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BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


WhyteRyce posted:

HDDs coming back with a vengeance

seems likely to be a BS rumor/story, as WD is literally involved in ownership of NAND fabs

oh wait looks like it's a 2008 story LOL

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WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



BobHoward posted:

seems likely to be a BS rumor/story, as WD is literally involved in ownership of NAND fabs

oh wait looks like it's a 2008 story LOL

haha I probably should look at the date for articles sent my way

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013


movax posted:

What spec are they combating with 20,000 RPM exactly?

Fly wheel UPS.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


movax posted:

What spec are they combating with 20,000 RPM exactly?

the dB/m, W and MTBF spec

Dilber
Mar 27, 2007

TFLC
(Trophy Feline Lifting Crew)


WhyteRyce posted:

HDDs coming back with a vengeance

I want them to make 100,000 RPM hard drive as a sign of the times to combat PCI 4 NVME drives

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


Magnetized turbocharger spindles should do the trick.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Dilber posted:

I want them to make 100,000 RPM hard drive as a sign of the times to combat PCI 4 NVME drives

Yeah, I like computer cases made out of AR500 steel for when one of them fails catastrophically.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



I read somewhere else that WD is sometimes slipping 7200rpm drives into 5400rpm products. Kind of wish the 20k product line existed just for that

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Officemax/Officedepot have the 2TB Crucial MX500 for $175 with promo code. Some other sizes too but I'm just linking the big one:
https://www.officedepot.com/a/produ...al-Solid-State/

quote:

Price after promo code 34736550
2TB Crucial MX500 2.5" 3D NAND SATA III Internal Solid State Drive $173.99
Prices after promo code 77202453
1TB Crucial MX500 2.5" 3D NAND SATA III Internal Solid State Drive $93.59
500GB Crucial MX500 2.5" 3D NAND SATA III Internal Solid State Drive $58.39
250GB Crucial MX500 2.5" 3D NAND SATA III Internal Solid State Drive $42.39
From:
https://slickdeals.net/f/14328575-2...h?src=frontpage

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

The coupon is accepted but the discount doesn't register. The 2TB drive shows up as a "Backordered Product." Office Depot is also a notorious stickler for not allowing coupons on any "technology" items, so they might bounce it if/when it does come back into stock.

Great deal, but there's a good chance 2TB SATA drives might hit $150 soon. There's a glut of NAND again.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Ok, I've got a weird one here.

I picked up an ASRock Rack x470d4u motherboard for my home NAS/VMhost/PlexServer/whatever.

It has 2 m.2 slots on board with the following config:

Slot1: PCIe2.0x4
Slot2: PCIe3.0x2/SATA3

So that's a kind of bizarre as hell setup. MY idea is to populate both slots with 2 matching m.2 SSDs. Is this even possible? I honestly don't give a poo poo about how fast they are, or if they're the latest PCIe generation.

I want to put them in a RAID1 BTRFS config to be used as a cache drive for the main HD array (this is a feature of Unraid).

Apparently the x16 slot can be bifurcated to 4/4/4/4 enabling me to get something like this which I can slot up to 4 M.2s into but at this point I'd rather not add the extra 50$ (maybe later I'd add it for VMs only).

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Matt Zerella posted:

Ok, I've got a weird one here.

I picked up an ASRock Rack x470d4u motherboard for my home NAS/VMhost/PlexServer/whatever.

It has 2 m.2 slots on board with the following config:

Slot1: PCIe2.0x4
Slot2: PCIe3.0x2/SATA3

So that's a kind of bizarre as hell setup. MY idea is to populate both slots with 2 matching m.2 SSDs. Is this even possible? I honestly don't give a poo poo about how fast they are, or if they're the latest PCIe generation.

I want to put them in a RAID1 BTRFS config to be used as a cache drive for the main HD array (this is a feature of Unraid).

Apparently the x16 slot can be bifurcated to 4/4/4/4 enabling me to get something like this which I can slot up to 4 M.2s into but at this point I'd rather not add the extra 50$ (maybe later I'd add it for VMs only).

Yeah you can definitely use the onboard, with either two pcie/nvme drives or one pcie and one sata. You will not be getting the max throughput of the drives (which are usually x4 pcie 3.0) but if that doesnít matter no worries. Theyíll both be running at half their maximum speed.

The slot adapter option could be something for a later upgrade!

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


priznat posted:

Yeah you can definitely use the onboard, with either two pcie/nvme drives or one pcie and one sata. You will not be getting the max throughput of the drives (which are usually x4 pcie 3.0) but if that doesnít matter no worries. Theyíll both be running at half their maximum speed.

The slot adapter option could be something for a later upgrade!

Ok, great, so next question.

On Unraid, the cache usually gets a lot of writes, obviously I'm not going to spend enterprise money for MAXIMUM durability! But what should I look out for here? I feel like a pair of 500GB drives will do me fine.

Just 2 standard Crucial NVME drives? I say Crucial because they are usually pretty decent when you're not trying to min/max performance and just need reliability.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Matt Zerella posted:

Ok, great, so next question.

On Unraid, the cache usually gets a lot of writes, obviously I'm not going to spend enterprise money for MAXIMUM durability! But what should I look out for here? I feel like a pair of 500GB drives will do me fine.

Just 2 standard Crucial NVME drives? I say Crucial because they are usually pretty decent when you're not trying to min/max performance and just need reliability.

I canít recall what the drive du jour is but with consumer grade drives they will usually have a max data writes buried somewhere in the specs. This is a pretty high number like in the hundred+ TB written and is usually very conservative to boot. The amount capable of being written goes up with drive capacity.

I think even as a cache drive for unraid it wonít be getting slammed with writes constantly so pretty much any decent drive would be fine. Someone else who is more of a brand/nand guy would be better to comment on specifics!

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Matt Zerella posted:

Ok, great, so next question.

On Unraid, the cache usually gets a lot of writes, obviously I'm not going to spend enterprise money for MAXIMUM durability! But what should I look out for here? I feel like a pair of 500GB drives will do me fine.

Just 2 standard Crucial NVME drives? I say Crucial because they are usually pretty decent when you're not trying to min/max performance and just need reliability.

The common crucial NVMe drive out there is the P1 which you definitely don't want for a cache drive as it's QLC. I'd say a WD SN550 as the cheap TLC drive that's also good known-quality nand.

Though if you wanted some enterprisey drives, new old-stock samsung drives are priced equal to today's NVMe drives on ebay. For ex this thing which was popular on servethehome. They're slow compared to current drives, but the write endurance is nuts.


I don't know enough about your use case to know how much the write endurance matters though. If your VMs are churning data constantly it could be a thing, if it's just doing stuff when you interact with the server it probably isn't a big deal.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Fantastic, thank you both for the info. I'll grab 2 of the WD SN550s and be done with it. Frees up 2 SATA ports woohoo!

DarkestLite
Feb 27, 2007

"Can we fix it?"
"No, it's fucked."


I grabbed two 2-TB SATA SSDs. I normally have a drivepool setup for my HDDs and I wanted to know if doing a second drivepool for the SSDs would affect their speed.

They would only be pooled together, no normal HDDs with them, and would use them just for games.

I can just keep them separate if it'll hurt their speed, but, figured it'd be nice to have one big 4 TB SSD for everything.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


We had a pair of intel DC SSDís, but not the super high write ones, and someone set our synology up to use write caching, when all it does is serves as a backup target for veeam. Killed a drive in a little over a year.

Now we use one as a read cache for the majority of the drives and then one for a read/write on a smaller section as an instant restore or whatever they call it

Erfsom
Nov 3, 2005

Wrrroavr




Bought a new SSD since it was on sale, but did a benchmark on it and noticed it is slower than my old C: drive even though that disk is old and was even cheaper. Both are Kingston drives the new one is a SKC600 512gb and the old one is a SUV400 240gb. My motherboard is pretty old at this point, it is a Asus Sabertooth P67, but ports I plugged it into were both marked SATA 6.0 Gb in the manual so I don't know what is going on.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Erfsom posted:

Bought a new SSD since it was on sale, but did a benchmark on it and noticed it is slower than my old C: drive even though that disk is old and was even cheaper. Both are Kingston drives the new one is a SKC600 512gb and the old one is a SUV400 240gb. My motherboard is pretty old at this point, it is a Asus Sabertooth P67, but ports I plugged it into were both marked SATA 6.0 Gb in the manual so I don't know what is going on.



Are you connected to the Intel SATA ports? If you have JMicron or Marvell SATA ports they will be slower.

Erfsom
Nov 3, 2005

Wrrroavr




Bob Morales posted:

Are you connected to the Intel SATA ports? If you have JMicron or Marvell SATA ports they will be slower.

Ah, that's it. The manual said the Marvell ports had the same speed but I guess not. Only two Intel ports with Sata 3, so I guess I'll live with it for now. At least there was nothing wrong with the disk.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013


Marvell ports are traps or any secondary can be assumed as such. Running at half speed isn't usual, it's expected. The only thing I would plug into them are HDD.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Erfsom posted:

Ah, that's it. The manual said the Marvell ports had the same speed but I guess not. Only two Intel ports with Sata 3, so I guess I'll live with it for now. At least there was nothing wrong with the disk.

The Marvell ports are fine for HDD's but the Intel ports will outperform them handily when you connect an SSD. Even though both are '6GBps'

movax
Aug 30, 2008



JMicron and Marvell drivers are bad news ó I just pretend they don't exist and one of my first BIOS steps is to disable those fuckers.

Over/under until SATA ports actually just start disappearing and vendors start using those SerDes / BGA balls for more PCIe / USB? Feels like the numbers should start dropping from 6/8 down to like, 2/4 SATA 6Gbps ports, tops, for most desktop applications ó people who want lots of drives could go to a different SKU.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

I think we'll see a drop to 2-4 on a lot of boards, yeah. But I expect to only see, at most, a bump up from 1x M.2 to 2x M.2 slots on all but the biggest ITX boards. A lot of boards already have 6 USB ports and a header or two for front panels, so I don't really see them increasing those anytime soon--no need, generally, especially with USB hubs being as cheap as they are.

What would be nice is to see more of them pushed over to USB-C and, even better, connected up with TB3. I don't see either of those happening in the near-term, though, and actually expect most will hold out with a single USB-C port until USB 4 starts coming out.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



What's the BoM cost on a SATA socket vs an M.2 socket?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Some Goon posted:

What's the BoM cost on a SATA socket vs an M.2 socket?

I can't imagine the physical socket costing much different, but maybe there's an effective cost difference with the number of traces that need to be used for a m.2 PCIe slot vs a SATA socket? Presumably there's some savings for dropping of Marvell add-on chips for extra SATA ports, too.

The biggest limitation for additional m.2s in a lot of cases look to be physically finding space for the things on the boards themselves. Some mITX boards have been shoving them onto the back of the motherboard because of that.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









m2 has more pins and additional hardware, an insert nut or three, which are maybe 5 or 10 cents each (we buy them in way lower quantity than a mobo manufacturer would and pay 20-40 cents depending on the quality and type)

DarkestLite
Feb 27, 2007

"Can we fix it?"
"No, it's fucked."


DarkestLite posted:

I grabbed two 2-TB SATA SSDs. I normally have a drivepool setup for my HDDs and I wanted to know if doing a second drivepool for the SSDs would affect their speed.

They would only be pooled together, no normal HDDs with them, and would use them just for games.

I can just keep them separate if it'll hurt their speed, but, figured it'd be nice to have one big 4 TB SSD for everything.

Jump a bump as apparently Iím bad at googling and still canít find a concrete answer.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

DarkestLite posted:

Jump a bump as apparently Iím bad at googling and still canít find a concrete answer.

IIRC drivepool doesn't have much overhead, so it shouldn't impact speeds noticeably vs a single drive by itself. Especially if you intend to using it for gaming, you could significantly impair their benchmark performance and never notice it--current games really don't care all that much about whether your drive can do 300MBps or 3GBps, as long as latency is low (which it will be).

Drivepool will be slower than doing RAID 0, of course, but you also don't want to be doing RAID 0 in the first place.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

My opinion, the only real significant downside is worse reliability. That said, the cost is low, you have to re-download your games?

DarkestLite
Feb 27, 2007

"Can we fix it?"
"No, it's fucked."


DrDork posted:

IIRC drivepool doesn't have much overhead, so it shouldn't impact speeds noticeably vs a single drive by itself. Especially if you intend to using it for gaming, you could significantly impair their benchmark performance and never notice it--current games really don't care all that much about whether your drive can do 300MBps or 3GBps, as long as latency is low (which it will be).

Drivepool will be slower than doing RAID 0, of course, but you also don't want to be doing RAID 0 in the first place.

Yeah I donít plan on bothering with RAID and these two SSDs are strictly going to be for gaming. I have a 2TB NVMe for the OS and such and a 20+ TB Drivepool setup for everything else.

Iím not building the new desktop until next Tuesday but this makes me feel better about setting things up. Thanks a ton!

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

DrivePool can do mirrored reads 2x. So if you are doing mirroring it will read 2 disks at the same time for near 2x the speeds

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Ok, so the SK Hynix Gold S31 SATA SSD just got marked down at Amazon to $ 48.79 for 500 GB, and $ 83.19 for 1 TB.

Endurance for the 1 TB is 600 TBW, it has DRAM, though in a curious choice it uses LPDDR3 for the DRAM instead of DDR3/4 as most other manufacturers do.

Think I might pick it up to shove in an old Mac Mini 2014 I got oddly enough at a yard sale..

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004




List in first post for recommended brands still OK? Looking for a new sata sdd for a Windows drive. Consumer needs, some games.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



NLJP posted:

List in first post for recommended brands still OK? Looking for a new sata sdd for a Windows drive. Consumer needs, some games.

Nah, Samsung is stupid overpriced. Main drive or secondary? WD Blue or Crucial MX 500 are fine 2.5" sata, QLC drives are cheaper per gb but not recommended for a main drive since performance super tanks when close to full.

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004




Ok thanks

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Samsung 980pro reviews are up
https://www.storagereview.com/revie...nvme-ssd-review

the "prosumers" on r/hardware are flipping out that it's TLC

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

WhyteRyce posted:

Samsung 980pro reviews are up
https://www.storagereview.com/revie...nvme-ssd-review

the "prosumers" on r/hardware are flipping out that it's TLC

No scrub (nand technology)s

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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Quantum entanglement cells when?

I want a risk of a singularity with my data storage.

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