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BlazeEmblem posted:Same. I had to look up what the answer was, because I kept getting it wrong. Its less that she thought it was significant and more that she mentioned it at all. Like Hijame said, he NEVER mentioned the camera angle, and the only people who saw the fake hanging to be aware of what the angle was at all were Hajime(Who saw it on tape) and the killer(who broadcast it). Ergo, by bringing it up at all Mikan was using knowledge only the killer would possess and therefore is the killer.
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Aug 10, 2017 01:36
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Huh. Yeah, Junko's gang was kind of a thing before the secret dimensional worst thing in the universe. I wonder if they got to her. Though... it'd be weird if she was the traitor, considering again that we're probably not at the end yet.
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Aug 10, 2017 01:40
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I certainly hope that in the post-trial scene, they explain Mikan's how trait of being super-clumsy was not a factor in pulling off this incredibly precise series of events. I mean, I'm pretty sure that she must have been faking being clumsy the whole time, but they have to confirm it.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:02
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Eh, maybe it comes up in her
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Aug 10, 2017 05:43
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Or maybe this is the only thing she's not clumsy at, because ultimate nurse and all.
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Aug 10, 2017 06:05
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She's Comedy Clumsy - the kind where you walk into a room with a box of syringes, trip so the syringes fly at the patient - and form a perfect outline of the patient on the wall behind them, all of them just missing him.
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Aug 10, 2017 06:22
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Pretty much what BioEnchanted said.
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Aug 10, 2017 07:19
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Wasn't the whole reason that she had to kill Ibuki and frame that death as the first was because she screwed up and got caught while in the middle of killing someone else?
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Aug 10, 2017 08:41
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DeliciousCookie posted:Wasn't the whole reason that she had to kill Ibuki and frame that death as the first was because she screwed up and got caught while in the middle of killing someone else? Because of the bloodstains, it seems like Mikan finished off Ibuki after Hiyoko was killed, but Ibuki was the intended victim.
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Aug 10, 2017 09:57
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Hiyoko was killed first (more than likely by Ibuki under Mikan's orders) and then Ibuki strangled in an attempt to set it up as a murder suicide. Which leaves me wondering... why cover up Hiyoko? She would've been out of frame anyway. Gluing up the door in advance would also help with setting up the room. Unveiling Hiyoko and closing the room after only makes it more obvious that the killer is still around.
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Aug 10, 2017 13:25
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Hiyoko was killed first (more than likely by Ibuki under Mikan's orders) and then Ibuki strangled in an attempt to set it up as a murder suicide. Hiyoko's murder was unplanned, so she probably just did that to make it more confusing.
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Aug 10, 2017 14:11
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DeliciousCookie posted:Wasn't the whole reason that she had to kill Ibuki and frame that death as the first was because she screwed up and got caught while in the middle of killing someone else? That's not really being clumsy so much as it is 'not planning for someone to walk into a music club at 3am or whatever'.
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Aug 10, 2017 14:37
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Glazius posted:Huh. Yeah, Junko's gang was kind of a thing before the secret dimensional worst thing in the universe. I wonder if they got to her. It certainly seems that way, with her saying that she knows the feeling of despair well. I feel kind of bad for Mikan, it seems like she was bullied until she finally snapped  ... but I won't be too sad to see her go, because the whole begging for abuse thing is really loving creepy. Plus I liked Ibuki, why couldn't she just kill Saionji  I wonder if we have one or two more "normal" cases before it all escalates and we figure the loose ends out... I really want to find out out why Fatogami was just offed without any big revelations (yet?) about what happened with him between games, and what Nagito's entire deal is.
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Aug 10, 2017 16:31
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Which leaves me wondering... why cover up Hiyoko? She would've been out of frame anyway. Gluing up the door in advance would also help with setting up the room. Unveiling Hiyoko and closing the room after only makes it more obvious that the killer is still around.
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Aug 10, 2017 19:17
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 : Like last time, if you'd like to watch this segment as a video to hear the voice clips and stuff, I've provided a link. Click here to watch this update's video!     : Now then, though it may be obvious at this point... : You got it right once again! That's like three in a row! That's right, the true identity of the horrifying blackened who killed two girls was Mikan Tsumiki!  : You gotta be...shittin' me... Are you sayin'...Mikan, the one who nursed us back to health...was the one who killed them...? : Don't joke around with me, Mikan! Did you lie to us all along!? Were you plannin' to kill them from the start while you were nursin' them!? : Hah...hahaha!  : D-Don't just laugh, say something! This is going nowhere!: Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. : Th-This chick...! : This is nothing like Peko... She's actually...gone mental...!  : There's nothing we can do. She's no longer the same person. She's...no longer the Mikan Tsumiki we knew. : ...Huh? : Based on my predictions... She might've caught it, too. She probably had the Despair Disease, which was the motive for this case...   : Mikan, too...you say...? : I know because I was looking at Mikan for so long. She was the one taking care of me, after all. My consciousness kept drifting but even so, when I did catch a glimpse of her, her expression was... : Full of despair. A despair so devoid of hope that not even a single fragment of it remained.: H-Hold on... Did you say...Mikan also had the Despair Disease...? Then...that means she was...!: Huh? Hajime, has something crossed your mind?   My body's heavy... No, not just heavy...it's somewhat soft and...really hot... : The game actually gets this wrong here! It was the second time that Mikan woke Hajime up that he noted how hot she felt, not the first. : That's right...Mikan felt really hot at that time... Now that I think about it, that must've been... A high fever...just like what Ibuki and Akane had... : Then...because of that disease, Mikan was...? : The symptoms that she surely felt must've been deserving of the name, Despair Disease. Losing all hope...and harboring despair for all hope... Because of the Despair Disease, she was likely overcome with despair. : That's the reason why...she can still laugh in such a hopeless situation.: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.: Which means the Mikan standing before us is no longer the Ultimate Nurse. She's a completely different person now that she's infected by the Despair Disease...   : She's a human who deserves to be called the Ultimate Despair!Ultimate...Despair...!? : Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.: That's the reason why...I cannot forgive this. I mean, killing someone for the sake of despair, instead of for the sake of hope... : There's no way I can forgive that.  : For the sake of despair...?: Haha, that's completely wrong! : ...Wrong? Wrong...what's wrong? ♪ Music cuts out. ♪  : What I did...was for the sake of my beloved.  : ...Huh? : Wh-Who are you talking about...?  : If only they were still alive... They'd be so happy. ...I know.  : My beloved...was the only one... That's right, the only one who...never hated me. They forgave my existence. They forgave me and accepted me. They gave me value. They loved me. I loved them with all my heart and they returned it in full.: This is...my reciprocation. : I understand that I've done something unforgivable. But you know, but you know! To transcend all that is truly...: ...what love is all about! : I don't understand...what you're saying.: You don't understand? Is it because you don't have anyone to love? Is it because you're also someone who isn't accepted by anyone?: ...What a pity. I feel sorry for you. : ...: Even if I say this...I'm sure nobody here would understand but... Love is a wonderful thing. : Ahhh, this feeling of freedom where you no longer care about anything!: My beloved and I are the only ones within that thin veil, and I'm just looking out through it...: That's why...as long as I'm on the inside, no matter how much they tease me, splash me with water, kick me...: It's like nothing matters! I could just die, that's how little it matters! Who cares about hope or despair! It's love, only love!  : Nagito...is this really the Despair Disease you were talking about?: It seems that...I was wrong... Not only was she affected by despair...: You were half right. It's right to say that this is all thanks to that disease. Because...thanks to that disease, I was able to remember my beloved.: Re...member...?: Apparently that's what my symptom was. Haha...what a wonderful symptom... : Which means you had...the Remembering Disease?  : But if this means she remembered something and ended up like this...: Are you saying you were like this from the start? Were you like this before you even came to this island? : D-Don't get so angry...! Well...first of all...: The reason I became like this wasn't my fault. It was all your fault, you know? Because...it's not like I'm entirely responsible for turning out like this... I'm the person I am today because of many human relationships. So...it's everybody's fault that I turned out like this, you see?: Even so...the current me was most strongly influenced by my beloved's existence. And it was also my beloved who created the me that everyone can't forgive. But my beloved still forgives me and accepts me... That is the key difference between all of you and my beloved. : Like I said...who the gently caress are you talking about!?: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.Are you saying...this is Mikan...? She's...the *real* Mikan...? : Mikan...please answer me... Did you really remember? You ended up like this...all because you remembered? : There's no way I can believe that! There's no way...the person you are right now is the real Mikan...!: Ohhh... You still doubt me...? Then...to prove I remember, I'll tell you all something nice!: It's about that World Ender organization that you all were worrying about.: You know!?: Not know... I just remembered, that's all. I knew about it all along. How that horrifying organization known as "World Ender"...♪ Music cuts out. ♪ : ...Is also the organization known as the Future Foundation.Future Foundation...?   That's right...that symbol on the ancient ruin's door... That's right... It was...the Japanese world for "future"...  : ...: Just what is the Future Foundation? What are they planning?: As the name suggests, that organization is the "World Ender". The Future Foundation...is trying to end out world. To put it simply... They're trying to claim the world for themselves. : Wh-What the heck...? This isn't a comic book, you know...!: As part of their plan to end the world, the Future Foundation...brought us to this island.: Isn't that right, Monomi? : ...Huh?: I-I knew it...! Monomi...Monokuma... They're both members of that crazy organization, aren't they? : Puhuhu. Monomi and I aren't members.: I am Monokuma! My existence is entirely my own!: Puhuhuhuhu.: Puhuhuhuhu. : Don't laugh. Hey Mikan... If you really do remember... Then you already know, right? You know the true identity of the traitor hiding among us.: Ahaha, of course I know that! Let's see...the Future Foundation lackey that's hiding among you all...is...: ...Oh well, no one really cares about that, don't you think? : AW HELLLLL NOOOOO! : You'll find out eventually...so there's no need to be so impatient. Probably...when that countdown ends.Countdown...!? : You...you even know about that...!?: I don't know anything.: ...Huh? : I have a feeling that's what it is, but...who cares about that, you know?: I'm drowning in so much love... From the bottom of my heart, I just don't care about anyone or anything.: M-Mikan...! Is this really you!? : I-I won't believe it...! There's no way I can believe...you were like this all along... Because...if that's true...! : Then who's the person we've been spending time with up until now!?♪ Music cuts out. ♪  : ...The past.: ...P-Past? : That person... She didn't exist in the beginning... She's just my past self who lost her school memories...: Haha...you guys considered that thing a friend.: *Sigh*...That doesn't make me happy at all. It just fills me with despair. You guys accepted my past self, but not my present self...: Th-That's...!: Well...that applies to you all as well. Memories of people...memories of events... Whatever memory is, losing memories are...: ...like losing your personal identity. Memory is the most important component in building a person... Don't you think? Losing our memories...makes us shadows of the past. Don't you think? : I don't know what you're trying to say but... In the end, it always leads back to that story. That story about our stolen school lives...: So...it was true all along... Our memories were taken away!: If it wasn't true... We wouldn't be suffering this much...!: Well, why don't you just take your sweet time and remember at your own pace?♪ Music cuts out. ♪ : Oh Monokuuuuuuuma... Is it all right for you to start now?: ...Punishment time?: Dammit...why...? Mikan! Why does it have to end like this!? This...is too pointless... This...is too much...!   : Now then, I have prepared a special punishment for the Ultimate Nurse, Mikan Tsumiki. : So it's over. It's really... : Now I can go to my beloved who always forgives me...! I can finally see them. : Please forgive me, the one who's going to die with the hope of finally seeing you! : Let's give it everything we've got! It's...PUNISHMENT TIIIME! CLICK HERE FOR THE VIDEO 
FPzero fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 23:18
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quote:Everyone: Having Mikan kill someone because she contracted the despair disease would be a disappointing cop-out. That sure was an execution though 
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Aug 10, 2017 23:39
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I feel vaguely dirty having watched it.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:09
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Hmm, a rocketship. Was her beloved the headmaster? Also, I bet I know who's dying next, based on what someone in the thread mentioned earlier. If so, the artists must have caught the Laziness Disease. My guess: Chiaki and Nekomaru. Nekomaru might already be dead. I doubt anyone will die after them, since that would make that picture off-center.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:13
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Uhh... what? Also, I hate that "I know who the spy/mole/traitor is but I'm not telling" poo poo. Just have her not mention it at all, this way it's just frustrating.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:21
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Likely why she did it that way.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:34
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Actually, Mikan killing because she remembered her real self is definitely better than an always-nice Mikan murdering because her sanity switch was flipped to reverse. I guess the closest we'll get for an explanation for why Mikan could do all that in such a short time is that with her real memories returned, she wasn't clumsy? But by now I guess I shouldn't be surprised at absurd timelines and somewhat disappointing resolutions.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:53
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[quote="Stabbey_the_Clown" post=""475243767"] I guess the closest we'll get for an explanation for why Mikan could do all that in such a short time is that with her real memories returned, she wasn't clumsy? But by now I guess I shouldn't be surprised at absurd timelines and somewhat disappointing resolutions. [/quote] I think it's implied that she fakes the clumsiness for attention, but maybe there's stuff on that in her free time and I'm wrong.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:59
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Yeah, memories were the thing in the last case too. ...Hope's Peak worked like poo poo, didn't it? Unless it was a secret murderous rage factory.
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Aug 11, 2017 01:05
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I guess the closest we'll get for an explanation for why Mikan could do all that in such a short time is that with her real memories returned, she wasn't clumsy? But by now I guess I shouldn't be surprised at absurd timelines and somewhat disappointing resolutions. Remember that she didn't have to do much in the 10 min between when Hajime found the first body and when they found the second. When Hajime left, she pulled down the wallpaper, folded it, and placed it back, but in a rush, so she tore it. That takes 2 min, maybe? Then she smashes the camera, which would take less than a minute. Then she breaks the drumstick, and glues the door. 2 minutes, at max. So she needs about 5 minutes, since she was rushing through all of this to get out in time. That gives her enough time to meet Fuyuhiko, do the stuff at the music venue, and meet back up with Fuyuhiko, all within 10 minutes. She was fast, but there wasn't much to do.
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Aug 11, 2017 01:52
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FPzero posted:
So, what, Mikan was secretly Junko or Mukuro in an elaborate disguise (and somehow not dead)? Or were there more Ultimate Despairs than those two?
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Aug 11, 2017 01:58
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Actually, Mikan killing because she remembered her real self is definitely better than an always-nice Mikan murdering because her sanity switch was flipped to reverse. Yeah, if it was going to be Despair Disease then it's much better that it was just unleashing the real her. Also very creepy. BlazeEmblem posted:Remember that she didn't have to do much in the 10 min between when Hajime found the first body and when they found the second. She also had to hide all of the conference room stage stuff, particularly the stepstool. It does strain credibility a bit.
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Aug 11, 2017 02:15
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BlazeEmblem posted:Remember that she didn't have to do much in the 10 min between when Hajime found the first body and when they found the second. I mentioned this a few times: It's not just what she had to do at the music club that matters. The clock started ticking the moment she started filming the video. In addition to the music club stuff, she ALSO had to hide the stepladder, robe, bag and candle somewhere that was difficult enough that a search wouldn't find them, and put her arm bandages back on. That will also take a few minutes. She also was delayed a bit meeting Kuzuryu outside the hospital before she could even head towards the music club. Her list of things to do was much longer than Hajime's list, and they took more time as well. But there's not much point arguing this anymore, the execution is over. I'll just chalk this up to another instance of the writers playing fast and loose with timings.
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Aug 11, 2017 02:51
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Glazius posted:...Hope's Peak worked like poo poo, didn't it? Unless it was a secret murderous rage factory. Standard mad science failing really. "We're gathering the ultimate talents from all around the world! Even the ones that are blatantly criminals! Oh poo poo, one of them's a nihilistic psychopath! Oh poo poo her Talent makes her absurdly good at manipulating people! And now everybody's dead. How could we have possibly prevented this?".
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Aug 11, 2017 04:56
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Truthkeeper posted:So, what, Mikan was secretly Junko or Mukuro in an elaborate disguise (and somehow not dead)? Or were there more Ultimate Despairs than those two? I always thought her beloved was Junko so she was basically Ultimate Despair by proxy
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Aug 11, 2017 05:21
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Well... that was.. a thing... Hmm... you know, my gut tells me that the "future foundation" aren't bad guys... if the "real" Mikan is a crazy psycho... then perhaps that's true of the rest and this island and the memory removal was an attempt at rehabilitation? Hmm... we'll have to wait and see I suppose. Perhaps I'm just oddly inclined to think well of a group with the word "future" in the name. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Aug 11, 2017 11:12
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FPzero posted:
happy
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Aug 11, 2017 12:18
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That execution is so loving weird. The only way I could make sense of it was as a metaphor for lethal injection. She gets an orgasmic (Mikan, creeper to the last, is naked for a split-second right before the arm rocket takes off) injection that gets her so high that she simply fades away into the nothingness of space.Rarity posted:I always thought her beloved was Junko so she was basically Ultimate Despair by proxy Yeah, it's gotta be. Her dead lover was someone who would have been pleased by a despair-induced murder spree, and would have been angry about Mikan dying filled with hope. Can't think of many who fit that description. And, I mean, could you imagine what the first meeting between Mikan and Junko would look like?  Tee hee, I'm so clumsy, Hiyoko broke my finger! She's such a good friend to pay attention to me like that. Oh, wow, could I exploit you or what.
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Aug 11, 2017 13:05
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dancingbears posted:That execution is so loving weird. The only way I could make sense of it was as a metaphor for lethal injection. She gets an orgasmic (Mikan, creeper to the last, is naked for a split-second right before the arm rocket takes off) injection that gets her so high that she simply fades away into the nothingness of space. You know, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to interpret this execution for a long time now since it seemed so out there compared to the rest we've seen in both games. It's probably because other than the needle arm rocket, there's not much tying the execution into her character or what we've just learned about her. Everyone else was like that: Leon was killed by baseballs, Mondo while on a bike, Celeste was burned at the stake (and smashed), Alter Ego was crushed, Teruteru was battered and fried, Peko was killed in a swordfight--Mikan was...sent into space on a needle rocket? But if it's a metaphor for what's happening to her (or hell, even if it's a literal interpretation of a metaphor happening to her) I can finally make that connection I've been missing. Who knows if that's what's actually happening to her. But it's a lot more satisfying an answer than "she randomly goes to space".
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Aug 11, 2017 14:24
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FPzero posted:You know, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to interpret this execution for a long time now since it seemed so out there compared to the rest we've seen in both games. It's probably because other than the needle arm rocket, there's not much tying the execution into her character or what we've just learned about her. Everyone else was like that: Leon was killed by baseballs, Mondo while on a bike, Celeste was burned at the stake (and smashed), Alter Ego was crushed, Teruteru was battered and fried, Peko was killed in a swordfight--Mikan was...sent into space on a needle rocket? But if it's a metaphor for what's happening to her (or hell, even if it's a literal interpretation of a metaphor happening to her) I can finally make that connection I've been missing. I was kind of worried that Monokuma was going to finish the Wizard of Monomi 2.5 pattern of deaths and we'd get a really gruesome execution, so I was very, very surprised up til the last second of this one. I'm pretty impressed with the voice acting in this localization! I actually started to like Mikan after her heel turn and I think it's 100% because of her VA's work. It's a shame it had to happen moments before her character's death. :/
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Aug 11, 2017 15:07
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FPzero posted:You know, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to interpret this execution for a long time now since it seemed so out there compared to the rest we've seen in both games. It's probably because other than the needle arm rocket, there's not much tying the execution into her character or what we've just learned about her. Everyone else was like that: Leon was killed by baseballs, Mondo while on a bike, Celeste was burned at the stake (and smashed), Alter Ego was crushed, Teruteru was battered and fried, Peko was killed in a swordfight--Mikan was...sent into space on a needle rocket? But if it's a metaphor for what's happening to her (or hell, even if it's a literal interpretation of a metaphor happening to her) I can finally make that connection I've been missing. I wonder if there's some Japanese pun hidden in the execution?
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Aug 11, 2017 16:15
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timp posted:I'm pretty impressed with the voice acting in this localization! I actually started to like Mikan after her heel turn and I think it's 100% because of her VA's work. It's a shame it had to happen moments before her character's death. :/ That's what happened with Celeste for me, the accent switching made me super impressed with the VA.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:47
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Carbon dioxide posted:I wonder if there's some Japanese pun hidden in the execution? Not sure about Japan, but 'la petit mort' (The little death) is a colloquial expression for an Orgasm
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Aug 11, 2017 18:06
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timp posted:I'm pretty impressed with the voice acting in this localization! I actually started to like Mikan after her heel turn and I think it's 100% because of her VA's work. It's a shame it had to happen moments before her character's death. :/ Same with Byakuya in the first game for me. When we first heard his voice, it sounded uncaring, and it was thought that it was just bad voice work. Then in trial 4, his shock that Sakura killed herself changed the tone of his voice, and it was clear that his voice acting during the first half of the game was completely intentional.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:53
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I just thought of something: Everyone involved in the murder of Fuyuhiko's sister is now dead. He no longer has anyone to be pissed off at or take revenge on. I think he's pretty safe from being killed: he has no motive to kill anyone, and no one would dare attack him.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:31
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Double Punctuation posted:I just thought of something: Everyone involved in the murder of Fuyuhiko's sister is now dead. He no longer has anyone to be pissed off at or take revenge on. I think he's pretty safe from being killed: he has no motive to kill anyone, and no one would dare attack him. Maybe. He was originally written to die at the Peko execution, but was spared so Hiyoko was killed in his place.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:45
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