|
HEY GAIL posted:thrilled yes, horrified no: there's a lot of hand protection with the cup hilt, i just don't really like the spanish quillions I was thinking more along the lines of this being a historical artifact being broken in two to make the weapon.
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 14:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 11:21 |
|
|
Hazzard posted:I was thinking more along the lines of this being a historical artifact being broken in two to make the weapon. as long as the blade is somewhere safe
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 14:39
|
|
|
Hazzard posted:Some interesting facts I learnt. In the 19th century British Army, before some reforms, Officers would use any blade they wanted, as long as it had a regulation hilt. This went as far as one officer attaching a 17th century Spanish Rapier hilt to his saber guard. I'm sure Hey Gal will be simultaneously thrilled and horrified to hear it. Officers actually continued to get their own custom swords throughout the 19th century as well. Remember, officers had to supply all their own equipment. So even though there were plenty of officers who would just go buy the regulation pattern for whatever unit they were in, officers who were more into fencing or had experience fighting in other conflicts (especially in colonial combat in India) would get custom weapons that were often quite different from the regulation pattern. I've seen Wilkinsons that kinda looked like sidesword blades on a saber guard and swords that were made longer and thinner to the point of looking like a rapier. I think establishing the regulation patterns cut down a lot of the sheer diversity of what swords officers would carry, but there was still plenty of customization going on and there weren't any formal prohibitions against it. EDIT: forgot to mention, supposedly the Rebel Yell was like this fierce war cry that everyone was afraid of. Personally, I have serious doubts that this was really "a thing," given the extensive mythologization of the confederate army. I am extremely suspicious of any supposed links to Scotland, because there's nothing people like more than saying dumb poo poo about the Scottish highlands. Grenrow fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
Grenrow posted:Officers actually continued to get their own custom swords throughout the 19th century as well. Remember, officers had to supply all their own equipment. So even though there were plenty of officers who would just go buy the regulation pattern for whatever unit they were in, officers who were more into fencing or had experience fighting in other conflicts (especially in colonial combat in India) would get custom weapons that were often quite different from the regulation pattern. I've seen Wilkinsons that kinda looked like sidesword blades on a saber guard and swords that were made longer and thinner to the point of looking like a rapier. I think establishing the regulation patterns cut down a lot of the sheer diversity of what swords officers would carry, but there was still plenty of customization going on and there weren't any formal prohibitions against it. The thing that seemed weird to me about the rapier example, is the blade and hilt seemed like such a mismatch. I think of Rapiers as having very long blades, which doesn't fit my image of a 19th century officer. Having done taken part in a 30 on 30 melee fight, I suppose representing a scaled down encounter on a battlefield. I don't think it's specifically the yell itself that would scare people, but such an unusual noise, possibly piercing above the general sound of clashing steel and yelling, might instill a fear in someone. I had a brief readthrough of the wikipedia page and it struck me as something that was more to do with motivating the soldiers doing it. You're making a noise, the men next to you are making a noise. You're all making a noise together and that's something unifying as you charge the enemy. To use a different example. I think it's very difficult for people to imagine the fear you'd get from an enemy cavalry charge, with many people severely overestimating how easy it is to stay still when you see people running at you. In the melee I keep harkening back to, when it seemed like the whole enemy team was running at us, many people started stepping backwards, with a minority running forwards towards the enemy to meet them. And this is without anyone even consciously thinking they were going to die, but the animal brain in all of us starts thinking it's life or death. At the beginning of the exercise, we were told to wear light protection, because this was about group tactics and we should pull our blows. Everyone after the first encounter put on as much protective kit as they could, because in the thick of it, we all forgot to pull our blows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
Hazzard posted:The thing that seemed weird to me about the rapier example, is the blade and hilt seemed like such a mismatch. I think of Rapiers as having very long blades, which doesn't fit my image of a 19th century officer. It's not that I doubt that Southern soldiers ever did some kind of war cry, I just don't think it was anything more than the normal concept of soldiers screaming or shouting in a fight. The idea that there was this distinctively blood-curdling yell that Confederate soldiers did which was uniquely terrifying to Yankees strikes me as nonsensical. Seems like a lot of the evidence for it is like, senile old Confederate veterans talking decades after the war (and following decades of Lost Cause mythology being pushed all across the South). Are there accounts of a distinctive war cry being used by Southern units in the Mexican-American War? Seems to me like there ought to be some accounts of this tradition before or after the Civil War, if it was such a well-known tradition. It kinda reminds me of the bullshit "highland charge" thing. Oh, you mean this special tactic of...troops with hand weapons advancing very quickly towards their opponent? This is such a unique and special tactic that it requires its own name? This dude made a whole career of advancing that kind of mythology. Grady McWhiney posted:McWhiney and Forrest McDonald were the authors of the "Celtic Thesis," which holds that most Southerners were of Celtic ancestry (as opposed to Anglo-Saxon), and that all groups he declared to be "Celtic" (Scots-Irish, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Cornish) were descended from warlike herdsmen, in contrast to the peaceful farmers who predominated in England. They attempted to trace numerous ways in which the Celtic culture shaped social, economic and military behavior. For example, they demonstrated that livestock raising (especially of cattle and hogs) developed a more individualistic, militant society than tilling the soil.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
It's pretty well attested to in contemporary letters home and the like, and survivors commentaries afterward. I think it's good to be suspicious of Lost Cause historiography, but generally that suits going to happen on the level of interpretation, not fabrication, if that makes sense. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/history/what-did-the-rebel-yell-sound-like/
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
That's, ugh, quite a reach, tying South to Celts. Anyways, what were the roots of American antisemitism around WWII? And God drat Nazis and their bespoke boutique approach to armored vehicles.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:08
|
|
|
The idea that the confederate campaigns are characterized by extreme gambling and offensive mindset is kind of in itself a lolworthy generalisation given much of the latter half of the war.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
JcDent posted:
More or less what you'd see in Europe. It's a mix of old prejudices dating back to medieval hang ups about people who didn't recognize Jesus as the savior with a heavy helping of out there poo poo like blood libel and them causing the black death, cultural stigmas coming out of catholic usury laws putting proportionally more jews in the position of being lenders, and the more 19th century hang ups about them being a "people apart" who aren't REALLY Americans/German/French/Whatever because of their unique identity as members of the tribes of Israel. It was certainly more subdued in the US than in Europe. You don't have things like the Imperial Russian pogroms or the Dreyfus Affair drawing attention to it, but then chances are you're not going to advance too far up the ranks in the military as a Jew in 1920.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:34
|
|
|
JcDent posted:That's, ugh, quite a reach, tying South to Celts. Yeah, you can pretty much laugh and ignore someone any time they try to draw a straight line between two groups of people living 1000 years apart. I mean, gently caress, it's hard enough to do that where you don't even have to wave your hands about immigrants and the like. It's akin to saying Gustavus Adolphus was successful because of his warlike Viking blood. In a more specific example, it's also the same mistake that is made by people trying to generalize about German culture based on Martin Luther and draw a direct line to Hitler.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:37
|
|
|
the JJ posted:It's pretty well attested to in contemporary letters home and the like, and survivors commentaries afterward. I think it's good to be suspicious of Lost Cause historiography, but generally that suits going to happen on the level of interpretation, not fabrication, if that makes sense. But I am talking about interpretation, not fabrication. Interpreting "soldiers doing a war cry to get hyped up and scare the enemy as they move forward" as some kind of distinctive Southern tradition is taking a common military thing and turning it into something so unique people are speculating about whether they got it from the Jacobites. Most of these sources I'm looking at about it are from people decades after the fact. It seems like any times Southern soldiers ever shouted, cheered, or whooped, it gets elevated and described as "The Rebel Yell," which is supposedly a singular tradition that was known and performed all across the disparate regions that made up the Confederacy. Again, I'm not trying to argue that there were no Southern war cries or that you can't find civil war accounts of Union troops saying "we were scared when the enemy was yelling at us." But these sources alleging that it's this completely unique thing are all looking like poo poo written or recorded decades after the fact. That video you posted is from the 1930s. Those guys are at least in their seventies by the time this video was made. Looking at some of the guys on the wikipedia page about it is pretty hilarious. They have some dude named S. Waite Rawls from a Confederate museum talking about it, who has this to say about the Confederacy. Some fucker posted:The other thing is to convince the general public that the Confederacy and racism are not synonymous terms. In the past 25 years the general public has been putting those two together. When they come here, we tend to open their eyes. The same fucker posted:The association of the Confederacy with racism “is a new phenomenon, and it’s a phenomenon that will pass,” he said. Who could have imagined that the Confederate south might be linked to racism? What a crazy recent phenomenon! This is definitely a guy to trust when talking about Confederate history.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:49
|
|
Disinterested posted:The idea that the confederate campaigns are characterized by extreme gambling and offensive mindset is kind of in itself a lolworthy generalisation given much of the latter half of the war. *stashes orders in cigar box, forgets*
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:50
|
|
|
Grenrow posted:But I am talking about interpretation, not fabrication. Interpreting "soldiers doing a war cry to get hyped up and scare the enemy as they move forward" as some kind of distinctive Southern tradition is taking a common military thing and turning it into something so unique people are speculating about whether they got it from the Jacobites. Most of these sources I'm looking at about it are from people decades after the fact. It seems like any times Southern soldiers ever shouted, cheered, or whooped, it gets elevated and described as "The Rebel Yell," which is supposedly a singular tradition that was known and performed all across the disparate regions that made up the Confederacy. Again, I'm not trying to argue that there were no Southern war cries or that you can't find civil war accounts of Union troops saying "we were scared when the enemy was yelling at us." But these sources alleging that it's this completely unique thing are all looking like poo poo written or recorded decades after the fact. That video you posted is from the 1930s. Those guys are at least in their seventies by the time this video was made. I think it's less some historical southernism, more some thing the soldiers started doing? Like, marines say hoah or Oprah or whatever gently caress, Japanese martial arts guys go oss, hoplites had the paean. They weren't born with that but they could learn it in training or more likely when the regiment next on the line starts up. It's important to note that the civil war did see a fair few charges, especially early on. Well before you've got lost cause poo poo going you've got union soldiers making fun of that thing the rebs do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:57
|
|
|
Also any group of dudes left together long enough will invent all sorts of weird traditions and superstitions. I played baseball when I was a teen and my first year the oldest dude on the team made up a pregame ritual to get everyone hyped up. By my last year it had evolved into some kind of sacred rite that had to be performed precisely the same way before every game otherwise people got upset and nervous that we had offended the baseball gods or something The rebel yell was probably just a weird noise some confederate made during an early battle that grew from there... Like a meme on the internet
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:17
|
|
|
Grenrow posted:But I am talking about interpretation, not fabrication. Interpreting "soldiers doing a war cry to get hyped up and scare the enemy as they move forward" as some kind of distinctive Southern tradition is taking a common military thing and turning it into something so unique people are speculating about whether they got it from the Jacobites. Most of these sources I'm looking at about it are from people decades after the fact. It seems like any times Southern soldiers ever shouted, cheered, or whooped, it gets elevated and described as "The Rebel Yell," which is supposedly a singular tradition that was known and performed all across the disparate regions that made up the Confederacy. if enough guys read it in newspapers, it's a thing even if it hadn't been before
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
Let's talk about the Third Battle of Ypres some more. (First post) How Do You Solve A Problem Like Messines Ridge, or, Let's Dig A Gigantic loving Hole So, here's one of the good parts about starting to plan an offensive in January 1915 and then getting it delayed two and a half years; you can do some really epic poo poo. This, as ever, is a problem of high ground, and the Germans sitting firmly on top of it with a very large pair of binoculars. Messines Ridge is a long terrain feature just to the south of Ypres, an entirely unremarkable pimple by the standards of anywhere else in the world, and a veritable mountain by the standards of Flanders. In early 1916 it was identified as a key to unlocking the Ypres salient, affording just enough static observation back into the German rear to support a breakout in the southern end of the bulge. Enter the Tunnelling Companies. The ground under Ypres is mostly damp-but-firm clay. Bad for most things. Perfect for a highly-specialised group of men, based around a nucleus of civilian miners who had worked on enlarging the London Underground and the Manchester sewer system. The Germans thought mining in Flanders so impossible that when in late 1914 an observer saw mining equipment being brought forward, a German engineer officer had a noticeboard put up with words roughly to the effect of "No use trying to dig here, Tommy. We've tried it. Can't be done." (I am not making this up.) They reckoned without clay-kickers. A clay-kicker is exactly what he sounds like; you send him down a mine on an angled wooden back-board, and point him feet-first at where you want your tunnel to go. The clay-kicker then methodically kicks out the clay from the wall, and the spoil is removed, very quietly, with shovels. No nasty rocks for picks and shovels to go *ping* on and give away your positition! By mid-1917 they'd gone several hundred yards forward and had over 20 tunnels located pleasingly close to the suspected location of German deep command dugouts. And while it'd be an exaggeration to say that the enemy was completely unaware, they certainly had no idea of the extent of the tunnels. The Battle of Messines is really a very odd one to categorise among the major BEF actions. On the one hand, it was a complete success, achieving all its objectives with a favourable casualty ratio. It was very well planned by Second Army boss General Plumer as a bite-and-hold offensive with limited and reasonable aims. All manner of lessons had been learned from the past, from burying telephone cables deep enough to resist assaults from both German listening equipment and German artillery shells, to the extensive use of low-flying aircraft patrols to camouflage the sound of tank engines approaching the front just before dawn. But, in a wider strategic sense, it seems to have been a massive blunder, a hasty stroke which appeared successful and then went badly astray. Gallipoli All Over Again One of the questions I was planning to have a go at answering for the blog is "why the hell did they allow such a long gap between the end of Messines and the start of Third Ypres proper?" As it is, I can't answer it. I'm away from most of my books and the ones I have here never engage with that particular question. So I can't understand it, and it seems to absolutely beggar belief that Haig did not see a problem with launching an operation that would only make sense as a prelude to a big push out of the Ypres salient nearly two months before the actual Big Push. The need for some kind of time lag to allow for the redirection of supplies, I can get my head round. But the length of the delay seems entirely disproportionate. Messines ended on the 14th of June; the bombardment (more about that later) began on the 16th of July, and men went over the top for Third Ypres on the 31st, fifteen days later (including the inevitable delay for weather). Remember how Winston Churchill sent some ships to bombard the forts defending the Dardanelles in late 1914, several months before beginning a sustained effort to force the strait with ships alone, and achieved nothing other than tipping off the Ottomans that they should be worried about an attack in that quarter? Gallipoli all over again. And then a fifteen-day overwhelming bombardment to precede the offensive! When the attack was being planned Haig was advised correctly (for once) by his intelligence that the Ypres salient was being garrisoned by poor-quality German troops. By the time the BEF finally pulled its finger out and attacked, they had all been put into reserve and replaced by more experienced men who had been transferred out of the Champagne area. It makes no sense, and I can't find anyone even trying to explain it. Gough and Hunter-Bunter Let us now discuss two personnel decisions; one shite one, and one exceedingly worrying one that actually ended up being for the best. The shite one would be the appointment of General Hubert Gough as the primary commander of the offensive, which is nothing so much as a demonstration of Haig's unfortunate tendency to want to have his cake and eat it too. I spent a lot of time complaining during the run-up to the Somme about optimism and setting objectives that were far beyond the ability of the men to carry out, in which army commander Rawlinson spent a lot of time being admonished about pessimism and the unsuitability of bite and hold to the offensive. Now we find Haig, a fully converted bite-and-hold supporter, appointing a headstrong cavalryman (Gough) to an offensive which was never planned with a breakthrough in mind (the Germans had a strong fallback position already dug out several miles behind the front, too far back to be attacked in a day or even a week). And what do we find now? Staff officers trying to square the circle of Haig apparently insisting on "limited, step-by-step offensives" while appointing a commander who is instructing them to plan for advances of double the most optimistic daily advance that Rawlinson or Plumer had ever planned for in a bite and hold battle. They never did manage to figure that one out; and despite being well aware that Gough was going into business for himself, Haig contented himself with offering his subordinate frequent words of "advice" while not actually exercising command. He's not a thousand miles away in India! He's in a chateau up the road! Give him a soddin order already! Anyway. The eventual plan, a couple of months down the road, is to advance to Roulers and capture the railway line, and then hit the Germans with a one-two punch of a French-Belgian advance up the coast between Dixmude and Nieuport, and amphibious British landings somewhere near Ostend in the German rear. What this meant was that Haig needed a British general with experience of amphibious landings, and so one Aylmer "Blooding The Pups" "What Do I Care For Casualties" "I Can't Even Do My Daily Exercises Without Self-Defenestrating" Hunter-Weston was pulled away from his corps command (most recent result, the infamous attack on Beaumont Hamel on the first day on the Somme) and put in charge of "Operation Hush (Here Comes A loving Idiot)" instead. This actually turned out a Good Thing; since they never made it anywhere near Roulers, the amphibious attacks didn't go ahead, and Hunter-Weston remained quarantined in that job until summer 1918, well away from where he might have made a bollocks of anything critically important for a third time. So, you know, small mercies. In Summary And so, having received a rather polite RSVP to a bring-your-own-high-explosive party on the Gheluvelt Plateau, on July 30th 1917 we find the German army waiting and ready, if rather deafened and knocked about. In some ways they're far more ready to oppose Third Ypres than they were to oppose the Battle of the Somme. Isn't that great. But, you know, chin up, nil desperandum. Are we down'earted? No! And anyway, Sammy Scaff got more notice, two full months' worth, that he was going to get punched by Mike Tyson, and that didn't do his nose a single bit of good... When I can be bothered: Let's actually talk about the actual battle! Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 19:36
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:The Germans thought mining in Flanders so impossible that when in late 1914 an observer saw mining equipment being brought forward, a German engineer officer had a noticeboard put up with words roughly to the effect of "No use trying to dig here, Tommy. We've tried it. Can't be done." (I am not making this up.) HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:on the one hand that is an excellent point, but on the other hand even if it began as bullshit at the time, if enough people on both sides believe in it it can become real One interesting non-milhist phenomena is devil worship among teens in the eighties and nineties. There's basically no evidence of devil worship being ever a thing among teens, except for cases where teens read about that poo poo because various Christian groups talked about it and figured out it sounds rad as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
the JJ posted:marines say Oprah This is my new favorite autocorrect 
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:So, in my admittedly stereotyped experience, the inhabitants of "the Germanosphere" are perfectionist as heck. (They're not workaholics, that's something we think about them that isn;t true.) Why wouldn't they keep trying? All the big cities in both the Second Reich and the AHE have sewers and plenty of them have subways, it's not like they don't have institutional knowledge. Plus some of the biggest ones are built on land that is not exactly suited to digging under. Berlin's basically a swamp if you get more than a foot below the surface, which contributes to how relatively shallow the Berlin U-Bahn sits under the surface. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
I'm far more inclined to believe the rebel yell is something they picked up from natives than it being some hundred year old vestige of the Jacobite risings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:So, in my admittedly stereotyped experience, the inhabitants of "the Germanosphere" are perfectionist as heck. (They're not workaholics, that's something we think about them that isn;t true.) Why wouldn't they keep trying? All the big cities in both the Second Reich and the AHE have sewers and plenty of them have subways, it's not like they don't have institutional knowledge. I think we have a confluence of factors at work here. 1). How well do Germans know clay? IIRC, Berlin's sand over rock. The ground under Ypres isn't just clay, it's extremely similar to London clay. These fellas knew exactly what they were working with. 2). That winter was particularly wet and miserable and it's entirely possible that the German engineers quickly formed a false opinion on how feasible serious tunnelling operations would be, and so never considered seriously trying the kinds of heavy-duty water-pumping and drainage efforts that were required to stop the mines from flooding. 2). Even in 1917 the BEF is a weedy little organisation with only a million and a half men, holding a tiny area of front compared to the German army. From late 1914 to early 1918 the Germans considered the Ypres salient a backwater fit only for local attacks and skirmishing, and so it often had a very low priority for resources; they preferred to concentrate their efforts further south and west. In 1915 their main worries are Champagne and Artois, in 1916 Verdun and the Somme, in early 1917 Artois again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
TerminalSaint posted:I'm far more inclined to believe the rebel yell is something they picked up from natives than it being some hundred year old vestige of the Jacobite risings. Yeah. I haven't really done any reading to it but pretty much every time I've seen it referred to or when it is portrated in media it sounds like what you would think of as a typical Natime American warcry, high-pitched whooping and ululating. It probably got the attention because it was distinct from the warcries of northern units (which I think I've seen referred to as a deep yell basically, something like "hoorah" and those kinds of shots), and those kinds of high-pitched yells can actually be pretty disconcerting when its enough people doing it at high volume. That's probably it. As for why Confederate soldiers did it. I would guess that it just started with some soldiers and then spread from there as it gained in popularity. I think alot of Cherokees fought for the South in the Civil War, one even making it to general, though that's probably a far too straight-forward and likely an incorrect origin of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 22:11
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:So, in my admittedly stereotyped experience, the inhabitants of "the Germanosphere" are perfectionist as heck. (They're not workaholics, that's something we think about them that isn;t true.) Why wouldn't they keep trying? All the big cities in both the Second Reich and the AHE have sewers and plenty of them have subways, it's not like they don't have institutional knowledge. This also leads to a very German belief, which is that if a German can't do it or has tried and failed, it's not possible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:This also leads to a very German belief, which is that if a German can't do it or has tried and failed, it's not possible. Lmao tru. Unearned self-confidence is to me the defining germanism
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 23:51
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:Lmao tru. Unearned self-confidence is to me the defining germanism
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
Grenrow posted:It kinda reminds me of the bullshit "highland charge" thing. Oh, you mean this special tactic of...troops with hand weapons advancing very quickly towards their opponent? This is such a unique and special tactic that it requires its own name? This dude made a whole career of advancing that kind of mythology. Holy crap this is one of the biggest piles of poo poo I've ever read about the Civil War including the Lost Cause.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
Eela6 posted:have you met people from LA the difference is that we're correct full disclosure: we know we're a bunch of sleazy drunken scumbags, but damned if we'll admit it to the world vvv: I assure you we are sleazier than p. much anyone else Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Aug 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
Eela6 posted:have you met people from That stereotype is unsurprisingly common all over the world
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 04:22
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:Holy crap this is one of the biggest piles of poo poo I've ever read about the Civil War including the Lost Cause. Imagine living in an era where you could write hack garbage nonsense like this and not only become a professional historian, but a famous and well-respected one.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 04:25
|
|
|
Grenrow posted:Imagine living in an era where you could write hack garbage nonsense like this and not only become a professional historian, but a famous and well-respected one. What, like today?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 04:32
|
|
|
Grenrow posted:Imagine living in an era where you could write hack garbage nonsense like this and not only become a professional historian, but a famous and well-respected one. That quote's implication that HIghland culture was more 'individualistic" than English is making me inordinately mad. Prior to 1715 and even for some time after the fifteen much of the land in the highlands was governed by the custom of duthchas, in which Clans owned territory collectively. Many feuds are also attributable to to the inherent collective tendencies of extended kinship systems. If someone in your clan murders a neighbor, in a legal sense you are equally responsible, even if you had nothing to do with it. Similarly any affront to your Clan is an affront on yourself, and you are expected to behave as such. Squalid fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Aug 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
We could go deeper, like Nial Ferguson writing the foreword for a new edition of a World Lit Only By Fire.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
JcDent posted:We could go deeper, like Nial Ferguson writing the foreword for a new edition of a World Lit Only By Fire. Because of this thread, I feel an involuntary twitch of rage when I see Nial Ferguson receiving anything but scorn. Vincent Van Goatse posted:What, like today? So you're saying that I can make money just making poo poo up with a history degree? As if I needed more incentive to go for one.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
Don Gato posted:So you're saying that I can make money just making poo poo up with a history degree? As if I needed more incentive to go for one. From what I can tell the degree is optional
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 06:00
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:Holy crap this is one of the biggest piles of poo poo I've ever read about the Civil War including the Lost Cause. Dude's name is McWhiney, he literally was born to write "we didn't actually lose" mythology for the confederacy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 06:17
|
|
|
Don Gato posted:Because of this thread, I feel an involuntary twitch of rage when I see Nial Ferguson receiving anything but scorn. Is he the "colonialism was actually cool and good, and all those brown people should be grateful for White Civilization"-guy, or am I thinking of someone else?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 06:23
|
|
|
Comrade Koba posted:Is he the "colonialism was actually cool and good, and all those brown people should be grateful for White Civilization"-guy, or am I thinking of someone else? He had a very long article on BBC's website that can be summed up as "Britain should have stayed out of WWI and if it did it would be the biggest superpower evar", and in general he has a massive boner for the British Empire. Not sure about hating brown people in general but it wouldn't surprise me. Also one of HEYGAL's friends tossed all his poo poo out of a 3rd story apartment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
Tossing poo poo out a window: still the best means of conflict resolution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 06:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 11:21 |
|
|
Don Gato posted:He had a very long article on BBC's website that can be summed up as "Britain should have stayed out of WWI and if it did it would be the biggest superpower evar", and in general he has a massive boner for the British Empire. Not sure about hating brown people in general but it wouldn't surprise me. It hurts just reading that argument. It somehow ignores completely that Britain getting involved in European politics on a much more active level helped stoke the fires that caused World War I in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 08:08
|
|
