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Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




When in the past was there dram price fixing?

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Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

About a decade and a half ago, the DoJ took action and everything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing

NeuralSpark
Apr 16, 2004



It looks like 960 Evos are shipping from Amazon now, just got my ship notice.

Nice Van My Man
Jan 1, 2008



So I was starting up my computer, and my 850 EVO was reading SMART status BAD. I tried different cables etc. etc. and eventually just shipped it back to Samsung and they sent me a refurb. Fortunately I had backups, so nothing lost.

It only had ~8TB of writes, and hadn't been showing any strange signs before that. I'm kind of scared to plug my new SSD into the computer in case it's something I did which damaged it. Am I being paranoid? I've heard power failures can brick SSDs, is there anything else I should look out for?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Nice Van My Man posted:

So I was starting up my computer, and my 850 EVO was reading SMART status BAD. I tried different cables etc. etc. and eventually just shipped it back to Samsung and they sent me a refurb. Fortunately I had backups, so nothing lost.

It only had ~8TB of writes, and hadn't been showing any strange signs before that. I'm kind of scared to plug my new SSD into the computer in case it's something I did which damaged it. Am I being paranoid? I've heard power failures can brick SSDs, is there anything else I should look out for?

When it showed BAD status did you try and get any data off the thing? I would have been really interested to know. Based on that answer you can poo poo your pants or not.

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

RELY NOT ON MY HONOR!!! FOR WHEN I OFFER MY WORD OF BOND, I TAKE NOT THAT VOW TO HEART!! CASUALLY, I BRING SHAME TO MY HOUSEHOLD AND RUIN TO THOSE WHO RELY ON MY COMMITMENT, BY SHIRKING MY AVOWED DUTY

Nice Van My Man posted:

So I was starting up my computer, and my 850 EVO was reading SMART status BAD. I tried different cables etc. etc. and eventually just shipped it back to Samsung and they sent me a refurb. Fortunately I had backups, so nothing lost.

It only had ~8TB of writes, and hadn't been showing any strange signs before that. I'm kind of scared to plug my new SSD into the computer in case it's something I did which damaged it. Am I being paranoid? I've heard power failures can brick SSDs, is there anything else I should look out for?

I've had three different SSDs randomly die over the years, in two completely different laptops and one desktop computer. Sometimes, it just happens.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


BobHoward posted:

With chips, raw materials are never the problem. Fab (factory) capacity can be. It takes a long time and an investment of several billion USD to bring a single fab online. If it turns out there isn't enough demand to sell what it can make while the fab is relatively new (depreciation on the equipment is fierce), the owner will lose enormous sums of money. So, sometimes the industry is a bit conservative about expanding production capacity.

This huge upfront capital cost of constructing a fab, plus the difficulty of acquiring all the in-house expertise to do it right (or at all), is why there's so few players in NAND flash manufacturing. Which in turn does make it possible for the players involved to pull an OPEC -- that has happened before, in DRAM. They can't do too much of that because once again, the fabs they've got have to run and make significant revenue or they're hosed, but easing off on production to shore up prices or just plain agreeing to fix prices at a higher level? Yup.

This was also due in large part to one of the cyclical collapses of the computer market in the 80s that massively dropped demand for DRAM, and left overseas manufacturers trying to sell it for anything they could get.

The US accused Japanese companies of protectionism and dumping, and slapped a big tariff on DRAM imports. Which led to some computer company getting in major trouble for grinding the printing off the top of chips to try and dodge the tariff (can't find a source but I remember reading about something like that).

Nice Van My Man
Jan 1, 2008



redeyes posted:

When it showed BAD status did you try and get any data off the thing? I would have been really interested to know. Based on that answer you can poo poo your pants or not.

Yep, hooked it up to another computer. It connected as "FAT32" with a storage space of 0GB. Fortunately I have a backup, so nothing lost. I was more just scared that something about my computer or usage might fry SSDs, but it seems like I was just being paranoid.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Nice Van My Man posted:

Yep, hooked it up to another computer. It connected as "FAT32" with a storage space of 0GB. Fortunately I have a backup, so nothing lost. I was more just scared that something about my computer or usage might fry SSDs, but it seems like I was just being paranoid.

Commence pants making GBS threads. Not good at all. (not really) but goddamn SSD controllers!

pairofdimes
May 20, 2001

blehhh


So are the Samsung 960 PROs not really out yet? Depending on the capacity, everywhere either says out of stock or some near future release date.

Loucks
May 21, 2007

It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.


I want an mSATA SSD for my Thinkpad X230. Is the 240GB Intel 525 worth the $50 over the 250GB Sarnsung 850 Evo? My primary concern is reliability.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Just get the 850

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Loucks posted:

I want an mSATA SSD for my Thinkpad X230. Is the 240GB Intel 525 worth the $50 over the 250GB Sarnsung 850 Evo? My primary concern is reliability.

Not worth it at all. Get the 850. Or a Sandisk x400 for a little savings.

Loucks
May 21, 2007

It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.


Thank you!

RME
Feb 20, 2012



i got a 1TB 850 Evo to supplant/add to my current 500GB model during black friday that i havent installed yet
is cloning really worth the extra overhead to replace it as the boot drive or should i just put it in and call it a day since i already have an SSD there anyways

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

RME posted:

i got a 1TB 850 Evo to supplant/add to my current 500GB model during black friday that i havent installed yet
is cloning really worth the extra overhead to replace it as the boot drive or should i just put it in and call it a day since i already have an SSD there anyways

Not really, but the 1TB EVO *does* have the same controller chip as the Pro (the MEX instead of the MGX), it has 1GB of DRAM buffer to the 500GB's 512MB. Same speed and IOPS, though.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Most stuff nowadays doesn't care if it is installed on c: or somewhere else so just adding another drive isn't much of a hassle.

I put my new 1TB into use as a games drive, I like to keep my boot/os/apps on one and games on another. Then the boot/os gets the faster stuff first (next upgrade I will migrate to nvme) and I don't need to move around game stuff (which is really fast enough on sata III ssd for me)

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

priznat posted:

Most stuff nowadays doesn't care if it is installed on c: or somewhere else so just adding another drive isn't much of a hassle.

I put my new 1TB into use as a games drive, I like to keep my boot/os/apps on one and games on another. Then the boot/os gets the faster stuff first (next upgrade I will migrate to nvme) and I don't need to move around game stuff (which is really fast enough on sata III ssd for me)

Confirmed, PC don't care. Use two 1tb evos for games for steam, uplay, and origin. Use a 3tb WD green for Plex storage. Finally, a 250gb mushkin chronos deluxe for Windows. Everything works great without issue.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

For those of you who have a 960 EVO/Pro or SM951, Samsung put out a new driver today that should net you some extra performance: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details...r-download.html

Sereri
Sep 30, 2008

awwwrigami



This is probably more a thing for the Haus but my 4 yo Crucial M4 is acting up. For the last couple of days the PC will sometimes partly or totally freeze (partly as in I can still move the mouse and some programs will continue to work) and if it recovers the taskmanager will show 100% disk usage. Some of the time when that happens I even get notifications from some Intel program telling me the SSD was disconnected and reconnected.

My guess is it's toast but I figured maybe someone here will go "obviously it's {REASON} you idiot" and everything will be fine, can't hurt to ask.

I replaced the SATA cable a few minutes ago as a last resort. And it hasn't crashed yet but I suspect it will happen any. second. now.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


Sereri posted:

This is probably more a thing for the Haus but my 4 yo Crucial M4 is acting up. For the last couple of days the PC will sometimes partly or totally freeze (partly as in I can still move the mouse and some programs will continue to work) and if it recovers the taskmanager will show 100% disk usage. Some of the time when that happens I even get notifications from some Intel program telling me the SSD was disconnected and reconnected.

My guess is it's toast but I figured maybe someone here will go "obviously it's {REASON} you idiot" and everything will be fine, can't hurt to ask.

I replaced the SATA cable a few minutes ago as a last resort. And it hasn't crashed yet but I suspect it will happen any. second. now.

Those drives were known to have issues - are you on the latest firmware?

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/support-ssd-firmware

Sereri
Sep 30, 2008

awwwrigami



Yeah, I've been on the latest firmware since it came out, never had a problem until now

Carecat
Apr 27, 2004



Buglord

My Crucial M4 isn't always mounting, Crystal Disk Info thinks it is OK but it's just over four years old now. Any other ways for testing it?

Must be Crucial drive dying time. I was between the bugged firmwares.

Carecat fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 22, 2016

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

BIG HEADLINE posted:

For those of you who have a 960 EVO/Pro or SM951, Samsung put out a new driver today that should net you some extra performance: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details...r-download.html

Also recent firmwares, drivers, and toolbox for Intel 750: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/pr...e-3-0-20nm-MLC-

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



I have a really old laptop with a 5400 RPM hard drive in it. I'm gonna get an SSD. Is it still a bad move to migrate with `dd if=/dev/hdd of=/dev/ssd`? I don't feel reinstalling my whole system for this, but I will if I need to.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

xtal posted:

I have a really old laptop with a 5400 RPM hard drive in it. I'm gonna get an SSD. Is it still a bad move to migrate with `dd if=/dev/hdd of=/dev/ssd`? I don't feel reinstalling my whole system for this, but I will if I need to.

Depending on when/how the disk was partitioned, it may be poorly aligned with the physical blocks of the SSD, in which case a 1:1 copy as you suggest would turn out troublesome performance-wise, and for the lifespan of the SSD. It's better to make an equivalent but not necessarily identical partition structure on the target and then copy each partition, potentially in a filesystem-aware way.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


nielsm posted:

Depending on when/how the disk was partitioned, it may be poorly aligned with the physical blocks of the SSD, in which case a 1:1 copy as you suggest would turn out troublesome performance-wise, and for the lifespan of the SSD. It's better to make an equivalent but not necessarily identical partition structure on the target and then copy each partition, potentially in a filesystem-aware way.

Won't that miss the copying of the boot record though? Essentially rendering the new disk unbootable?

Varkk
Apr 17, 2004




Don't Most SSD brands have a migration tool you can boot off a USB to use?

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Varkk posted:

Don't Most SSD brands have a migration tool you can boot off a USB to use?

No, but you can easily make one with clonezilla or whatever.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Question: I have one 1TB Evo 950 SSD in my PC. I just bought another one because gently caress having to uninstall games to make space. On Windows 10, what's the best, hassle-free option to add the new drive's space to C: ?

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Alchenar posted:

Question: I have one 1TB Evo 950 SSD in my PC. I just bought another one because gently caress having to uninstall games to make space. On Windows 10, what's the best, hassle-free option to add the new drive's space to C: ?

Short answer: You don't.


Long answer: It's troublesome and a really bad idea for several reasons.
The main thing is that to "merge" two physical storage devices you have to use either RAID or similar in either RAID-0 or JBOD mode, and both of those will decrease reliability: Instead of one point of failure you now have two points of failure, and if either of those two fail you lose everything. Arguably JBOD is safer in that you will typically be able to recover more data in case of failure, but it's still a larger risk.
Running a RAID mode will most likely decrease performance with NVMe devices.
Having your operating system on a software RAID can be quite troublesome.

Just do the sane thing and have it appear as an additional drive.
If you want to be fancy you can have it mounted as a subfolder on C: rather than as a separate drive letter. E.g. you could actually have the second drive mounted as "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps" and then everything placed under that folder would be on the second drive, but nothing else would. It's not quite merging the two together to a single large space, but it looks somewhat similar. It obviously gives different limitations than having it as a straight separate drive letter too.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013



Wait, you can set a drive root as a symlink to a folder on your main drive? Why didn't I think of this earlier...

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

nielsm posted:

Short answer: You don't.


Long answer: It's troublesome and a really bad idea for several reasons.
The main thing is that to "merge" two physical storage devices you have to use either RAID or similar in either RAID-0 or JBOD mode, and both of those will decrease reliability: Instead of one point of failure you now have two points of failure, and if either of those two fail you lose everything. Arguably JBOD is safer in that you will typically be able to recover more data in case of failure, but it's still a larger risk.
Running a RAID mode will most likely decrease performance with NVMe devices.
Having your operating system on a software RAID can be quite troublesome.

Just do the sane thing and have it appear as an additional drive.
If you want to be fancy you can have it mounted as a subfolder on C: rather than as a separate drive letter. E.g. you could actually have the second drive mounted as "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps" and then everything placed under that folder would be on the second drive, but nothing else would. It's not quite merging the two together to a single large space, but it looks somewhat similar. It obviously gives different limitations than having it as a straight separate drive letter too.

Thanks. There's no real reason not to have it as an additional drive other than for neatness' sake.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Ynglaur posted:

Wait, you can set a drive root as a symlink to a folder on your main drive? Why didn't I think of this earlier...

Not (just) symlink, actually mount. Done in the Disk Management console.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Alchenar posted:

Thanks. There's no real reason not to have it as an additional drive other than for neatness' sake.

This was the good answer too. Most applications are drive agnostic per best practice now, so it's not too much trouble during install of games (especially Steam games) to switch to G: or whatever else you want to label the game drive.

Playing around with volume extrnsion or raid on a typical home / gaming computer can get you into a pickle that's hard to wiggle out of later down the road. One volume, one drive.

Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 26, 2016

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013



nielsm posted:

Not (just) symlink, actually mount. Done in the Disk Management console.



I'd use a proper emote for "mind blown" if I weren't on my mobile. Thanks.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


If you mount it like that, does it report free space separately for the mounted path and the partition its "inside"?

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003




GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

If you mount it like that, does it report free space separately for the mounted path and the partition its "inside"?

If you right click -> properties on the root drive ( eg C: ), you'll get the space free for only that drive, not any drives mounted to folders.

If you right click -> properties on the mount folder ( eg C:\GAMES ), you'll get nothing, the graph will be empty. On that page will be a 'drive properties' button that will then give the free space for the mounted drive.

eames
May 9, 2009



The german magazine c't did some sequential write endurance testing. They bought two ~250GB drives per model in retail stores and published the worse result.

750 Evo lasted 1203 TB instead of the guaranteed 70TBW.
850 Pro lasted 4623 TB (yes 4,6 Petabyte) instead of the guaranteed 150TBW and is still going.

The worst tested model, a Crucial BX200, still managed 188TB instead of 72TBW.

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priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

We had an Intel P3700 400GB HHHL card just clicked over to read only mode, need to use the utility to see how much was written to it. They are rated to 7.3PBW so I don't know how we killed it that bad.

priznat fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 26, 2016

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