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Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Rinkles posted:

How do you check?

You look for reviews but he's not wrong. Cutting DRAM is it one of the few ways to manufacture an SSD more cheaply.

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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Even the Kingston A400 (the most expensive in that group) is DRAM-less.

The SU800 is a good drive. It's worth the extra .

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









This google sheets has info on a lot of SSDs

Lareine
Jul 22, 2007

KIIIRRRYYYUUUUU CHAAAANNNNNN


So, I've got a bit of a problem. I installed a 500 gb NVMe drive during my big rebuild. Everything else is working fine but the drive isn't showing up in Disk Management. It shows up in the bios and in Device Manager but I can't find it anywhere else.

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014



Taco Defender

Lareine posted:

So, I've got a bit of a problem. I installed a 500 gb NVMe drive during my big rebuild. Everything else is working fine but the drive isn't showing up in Disk Management. It shows up in the bios and in Device Manager but I can't find it anywhere else.

I'd double-check Disk Management, specifically the bottom half. You may have to scroll down if you have more than a few disks in your system. There's probably no volume created (might not even be initialized), so you'll have to do that first before it'll show up in Windows Explorer and the top half of Disk Management.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Also how old is the windows, I assume itís windows 10 which should support it but older ones would need a driver. Respek to anyone running xp or 7/8 anymore.

Lareine
Jul 22, 2007

KIIIRRRYYYUUUUU CHAAAANNNNNN


Actuarial Fables posted:

I'd double-check Disk Management, specifically the bottom half. You may have to scroll down if you have more than a few disks in your system. There's probably no volume created (might not even be initialized), so you'll have to do that first before it'll show up in Windows Explorer and the top half of Disk Management.

Man, I didn't realize I could scroll down. That fixed it easy. Thanks!

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

"I dont fully understand football contracts but you can just be outright cut if you're shit right? With no penalties? Hockey needs that."

I Am Marc Bergevin IRL


Might help someone else, my board has two m.2 slots, well 3, but two longer ones but only one will accept nvme but both will take sata m.2 drives. Thought that might be your issue

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Wish those cheap SSDs would be useful as SATA DOMs but the 2.5Ē form factor kind of kills it for me. Probably best off doing some hilariously bad video like in the early days where someone at Samsung marketing hooked up a RAID0 of 26+ drives together for a benchmark and got a bunch of YouTube hits.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


necrobobsledder posted:

Wish those cheap SSDs would be useful as SATA DOMs but the 2.5Ē form factor kind of kills it for me. Probably best off doing some hilariously bad video like in the early days where someone at Samsung marketing hooked up a RAID0 of 26+ drives together for a benchmark and got a bunch of YouTube hits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eULFf6F5Ri8

LethalGeek
Nov 4, 2009



Rinkles posted:

At present time, if we're talking about general home use (browsing, streaming, gaming, guess occasional file transfers), is there going to be a big difference between a sata ssd and an nvme ssd?

To go along with the rest I've had time to play with a 3700X & NVMe setup after being on my "main" 3770K & SSD setup from 2013. Loading a game like Astronner on both several times I've noticed yeah sure the newer machine is faster to load the game but it's not dramatic given the 7 year difference. The bigger difference is plainly the CPU given how much faster sites load on the the machine. It's making me want to upgrade the older setup but I could absolutely make the SSD an "upgrade later" part in that as it wouldn't act as much more of a bottleneck from what i've experienced.

In fact the biggest thing I could do to speed up load time was exempt the folder from the virus scanner as that was eating up a ton of CPU to scan the same files every drat time.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


I just want to add some info on a developing situation. I've had a few Adata SU650/655 480 GB SSDs in use for bulk storage; these are DRAMless SSDs (the xx5 versions apparently being Amazon-exclusives and/or BoM drives, maybe) and are fine for such a role. Well, two of the drives have bad sectors despite rather limited use (in terms of power-on time, cycles, and R/W quantities.)

I discovered this on the first drive when backing it up; it can't read certain files and the relevant "bad sectors" SMART attributes incremented for each one encountered. The not-yet-backed-up files are unimportant and can be reacquired; I'm in the process of replacing it and filing a warranty claim.

The 2nd drive is basically my Google Drive sync volume, and is also already backed up on another local drive; it was actually performing fine and I only discovered the bad sectors after performing a surface scan via HD Sentinel after running into the discovery above with the first drive.

The 3rd drive has no bad sectors, but exhibits this weird behavior that I've seen on other drives (mainly HDDs) on other systems: files transferred to it take up more space on the drive than they should (so for example when trying to back up the files from drive #1 above, an identical drive, they end up taking like double the space they should, so I literally fill it with data comprising its rated capacity.) I never got an explanation for this behavior when I asked about it in the past, and I wasn't really using this SSD for anything specific, so I'm just taking it out of service as a precaution.

I'm running full r/w scans on a few 960 GB SU650 drives to see if they're affected as well, but all of the above alarmed me because I haven't had any issues with modern SSDs until these specific models. Other Adata drives continue to serve me well, particularly the SU800 and SX8200. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that these budget DRAMless models are the cheapest and most problematic, but it's still a little annoying.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



So my SATA SSD just died. I have no idea what happened but it's just gone. Windows can't find it and itdoesn't show up in UEFI. I tested the cable, the power and the port. They all work fine but the drive does not. I can get it to show up as an uninitialized drive if I put it in an external enclosure but if I try to initialize it I get a fatal error. Am I to understand that there's pretty much no way to get stuff off of this drive without some sort of recovery service? It was a gaming SSD so there's nothing really on it except game installs but I just want to double check.

Really unlucky. This SSD is only a couple years old and it was my first one. It's also the first harddrive I ever owned that failed of its own accord. I've lost some to the power supply taking a dump but have from hardware failure.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Jimbot posted:

Am I to understand that there's pretty much no way to get stuff off of this drive without some sort of recovery service? It was a gaming SSD so there's nothing really on it except game installs but I just want to double check.

This is correct. Drives that fail from write-endurance limits (which you absolutely did not hit) sometimes go read-only and you can salvage the data that way, but it sounds more like yours just straight up failed. You can try power-cycling to see if it might un-brick it (https://dfarq.homeip.net/fix-dead-ssd/) but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


On a related note, how would you recommend setting up automated backups (for home use)?

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



DrDork posted:

This is correct. Drives that fail from write-endurance limits (which you absolutely did not hit) sometimes go read-only and you can salvage the data that way, but it sounds more like yours just straight up failed. You can try power-cycling to see if it might un-brick it (https://dfarq.homeip.net/fix-dead-ssd/) but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Thanks for that. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Like I said, no important data will be lost it's just a bummer that it had to fail now. Can't afford to replace it at the moment so I'm just out a drive that was working fine yesterday. Bah.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Jimbot posted:

Thanks for that. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Like I said, no important data will be lost it's just a bummer that it had to fail now. Can't afford to replace it at the moment so I'm just out a drive that was working fine yesterday. Bah.

From what I understand that's how SSDs tend to fail, and that data recovery is often virtually impossible is a real downside.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Jimbot posted:

Am I to understand that there's pretty much no way to get stuff off of this drive without some sort of recovery service? It was a gaming SSD so there's nothing really on it except game installs but I just want to double check.

No, and I believe even recovery services can have trouble with SSDs. This is your warning to have backups (of stuff that's important).

Jimbot posted:

Really unlucky. This SSD is only a couple years old and it was my first one. It's also the first harddrive I ever owned that failed of its own accord. I've lost some to the power supply taking a dump but have from hardware failure.

You've been lucky with HDDs then!


Rinkles posted:

On a related note, how would you recommend setting up automated backups (for home use)?

There's a backup thread where people frequently like Duplicati + backblaze cloud storage. It also works with a NAS. Continuous incremental backups with history, but it's also a moderately complex program.

If you don't want to pay for cloud space & don't have a NAS, it's better to do traditional backups to an external drive because you do not want your backups to be connected to the same PC. Hardware failure is a worry, but so are worms that encrypt all your poo poo & PSUs that blow up. Put a reminder on your calendar to backup every 2 weeks or whatever time period is appropriate.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


practically every hdd i've used has died, most around the 6 year mark.

Klyith posted:

If you don't want to pay for cloud space & don't have a NAS, it's better to do traditional backups to an external drive because you do not want your backups to be connected to the same PC. Hardware failure is a worry, but so are worms that encrypt all your poo poo & PSUs that blow up. Put a reminder on your calendar to backup every 2 weeks or whatever time period is appropriate.

that's what i've been doing (except much less frequently). thought there might be a more 2020 approach that doesn't involve regular payments, but that's a very good reason for not having your backup constantly connected.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Rinkles posted:

that's what i've been doing (except much less frequently). thought there might be a more 2020 approach that doesn't involve regular payments, but that's a very good reason for not having your backup constantly connected.

I don't get it, what could be more 2020 than regular fees?

(But if your amount of data is small enough to fit in free cloud storage, dulpicati can also use a gdrive, onedrive, etc. Also the reason backblaze is so popular is because they really are pretty cheap, closer to $15 per year than per month for a couple hundred GB.)

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



No luck with the power cycling. Thing's a paper weight now. Just have to reinstall some games, nothing major. The only suckass thing about this whole mess, well on top of losing a ssd, is that Windows still thinks I have the drive and won't let me uninstall the programs. So if I try to reinstall some things I just get told Windows can't find the install directory and to choose another (which I never get a choice).

Any way to change that? I figured it'd be registry stuff but I deleted a few for the programs that were on the drive but that doesn't seem to fix my problem.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Jimbot posted:

No luck with the power cycling. Thing's a paper weight now. Just have to reinstall some games, nothing major. The only suckass thing about this whole mess, well on top of losing a ssd, is that Windows still thinks I have the drive and won't let me uninstall the programs. So if I try to reinstall some things I just get told Windows can't find the install directory and to choose another (which I never get a choice).

Any way to change that? I figured it'd be registry stuff but I deleted a few for the programs that were on the drive but that doesn't seem to fix my problem.

The Add/Remove programs tool hasnít been any help? Iíve found that works on stuff like that after a drive failure.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Ugly In The Morning posted:

The Add/Remove programs tool hasnít been any help? Iíve found that works on stuff like that after a drive failure.

Nope, just tells me it can't find the directory that contains the uninstall.exe. It's the weirdest thing.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Jimbot posted:

Nope, just tells me it can't find the directory that contains the uninstall.exe. It's the weirdest thing.

Yeah, because under the hood a lot of the time all Add/Remove Programs does is keep a list of the locations the uninstallers live when a program installs and some related registry keys. It otherwise has little idea WTF about anything, and just assumes the uninstaller knows what it's doing. When your drive died, Add/Remove Programs still "knows" where the uninstaller is, but it obviously can't actually get there.

Microsoft has a tool to fix that: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb...lled-or-removed

Why they decided to not package it with Windows normally anymore is beyond me, but

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



DrDork posted:

Yeah, because under the hood a lot of the time all Add/Remove Programs does is keep a list of the locations the uninstallers live when a program installs and some related registry keys. It otherwise has little idea WTF about anything, and just assumes the uninstaller knows what it's doing. When your drive died, Add/Remove Programs still "knows" where the uninstaller is, but it obviously can't actually get there.

Microsoft has a tool to fix that: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb...lled-or-removed

Why they decided to not package it with Windows normally anymore is beyond me, but

Thanks again. I've been looking for something similar to this for a while. I pretty much knew that was the case but since I haven't had this problem happen in a long time, previous versions of Windows just outright ask "hey, we can't find this program wanna just remove it?" and was befuddled that this sort of thing wasn't available in 10.

Edit: drat, the stupid link to the program doesn't work. I'll look around and see if I can't find something similar.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Most of add/remove programs are simple entries in the registry, look in
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall and
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall

It's generally pretty easy to see what thing are, you can delete the folder that contains each entry.


All that does is remove the entry from the list in the control panel of course, it doesn't remove any components the software might have added to your OS drive or dangling threads like services which every game launcher does these days. And you have to delete the shortcuts from the start menu to remove those.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Thanks for all the help! I actually found that Windows 10 still has Control Panel hidden away with the uninstall program that I used to use. An easy way to get to it is use "appwiz.cpl" in Run. Took care of all my problems! Something to remember for the future.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Jimbot posted:

use "appwiz.cpl" in Run.

Yes, Microsoft, this is a very user-friendly and sane naming scheme for a potentially important part of your system. Good job.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




DrDork posted:

Yes, Microsoft, this is a very user-friendly and sane naming scheme for a potentially important part of your system. Good job.

That's always been the internal name of the programs and features interface of the old control panel. You can still get to it by searching for control panel in the start menu and then clicking the thing.

Kind of baffling surprising Microsoft of them to make the modern version of it really bad at its job, though.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




*breaks down door panting*

HKLM....CurrentVersion....registry entries

*passes out*

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Potato Salad posted:

*breaks down door panting*

HKLM....CurrentVersion....registry entries

*passes out*

Lol, amen

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

RELY NOT ON MY HONOR!!! FOR WHEN I OFFER MY WORD OF BOND, I TAKE NOT THAT VOW TO HEART!! CASUALLY, I BRING SHAME TO MY HOUSEHOLD AND RUIN TO THOSE WHO RELY ON MY COMMITMENT, BY SHIRKING MY AVOWED DUTY

Geemer posted:

That's always been the internal name of the programs and features interface of the old control panel. You can still get to it by searching for control panel in the start menu and then clicking the thing.

Kind of baffling surprising Microsoft of them to make the modern version of it really bad at its job, though.

Considering Windows 10 first came out in 2015, the current state of Settings still being this bad is just sad

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



I cant wait for MS to trash Control Panel completely and not bother migrating any of the 100s of settings that you can only access there. Gonna be so cool spending hours researching PowerShell scripts to do basic networking poo poo.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Cygni posted:

I cant wait for MS to trash Control Panel completely and not bother migrating any of the 100s of settings that you can only access there. Gonna be so cool spending hours researching PowerShell scripts to do basic networking poo poo.

"If something goes wrong with any Windows PC you can just bring it to the Bing Bar!"

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.


Dumb quick question! Does sending a Trim command to the SSD cause any kind of wear / degrade its life span / etc.? Like yeah, yeah, SSD's now last 5x your lifespan, but say hypothetically speaking, there are two identically computers, one's set to Trim every 5 days vs. the other set to Trim daily, would the 5 day one last long? Hypothetically.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Im_Special posted:

Dumb quick question! Does sending a Trim command to the SSD cause any kind of wear / degrade its life span / etc.? Like yeah, yeah, SSD's now last 5x your lifespan, but say hypothetically speaking, there are two identically computers, one's set to Trim every 5 days vs. the other set to Trim daily, would the 5 day one last long? Hypothetically.

Nope, TRIM won't cause any more wear on an SSD, it merely lets the OS inform the SSD of deleted blocks so the latter can free them up upfront rather than doing so later, at a performance penalty. I'd say "TRIM daily" but you probably don't even need to bother doing it that much (unless you're actually doing a lot of write/rewrite/delete operations on the system drive.)

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Want this 8TB Sabrent Q

https://www.servethehome.com/sabren...w-size-matters/

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Atomizer posted:

I'd say "TRIM daily" but you probably don't even need to bother doing it that much (unless you're actually doing a lot of write/rewrite/delete operations on the system drive.)

FWIW, most OSes issue TRIM commands when it's relevant to do so automatically behind the scenes now. I think MacOS doesn't enable them automatically for third-party SSDs, but Windows has been doing it since Win7 and most versions of Linux do so, as well.

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.


Atomizer posted:

Nope, TRIM won't cause any more wear on an SSD, it merely lets the OS inform the SSD of deleted blocks so the latter can free them up upfront rather than doing so later, at a performance penalty. I'd say "TRIM daily" but you probably don't even need to bother doing it that much (unless you're actually doing a lot of write/rewrite/delete operations on the system drive.)

That's what I heard but there was no "source" so didn't know if was true, Windows 10 does it automatically every 3-5 days along with their Automatic Maintenance, but I've heard others set up custom Tasks in Scheduler that do TRIM daily or even every 12 hours... I was wondering if I should do the same, not 12 hours, but maybe daily vs. the latter 3-5 days W10 does at default.

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DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

I mean, as said, it won't hurt anything, but unless you're filling it to the gills, it won't matter. Hell, even if you do tend to fill it up, unless you're also using it under moderate to heavy workloads the entire time the system is on, the background garbage collection of the drive itself will clean stuff up at a reasonable clip.

Basically, if you don't know you need to tinker with it, you don't need to thinker with it.

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