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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

EdEddnEddy posted:

Looking at a ASUS X99 Deluxe II board, I see it has an Onboard M.2 4X slot, a addon card for another M.2 4X, and 2 NVME U.2 ports.

What the hell are the U.2 ports for? Are they some sort of next step from SATA since it seems to connect to standard looking 2.5" SDD's with a funky wide connector?

Also does anyone know if you can RAID those 2 M.2's (or U.2's) for SnG?

U.2 ports are a failed interface that *no one* is using anymore - even the head of Intel's own storage division has said that U.2, also known as "SATA Express," is dead.

The good news is, there are U.2 to M.2 adapters. The bad news is, they're rare and expensive - *and* you need to find U.2 cabling to connect them.

http://www.microsatacables.com/m2-t...-sff-937-4xgen3

Also, kind of an interesting idea, but evidently you can turn a U.2 port into another x4 PCIe slot, too:

http://www.microsatacables.com/u2-s...r-sff-993-u2-4l

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Oct 14, 2016

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Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


BIG HEADLINE posted:

Speaking of fast storage, Optane v1.0 seems kind of underwhelming: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...nt-storage.html

The difference in performance may not be readily apparent at first and may need to be measured on the axis of latency at some point. I know it's a "1.0" kind of product and could only have gotten so far (System accelerator 2.0 will be over PCIe3 x4 lanes), but I don't expect IMFT to sell something absolutely 100% snake oil right off the bat. It'd make a poor first impression.


... Said the guy with the Broadwell-C machine

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


EdEddnEddy posted:

Looking at a ASUS X99 Deluxe II board, I see it has an Onboard M.2 4X slot, a addon card for another M.2 4X, and 2 NVME U.2 ports.

What the hell are the U.2 ports for? Are they some sort of next step from SATA since it seems to connect to standard looking 2.5" SDD's with a funky wide connector?

Also does anyone know if you can RAID those 2 M.2's (or U.2's) for SnG?

They were like sata express, a connector nobody used.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Grr. And this X99 Deluxe II has 2 U.2, 2 SATA Express (which luckily = 4 Normal SATA), and 2 M.2 with 1 on the board and 1 as a riser.

So they covered all the bases, but drat if it isn't a bit just throwing everything and the Kitchen Sink into this board, but nothing on the other boards. :/

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

"The Optane SSD was able to achieve 7.2x times more IOPS at low queue depth and upto 5.21 times the IOPs of conventional SSDs at high queue depths. Optane SSDs also provide 8.11x times lower latency than conventional NAND solutions.
An Optane Technology based SSD has 10x times the density of conventional SSD drives.
The marketing material also claims it is 1000x faster than the competition available on the market but it isnít clear to what exactly they are referring to.
Optane SSDs will have 1000x the endurance Ė which, if true, should mean the device has virtually unlimited life span for practical purposes."

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010


necrobobsledder posted:

When you won't expect to fill that space to about 80% (mostly for filesystem performance reasons rather than SSD related issues) before prices come down enough that you'll be upgrading and the decline in pricing won't make up the difference in sunk cost. In your position I'd get the smallest SATA SSD as necessary for day-to-day stuff and go up one size from there (eg. if you can fit Windows and web browsing and whatnot into 100 GB, go with a 256 GB), map larger bulk data onto the hard disk (Windows has junction points) and expect to upgrade everything completely in another two years tops and at that point a 2 TB M.2 NVMe SSD could totally be less than $250 by then.

Thanks for the sound advice. The only thing I can think of is I don't really run a lot of stuff (Except games) that I don't use all the time and most of them I would like to have the advantage of an SSD. My DAWs for example have HDD access for the audio files and whatnot so having quicker access would be a great boon. Just one of their project folders hit about 15GB. I'm pretty sure I could fit all my data into slightly less than 400GB, so it'd be a safe bet to just get a 500GB drive? I am aware I will need to upgrade all my hardware at some stage relatively soon, if just for the interface connectors (USB-C/TB3, M.2, etc) but at the moment I'm playing the waiting game, because aside from loading times on some programs that aren't games I am totally happy with the speed of my computer. To that end I really don't want to accidentally fill up a 500GB and start the process of moving everything to a side HDD. But if I can fit it all on 500GB and that's the most sensible option then I might go that route.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Surely the QD1 IOPs on those things is worth it--

32GB

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

U.2 isn't a failed interface, it is actually *the* interface for enterprise NVMe drives nowadays. SATA Express was dumb and no one is sad it is dead but the connector it spawned is fine and supports x4 gen3 no problem.

U.2 used to be called SFF-8639 but Intel pushed to have it renamed "U.2" to get in line with M.2, although the add in card FF is still just "AIC". The drives themselves are 2.5" form factor and look like this:



NVMe JBOD/JBOFs will definitely be using this interface, like the Facebook Lightning JBOF and ones from Serial Cables (which you shouldn't buy because PLX sucks)

The cables used are like Mini-SAS HD connectors (SFF-8644/8643) on one end to the drive on the other, like this, if not using a backplane. Mini-SAS HD is great because the 12Gbps cables have plenty of headroom for PCIe Gen3 and carry 4 rx/tx lane pairs.

All that being said, I don't know if it would be a plus on the Asus motherboard because the pinouts of those U.2 connectors can vary a little with some containing the sideband signals and others not, and since asus doesn't include a 8643 to 8639 cable it might be a bit of a crapshoot. Plus the cables can be kinda pricey.

Also, with the Optane I'm not surprised it is in smaller sizes (for now). It's really meant to be a replacement for other NVRAM solutions and not slower storage. Most of these use DDR attached to a battery or supercapacitor that gives enough time to dump it to flash if the main power goes out. With Optane they can ditch the battery pack and have pretty good speed, although it isn't quite the speed demon they were promising. I'm hoping MRAM starts coming in higher densities!

And finally, anyone ever do benchmarking of multiple NVMe drives on windows server 2012 R2? I'm wondering what is the deal with it because I am seeing pretty different results run to run. The endpoints are DDR based and not flash so it isn't a wear levelling thing. I'm wondering if the nvme storage driver in that windows vintage is just kinda ehhh or something. Getting to be a real pain to establish benchmarks when things keep shifting around..

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Ah - I was under the impression U.2 and SATA Express were one in the same. My mistake.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Ah - I was under the impression U.2 and SATA Express were one in the same. My mistake.

It kind of came out of SATA Express, before it was a combination of either/or SATA and x2 PCIe which, god, we had one in the lab and it was loving terrible. Ran super hot, was a spinning disk, dropped connections at random.. It was a prototype, and the company making them dropped it (wisely). The only thing going for it was it was the only drive or endpoint that we knew of that supported SRIS (separate refclock independent SSC) so that was kind of interesting. Most separate refclock devices are non-SSC.

xPanda
Feb 6, 2003

Was that me or the door?

It also doesn't help that the wikipedia page for U.2 redirects to the SATA Express page, which gives the speeds for the 2x PCIe lane configurations only - not those possible when using the U.2 connector, which are identical to the M.2 connector.

ConanTheLibrarian
Aug 13, 2004


dis buch is late

Fallen Rib

priznat posted:

Also, with the Optane I'm not surprised it is in smaller sizes (for now). It's really meant to be a replacement for other NVRAM solutions and not slower storage. Most of these use DDR attached to a battery or supercapacitor that gives enough time to dump it to flash if the main power goes out. With Optane they can ditch the battery pack and have pretty good speed, although it isn't quite the speed demon they were promising. I'm hoping MRAM starts coming in higher densities!

Gen 1 Optane's performance falls short of other NVRAM solutions and it doesn't come in the capacities that would make it attractive as a storage device. Right now I don't see the market for it, but that could change if NAND hits a wall and Optane keeps improving.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Optane is a flop lmao


Unless they integrate it onto flash SSDs as ram replacement/ cache ....

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Micron is to Intel as GF is to AMD

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

The write cycle advantage makes me think Optane is not a terrible fit for scenarios where SLC was a good idea (high transaction rate caches, which is typically an enterprise-only thing). Out of the gate it's not competitive with cutting edge SSDs, but we can should remember back to when SSDs were introduced maybe 8 years ago and cringe at how bad they were then, too. The question is really how quickly will Optane based drives improve to fit the market they were aiming for.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Malcolm XML posted:

Optane is a flop lmao


Unless they integrate it onto flash SSDs as ram replacement/ cache ....

Floptane

Why did they release it while it is so far behind all projected performance metrics?

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

Floptane

Why did they release it while it is so far behind all projected performance metrics?
most likely micron having to sell ANYTHING to stay afloat

ConanTheLibrarian
Aug 13, 2004


dis buch is late

Fallen Rib

Malcolm XML posted:

Optane is a flop lmao


Unless they integrate it onto flash SSDs as ram replacement/ cache ....

This is what I thought it would end up being, but given the capacities are similar to plain old DDR4 DIMMs, why not just use RAM? This is assuming it doesn't have a huge price advantage.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


ConanTheLibrarian posted:

This is what I thought it would end up being, but given the capacities are similar to plain old DDR4 DIMMs, why not just use RAM? This is assuming it doesn't have a huge price advantage.

It's non volatile but has similar perf to dram so it'd actually be really good for SSDs: no need for the expensive capacitor backup

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007


I'm gonna be upgrading to Windows 10 and doing a clean install on my Samsung 850. So according to the OP I don't need to bother with any additional drivers/utilities after I put the OS on right?

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



The Samsung 960 EVO drives are now available for preorder on the Samsung website:
http://www.samsung.com/us/computing...d-state-drives/

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I'm gonna be upgrading to Windows 10 and doing a clean install on my Samsung 850. So according to the OP I don't need to bother with any additional drivers/utilities after I put the OS on right?

Depends on your Motherboard, Might want to look up the Storage Driver for your motherboard to make sure you have one of the latest for your motherboard (for performance reasons), but outside of that it should work out of the box just fine.

Since 8 Windows has had pretty good Native SSD support so Trim and other things are handled out of the gate.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


In windows i typically install the latest intel chipset drivers and intel rapid storage.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Newegg on EBay is selling 850 Evo 1TB for $270. Newegg price is $306, $300 on Amazon. So you save $30, just depends if you want a 1TB drive or not. Purchased one before from them on Newegg:Ebay and had no problems with it. Probably going to order again. It's even cheaper than Jet's $280 for the SSD.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-850...doAAOSw~uhUmskj

ConanTheLibrarian
Aug 13, 2004


dis buch is late

Fallen Rib

Ars has some interesting graphs suggesting the 960 Pro's higher specs don't translate to a real world performance boost for PC users: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...-you-can-buy/3/ (last set of charts)

mythicknight
Jan 28, 2009

my thick night



I have an ancient OCZ Agility 3 60GB that's still chugging along in my home machine, which I'm pretty sure has long outlived its warranty. Maxed out its space within a month that of purchase back in 2011 and I've been too lazy/poor to upgrade it and transfer things over.

How big an improvement would I see in picking up a 1tb 850 Evo? I don't want to go any less than 1tb of space, but I'm not sure if I should wait longer for *fresh new product* that would be better for me or not. My board is from 2011 so no fancy m2/nvme slots. 2500k & Asus P8Z68-V PRO/Gen3, if it matters.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





ConanTheLibrarian posted:

Ars has some interesting graphs suggesting the 960 Pro's higher specs don't translate to a real world performance boost for PC users: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...-you-can-buy/3/ (last set of charts)

Yea I saw that too. I can believe it and wonder where the bottleneck lies that keeps the boot times and other things around the same time regardless of SSD used in their test?

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





mythicknight posted:

I have an ancient OCZ Agility 3 60GB that's still chugging along in my home machine, which I'm pretty sure has long outlived its warranty. Maxed out its space within a month that of purchase back in 2011 and I've been too lazy/poor to upgrade it and transfer things over.

How big an improvement would I see in picking up a 1tb 850 Evo? I don't want to go any less than 1tb of space, but I'm not sure if I should wait longer for *fresh new product* that would be better for me or not. My board is from 2011 so no fancy m2/nvme slots. 2500k & Asus P8Z68-V PRO/Gen3, if it matters.

Performance should be noticeable as well as the freedom to not have to fit inside a 60G anymore.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

ConanTheLibrarian posted:

Ars has some interesting graphs suggesting the 960 Pro's higher specs don't translate to a real world performance boost for PC users: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...-you-can-buy/3/ (last set of charts)

I think we are dealing with Windows storage subsystem inefficiencies at this point. Faster SSDs don't do much for workstation workloads.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Jesus Christ there's a lot of new nvme drives to compare.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

redeyes posted:

I think we are dealing with Windows storage subsystem inefficiencies at this point. Faster SSDs don't do much for workstation workloads.

Windows and windows applications would be better servered by higher 4k QD1 read speeds would it not? So your best option would be to raid all the SSDs together for maximum game!

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

At some point, boot times could be limited by other devices too. E.g. uploading firmware to GPU, enumerating and initializing USB devices.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





I wonder how those Plextor NVME drives they just dropped with the Heat Spreaders on them, will compare against those 960's. If they can cool enough to keep consistent performance up unlike the 960's which ARS said will start to throttle around the 333GB range. Not like normal uses will have you pushing 333GB all the time, but any heat venting is better for long term reliability over none/a copper sticker I feel.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

Hoping for some more 2TB SATA drives to hit the market for some sweet lag free jukebox action.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Chris Knight posted:

Hoping for some more 2TB SATA drives to hit the market for some sweet lag free jukebox action.

What'd be nice would be that high-cap ~300/300MB/sec 2TB drive that was supposedly going to come out months ago and never did. My guess is there's too little profit in selling an 'archive-style' SSD yet that's 2x faster than an HDD with faster seeks.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






BIG HEADLINE posted:

What'd be nice would be that high-cap ~300/300MB/sec 2TB drive that was supposedly going to come out months ago and never did. My guess is there's too little profit in selling an 'archive-style' SSD yet that's 2x faster than an HDD with faster seeks.
That and it's kind of a lot of traces on a PCB and thus many more points of failure

We might see those when QLC is actually a thing though

Tax Oddity
Apr 8, 2007

The love cannon has a very short range, about 2 feet, so you're inevitably out of range. I have to close the distance.

What's wrong with the current 2TB SATA drives, like the 850 Evo?

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Tax Oddity posted:

What's wrong with the current 2TB SATA drives, like the 850 Evo?

Absolutely nothing - I just think a lot of people in here would like a $399 2TB drive that was capped at something 'fast enough' like 300/300 instead of 550/550.

Tax Oddity
Apr 8, 2007

The love cannon has a very short range, about 2 feet, so you're inevitably out of range. I have to close the distance.

Oh, good. I got a bit paranoid for a second, I just ordered one and misinterpreted the conversation.

Yeah, cheaper but less blazingly fast drives would make sense.

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Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



What are the symptoms of a dying SSD?

I've had a Samsung EVO 840 (120GB) for at least 4 years, maybe a little longer.

I just upgraded my mobo (Z170 FTW), CPU (i5-6500), and RAM (8GB DDR4) and finished the build. I can boot to my desktop (Windows 10) but I can do gently caress all from there.

If I try to launch any application, nothing happens. If I press Ctrl Alt Del, the blue lock screen comes up immediately, but if I click Task Manager I'm returned to my desktop and nothing opens.

I can open my Start Menu and if I go to Shut Down, nothing happens.

Ctrl Alt Del again and choose Shut Down or Restart from that little button in the bottom right corner and I'm taken to a blue screen with the loading icon that says "Shutting Down" and it just hangs there forever.

I had Windows 7 and "upgraded" to 10 so I don't even have a Windows 10 disc to boot to.

Does this sound like a dying drive?

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