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I'm glad that the Old Lady Hound was picked. It's probably my favorite portrait because of how different it is compared to most portraits and it'd be a waste of a good portrait if it wasn't used in a EOV LP.
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# ? Jan 18, 2021 01:57 |
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We're coming to the end of the list of characters.![]() ![]() ![]() Dosen (submitted by Level Seven) is gonna be our healer Herbalist. Just Masurao left. Initial party results are: quote:Fencer: 3 Rea fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Are you going to be able to get by with just the Necromancer for healing skills? I haven't used one but it seems like it would be a bit rough without an Herbalist...
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I'm gonna vote for Herbalist because Brownies are adorable and every party needs one.
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Gram looks good! I'll throw in some votes for Fencer, Necromancer and Herbalist for the starting party.
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Warlock, Masurao, Fencer. Sometimes I think that me trying to make interesting, likeable characters with flaws and goals is pointless because people will always choose the option that allows for more jokes to be made. Then I realize: Oh, wait! Everyone hates me!
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Reaper, Dragoon, Cestus That's the front line I've been rolling with and it's been going somewhat okay for me.
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Reaper, Hound, Warlock Thanks for the EOU2 LP, and thanks to Dr. Fetus for showing that shitshow of a superboss. Question, can hounds work as single healers in this game, or do you need a
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Item Getter posted:Are you going to be able to get by with just the Necromancer for healing skills? I haven't used one but it seems like it would be a bit rough without an Herbalist... I'll admit to being disappointed the newest party members didn't have their classes reversed like I thought on first glance. An old woman who trained a bird to punch people for her, and a burly man who attacks by hurling dogs at the enemy both sounded like fine, fine ideas. But you did get two of the best portraits into the guild so I'll overlook it.
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Omobono posted:Question, can hounds work as single healers in this game, or do you need a I used a Hound as my sole healer for the entire game. I don't think a sole Necromancer would work. Maybe with a Reaper as backup. Clarste fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Technically you don't need a healer in any of the EO games (well, no idea about EO5), but how rough the going will get depends on the game. Doing so in say, EO4, is fairly doable while doing it in EO1 is practically suicidal, though ultimately possible.
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![]() ![]() ![]() And to finish off the initial characters, Jana (submitted by oB2Ko Mario) is going to be our Masurao. I'll be back home in around 6 hours or so, at which point I can start recording the first actual update. Hooray! Initial party vote results are: quote:Fencer: 5 I'll be leaving that open until I get home. What I won't be leaving open, though, is guild name voting--seems pretty clear to me that Nameless won by a pretty big margin. Omobono posted:Question, can hounds work as single healers in this game, or do you need a I've been using a dog-focused Hound on my second playthrough (independent of the LP) and it's worked out pretty well. Hell, on my first playthrough, I went without a healer at all for 3 strata and 2 stratum bosses and it worked out just fine.
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Junpei posted:Warlock, Masurao, Fencer. I had qualms about responding to you at all, but perhaps it would be ruder not to. A) Yes, most people hate it when you post. That's not specifically why your suggestions weren't chosen, but I'm glad you realize it. The next step would be to identify which parts of your behavior everyone hates. B) Neither of your characters had any flaws whatsoever. I'm not sure you realize what it even means for a character to have flaws, which is that there is something wrong with their personality that creates friction with other characters or interferes with their goals. A character who merely encounters obstacles to overcome is not flawed. Both of your suggestions were utterly flawless Gary Stu types, with impeccable combat skills yet also smart and artistic and kind to everyone who counts. At least one of them is obviously a self-insert based on the way you've described yourself in the past. C) Yes, you're right, we prioritized characters who could be funny and stand out. This is just an LP, not a novel, so we don't have time to go deeply into the characters' backstories or motivations since ultimately they're going to be participating in a story that has nothing to do with them (ie: climbing the tree). Not to mention we're starting with 10 characters and adding even more later, so the absolute deathblow to characterization would be someone who doesn't have an immediately distinctive personality or quirk. Specifically one that will show up in party banter. Someone whose personality is defined primarily as "polite" or "friendly" is going to fade into the background no matter how many pages of backstory they have. We chose the other arrogant, hyper-intelligent Warlock precisely because he would not be incredibly boring when talking to his teammates. Clarste fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Hey! Anyone who had their characters accepted, why not add me on Steam? It's always fun having: a) someone to bounce narrative stuff off of for second opinions and b) someone to babble about LP stuff to Also remember that I'll be using this Twitter thing to post when updates go live, in case SA isn't enough.
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sent you a friend request as jiirabe
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Oooh this looks exciting! Herbalist, Hound, Necromancer
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Dragoon, Hound, Herbalist
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Clarste posted:I had qualms about responding to you at all, but perhaps it would be ruder not to. Thank you for this enlightening post about myself, my characters and the way you choose. I will now proceed to lurk without posting on this thread. Bye.
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I don't care what classes are used as long as the best classes Cestus or Hound are in there.
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Final initial party results are:quote:Hound: 6 ...Well, uh, hm. By completely arbitrary decision from me, the initial party will be: Dragoon, Cestus, Reaper, Hound, Herbalist.
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I find this acceptable. Bring me my signet ring and wax!
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Sounds a lot better than the previous party though Hound is the only one I didn't use when playing the game. I'm guessing you are leaning towards a Hawk hound since it's together with an Herbalist?
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I have a question about Fencer's evasion-tanking. Do they do it more EO2U Protector style (I'm going to increase everyone's evasion for this turn), or is it more Beast-style (I'm going to make the enemy attack me and I'll dodge it)? Well, that's that promise broken, but I'll limit my self to questions and comments and general not-being-a-whiny-bitch stuff. No "But this would be so coooool" or anything like that.
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Junpei posted:I have a question about Fencer's evasion-tanking. Do they do it more EO2U Protector style (I'm going to increase everyone's evasion for this turn), or is it more Beast-style (I'm going to make the enemy attack me and I'll dodge it)? Both. They have skills that buff line/party evasion, as well as skills that taunt and increase their own evasion.
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Without getting into spoilers, are there any absurd gamebreakers in this like the old Immunize, Revenge, or Stigmata tricks?
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There's something equivalent to Warrior's Might from EO3 that can be absurd with the proper party set-up. That's the only one I've heard of.
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I am guessing that's why we are not getting one of the Masurao 2nd names? edit: Do game breakingly powerful enemies count? I can think of a few of those in this game. Item Getter fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Hope you guys don't mind some uh, preliminary fanart. It's Inktober and I wanted to draw something.![]() Something something why did you go for the skimpy bunnygirl blizzardvizard fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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blizzardvizard posted:Hope you guys don't mind some uh, preliminary fanart. It's Inktober and I wanted to draw something. I've already gone ahead and put that in the 2nd post! Also, to paraphrase the creator, he saw bunny ears and couldn't resist doing something related to magicians and/or circus performers. ![]()
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Mechanics: Ailments and Binds Ailments and binds have been a key part of the Etrian Odyssey series from the very beginning, and EO5 is no exception. Ailments and binds can very easily swing fights--even a single bind on a single party member or enemy can be the difference between victory and loss. That can be said for ailments in most RPGs, though. What makes EO different is that it doesn't make it impractical and/or impossible for the player to inflict disables on bosses and FOEs; in fact, disables are often the preferred method of making said enemies considerably easier to deal with, and a party that's completely devoid of being able to effectively inflict disables is at a massive disadvantage compared to the opposite. As for infliction mechanics, they're relatively simple. Every enemy has a set of resistances to disables, much like they do for damage. Remember that "resistances" means "multipliers," effectively--an enemy with 150% resistance to paralysis, for example, multiplies paralysis infliction chances by 1.5x. A 0% resistance, on the other hand, means "complete immunity." For stats used in calculating infliction chances, EO5 takes after EO2U and solely uses LUC. The way LUC is actually used beyond that is unknown, but it's generally safe to assume that an inflictor having lower LUC than the inflictee means the base chance will be reduced, equal LUC means no adjustment, and higher LUC means the base chance being increased. Each time an ailment/bind is inflicted, that enemy gains 30% resistance to that given bind/ailment for 8 turns--a mechanic known as "accumulative resistance." Accumulative resistance was introduced in EO3 as a way to compensate for ailments/binds becoming much easier to inflict compared to EO1/2. Accumulative resistance basically means that it becomes harder, if not impossible, to chain-disable a given enemy, and if you inflict a disable they're innately really resistant to (usually 25%), you just straight-up can't inflict that disable again until the accumulative resistance runs out. Now that that's out of the way, let's discuss the actual ailments and binds themselves! These are organized based on the ailment hierarchy, from lowest to highest. An ailment that's higher on the hierarchy cannot be overwritten with one that's lower. Binds are exempt from this hierarchy altogether. Skills that inflict blind:
Blind is one of the more unreliable and, dare I say it, boring disables. Lowering accuracy and disabling evasion is nice and all, but it's just not exciting. Also, it's unreliable, and it's almost always a serious mistake to assume that a blinded enemy can't still be a threat. On the other hand, having a party member be blinded pretty effectively shuts them down, since you should always assume a blinded party member will miss. Skills that inflict poison:
Poison is almost always far deadlier to our party than it is for enemies, although that mostly depends on which poison skill you're using and what enemies you're using it on. Scythe of Cruel Poison's actually an example of a really good poison skill, since 440 base damage means it ticks for a lot once your Reaper starts getting more and more levels--it's really drat good for bosses with adds, and hell, even inflicting it on bosses themselves can rack up quite a bit of damage. Poison Bomb's more useful for random encounters, due to its higher base chance but lower base damage. Poison Smoke is really "eh" between its low base chance and low base damage. Skills that inflict paralysis:
Paralysis is unreliable now that we don't have the "no action chance is now 99%" from EO2U. It's still decent, don't get me wrong, and it's not too heavily resisted by EO5's monster roster, but don't plan on the enemy losing all of their actions until it wears off. Paralysis when inflicted on your party members is a slightly bigger deal, since that can seriously screw with your action economy, and a support losing their turn can be a major problem. Skills that inflict panic:
Panic is extremely dangerous for both the player and the enemy, for reasons I really shouldn't have to state. The only real difference is that panicked enemies, depending on how hard they hit normally, are still very big dangers, just less big dangers than before. Skills that inflict sleep:
Sleep is pretty dangerous for both the player and the enemy, although quite a bit more for the player. Not only do asleep targets lose one or more turns, but taking amplified damage from STR-based sources can very easily kill a player character. For enemies, sleep's effectiveness mostly comes down to "how quickly does the sleep inflictor act", since you, fairly obviously, want to take advantage of the bonus damage. Sleep inflictors that act too fast basically just make enemies waste one turn, which isn't that great. Skills that inflict curse:
Curse is almost useless for the player due to how much damage enemies have to do kill us--half of that ends up being a pittance. Curse for the enemy, however, can SERIOUSLY screw us over, especially if it happens early in the turn and I queued up damage skills on damage dealers. Skills that can inflict petrification:
Petrification is a 100% complete disable, and incredibly dangerous for both the player and the enemy. Yes, it did get heavily reworked to be an actual ailment instead of glorified instant death, and it replaces curse (EO4) and fear (EOU/EO2U) as the highest ailment in the hierarchy. It's an absolute pain to inflict due to how powerful it can be--Alter requires that you wait 3 turns after casting before it hits, Gravestone Binding's base chance depends on how many ghosts the Necromancer destroys to cast it, and Smoke Solid requires that the enemy have a Smoke debuff. Skills that can instantly kill:
Instant death is near useless for the player unless you're doing some fun cheese strategies with Zombie Powder. For the enemy, instant death, in EO5, is basically almost always brought out as a way to ensure that the player dies to skills that only come out when they've screwed up. It's incredibly rare, even compared to past EOs. Skills that can stun:
Stun is...interesting. Its effectiveness depends entirely on how quickly the user can act before their target. For enemies, anything they do that can stun usually has some stupidly high speed modifier. For the player, all of the skills listed there have higher speed modifiers, but Warlocks and Herbalists have to contend with their base races' low/semi-low AGI. Stun Shot, on the other hand, is a 200% speed modifier on a race and class that's already super quick to begin with. Inflicting stun is another problem, though, since most bosses have 10% resistance to it. Skills that can inflict head bind:
Head binds affect basically all INT-based attacks, as well as some support skills. Head binds are usually incredibly crucial for some bosses (the 3rd Stratum boss can literally do nothing but basic attacks if you bind its head), and quite a few FOEs. For the player, head binds sting a little less than they used to, since Herbalist healing skills use the arms instead of the head now. Skills that can inflict arm bind:
Arm binds are quite a bit more dangerous for the player than they were in previous games, due to the fact that they shut down every damage dealer (except for Warlocks), and now also disable Herbalist healing skills. They're about the same for bosses as before--that is, arm binds shut early bosses down really hard, but lategame bosses start having a lot more head-based skills while still having some dangerous arm-based ones. Skills that can inflict leg bind:
Leg binds are slightly more dangerous than they were in previous EOs due to the fact that they now just full-on reduce AGI (meaning that they affect accuracy as well as turn order), but there's still the big problem of "very few skills for both the player and the enemy use the legs." Rea fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Ragnar Homsar posted:Leg binds are slightly more dangerous than they were in previous EOs due to the fact that they now just full-on reduce AGI (meaning that they affect accuracy as well as turn order), but there's still the big problem of "very few skills for both the player and the enemy use the I'm thinking you may have omitted something here.
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Genuinely no clue how that happened. It's fine in both of my source files. Fixed it, in any case.
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'Leg' in most EO games also stands for 'lower body,' so if the enemy model has a giant tail, leg binds are usually the way to nullify it. Not sure how applicable that is in EOV but the ability to make educated guesses about which binds will be most effective is something I've always appreciated in the series. Incidentally, does Panic still negate evasion in this one or did they nerf that?
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Rangpur posted:Incidentally, does Panic still negate evasion in this one or did they nerf that? I'm fairly certain it does, but I haven't checked entirely. Inflicting panic on bosses is an exercise in absurd frustration now that Creeping Curse is gone.
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Rangpur posted:'Leg' in most EO games also stands for 'lower body,' so if the enemy model has a giant tail, leg binds are usually the way to nullify it. Not sure how applicable that is in EOV but the ability to make educated guesses about which binds will be most effective is something I've always appreciated in the series. It also prevents charging or ramming type attacks, so it's generally effective against rhinos and boars and whatnot.
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I'm getting the sense from your description that, while ailments work against enemies, they're still closer to Final Fantasy utility levels (almost invariably less useful than simply hitting them) than MegaTen levels (a vital part of random encounters, much less bosses). Is that fair? Seems like binds are where it's at in the debuff department.
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FredMSloniker posted:I'm getting the sense from your description that, while ailments work against enemies, they're still closer to Final Fantasy utility levels (almost invariably less useful than simply hitting them) than MegaTen levels (a vital part of random encounters, much less bosses). Is that fair? Seems like binds are where it's at in the debuff department. Dunno about EO5, but it is definitely not true in the EO games starting from 4. Ailments and binds can buy you several free turns on a boss if you apply the right ones. If you're playing EO1, yeah binds are the way to go because ailments will rarely land on bosses. Though stuns were utterly broken in that game because nothing in the game was resistant to it at all.
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FredMSloniker posted:I'm getting the sense from your description that, while ailments work against enemies, they're still closer to Final Fantasy utility levels (almost invariably less useful than simply hitting them) than MegaTen levels (a vital part of random encounters, much less bosses). Is that fair? Seems like binds are where it's at in the debuff department. Poison is a pretty good source of damage, and pretty much anything other than curse will usually cripple an enemy in some way. You should use ailments in random battles constantly. Most of them are attached to damage moves anyway. Blind is also a good combo with a dodge-Fencer because it negates the inherent risk of being a dodge tank, and instant death is a cheap and reliable way of dealing with certain random encounters (and one FOE is actually weak against death). Also I would literally not have been able to beat the final boss without Sleep. Clarste fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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# ? Jan 18, 2021 01:57 |
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Update 1: Nameless The telop says "Earthrun royalty." Aeolis certification exam! You need the approval of the Arcadian Council to explore the Yggdrasil Labyrinth. Enter the first floor of the Labyrinth, map it, and bring back samples of Yggdrasil's roots and soil! This box shows where the items we need are... Well, I mean, kinda. That box encompasses pretty much all of 1F. Talking to Remus just has him say this: Leaving prompts this dialogue: ...Apparently by "you should visit," Remus meant "you are not going anywhere until you go shopping." The telop says "Brownie boy." Most EO games give you 500 en to start. EO5, however, only gives you 300. Most stuff is cheaper to compensate, but crucially... Medicas cost the same as always: 20 en. If you stock up on even 5 of them (the usual amount), you're really not gonna be left with much to outfit your party, and trust me, armor is very important in EO5. Characters will die very, very quickly if you try to go in with just the stuff you start with. Anyway, yes, actually buying equipment. Same deal as in previous EO games--you select a character and a slot, buy something, and can immediately equip it. Hit the shoulder buttons to cycle through characters, and X to buy stuff for characters not in the active party. Veterans of EO, however, might notice two new numbers just above equipment--magic attack (MAT, though I call it MATK), and magic defense (MDF, though I call it MDEF). This also means upgrading weapons for spellcasters is important! In previous EO games, it was generally a really good idea to just stick to whatever weapon gave the highest TEC bonus for a spellcaster, since ATK didn't affect TEC-based attacks at all. Less importantly, EO5 also makes it so that armor affects magic damage again--this was the case in EO1-4, but was changed for some reason in the Untolds, where the only stat that affected magic defense was TEC. All of the ATK and DEF stats are pretty easy to calculate, incidentally--ATK is the sum of your STR and weapon ATK, MATK is the sum of your INT and weapon MATK, DEF is the sum of your VIT and total armor DEF, and MDEF is the sum of your WIS and total armor MDEF. I buy 3 Medicas in case Dosen runs out of TP somehow, and outfit everyone as such. Note that for Dragoons, to actually use their shield skills, you need, well, a shield. Dosen also gets some Leaf Sandals because boots increase action speed. Leaving triggers this. The telop says "Lunarian woman." Talking to Melina just has her say this: The telop says "Smiling woman." The inn's mostly the same as in previous EO games, with some additions. a) It's where you store items again, now that there's no guild house like the Untolds. b) Guild Card management has also been moved to the Inn, although it's locked right now. c) The clinic for reviving/de-petrifying party members is gone. Petrification is no longer persistent (I'll talk more about that in the disables mechanics post), and death is automatically cured by sleeping at the inn. Talking to Genetta right now results in this: The Forest Entrance is a bit different from previous games. Entering it just brings us straight into the stratum selection, for one. And selecting a stratum lets us select a floor to start on! EO5 removes the Floor Jump feature of the Untolds, and lets you start from whatever floors you've completed and reported to the Council. "What's that about reporting to the Council?," you may ask. Don't worry, all in due time. VIDEO: Intro: 1st Stratum - Guardian Forest The floor subtitle reads: "The first step on a legend-chasing adventure" Ah, right, skill point allocation. For once, I didn't get ahead of the game. Those of you coming from the Untolds might notice that the skill trees in EO5 are considerably pared down from those games--they fit on a single screen, much like EO4. It also, by extension, has far less skills than those trees. This is because these are only the Basic skills, however--we'll unlock Master skills once we get specializations. You might also notice the arrow pointing left and the tab saying "Race." Each race has a selection of passives and Union skills they can invest in. They all only cost one skill point to invest in, so it's generally worth just dropping a point in something useful as early as possible. For Sasha, her remaining 2 skill points go into Line Guard, which can target either row, and reduces cut, stab, and bash damage to that row for one turn--32% reduction at level 2, specifically. It's a core skill for Dragoons throughout the entire game. Also, note that unlike the EO3 version, the damage reduction is the same for both rows--it's not reduced if the Dragoon isn't in that row. Cecil's remaining 2 points go into Arm Break, which deals melee STR-based bash damage to one enemy, and attempts to bind their arms. The bind chance isn't that great at lower levels (it's only 30% from levels 1-4), but it still deals slightly more damage than a normal attack for only 3 TP--159% at level 2. His other point goes into Scythe of Numb Stasis, which deals melee STR-based cut damage to one row. If Raven were to be in the Miasma Weapon state, it'd also attempt to paralyze the targets. At level 1, it deals 150% damage and has a 40% base paralysis chance. Gram's two points go into Hawk Whistle, which summons a hawk. The higher the level of Hawk Whistle, the higher the hawk's stat multiplier is--at level 2, it's 1.03x. We'll find that key much, MUCH later in the game. This is a new type of gathering spot--a fishing spot. If anyone in our party knew Fishing (it's a race skill that Earthrun, Therians, and Brownies can learn), we'd be able to get some fish food items from it. Ghost Acorn HP: 104 STR: 20 INT: 13 VIT: 18 WIS: 13 AGI: 10 LUC: 9 Drops:
Disable Resistances: Ghost Acorns are about as basic as it gets. Literally all they do is either attack or defend. Note how their HP is considerably higher than most early random EO encounters though. That's sort of a theme with EO5's early game--everything has considerably higher HP than in previous games, while your party doesn't really hit as hard. ("Sasha used Line Guard!") ("Gram used Hawk Whistle!") ("Cecil used Arm Break!") Magic Heal restores 3% + 6 of every party member's maximum TP. It's incredibly useful for prolonging Labyrinth explorations early on. Ghost Acorns can take a while to die when they're defending. ("Hawk attacks!") If you don't issue a specific command for the hawk, it'll just attack a random enemy. Its normal attacks have a chance to inflict head bind, which can be nice. One turn of more of the same later: (Received: 1 Hard Acorn, 3 Cracked Nuts.) ("Obtained Not that bad of a find. Strength Rings increase one party member's STR by 8 and HP by 10. I put it on Gram. Another chicken spot. ("Found 1 1F, D5 Mine Point
Gathering points make a return yet again, and while the way they work personally isn't changed much from the Untolds, gathering skills are. Each race has a gathering skill--Lunarians get Chop, Therians get Mine, and Brownies get Take. Earthrun get Woodland Gathering Skills, which acts as all 3 at once. Exactly what type of bonus each skill gives, I don't know, but to my knowledge, each skill initially rolls for an activation chance. If that succeeds, the character then rolls for each of the drops from the gathering point once, with some kind of bonus being added to each chance. Note that each character (and the initial gathering) can only find one of a given material. The initial gathering can only find one material at all, too. Lastly, gathering ambushes are still a thing. This first Mine point can't result in an ambush (it'd be pretty dickish if it did), though. Balloon Flying Squirrel HP: 106 STR: 22 INT: 16 VIT: 15 WIS: 14 AGI: 17 LUC: 11 Skills:
Disable Resistances: I hate squirrels. I almost always have at least one attempt at the first mission end in a reset because these assholes one-shot someone from full or near-full HP with Balloon Drop, almost always in the back row. Having the squirrel start in the back row is a serious blessing, since it means that it can't hit the back row, and trying to hit the front row will result in a damage penalty. The squirrel's weakness to stab also means that Gram and the hawk hit it pretty hard. (Received: 1 Fluffy Fur, 1 Hard Acorn, 1 Cracked Nut.) Stepping on this tile triggers this event automatically. Our options are:
Explorer's first trouble Successfully used your wits to cross a narrow path with muddy footing! Ah, here's a fairly major change. Remember the in-Labyrinth events from past EO games? They're referred to as Adventure Episodes now, and they give EXP rewards at the end. Effectively, what this means is there's basically no reason to ever back out of an event. Even if something bad happens, you'll still get extra EXP at the end of it, so why not? (Trying to back out of the mud event would just mean we'd take a step back and the game would tell us we can't go any further without crossing.) Chicken. Our choices are:
Yes, Battle 1 does actually start playing here. Our choices are:
Our choices are:
("Obtained "The Yamato Coin and the snapping turtle You found an old coin in the mud, and while it was a close battle with the turtle, you successfully obtained it!" Our choices are:
("Obtained "Haste makes waste You wisely determine the best way to cross, and successfully reach the other side sinking into the mud." Also: our first level ups! Cecil puts his point into Fishing, so we can use the fishing spots. Sasha puts another point into Line Guard, which now reduces physical damage by 34%. Raven puts another point into Scythe of Numb Stasis, which now deals 156% damage. Gram puts a point into Animal Therapy, which provides a small amount of free, passive healing, while either a dog or hawk is summoned. The heal amount is a little bit of a mystery, but I'm fairly certain it's a base amount plus an unknown amount of variance. The base heal is 1 HP at level 1, incidentally, and scales up to 35 at level 10. Rea fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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