Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

CatelynIsAZombie posted:

My 860 came in from amazon with a crushed box is there anything I can benchmark it with to make sure it's functional? Also what're some of the recommended methods for transferring my boot disk from the hdd to sdd? Do they need to be the same size?

SSDs don't suffer from getting knocked around the way HDDs do so if you can plug it in and it boots you should be completely fine. Use a tool like CrystalDiskMark if you want to benchmark performance.

There's a bunch of different tools for cloning a drive, Macrium Reflect Free usually gets recommended in this thread. Your original drive doesn't need to be the exact same size as your new drive, but things get more complicated if it's bigger than your new drive.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013


Since it is a Samsung use magician. Completely stressless with the transfer only a couple clicks away.

CatelynIsAZombie
Nov 16, 2006

I can't wait to bomb DO-DON-GOES!


I would use magician, but there's a maximum daily download limit. If I end up updating the firmware on the disc will I have to reformat it?

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013


You don't have enough data to download 30MB + 36MB for migration? Did your drive come with a CD?

https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct...download/tools/

Run magician first to for any firmware updates(Unlikely) then use the migration tool. It will wipe the destination SSD and completely leave your source drive untouched. The migration is completely painless. You don't have to do the update unless it was something critical like the 840 bug. No one has heard anything so feel free to use just the migration tool. You can always run an update later.

Afterwards you change the boot(EFI/BIOS) drive you're set. I suggest logically disabling/remove the old drive to as a boot test.

dedian
Sep 2, 2011


oohhboy posted:

You don't have enough data to download 30MB + 36MB for migration? Did your drive come with a CD?

https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct...download/tools/

Run magician first to for any firmware updates(Unlikely) then use the migration tool. It will wipe the destination SSD and completely leave your source drive untouched. The migration is completely painless. You don't have to do the update unless it was something critical like the 840 bug. No one has heard anything so feel free to use just the migration tool. You can always run an update later.

Afterwards you change the boot(EFI/BIOS) drive you're set. I suggest logically disabling/remove the old drive to as a boot test.

Samsung has a daily limit on number of downloads for Magician. Makes total sense :|

Edit: CatelynIsAZombie if you're OK downloading it from somewhere else it seems the latest(ish?) version is available elsewhere: https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/de...d_magician.html

Also you don't necessarily need to update firmware right now, nor should doing that require formatting.

dedian fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Nov 27, 2018

CatelynIsAZombie
Nov 16, 2006

I can't wait to bomb DO-DON-GOES!


Thanks for the help I cloned the boot disk with macrium and everything works I guess. Is a 100mb page file normal for an SSD?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


CatelynIsAZombie posted:

Thanks for the help I cloned the boot disk with macrium and everything works I guess. Is a 100mb page file normal for an SSD?

assuming you are talking windows virtual memory, a 100mb page file just means you booted the os recently and it hasn't needed to page anything out of ram yet.

with old HDDs there was potentially some benefit to static size page files but that's not really the case with SSDs, just stick with the system managed size.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

If it's a 100MB partition on the drive that's probably the EFI partition, just leave it alone or you're going to have trouble booting.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


isndl posted:

SSDs don't suffer from getting knocked around the way HDDs do so if you can plug it in and it boots you should be completely fine. Use a tool like CrystalDiskMark if you want to benchmark performance.

There's a bunch of different tools for cloning a drive, Macrium Reflect Free usually gets recommended in this thread. Your original drive doesn't need to be the exact same size as your new drive, but things get more complicated if it's bigger than your new drive.

I've used Reflect many times before successfully, but just a couple days ago I was unable to get a bootable cloned partition on my Skull Canyon NUC. I originally had 2x 500 GB 850 Evos in RAID0 and wanted to go to a single SX8200 for the OS; the system booted on the new SSD but went to the recovery screen and couldn't repair itself. I reluctantly reinstalled Windows, which is OK because I didn't have that much installed but configuring it to work with an eGPU takes some effort. Does anybody know what I did wrong here?

Lambert
Apr 14, 2018
If you can read this, I'm posting in bad faith.


Fallen Rib

I've been trying to update Samsung Magician to the latest version for a few days now. Every time I try to download, I get the "daily download limit" message. Having a global limit on the number of allowed downloads per day is simply sad, especially for a company as big as Samsung.

crazypenguin
Mar 9, 2005
nothing witty here, move along

I finally upgraded a 2500K desktop (P67 chipset) to an SSD, and just thought I'd drop a small bit of advice here:

1. Macrium Reflect just works perfectly.
2. I had disappointing benchmark numbers. It seemed suspiciously like SATA 2 speeds, but I was plugging into the right port for SATA 3...

It turns out #2 was because my BIOS was in IDE mode, and you have to switch to AHCI mode, but that breaks windows without a little bit of jiggling.

Just in case anyone else might be suffering from that problem, here's the instructions I followed to fix the issue: http://triplescomputers.com/blog/un...ahci-operation/

Suddenly the SeqQ32 benchmark in crystal disk mark went from 300 MB/s to 562 MB/s. Much better.

eames
May 9, 2009



Ananadtech posted their Samsung 860 QVO review.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1363...-qvo-ssd-review

check out the size of the PCB inside the case, heh.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

Yeah, shows where the gap between NVME and SATA prices are going. It's all the controller, there's not much miniaturization going on.

CatelynIsAZombie
Nov 16, 2006

I can't wait to bomb DO-DON-GOES!


Klyith posted:

assuming you are talking windows virtual memory, a 100mb page file just means you booted the os recently and it hasn't needed to page anything out of ram yet.

with old HDDs there was potentially some benefit to static size page files but that's not really the case with SSDs, just stick with the system managed size.

I'll have to do a fresh install then I think because macrium copied the static 100mb partition over to the new disk. Would it work if I ran the clone and just didn't select that partition for transfer or is that windows installation looking for that partition now.

isndl posted:

If it's a 100MB partition on the drive that's probably the EFI partition, just leave it alone or you're going to have trouble booting.

ok thanks

Lambert
Apr 14, 2018
If you can read this, I'm posting in bad faith.


Fallen Rib

A default Windows 10 GPT partition layout has three partitions, a 500 MB Recovery partition, a 100 MB EFI partition and the main partition containing the installation. The page file lives on the main partition, the other partitions (Recovery, EFI) have nothing to do with it. Don't touch anything, everything is as expected.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Quick M2 SSD question:

I just ordered a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB today and I've been looking over my motherboard and system to figure out if I'm going to change anything around when installing it.

My motherboard is a ASUS Z370-A.
My only PCI-E card is an RTX 2080 running in 16x mode.
My SATA drives are:
SATA_1: 128GB SSD (system drive)
SATA_2: 512GB SSD
SATA_3/4: paired 1TB platter drives in RAID1
SATA_5/6: optical drives grandfathered in from my last PC that I haven't used in ages anyway


The motherboard manual (and ASUS' website) are next to no help here. Newegg's specs on the motherboard say this:

quote:

1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (SATA mode & X4 PCIE mode)*1
1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (PCIE mode only)*2
*1. The M.2_1 socket shares SATA_1 port when use M.2 SATA mode device. Adjust BIOS settings to use a SATA device.
*2. The M.2_2 socket shares SATA_56 ports when use M.2 PCIE mode device in X4 mode. Adjust BIOS settings to use M.2 PCIE devices in X4 mode.

Does this mean that when M.2_1 is in PCI-E 4x mode that it does not use the SATA_1 port, and I will not need to make any modifications to my setup? Or is it badly worded, and I will need to use M.2_2 and remove my optical drives to run it in PCI-E 4x mode?

Kenshin fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Nov 29, 2018

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Kenshin posted:

Quick M2 SSD question:

I just ordered a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB today and I've been looking over my motherboard and system to figure out if I'm going to change anything around when installing it.

My motherboard is a ASUS Z370-A.
My only PCI-E card is an RTX 2080 running in 16x mode.
My SATA drives are:
SATA_1: 128GB SSD (system drive)
SATA_2: 512GB SSD
SATA_3/4: paired 1TB platter drives in RAID0
SATA_5/6: optical drives grandfathered in from my last PC that I haven't used in ages anyway


The motherboard manual (and ASUS' website) are next to no help here. Newegg's specs on the motherboard say this:


Does this mean that when M.2_1 is in PCI-E 4x mode that it does not use the SATA_1 port, and I will not need to make any modifications to my setup? Or is it badly worded, and I will need to use M.2_2 and remove my optical drives to run it in PCI-E 4x mode?

Yeah if you want to swap it for your 128GB system drive then you are fine to run it in M.2_1. M.2_1 is either SATA m.2 or pcie, whereas M.2_2 is ONLY pcie. So you would be fine plugging into either.

If you want to macrium reflect onto the new drive you’d have to move your system drive, perhaps temporarily displace the optical one. Or just do a fresh install. Good to keep the old system drive around for stuff you forgot though.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


priznat posted:

Yeah if you want to swap it for your 128GB system drive then you are fine to run it in M.2_1. M.2_1 is either SATA m.2 or pcie, whereas M.2_2 is ONLY pcie. So you would be fine plugging into either.

If you want to macrium reflect onto the new drive you’d have to move your system drive, perhaps temporarily displace the optical one. Or just do a fresh install. Good to keep the old system drive around for stuff you forgot though.
Ok, so to be clear, since I do not want to replace my system drive (it boots the OS plenty fast and I only reboot once every month or so anyway) I should connect it to M.2_2 and I must disconnect the optical drives from SATA_5/6? This is intended to be a drive that houses only games. My photos and videos are on the mirrored RAID (and stage off the 512GB SSD)

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Kenshin posted:

Ok, so to be clear, since I do not want to replace my system drive (it boots the OS plenty fast and I only reboot once every month or so anyway) I should connect it to M.2_2 and I must disconnect the optical drives from SATA_5/6? This is intended to be a drive that houses only games. My photos and videos are on the mirrored RAID (and stage off the 512GB SSD)

You should consider replacing the 128GB system drive with your expensive new fast and huge NVMe drive. Also RAID 0 isn't mirrored so you might want to check on that.

Aside from the unwanted advice I believe your post is correct based on what you posted from the motherboard manual.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Rexxed posted:

You should consider replacing the 128GB system drive with your expensive new fast and huge NVMe drive. Also RAID 0 isn't mirrored so you might want to check on that.

Aside from the unwanted advice I believe your post is correct based on what you posted from the motherboard manual.

You're right, RAID1. Bit rusty on this stuff.

I'll probably end up replacing the 128GB with a second M2 drive in the next few months. For now though this new one will be just for games.

Reaaaally don't feel like doing a new system install right now.

Kenshin fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Nov 29, 2018

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Kenshin posted:

You're right, RAID1. Bit rusty on this stuff.

I'll probably end up replacing the 128GB with a second M2 drive in the next few months. For now though this new one will be just for games.

Reaaaally don't feel like doing a new system install right now.

Just image it over and expand the partition with macrium reflect free or whatever. If you're planning to change it out soon anyway then it doesn't really matter, though.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Kenshin posted:

Ok, so to be clear, since I do not want to replace my system drive (it boots the OS plenty fast and I only reboot once every month or so anyway) I should connect it to M.2_2 and I must disconnect the optical drives from SATA_5/6? This is intended to be a drive that houses only games. My photos and videos are on the mirrored RAID (and stage off the 512GB SSD)

Yes, you're going to lose one of SATA1 or SATA5/6 depending on which socket you use.

Definitely look into imaging with macrium and just replacing your 128GB though! Try it out, it won't destroy the original system disk so you can always go back. 128GB for boot drive and the rest for games..

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


priznat posted:

Yes, you're going to lose one of SATA1 or SATA5/6 depending on which socket you use.

Definitely look into imaging with macrium and just replacing your 128GB though! Try it out, it won't destroy the original system disk so you can always go back. 128GB for boot drive and the rest for games..

Honestly the drive is cheap enough that if things go well I'll just order the 512GB one for a system drive next month, so I'll just do it then. Thank you both for the help! It's appreciated and saves me from an hour or two of trying different settings.

filthychimp
Jan 2, 2006
Damned dirty ape

Kenshin posted:

Quick M2 SSD question:

Does this mean that when M.2_1 is in PCI-E 4x mode that it does not use the SATA_1 port, and I will not need to make any modifications to my setup? Or is it badly worded, and I will need to use M.2_2 and remove my optical drives to run it in PCI-E 4x mode?

It talks about the storage configuration at the very beginning of the manual, under the storage specs summary (page x). If you plug in an NVME card in M2_1, it will not disable any SATA ports at all. If you plug in a SATA M.2 card in there, it disables SATA_1.

If you plug in any device in M2_2, it disables SATA_5 and SATA_6.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


filthychimp posted:

It talks about the storage configuration at the very beginning of the manual, under the storage specs summary (page x). If you plug in an NVME card in M2_1, it will not disable any SATA ports at all. If you plug in a SATA M.2 card in there, it disables SATA_1.

If you plug in any device in M2_2, it disables SATA_5 and SATA_6.

Oh poo poo, I missed that--the actual M2 section had nothing useful. That is good news indeed.

Thank you for clearing that up.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

Your biggest fastest drive should be your boot drive. Throw the 128 gb in the trash. I have simplified your issue.

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009


LRADIKAL posted:

Your biggest fastest drive should be your boot drive. Throw the 128 gb in the trash. I have simplified your issue.

128gb is fine for a boot drive. In fact, it's drat near perfect. Any kind of recovery is easier when your data isn't on your boot drive. If both drives are a SSD, you won't notice the difference.

Also Raid0 is the perfect way to backup your data, that way you can make sure the important things are safe.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

Disagreed. Your fastest drive should be your boot drive. Everything should be backed up anyway, so why worry about running out of space?

RAID IS NOT A BACKUP.

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009


That's not the kind of recovery I'm talking about. Backing up your OS state is more often than not worthless, because you're facing a reinstall when Microsoft fucks up again, and not having to care about important files on the boot drive is great.

Also, using Raid0 instead of backups gives you certainty about the state of your files in the case of a device failure, and if you're using Raid0 and not backups, you won't lose anything important when the device fails, so the end outcome is the same.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

endlessmonotony posted:

128gb is fine for a boot drive. In fact, it's drat near perfect. Any kind of recovery is easier when your data isn't on your boot drive. If both drives are a SSD, you won't notice the difference.

Also Raid0 is the perfect way to backup your data, that way you can make sure the important things are safe.

Unless you routinely have to flatten your Windows installation, forcing yourself to save files to another drive doesn't help much because that drive is still susceptible to failure. Back up critical data to multiple drives, or use a cloud service that handles it for you. If you have proper backups, recovering data is just as easy regardless of whether you have one big drive or separate ones. Installing apps to a second drive also tends to suck if you do reinstall Windows because now you have a whole lot of programs without expected registry entries and it's a giant mess where you have to reinstall all the apps anyways, might as well go for the complete clean install.

Raid0 is the worst way to back up your data because it has zero redundancy (i.e. if any drive in the array fails all data is lost). You may be thinking of Raid1 which mirrors the data on each disk, but you don't use Raid1 with mismatched drives - that 128GB SSD would limit you to a 128GB RAID1 array. LRADIKAL is right in that the old SSD should go into the trash, unless there's an old laptop or something lying around that could use a free upgrade.

eames
May 9, 2009



endlessmonotony posted:

using Raid0 instead of backups gives you certainty about the state of your files in the case of a device failure

This part is correct!

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


endlessmonotony posted:

128gb is fine for a boot drive. In fact, it's drat near perfect.

I've traditionally said that 128 GB is OK as the bare minimum for an OS drive, but SSDs are getting very cheap nowadays and higher capacities have better performance and endurance.

endlessmonotony posted:

Any kind of recovery is easier when your data isn't on your boot drive. If both drives are a SSD, you won't notice the difference.

True; am I the only one who remembers how back in the day once we started getting several-GB drives it was commonplace to partition them? I distinctly remember dividing an 80 GB Maxtor into 4x 20 GB partitions, and nowadays nobody seems to blink at leaving a 8 TB HDD intact. But yes, being able to isolate your system drive and user data is quite prudent. That makes an OS reinstall as painless as possible.

endlessmonotony posted:

Also Raid0 is the perfect way to backup your data, that way you can make sure the important things are safe.

endlessmonotony posted:

Also, using Raid0 instead of backups gives you certainty about the state of your files in the case of a device failure, and if you're using Raid0 and not backups, you won't lose anything important when the device fails, so the end outcome is the same.

Don't troll about RAID being backup. Backups are extra copies of data, as physically/geographically isolated as possible (as appropriate for the value of said data.) If your RAID0 system gets hit by crypto-ransomware then you lose everything (unless you pay up, possibly.)

isndl posted:

Unless you routinely have to flatten your Windows installation, forcing yourself to save files to another drive doesn't help much because that drive is still susceptible to failure. Back up critical data to multiple drives, or use a cloud service that handles it for you. If you have proper backups, recovering data is just as easy regardless of whether you have one big drive or separate ones. Installing apps to a second drive also tends to suck if you do reinstall Windows because now you have a whole lot of programs without expected registry entries and it's a giant mess where you have to reinstall all the apps anyways, might as well go for the complete clean install.

This is a good point, although nowadays it doesn't appear to be that big of an issue. I've found that games in particular don't really care where/when they were installed, most of the ones I've played don't need to be installed directly from that OS instance; you can often just copy over the files to a new system and run it there (although if it saves data to a user folder that could be a problem.) For Steam you can install it next to the OS but keep the libraries on separate volumes.

isndl posted:

LRADIKAL is right in that the old SSD should go into the trash, unless there's an old laptop or something lying around that could use a free upgrade.

A used 128 GB SSD is probably worth <$20 nowadays, but I'd hang onto it as a HDD-replacement for an old system or something, or you can use it to cache an HDD, or you can buy a <$10 enclosure and turn it into a fast flash drive.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


SSD Thread: Raid0 is the perfect way to backup your data

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



SSDs are so reliable I just use four of them in Raid 0+0.



We don't talk about the fifth one.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


endlessmonotony posted:

That's not the kind of recovery I'm talking about. Backing up your OS state is more often than not worthless, because you're facing a reinstall when Microsoft fucks up again, and not having to care about important files on the boot drive is great.

Also, using Raid0 instead of backups gives you certainty about the state of your files in the case of a device failure, and if you're using Raid0 and not backups, you won't lose anything important when the device fails, so the end outcome is the same.

I don't know if you're trolling, but please stop telling people to use raid0 when you're clearly referring to raid1. It's actually a pretty dangerous error to make.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

SSD Thread: Raid0 is the perfect way to backup your data

Huh, what a good title just sitting out there.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


I ran a Raid0 off some enterprise HDDs many years when cost per gig on SSDs meant boot drive only without exceptions FOR EVERYBODY.

The array never actually broke but windows updates would cause false positive RST errors and it just wasn't worth the trouble anymore.

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009


HalloKitty posted:

I don't know if you're trolling, but please stop telling people to use raid0 when you're clearly referring to raid1. It's actually a pretty dangerous error to make.

I'm not referring to Raid1 because all it does is give you a false sense of security.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

endlessmonotony posted:

I'm not referring to Raid1 because all it does is give you a false sense of security.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd1ciPnTGKg

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

"You can RAID 5 with a minimum of three drives!"

I wonder, if as SSDs get cheaper and flood the marketplace, if large HDDs will get more expensive since they'll be getting bought less. Most consumer-bought and OEM-included HDDs are only ~1-2TB. The only people buying the 6TB+ drives are NAS users, anime hoarders, and people running servers - be they personal, professional, or corporate.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply