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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


willroc7 posted:

I connected it briefly to my coffee lake desktop but it wouldn't even recognize it as a samsung SSD. It just said unrecognized device under device manager so I gave up on that.

ok well, that would have been good to know. redo from the start on that machine. if it's not recognized in the bios or with the samsung software in windows it's a bad drive, send it back. if it can be recognized try the reset and clean options on that one.


BobHoward posted:

The 224 bytes extra per page are what’s intended to be used for error correction. If you multiply things out, that means our nominally 16Gib part actually stores 16.875 Gib (binary gigabits) or ~18.12 Gb in decimal.

To return to the earlier topic, I think that before TLC it was standard to have powers-of-2 counts of blocks per plane and pages per block, for the same reasons why DRAM chips have power of 2 X and Y dimensions (treating the data bus width of the DRAM chip as a third Z dimension). I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if plane internals other than the page size are still powers of 2 today, it may just be the total number of planes per die that’s not a power of 2.

Cool beans. Extra bits for ecc is an obvious thing I wish I'd thought of as a thing that consumes space without being usable. Another thing: SSDs need space to store their mapping of drive CHS to flash pages -- that's gotta be in the flash itself doesn't it? So I gotta say I think I'm wrong about dies being decimal rather than binary gibibits, but it still may be a fair bit less over provision than a simple total capacity of dies minus windows formatted size result.

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Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Now why in tarnation do dell nvme u.2 devices send NMIs upon failure


Guys, hot swappable storage is not supposed to produce a crash upon failure, but rather just signal degraded/broken status. Like, if you don't initialize, just fail and get out if the way. There's no reason to crash the system or prevent startup with an NMI.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



NVMe is hot swappable?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




ItBreathes posted:

NVMe is hot swappable?

Anything is if you're courageous enough.

stevewm
May 10, 2005


ItBreathes posted:

NVMe is hot swappable?

U.2 NVMe is supposed to be.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Sounds like you need a pcie switch with downstream port containment

Also pcie is hot pluggable which is why the presence fingers are a bit shorter than the rest on most cards. So they contact last to tell the slot something is there and turn on power when everything ~should~ be in place.

Can still get a little dodgy.

U.2 is especially hot pluggable because the drives being on rails in most enclosures keeps everything nicely aligned.

M.2, lol no

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



priznat posted:

Sounds like you need a pcie switch with downstream port containment


Hot plugging on away right now as we speak on my microsemi switch bro

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

WhyteRyce posted:

Hot plugging on away right now as we speak on my microsemi switch bro

Hell yes!

willroc7
Jul 24, 2006

BADGES? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGES!


I was able to complete the cloning operation successfully with a new 860 evo. I booted to macrium reflect's rescue media and cloned from there, removing the old drive and using the same connections for the new one. I think I'm going to RMA the old one. I've already spent a ton of time trying to fix it. Thanks for all the input from the thread.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

RMA sounds like a perfectly reasonable response to that drive. Sure, maybe it was something you did, but given it was their software and their hardware, it's on them one way or the other.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



I bought a cheap 256GB WD SN500 for my parents' NUC, booted the system from the old drive plugged into a USB caddy, used the free version of True Image that is locked to WD drives to move the Windows 10 install across, took 10 minutes, A++ would use again.

Wasn't expecting Windows to boot fine from USB to be honest but the old install was a UEFI one on a GPT disk so maybe that makes a difference.

Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001


ItBreathes posted:

NVMe is hot swappable?

The newest Intel NVMe SSDs I have come in 2.5" form-factor and use 12 Gb SAS3 connectors. They appear to be hot swappable. They use the same quick-release caddies all the other drives use.

The drives do not appear to the system as regular SSDs (they show up as /dev/nvme0n1, etc.).

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Xenomorph posted:

The newest Intel NVMe SSDs I have come in 2.5" form-factor and use 12 Gb SAS3 connectors. They appear to be hot swappable. They use the same quick-release caddies all the other drives use.

The drives do not appear to the system as regular SSDs (they show up as /dev/nvme0n1, etc.).

nvme controllers and namespaces show up under /dev/nvme*

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Also don't try hotplugging on a client level motherboard

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





I'm rapidly running out of space. I have my old rear end 840 evo 250 gig that keeps my OS and prioritized games, and a 1T spindrive for everything else (I imagine that's what they'll call HDDs in the cyberpunk future). This is the most sold 1T SSD (that's not a kingston) in my preferred store, is this anything? And is there any problems mixing SATA drives and PCIe drives?

https://www.komplett.no/product/109...660p-1tb-m2-ssd

Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Jan 22, 2020

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

The 660p is an ok drive for mass storage--I wouldn't suggest it for an OS drive. Compared to most others, it is a "space over performance" drive, but if you're just running Steam folders off it, that probably won't matter much. I'd also take a look at the WD Blue SSD line, and the ADATA XPG 8200 Pro if you can find them available. Both have better performance, and in the US at least are competitive price-wise.

But if the 660p is cheaper by a noticeable amount, yeah, it's fine for running games off of.

e; playing mix-and-match between PCIe and SATA SSDs is fine. Ideally you'd want your OS drive to be a PCIe NVMe one for best performance, but it's not going to be THAT much of a difference.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Black Griffon posted:

I'm rapidly running out of space. I have my old rear end 840 evo 250 gig that keeps my OS and prioritized games, and a 1T spindrive for everything else (I imagine that's what they'll call HDDs in the cyberpunk future). This is the most sold 1T SSD (that's not a kingston) in my preferred store, is this anything? And is there any problems mixing SATA drives and PCIe drives?

https://www.komplett.no/product/109...660p-1tb-m2-ssd

The 660p is a QLC drive, aka 4 bits per cell. That has some down sides and as DrDork says it's best as a games or non-OS drive.

I'd get another regular sata drive just because that's got more flexibility, while the 660p is a better choice for people who already have a good primary SSD. The MX500 and WD blue are both available in your store. And you can easily clone your current OS install over to the new drive.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





Ah, that looks perfect, at least if a PCIe drive is only nicer and not obligatory. Are there any concrete differences between your two suggestions?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


You could argue that there isn't much differnce in the big benchmarks between those drives

https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2215?vs=2166

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Black Griffon posted:

Ah, that looks perfect, at least if a PCIe drive is only nicer and not obligatory.

A normal NVMe drive is faster than sata, but how noticeable that is in day-to-day can be pretty small. In many cases a NVMe drive has more read speed than the rest of the PC can take advantage of. Games for example, generally don't load much faster from NVMe than from a sata SSD.

The 660p however is a bit schizophrenic -- much of the time it's very fast like other NVMe drives, but any time it has to hit the quad bit memory it's slower than most sata SSDs. QLC is extremely slow to write. So it's best used for purposes that don't hit those limitations. It'd be fine as a main drive for a non-enthusiast, and as said it's great as a secondary SSD for games and stuff.

quote:

Are there any concrete differences between your two suggestions?

The MX500 and WD blue are basically identical, the only thing that might make a difference for you is if one of the two companies offers better warranty service in norway.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Black Griffon posted:

Ah, that looks perfect, at least if a PCIe drive is only nicer and not obligatory. Are there any concrete differences between your two suggestions?

A SATA drive is gonna provide like 90-95% of the same experience in daily driving that a PCIe NVMe drive will. Is the PCIe drive faster? Absolutely, by a massive margin. Does it really change how long it takes to open Word? Sure...by a few seconds. If you're already on a SSD, moving to a PCIe one probably won't be all that noticeable if all you're doing is normal person desktop stuff.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of load times for a few games using different SSDs: https://www.legitreviews.com/game-l...-one-hdd_204468

Yeah, the SATA ones are at the back of the pack, but you're talking a difference of 33s vs 28s slowest-vs-fastest, so not all that big a deal.

NVMe's are nice because you don't have cables all over your case, though!

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Buy whichever is a lot cheaper

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




The SSD companies seem to have gotten wise and decided their pricing needs to be updated; the Inland Premium 1 TB is now $129.99 (up from $99 and $109 previously) and all the other Phison OEM SSDs pricing seems to have mirrored the increases.

Increased prices for less DRAM but denser NAND. Sigh.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Binary Badger posted:

The SSD companies seem to have gotten wise and decided their pricing needs to be updated; the Inland Premium 1 TB is now $129.99 (up from $99 and $109 previously) and all the other Phison OEM SSDs pricing seems to have mirrored the increases.

Increased prices for less DRAM but denser NAND. Sigh.

Are the price increases from that factory power outage hitting yet?

I have two basically new 1TB SSD's I'm not using....money in the bank baby!

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Binary Badger posted:

The SSD companies seem to have gotten wise and decided their pricing needs to be updated; the Inland Premium 1 TB is now $129.99 (up from $99 and $109 previously) and all the other Phison OEM SSDs pricing seems to have mirrored the increases.

Increased prices for less DRAM but denser NAND. Sigh.

Despite this I think I'm going to wind up paying the $20 premium over a MX500 just to not have to add to the rats nest of cables in my case.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Bob Morales posted:

Are the price increases from that factory power outage hitting yet?

I have two basically new 1TB SSD's I'm not using....money in the bank baby!

I'm only mentioning the Phison tree, not Samsung or Silicon Image based parts. From what I saw at Micro Center, prices for other manufacturers aren't adjusting.. yet.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





Luckily my cabling is pretty clean, and it seems like a pretty drastic price increase to go for PCIe. I use the PC pretty much exclusively for gaming and the internet, but a loading diff of a few seconds seems tolerable.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Binary Badger posted:

The SSD companies seem to have gotten wise and decided their pricing needs to be updated; the Inland Premium 1 TB is now $129.99 (up from $99 and $109 previously) and all the other Phison OEM SSDs pricing seems to have mirrored the increases.

Increased prices for less DRAM but denser NAND. Sigh.

NAND has increased in price recently. Likely the driver for higher costs as the new consoles and new servers/pcs drive demand for later in the year.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Bob Morales posted:

Are the price increases from that factory power outage hitting yet?

I have two basically new 1TB SSD's I'm not using....money in the bank baby!

the fab power outage alone wouldn't be enough to change global prices. samsung lost a bunch of silicon but everyone else was fine, and it's not like samsung was setting the low benchmark for prices anyways.

prices are expected to gradually rise this year from increased demand. that's going to be in little hikes a couple products at a time. the best known names just aren't putting their drives on sale as often, so a discount brand like inland can raise theirs to the new minimum.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




BTW, Micro Center has switched OEMs for their super el cheapo USB thumb drives to newer Phison controllers, a 16 GB thumb drive I got from them for only five bucks has a read speed of 100 MB/sec and a write speed of 35-45 MB/sec, not bad for the price and sure helps speed up Windows 10 upgrades.

It seems the trick is you have to pick the right kind out of their little drawer bins at the register; they must be 1) transparent plastic and 2) have a Phison controller you can see at the bare limit of readability and 3) it has to be labeled "USB3.1," they have a bunch labeled "USB3.0" that are not see-through that are absolute garbage and have read/write speeds equivalent to floppies.

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 22, 2020

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





Trying to google "how to clone OS to SSD" just brings up a lot of poorly disguised ad pages. What's the goon recommended method?

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Macrium Reflect Free does a good job. I also used Samsung's migration tool in the past, but that only works if the target drive is a Samsung SSD.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Black Griffon posted:

Trying to google "how to clone OS to SSD" just brings up a lot of poorly disguised ad pages. What's the goon recommended method?

Who makes the SSD you're migrating to? The vendors usually have a licensing deal with some software that does the trick - WD have a locked down version of Acronis which worked really well for me.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.





It's a WD, so I guess that's solved!

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Am I the only person who still uses partition magic?

Lambert
Apr 14, 2018
If you can read this, I'm posting in bad faith.


Fallen Rib

Considering it has been deprecated since 2011, probably. Something like gparted does everything Partition Magic did in terms of partitioning better, and for imaging Macrium Reflect is the go-to.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


And Carbon Copy Cloner if you're one of the few left with a Mac that you can actually swap the SSD out on

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Lambert posted:

Considering it has been deprecated since 2011, probably. Something like gparted does everything Partition Magic did in terms of partitioning better, and for imaging Macrium Reflect is the go-to.

I meant minitool partition wizard, and am stupid.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Dogen posted:

I meant minitool partition wizard, and am stupid.

iirc the free version of that is kinda annoying compared to macrium reflect free?

it seems to have better automatic resizing than reflect though, which is the one kinda crap part of reflect. reflect will shrink partitions to fit a smaller drive just fine, but when moving to a larger drive you have to fiddle a bit to make the standard win10 install partition layout (efi, OS, recovery) expand to fill the drive.


but if you got a license that seems to be a good choice, I bumped into that one when I was dealing with a weird dynamic disk problem and they have excellent dynamic disk support.

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Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


I use Macrium Reflect for cloning but Partition Wizard for any other kind of disk management like when there are partitions that Windows refuses to let me nuke.

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