Adahn?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Quidnose posted:

I think he's referring to this timeline:

-We all go into D4 convinced you are the last scum.
-Adahn goes "Wait, pretty sure MMT is Ferngully." Provides proof.
-We all buy this since Dongs didn't immediately claim, start discussing other possibilities.
-Dongs claims, you come in and confirm you're not Ferngully.

So Max is referring to the period of time when we all went "welp that does look like a softclaim."

I'm gonna go re-read that for a sec and see what's up. I didn't suspect Max at all until I was hammered but I'm starting to grow suspicious (meaning that at some point I've had scum reads on all the eligible people left - whoever it is is doing a good job )

Also this should go without saying but please no one vote until everyone has weighed in.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Interesting. I can't even think of building a case at this point. Again, from my perspective, Max or Quid is scum, and if they lynch me it's game over for town. All the info is out there and I need to very carefully digest it.

If it were obvious this would be easy, but it's not. The fact that MMT flipped town means Quid needs a re-read.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn:
-Although Max keeps biting, it really is looking more like Adahn is the one who keeps jumping at the opportunity to push this. Every time someone brings it up he responds with a long theory discussion on it. Jumps on Li for calling him condescending. A whole lot of not scum hunting that he created.

The AA/Adahn connection

AA was truly on the fence re: mechanics chat despite his bluster about not being so. This is the first time he actually comes out and makes an opinion:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Lynching is probably the best course though given stumps being in the game.

...which he then immediately backs off of. Maybe not wanting to put too much heat on his scum buddy?

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

As of right now I don't want to bark up the wrong tree and am stumped as is usual for day 1 play. The mechanics discussion seems a bit heavy handed, but not warrantless. I just don't want the game to devolve into that. I'll be releafed if we get scum today.
This is supported by AA then immediately going back to pushing Adahn’s theory as plausible while also restarting the argument:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

It's a 12.5% chance to douse correctly if we no lynch today, but those odd increase exponentially each lynch. Granted if the firefighter is primed not much can be done long term.
It's not a bad theory, but I think town benefits from lynch with information and narrowing the pool of players to better identify scum and make firefighter more viable.
The only problem here is that Adahn turns around and jumps on AA for doing so:

Adahn1986 posted:

anywho the proper counter-argument is the 22% chance of a scum lynch D1 and 25% chance D2, even if you close your eyes and point.

i like those odds

##vote AA

Adahn1986 posted:

No I'm actually a giant dumbass, but in retrospect scum might see the argument and be like, "Hey, this doesn't seem terrible to me."

This puts them into a spat starting [url= http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3779825&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post461038473]here[/url]. I am not sure if this is fake or not, would like others to read and see what they think. It’s a pretty easy semantic fight but if it is faked they do a good job of it.
They do completely drop this discussion once I jump on AA and he turns on me, so maybe that’s the point. Would scum Adahn drop a vote to put his buddy at -2 for no reason?
Inf comes in and starts pushing Moat at this point so that ends their interactions for now.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn1986 posted:

Interesting. I can't even think of building a case at this point.

I don't like this mindset. I went into today feeling lost but I was like "I gotta figure out who the scum is," while you seem to be saying "I gotta figure out who I can convince people to misdunk." That's...pretty huge, man. Your language seems to show your true intent here.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Quidnose posted:

I think he's referring to this timeline:

-We all go into D4 convinced you are the last scum.
-Adahn goes "Wait, pretty sure MMT is Ferngully." Provides proof.
-We all buy this since Dongs didn't immediately claim, start discussing other possibilities.
-Dongs claims, you come in and confirm you're not Ferngully.

So Max is referring to the period of time when we all went "welp that does look like a softclaim."

This. everyone but MMT was around and dongs hadn't CC'd, so we all assumed it was true.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Quidnose posted:

Like for real, how does town Adahn, rereading the game to try to find a Ferngully softclaim, miss dongs anger on D1 followed by this exchange:




....and jump on MMT's single post?

And for real, what is Town Adahn's motivation for going back and trying to figure out who Ferngully is? What was your motivation, Adahn?

I wasn't looking for a softclaim, but I thought I found one and laid off MMT. I have no reason to try and figure out who FG is and dongs has read town to me all game so I didn't examine him closely.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn1986 posted:

Moat's pretty laid back about the all the heat coming his way, I dunno if that's his personality?

Some of his calls were unsubstantiated and vague, but I have trouble seeing that as a hard scumtell.

If I had the same amount of focus on me, I'd probably react the same way. Getting tree-stumped isn't terrible, and I'm not the power role.

Sure, we'd lose out on an arsonist lynch, but that's highly likely to happen anyways, and at least our power role is still out there.

So, of the two (AA and Moat) I'm less suspicious of Moat, though that's because of how cool he's playing it and could be a misread.

AA is playing much more defensively. As soon as he had some attention on him, his hackles were raised.

He's a higher risk, higher reward "target" in that he's not responding like a tree would.

This would be an easy call for scum Adahn to make, especially when he's sitting in the middle of an AA vote. Gives him something to point back to with the momentum starting to shift on to Moat, who at this point is...well I can't find if they were starting to split the vote and don't feel like going over 3 pages to count this when I'm gonna count EOD1 votes but it was close I think.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn1986 posted:

I wasn't looking for a softclaim, but I thought I found one and laid off MMT. I have no reason to try and figure out who FG is and dongs has read town to me all game so I didn't examine him closely.

So, what were you doing at the time that made you find the softclaim, and what lead you to present it to the thread rather than just filing it away?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I still think it's Quid and still stand by all the stuff I was saying D4 before I was lynched. Can people try and re-read what I was saying knowing I was coming from a genuine place?

The most damning thing that's occurred in this game (imo) is Quid saying he was suspicious of AA on D2 while clearly trying to push the vote off of him. People need to re-read D2 with the mindset of "if Quid/AA is the scumteam, would his play make sense?" and I feel like it would. And that's not even counting helping drive mislynches on D3/D4 with me/LD.

I feel like the softclaim stuff is being overblown - there isn't really much relevant gameplay that occurred between the start of D4 (where Adahn said I was likely FG) and when I came in and denied it.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Quidnose posted:

I don't like this mindset. I went into today feeling lost but I was like "I gotta figure out who the scum is," while you seem to be saying "I gotta figure out who I can convince people to misdunk." That's...pretty huge, man. Your language seems to show your true intent here.

All I have to say is "Ditto" Quid.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I actually want a specific answer to this, Adahn:

Quidnose posted:

So, what were you doing at the time that made you find the softclaim, and what lead you to present it to the thread rather than just filing it away?

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Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Murmur Twin posted:

I still think it's Quid and still stand by all the stuff I was saying D4 before I was lynched. Can people try and re-read what I was saying knowing I was coming from a genuine place?

The most damning thing that's occurred in this game (imo) is Quid saying he was suspicious of AA on D2 while clearly trying to push the vote off of him. People need to re-read D2 with the mindset of "if Quid/AA is the scumteam, would his play make sense?" and I feel like it would. And that's not even counting helping drive mislynches on D3/D4 with me/LD.

I feel like the softclaim stuff is being overblown - there isn't really much relevant gameplay that occurred between the start of D4 (where Adahn said I was likely FG) and when I came in and denied it.

I was going to come in here and be like "I'm glad MMT is confirmed town because she can tell me if I'm Candaiansing it up" but with you convinced I'm scum that's useless. Please try to read all of this with an open mind and actually look at what I'm saying. I'm concerned right now because I just posted a shitton of stuff and you are commenting on only a single portion of it, which means you are ignoring all of it because you are confirmation biasing your way into a town loss.

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