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iceyman
Jul 11, 2001

I've admittedly never seen a drag king or show. While I'm not very interested in the idea, I'm not opposed to them either. They just don't seem to resonate the same or work as well as a reversal of the drag queen which itself is very counter culture.

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criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it
RuPaul is not a drag king or a faux queen so why on earth would she just a show about them? Besides Michelle Visage is the biggest faux queen around so what's the point.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

criscodisco posted:

RuPaul is not a drag king or a faux queen so why on earth would she just a show about them? Besides Michelle Visage is the biggest faux queen around so what's the point.

rupaul is the biggest drag queen around so what's the point

iceyman
Jul 11, 2001

They could have a drag king pair-up challenge for funsies. And Ru had an entire other show devoted to faux queens and there have been several faux queen challenges.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

Cocks Cable posted:

They could have a drag king pair-up challenge for funsies. And Ru had an entire other show devoted to faux queens and there have been several faux queen challenges.

that was a makeover show that wasn't a competition for professional faux queens

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it

Troposphere posted:

rupaul is the biggest drag queen around so what's the point

Because Ru is ready to pass down the crown whereas Michelle will take her to the grave.

I suppose I just feel like maybe people should stop trying to link everything together like drag queens must be inclusive of all things with "drag" or "queen" when in reality it's not as if any of the 3 mentioned categories run in the same circles too often.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?
faux queens absolutely run in the same circle as drag queens when they're not run off for not being gay men :shrug:

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

Troposphere posted:

he said faux queens would never be on the show either which I think is kind of dumb

hmm yes let's let straight people co-opt our culture more than they already have

> show highlighting a unique aspect of gay culture

> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE STRAIGHTS?!

:fuckoff:

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it
Exactly, the run off part. I've never known a drag queen who didn't find most faux queens a bit like the obsessed kid in high school who follows you around liking everything you like.

No insult intended to faux queens, and I adore my drag queen friends, but let's not pretend they're a bunch of inclusive, hand-holding types except with other queens. And even with other queens not so much.

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it
Also everything Nostalgia just said right above me

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

hmm yes let's let straight people co-opt our culture more than they already have

> show highlighting a unique aspect of gay culture

> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE STRAIGHTS?!

:fuckoff:

I'm a lesbian and most faux queens I've known have been lesbians or bi

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?
gay culture likes to forget that lesbians and bi women exist though so that's par for the course

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING
:nallears:

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it
It's not that we forget y'all exist we just don't want our kids seeing it

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?
believe me I have very little care in me for the straights

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

I saw you telling me to shut up you sassy sass you can't hide from my lesbian eyes, we see everything

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!
I went to a show/competition Bianca hosted a couple years back, and it included a drag king that made me feel feelings that scared and confused me. Additionally, an old childhood friend of mine rocks the drag king thing pretty dang hard back out east. I think he's trans, but as Ru said the one time that came up, that doesn't loving matter, nor should it.

I'm really disappointed that the more I hear from and about Ru, the more of a d-bag he sounds like. The tone-deafness of that parting comment in the video astounds me. Like, no, Ru, having a girl dress up and perform manly doesn't detract from the irony in nearly the same way that having a dude saying "females don't belong here" does. Christ, even Dana White came down off from his misogynistic horse, eventually.

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it
I just like to watch the fun show with the glamorous ladies and spend an hour not worrying about who hasn't been invited to the party.

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

criscodisco posted:

I just like to watch the fun show with the glamorous ladies and spend an hour not worrying about who hasn't been invited to the party.

That's kind of my point. I like the show and it seems best to isolate it from the auxiliary drama.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?
the only issue I could see with drag kings being on the show is they'd have to have certain challenges for either of them and different songs which could be difficult. faux queens wouldn't really have that problem.

I really wish drag kings would break out into the mainstream, they have as rich a history as drag queens. it'd be cool for logo to invest in a separate series for them, or even a one off special, I think it would inspire a whole new generation of lgbt women to get into it like drag race did for lgbt men (and trans ladies). they honestly just need more exposure, but logo probably doesn't want to take the risk

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer
I would actually be super interested in seeing some drag kings but I have to admit I don't really see how that would work into Drag Race as it exists currently. Are queens competing against kings? If so, that seems to confer a serious advantage to one or the other side for some challenges/lip syncs. I could see an episode or even a special season of Drag Race where queens and kings compete as couples in challenges designed for couples (not permanent pairings, shuffled around each week?), but that just seems like a fundamentally different kind of show.

e: welp

Trig Discipline fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Sep 5, 2016

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

Trig Discipline posted:

I would actually be super interested in seeing some drag kings but I have to admit I don't really see how that would work into Drag Race as it exists currently. Are queens competing against kings? If so, that seems to confer a serious advantage to one or the other side for some challenges/lip syncs. I could see an episode or even a special season of Drag Race where queens and kings compete as couples in challenges designed for couples (not permanent pairings, shuffled around each week?), but that just seems like a fundamentally different kind of show.

they could antm boys in the house it and not gonna lie I'd pay a lot of money to see that

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it
Well it's not like drag kings came into being in the 90s. If there were enough people clamoring to watch them, they would have a show.

I think the general concensus is that for the most part there's no sense of whimsy with drag kings, like there is with the queens. It's not compelling television.

Anyway, this is a silly argument. This is Ru's show and she worked her rear end off to get it, let her decide who she wants to highlight. Her judgement got her this far.

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

I'm becom-, I'm becom-,
I'm becoming
Tana in, Tana in my mind.


Me checking the forums right before going to bed and seeing that there's 25 new posts:


:v:

I'd love to see a Drag King show, but I wouldn't want Ru to do it. There's already enough forced-conformity with the judging, I don't necessarily trust the Ru Crew to handle it properly.

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING
Maybe it's because the only drag shows I've been to have been in flyover states but... I don't think I've ever seen an "entertaining" drag king. I mean I don't want to diminish anything but every king I've seen perform was:
- drawn on beard
- jeans and button up or a sport jacket
- lip-syncing to Justin Timberlake

It just doesn't do anything for me :(

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer
Well this image:



Was in the article, which is pretty dang impressive.

I haven't seen a single drag king performance so I'm not going to venture an opinion on what's actually out there, but I can see how it could potentially be very entertaining.

shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO


Santino's FauxQueen Showcase should be the next spinoff. Khloe Kardashian as the Michelle Visage. $1,000 grand prize furnished by A NON GMO COTTON FEMININE PRODUCTS COMPANY!!!!

Combed Thunderclap
Jan 4, 2011



I'd love to see Drag Race with drag kings/faux queens! :dance:

I also don't trust Ru to do it, though, sadly enough. :/

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!
The one I mentioned in the contest Bianca hosted, he did a sultry manly number as he worked his way down a staircase, like a skinny Don Draper.

I really wanted to compliment him but felt too shy. At the bar a bit later, somebody else complimented him and he looked so genuinely touched that I felt bad for being such an awkward goon about it.

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer

Propaganda Machine posted:

I really wanted to compliment him but felt too shy. At the bar a bit later, somebody else complimented him and he looked so genuinely touched that I felt bad for being such an awkward goon about it.

I did this same thing at the drag contest I went to in Austin. There were a couple of performances that rank among those "I will literally never forget that as long as I live" memories and I really wanted to tell them how amazing it was but I felt like they'd be "oh great so I've got the fat straight middle aged uncool guy demo locked down, I'm hosed".

big black turnout
Jan 13, 2009



Fallen Rib
also part of what works about drag race is catty gay men being catty. nobody wants to watch a drag king show to see exciting behind the scenes footage of who's moving into whose house at the end of the season

tote up a bags
Jun 8, 2006

die stoats die

I'm pretty sure the main reasons REALLY is that Ru isn't a drag king and wouldn't really know how to judge etc and he will not be seen as anything but all knowing at all times on HIS show.

criscodisco
Feb 18, 2004

do it

big black turnout posted:

also part of what works about drag race is catty gay men being catty. nobody wants to watch a drag king show to see exciting behind the scenes footage of who's moving into whose house at the end of the season

Lmao way too accurate.

Nihonniboku
Aug 11, 2004

YOU CAN FLY!!!

tranten posted:

I'm gonna watch this show forever and will always love it, but what are your guys' opinions on drag kings? It seems like Ru doesn't like them, or at least doesn't think they're drag.

Dear Drag Race: It's Time to Let Kings Compete

Landon is local to me, and this is an issue my friends and I are interested in.

Sounds cool. Seems like it's time he puts his own funds and community together and get a series started. Do a web series if you can't sell it to a network. If it's popular enough, maybe it will eventually be picked up by a network, we're in a golden age right now of people doing this very thing.

But attempting to latch on to RuPaul's Drag Race just isn't the way to do this. That's just not the brand. The brand is gay men impersonating women. It's what Ru has built his career on. Why would Ru be the one to do a Drag King show? What's his authority on the subject? What is his experience? The day RuPaul hosts a Drag King competition show is the day that the drag king community protests Ru being involved in any way in the first place.

The article was clickbait, and Landon knows it. I don't believe for a second that his goal is to compete alongside Alaska Thunderfuck and be judged for what he does by RuPaul. This was merely an attempt to get more exposure for himself by maligning a much bigger name as discriminatory. It's opportunistic, and dirty.

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

hmm yes let's let straight people co-opt our culture more than they already have

> show highlighting a unique aspect of gay culture

> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE STRAIGHTS?!

:fuckoff:

Thank you.

Propaganda Machine posted:

I'm really disappointed that the more I hear from and about Ru, the more of a d-bag he sounds like.

I think people expect RuPaul to be Mama Ru at all times, when in reality off camera, RuPaul has been doing this for 30 years. 30 years ago it was a political statement just to be an out gay man. Think about what a gently caress you to society it is to be an out gay man dressing as a woman. RuPaul is punk as gently caress, and let's not forget that, regardless of the Klein Epstein and Parker suit he is wearing.

Nihonniboku fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Sep 5, 2016

Watrick
Mar 15, 2007

C:enter:###

big black turnout posted:

also part of what works about drag race is catty gay men being catty. nobody wants to watch a drag king show to see exciting behind the scenes footage of who's moving into whose house at the end of the season

Don't forget about the scenes when all the kings would compare their softball and Birkenstock collections. Each commercial would be for U-haul too.

Ru seems to stake a hard stance about issues when the show is attacked. After the she-mail poo poo it became pretty apparent. The hug-box mentality seems to be the complete opposite of queens. I expect and want my drag queens to be raunchy, perverse, politically incorrect. It's an exaggeration -- pantomime even. So, while she-mail is offensive, it's also a drat funny play on a show that makes every attempt to interject the words 'she' and 'her' into as many other words as possible. It seems that everything is alright with something on the show, or with queens (that's been being done for years), and suddenly the delicate sensibilities of people have been raped, and defenses go up.

With that, I can only wonder if the statements regarding kings by Ru isn't him being a dick, but rather looking at this from what and how he knows the scene. Lesbians traditionally have been way more accepted than gay men, for example (you know, it's hot to watch 2 chicks do it, but 2 "fags" is disgustin').

I don't know how I personally feel. Both sides seem to have valid points.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?
errrr lesbians being sexualized by straight men doesn't mean we're more accepted. a gross sexualized fantasy porn version is not how things actually are and if you don't fit that ideal(for example, if you're butch or even just not conventionally attractive) you get a ton of poo poo

angerbeet
Mar 23, 2004


I've been to a bunch of Drag King shows, and we used to have competitions for both for Pride when I lived in Halifax (they have one of those hosed up court systems which means an Emperor and Empress and dukes etc.)

Personally I think Kings have come a long way, just like Queens have, and there is a growing batch of really creative people - it's not all Elvis impersonation and Justin Timberlake. TBH it's a good societal mirror to the attitudes of masculine gender presentation.

IMO now that Drag Race is getting money from VH1, LOGO would be wise to try something like "Landon Cider's King for a Day" or whatever.

It'd beat the poo poo out of their other programming, I mean we all saw the clips of their Prince Charming guy gaping his rear end in a top hat with a shampoo bottle and sucking cum out of condons. You've got no other programming!

Deathlove
Feb 20, 2003

Pillbug
https://twitter.com/katya_zamo/status/772833133519437825

angerbeet posted:

It'd beat the poo poo out of their other programming, I mean we all saw the clips of their Prince Charming guy gaping his rear end in a top hat with a shampoo bottle and sucking cum out of condons. You've got no other programming!

...wait what

RICKON WALNUTSBANE
Jun 13, 2001


The controversy that got "you got she-mail" pulled was a stupid "Female or Shemale" mini-challenge on s6e4 followed by Ru tweeting a bunch of dumb poo poo when some viewers weren't happy about it. Maybe Ru was some subversive punk drag iconoclast 25 years ago but she's the definition of drag establishment now. And drag Oprah isn't interested in being challenged or changing her brand

eta:

angerbeet posted:

It'd beat the poo poo out of their other programming, I mean we all saw the clips of their Prince Charming guy gaping his rear end in a top hat with a shampoo bottle and sucking cum out of condons. You've got no other programming!

no, no we have not

RICKON WALNUTSBANE fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Sep 5, 2016

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shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO


Leave Ru alone. You people took airplay of her song "Tranny Chaser" away from her. She spent minutes, minutes writing that and it was on the verge of going mainstream.

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