Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Jimmy Hats posted:

Ugggggh i followed KB last night he copped someone but i don't know who.

##vote cpig

so

your name is james hats

you have a watch and track available

you choose to target the player who got a treat, great!

imagine that you, james hats, are town. do you choose the ability that could observe a kill on a high priority target? or, do you choose to see who they visit? the best case scenario there is a verified target.

suboptimal play is a tough case to make, but i have a lot of difficulty making sense of that from a town perspective.

##vote james hats

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Somberbrero posted:

so

your name is james hats

you have a watch and track available

you choose to target the player who got a treat, great!

imagine that you, james hats, are town. do you choose the ability that could observe a kill on a high priority target? or, do you choose to see who they visit? the best case scenario there is a verified target.

suboptimal play is a tough case to make, but i have a lot of difficulty making sense of that from a town perspective.

##vote james hats

I get why you might want to go after another target you found scummy, but what are your opinions on these claims Infinitum and I are making? It seems to be the larger item at hand, and one of us for sure is scum in this instance.

The only other exception where Infinitum is also town, and I am also town is this.

A targets B.
B is self-watching and targets C.
A sees B target C.
D

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Whoops clicked post prematurely

A targets B.
B is self-watching and targets C.
A sees B target C.
B sees A target B
D a juggernaut killed C.

That is the only way Inf and I are both town.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


Somberbrero posted:

suboptimal play is a tough case to make, but i have a lot of difficulty making sense of that from a town perspective.

##vote james hats

Good catch. Unless inf is just straight up lying, there is still a problem with the claimed actions though. His bodyguard action succeeded, with AA being the only visitor.

I'm so hesitant and asking loads of questions, AA, because I believe your argument over inf's. I think it's unlikely that there are 3 trackers due to exactly what somber says - the weird roles in this game make that unlikely. Your scenario is, however, much more likely than inf's, unless it was all just a giant coincidence (which is possible).

How are you feeling about inf's claim somber?

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


this is a stickup posted:

Good catch. Unless inf is just straight up lying, there is still a problem with the claimed actions though. His bodyguard action succeeded, with AA being the only visitor.

I'm so hesitant and asking loads of questions, AA, because I believe your argument over inf's. I think it's unlikely that there are 3 trackers due to exactly what somber says - the weird roles in this game make that unlikely. Your scenario is, however, much more likely than inf's, unless it was all just a giant coincidence (which is possible).

How are you feeling about inf's claim somber?

I'm good at talking and complete all my thoughts the first time

the problem being that someone would have had to interfere with inf's action for a success w/ dead kb

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


or the scum have a strongman kill and inf got docced. or there's something else at play we're not aware of.

based on a purely mechanical pov i'm nervous about making assumptions with partial information. again, gonna reference cloaks and the design intent of this game.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Yes Jimmy is still scum, I agree with that

derp
Jan 21, 2010

when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again



Lipstick Apathy

Aa moritz cpig most obvious scumteam in the history of mafia

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


Somberbrero posted:

or the scum have a strongman kill and inf got docced. or there's something else at play we're not aware of.

based on a purely mechanical pov i'm nervous about making assumptions with partial information. again, gonna reference cloaks and the design intent of this game.

you're absolutely right. for some reason my mind wasn't registering that a strongman would bypass the bodyguard, I kept thinking inf would have died either way.

I suppose that makes it more likely that jimmy is scum.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


derp posted:

Aa moritz cpig most obvious scumteam in the history of mafia

I do think moritz is likely scum, yeah. Kind of a rough scum draft, isn't it? No offense meant, they're just all newer players.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


everyone always think im scum

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Tired Moritz posted:

##vote AA


Does the fact that I said that we should be careful with our treats really make you think I'm scum?

Tired Moritz posted:

##unvote

I want to see what Sombre and Retro got to say.


these posts are like an hour apart and then you back up aa again. can you expand on your thought process a bit more, moritz?

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

actually I think I may just be coming around on TM my strongest reads are inf and TM I think.

derp is town, and also wrong about me.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Somberbrero posted:

these posts are like an hour apart and then you back up aa again. can you expand on your thought process a bit more, moritz?

this is actually a super good point and a great reason to ##vote TM

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


Somberbrero posted:

these posts are like an hour apart and then you back up aa again. can you expand on your thought process a bit more, moritz?

I voted AA because Jimson said they're scum. Then Infi and AA argued for a bit and I thought it might lead to a turbo so I unvoted. After reading AA's comments, I think Infi's scenario is pretty unlikely.

That's it.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


how does their arguing change how you viewed jimson's parting breath?

it seems kind of binary, right? like either you believe it or you don't.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


ah i missed that you said you were just avoiding a turbo.

hm.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


pig, do you think it's weird james hats chose to track kb rather than watch him?

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Somberbrero posted:

pig, do you think it's weird james hats chose to track kb rather than watch him?

yes it is weird, but Jhats is a lot like me as in he seems to just do whatever without thinking much about it.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


CapitalistPig posted:

yes it is weird, but Jhats is a lot like me as in he seems to just do whatever without thinking much about it.

I don't really buy that explanation. A watch is way more exciting than a track as town. KB was obviously a high priority target and tracking him would give jim marginal information at best.

or wait, maybe i'm misremembering. James, you said you saw him Cop, right? so you saw the action but not the target.

man that makes even less sense.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Somberbrero posted:

I don't really buy that explanation. A watch is way more exciting than a track as town. KB was obviously a high priority target and tracking him would give jim marginal information at best.

here is you assuming the way you feel about something is the same way another person would.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




I don't think that Jimson was telling the truth about AA scum claiming, but that also absolutely does not make AA town

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


Somberbrero posted:

how does their arguing change how you viewed jimson's parting breath?

it seems kind of binary, right? like either you believe it or you don't.

because AA raise some good points

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Seriously, even if I wasn't a tracker, there's no way to prove I'm a redirector. I tracked inf, so yea he can see himself or another scum is also a tracker who watched me and told him. I mean think about it... Day just starts, inf claims I visit him and tries to tie it to KBs death... And contrives the argument that I'm a redirector and I some how inferred he was a body guard and I should redirect him, because he for sure was targeting KB to "protect" him?

I love coincidence but that's a big flaccid dicked lie.

What's more believable?

I tracked inf to KBs kill and someone informed him he was watched

OR...

Master tacticians CPig and AA used their superior reading and skill to identify the bodyguard and his intended target and redirect him to secure a kill.


gently caress that. Don't be dumb.

To be honest, I kinda forgot Jimson even said AA was maf by the time I unvoted.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Somberbrero posted:

I don't really buy that explanation. A watch is way more exciting than a track as town. KB was obviously a high priority target and tracking him would give jim marginal information at best.

or wait, maybe i'm misremembering. James, you said you saw him Cop, right? so you saw the action but not the target.

man that makes even less sense.

quote:

The Watcher is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, targeted that player the same Night (but not what actions were performed on that player).
The Tracker learns who a player targeted, but not what action that player performed.

Jimmy Hats posted:

Anyways jimson was pure tracker and i am a tracking/watching JOAT so i cannot believe for one goddamn second that AA is also a town tracker in a 13 person game.

Jimmy Hats posted:

Ugggggh i followed KB last night he copped someone but i don't know who.

##vote cpig

Jimmy claimed to be a Tracker/Watcher JOAT. Neither tracker or watcher can do what he said his results were. What jimmyhats is describing is a follower, who targets a player and discovers what ability they used but not who they used it on.

So Jimmy either hosed up his claim, omitted extra aspects of his role then revealed them unintentionally, or is a liar.

Jimmy and Inf have both hosed up their claims. Both of them had lovely votes against Pig without any real explanation. Both of them are scummy, and that let's avoid a turbo seems premeditated in light of him loving up his night result on KB.

I think he saw me visit Infinitum.

I would say that Jimmyhat, Infinitum and another constitute the scum team.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I've caught two players in lies, at least one of them is guaranteed scum.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


CapitalistPig posted:

here is you assuming the way you feel about something is the same way another person would.

it's not the simple though. there's not an easy way for me to rationalize a bad play like that. maybe assuming any kind of rationale is a mistake on my part, but i have to work from the perspective that each player is trying to advance their win condition.

let's look at it another way.

you're scum. james hats isn't on your scum team.you know that james hats can watch at night. would you try to kill kb with a claimed watcher on the board?

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Somberbrero posted:

it's not the simple though. there's not an easy way for me to rationalize a bad play like that. maybe assuming any kind of rationale is a mistake on my part, but i have to work from the perspective that each player is trying to advance their win condition.

let's look at it another way.

you're scum. james hats isn't on your scum team.you know that james hats can watch at night. would you try to kill kb with a claimed watcher on the board?

well no of course not tht would be silly, unless they have something to mitigate that, but we are falling heavily into wifom territory.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


CapitalistPig posted:

well no of course not tht would be silly, unless they have something to mitigate that, but we are falling heavily into wifom territory.

but these are all established points! scum knew there was a watcher and still chose to kill the most obvious nk target, and James just happened to take a completely useless action instead of catching them?

besides as AA has pointed out, there are definitely some inconsistencies with him claimed role.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Somberbrero posted:

but these are all established points! scum knew there was a watcher and still chose to kill the most obvious nk target, and James just happened to take a completely useless action instead of catching them?

besides as AA has pointed out, there are definitely some inconsistencies with him claimed role.

The wifom part is that we have no idea the kind of fuckery that exists within this game. Like asiina specifically made this game to make a game that could not be solved by night actions.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

CapitalistPig posted:

The wifom part is that we have no idea the kind of fuckery that exists within this game. Like asiina specifically made this game to make a game that could not be solved by night actions.

I'm glad you can speak to the mods judgment and decision making in the creation of this game.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'm glad you can speak to the mods judgment and decision making in the creation of this game.

It literally says that in the op you twat

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


CapitalistPig posted:

The wifom part is that we have no idea the kind of fuckery that exists within this game. Like asiina specifically made this game to make a game that could not be solved by night actions.

yes i agree that the game can't be strictly solved by night actions but i don't see how that follows my point? like there's a very strange inconsistency in terms of james' claimed role, the night kill, and his action.

i'm not trying to solve the game but there's definitely an issue with the information we have so far.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Somberbrero posted:

yes i agree that the game can't be strictly solved by night actions but i don't see how that follows my point? like there's a very strange inconsistency in terms of james' claimed role, the night kill, and his action.

i'm not trying to solve the game but there's definitely an issue with the information we have so far.

wait, I'm misunderstanding sorry for being dense.

Yes jhats being a watcher should have optimally watched KB and it is suspicious that he did not.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


CapitalistPig posted:

wait, I'm misunderstanding sorry for being dense.

Yes jhats being a watcher should have optimally watched KB and it is suspicious that he did not.

not only that, but if there was a town watcher it would be supremely ballsy to target kb.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Jimmy Hats posted:

Anyways i will follow up and say that my joats are watcher, follower, tracker, voyeur.

Hey so jimmy claimed he could follow yesterday too.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


okay sure, he can do that

but why would he?

The Duchess Smackarse
May 8, 2012

by Lowtax


Because i thought kb was a scumbo and wanted to prove it

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Somberbrero posted:

okay sure, he can do that

but why would he?

Yeah, that part I don't get either. Just saw that this was getting missed, is all.

That said, AA's last post saying the claim was hosed up and Hats is caught scum because of it is ... less than accurate.

The Duchess Smackarse
May 8, 2012

by Lowtax


Like that entire garbage case on me is based on somber's inability to actually read the thread since AA and cpig's cocks are in his face messing up his field of view

The Duchess Smackarse
May 8, 2012

by Lowtax


AA badly wants to discredit me because that means he can get away one more day with his completely garbage and false tracker claim

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Jimmy Hats posted:

Like that entire garbage case on me is based on somber's inability to actually read the thread since AA and cpig's cocks are in his face messing up his field of view

:shrug: I don't think his case is automatically daming, just suspicious.

I'd rather vote inf or TM today.

  • Locked thread