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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Synthbuttrange posted:

Okay, so I got my new Dell 3000 and was hoping to put an SSD in it, but the internal layout is a bit odd to say the least. There's some PCIE x1 slots free though, would they be any use in adding an ssd to the computer? I was looking at adaptors like these for example:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...4-167-_-Product
Which you plug an m.2 ssd into Ooops this one's an X4 slot.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...B7846-_-Product
Or just mount the drive onto the card.

Is there anything I should consider before getting one of these?

What's the *exact* model number? Dell's made a lot of '3000-series' desktops in its life span. 2.5" SSDs can honestly be duct taped anywhere unless we're talking about the 3000 All-in-One.

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Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007



Model 3650
http://www.dell.com/support/manuals...074C&lang=en-us

Has the inside shot. Because of the power situation, I'd have to run a power splitter cable across from the HDD on the left, and another from the board to the data port. My video card's slightly larger too which worries me a bit if I'm running cables across that. The cards seem like a neater solution?

Synthbuttrange fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Jan 20, 2017

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Yeah, except I still have to counsel going with just a 2.5" SATA III SSD, seeing as you have the ports and even a space for it in the case, going by that image.

It's also not guaranteed that even if you went with an M.2>PCIe adapter if the board/BIOS will support booting from an NVMe drive. If you're worried about laying the cable over/near your GPU - there's no worry, there's no way any GPU that came with that thing is ever going to get warm enough to damage a cable, even if you dropped a 1050Ti in.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007



They seem to be mostly SATA, I havent seen any NVMe ones. Would that make any difference?

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




Am I correct in assuming that ADATA is still a completely poo poo brand to avoid?

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






SourKraut posted:

Am I correct in assuming that ADATA is still a completely poo poo brand to avoid?
Yes

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

My work PC has an SU800 in it. It seems to be fine so far, but definitely isn't something I'd have bought myself.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






dissss posted:

My work PC has an SU800 in it. It seems to be fine so far, but definitely isn't something I'd have bought myself.
At least you don't have to deal with the complete and utter lack of a returns policy

At least Crucial honors RMAs if you post a bad review on Newegg/Amazon

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars




Plaster Town Cop

So I did get a chance to play around with this 960 EVO in linux.

Wow. Just wow. It's an upgrade I can feel coming from a crucial M4.

Synthetic benchmarks matched what the review sites have, bla bla bla. Nothing interesting there. I tried my actual workload on it.

My big hit is when snapshotting/booting VMs, and I get a few seconds 2.4-2.7GB/s transfer speed. I might not notice if it was in a 2.0 slot and throttled to 2GB/s, but if there was more overhead and it was 1.8 or lower or so I absolutely would. Peak IOs was "only" pushing 30k/sec. Still, way better than SATA.

I'm going to leave it in the 3.0 slot until I get around to buying a GPU. By then I may have bought ZEN or a newer intel that's not so lane starved.

I think the biggest benefit is I'm 100% CPU bound now, I'm just not seeing any IO load anymore.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Hmm so ADATA are poo poo tier? I have RAM and a few SD cards, which were all good value and caused no problems.

I'm looking for something to stick in an older laptop (T520) as cheaply as possible as it'll be only a secondary device and I'll probably flip it before the SSD warranty runs out. 128GB is about the minimum and my main options seem to be ADATA (?), Transcend, and a bit more expensive AMD (whoa), Kingston and WD Green. Anything particular I should prefer? Absolute speed isn't critical and as long as it doesn't blow up immediately I don't really care if it shits itself after only 8 years instead of 20 or whatever.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


I'd happily take an ADATA with a SF2200

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Bob Morales posted:

I'd happily take an ADATA with a SF2200
Thanks to Seagate that's no longer possible.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Bob Morales posted:

I'd happily take an ADATA with a SF2200

You would take a 6 year old SSD controller? k

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot


BIG HEADLINE posted:

The Intel 600p and/or the Plextor M8 series. I'd highly recommend going with the heatsinked version of the Plextor. Toshiba and OCZ also make a decent drive.

There'll be a ton of new drives in the next six months, though.

totally getting myself a 1tb nvme if they start getting cheaper. i am in love with my intel 600p.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Agrajag posted:

totally getting myself a 1tb nvme if they start getting cheaper. i am in love with my intel 600p.

Yeah the one I got is a goddamn rocket. I am pretty sure it is a bit faster than the 850 evo.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Good newsthen: there's a global nand shortage!

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


SourKraut posted:

FYI but that means it's going back. Dell had UPS and FedEx hold and update the delivery addresses so they're returned. A few people were able to intercept them by going down to the pickup offices and showing the order/shipping confirmations and an ID when they've been held, but for most with the above, they were sent back.

Two weeks later, here I am hoisted on my own petard. They still haven't refunded me for the cancelled order, or even, you know, communicated with me in any way to tell me that it was cancelled.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

redeyes posted:

Yeah the one I got is a goddamn rocket. I am pretty sure it is a bit faster than the 850 evo.

The sequential read speed is faster for 256GB and especially 512TB+ models because like other high-end SATA drives, the 850 EVO is limited in sequential transfers by SATA. The write speed and IOPS are not great but they're good enough that it's hard to tell with most consumer workloads. Most of what people care about extreme speed for is loading programs into DRAM, after all. With large writes, you will see some speed inconsistency once the cache gets full.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Does SMART data mean anything for SSDs? Magician just had an update and says "good" for drive status, which I looked at the data and it has fails on uncorrectable error and ECC error rate, wondering if I need to start worrying about replacing this stupid 850 pro.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Dogen posted:

Does SMART data mean anything for SSDs? Magician just had an update and says "good" for drive status, which I looked at the data and it has fails on uncorrectable error and ECC error rate, wondering if I need to start worrying about replacing this stupid 850 pro.

Post the SMART datas

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride




I know for regular old hard drives any bad sectors (esp more than 1-2) meant new HDD time, but I haven't run into this with SSDs before.

Dogen fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 25, 2017

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Dogen posted:



I know for regular old hard drives any bad sectors (esp more than 1-2) meant new HDD time, but I haven't run into this with SSDs before.

From googling a bit, you might actually want to RMA that drive. You could also keep backups and keep running the drive. Some say it could be a cable/data issue, one time kind of thing. Others say it could be the beginning of the drive outright failing.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Newegg has the 512GB 600p for $169.99 today: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...N82E16820167412

$15 cheaper than Amazon for the same reseller retail pack.

Walked
Apr 14, 2003



BIG HEADLINE posted:

Newegg has the 512GB 600p for $169.99 today: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...N82E16820167412

$15 cheaper than Amazon for the same reseller retail pack.

Dang that makes me want to grab a second nvme disk

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot


im still waiting for the samsung 960 to be back in stock, what gives.

Dear Mr. Samsung and Newegg,

I have and extra m.2 slot that is sitting empty and I need me a 960 EVO 1TB at cheap rear end prices please.

Agrajag fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 25, 2017

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






gonna have to wait until manufacturers other than intel (which surprised me) start the race to the bottom on nvme

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

gonna have to wait until manufacturers other than intel (which surprised me) start the race to the bottom on nvme

Yeah, I was suprised how good of a price the 256gb 600p was and just had to grab it for my new build, as my boot drive. I do however want a better quality NVME for my games and other stuff. Currently using my 850 EVO 500gb for games only. HGST Deskstar 4TB for media and whatever random stuff.

Cowwan
Feb 23, 2011


Agrajag posted:

im still waiting for the samsung 960 to be back in stock, what gives..

I emailed B&H about this recently because I have one on backorder. They're expecting a shipment on the 8th, I imagine Newegg is looking at a similar timeframe.

e: This is for the 256gb EVO

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

gonna have to wait until manufacturers other than intel (which surprised me) start the race to the bottom on nvme
NAND shortage is a hell of a thing.

Hell, my WD stock is going gangbusters because the HDD market isn't crashing as fast as people thought it was, probably due to NAND constraints on the mobile market.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Star War Sex Parrot posted:

NAND shortage is a hell of a thing.
the reason it's happening is pretty funny: everyone transitioning fabs to 3d nand and it taking longer than usual causing a shortage of supply since there are fewer fabs active

it'll blow over before people really feel the price squeeze, at worst it'll just mean the x400 costs $20 more

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

the reason it's happening is pretty funny: everyone transitioning fabs to 3d nand and it taking longer than usual causing a shortage of supply since there are fewer fabs active

it'll blow over before people really feel the price squeeze, at worst it'll just mean the x400 costs $20 more

so does that mean there will be a massive price drop once they start cranking out 3d nand from the new fabs?

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Agrajag posted:

so does that mean there will be a massive price drop once they start cranking out 3d nand from the new fabs?
if one of the undercutters will it to be, yes

Ika
Dec 30, 2004
Pure insanity



Does the 960 EVO also have throttling issues? I just installed one in my work PC, and tried backing up a 40gb database file I had copied to it earlier, and by the time the file had finished copying the average speed had dropped to 400MB / s. This is using win7 with the samsung NVM driver but without magician.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Ika posted:

Does the 960 EVO also have throttling issues? I just installed one in my work PC, and tried backing up a 40gb database file I had copied to it earlier, and by the time the file had finished copying the average speed had dropped to 400MB / s. This is using win7 with the samsung NVM driver but without magician.


That is normal. 40GB is enough writes to make the drive perform at its lowest speed since the cache is full.

thechosenone
Mar 20, 2009


So since I don't have any pressing need for one, I figure that before I buy an SSD, I should continue to wait? They seem poised to gain yet more speed, capacity, and become cheaper in the coming year? It seems like they have hardly reached their maturity point yet, unlike tapes and hard discs.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

Just wear the fucking mask, Bob


thechosenone posted:

So since I don't have any pressing need for one, I figure that before I buy an SSD, I should continue to wait? They seem poised to gain yet more speed, capacity, and become cheaper in the coming year? It seems like they have hardly reached their maturity point yet, unlike tapes and hard discs.

They're still a fuckload faster than a HD ever will be. It's life-changing.

rally
Nov 19, 2002

yospos


Yeah, don't wait in my opinion. Once you use a computer with an SSD old platter drives are frustrating and nearly unusable.


I think it's worth noting that the initial speed gain going from an HD to an SSD is so remarkable that you'll be equally as happy with something like an 850evo as you would with a bleeding edge new tech. It gets said over and over again but it's the best quality of life improvement you can make on a computer these days. Boot times in the low single digit seconds, poo poo like visual studios went from 15-20 seconds to load to 2-3 seconds. I held out way too long and when I finally got one I was

thechosenone posted:

So guess that just leaves prices then. Should I wait, since I hear earlier on this page that they are planning to ramp up production, for a lower price? I imagine I will adore the speed up, and I don't think I actually need that much space (like I figure 250 GB would do), but I would kind of like to wait until SSDs become the default, so I can just grab something at the lenovo outlet without having to think about it.

Though I guess at this point, if one were to build their own PC, that they would be best off just getting an SSD while their at it, due to its major quality of life improvements. I know SSDs help with booting/rebooting comptuers, and with loading large amounts of data with video games, but do they help with anything that isn't as obvious? Like, opening programs must be faster, and copying large amounts of data from one place to another will likely be quicker, but is there anything I might not be thinking about?

General file system stuff is faster too, at least it feels like it. For instance, flipping through a folder with 5000 pictures in it in thumbnail view it just scrolls right along without hiccuping trying to load thumbnails. The faster loading of programs and booting can't really be understated either. Stuff like visual studios used to load in about 20 seconds for me, now it's more like 2-3 seconds. When you boot the computer there is no more window of time when you first log in where poo poo is loading and you can't do anything. It's just boot, log in, do poo poo immediately without lag. Once you just scoop an 850 evo you'll wonder why you waited so long.

rally fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jan 26, 2017

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

thechosenone posted:

So since I don't have any pressing need for one, I figure that before I buy an SSD, I should continue to wait? They seem poised to gain yet more speed, capacity, and become cheaper in the coming year? It seems like they have hardly reached their maturity point yet, unlike tapes and hard discs.

SATA III drives aren't going to get any faster, and I've heard nothing about SATA IV. The only thing that's scaling upwards is capacity, and in the long term, we might see controller-less drives which would be slower yet still faster than HDDs.

Also, there are SSDs which make it into the petabyte range of reads and writes. They're mature. If anything, HDD quality has suffered more of late.

thechosenone
Mar 20, 2009


So guess that just leaves prices then. Should I wait, since I hear earlier on this page that they are planning to ramp up production, for a lower price? I imagine I will adore the speed up, and I don't think I actually need that much space (like I figure 250 GB would do), but I would kind of like to wait until SSDs become the default, so I can just grab something at the lenovo outlet without having to think about it.

Though I guess at this point, if one were to build their own PC, that they would be best off just getting an SSD while their at it, due to its major quality of life improvements. I know SSDs help with booting/rebooting comptuers, and with loading large amounts of data with video games, but do they help with anything that isn't as obvious? Like, opening programs must be faster, and copying large amounts of data from one place to another will likely be quicker, but is there anything I might not be thinking about?

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rally
Nov 19, 2002

yospos


thechosenone posted:

So guess that just leaves prices then. Should I wait, since I hear earlier on this page that they are planning to ramp up production, for a lower price? I imagine I will adore the speed up, and I don't think I actually need that much space (like I figure 250 GB would do), but I would kind of like to wait until SSDs become the default, so I can just grab something at the lenovo outlet without having to think about it.

Though I guess at this point, if one were to build their own PC, that they would be best off just getting an SSD while their at it, due to its major quality of life improvements. I know SSDs help with booting/rebooting comptuers, and with loading large amounts of data with video games, but do they help with anything that isn't as obvious? Like, opening programs must be faster, and copying large amounts of data from one place to another will likely be quicker, but is there anything I might not be thinking about?

Anything filesystem related will be blazingly fast. One random example is flipping through huge folders of pictures in thumbnail view. It just scrolls right along without hiccups on the ssd where an hd would constantly be struggling to load thumbnails. It can't be understated how much of a quality of life improvement an ssd is. My favorite thing is being able to just wake my computer from sleep or boot the machine and start doing poo poo right that second instead of waiting 5-10 seconds for everything to unfuck itself. The faster loading of programs is also ridiculous. Programs like visual studio that may have taken 20+ seconds to load to a usable state now take 2-5 seconds instead. When you finally just buy one you will wonder what you were thinking waiting so long.

I just upped the storage in my desktop and didn't even consider anything besides an 850evo. I'll just never buy another mechanical drive again if I can help it.

rally fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jan 26, 2017

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