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turboraton
Aug 27, 2011


Yumi got destroyed by my man Misasa.


Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.

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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

Thank U for reading

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tweet my meat posted:

His whole arc was being built up as being this super strong rear end in a top hat and then having most of that facade stripped away when the real badasses show up. I liked the way it was done and saying he was supposed to be on the level of Agito is just missing the point.

The problem is that this describes Purgatory's entire lineup so far. They were all introduced as big badasses, only for their Kengan opponent to take a couple chapters to figure out how to counter their gimmick and then immediately steamroll them. After four in a row, it's starting to feel a little one-note compared to the Kengan Tournament. The fact that Carlos and the Falcon managed to officially win their matches doesn't really make Purgatory feel like any less of a chump lineup right now.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Mudo didn't feel like a chump in my opinion. Julius just broke his limiter and crushed him with PURE POWER.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


Pre kengan annihilation tournament Julius would have lost against Mudo but all he did in against current Julius was job.

e-I think thats a good way of putting it. Purgatory dudes would have been fairer or superior matches to most of the kengan guys right now had they not gone through the personal growth post tournament.

Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 15, 2020

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


I simply do not buy the idea that Metsudo lowered his standards for his Fangs especially given Misasa. It's just bad writing that Yumi was let into the position and turned out to be a chump even by Purgatory standards. if such a thing could be more concretely outlined as the matches never open with a match record to give any context into the relative strength of these guys.

AtomikKrab posted:

Mudo didn't feel like a chump in my opinion. Julius just broke his limiter and crushed him with PURE POWER.
Mudo is the only one exempt for this the same reason Julius was in the Kengan Annihilation tournament. Even with his defeat there's a very short list of people who could contend with his sheer strength of Julius and his muscle guard. Toa has strength and technique that would make him a terror so the his loss doesn't devalue him. Carlos and Yumigahara do not get this consideration. Hayabusa also would suffer like Gaoh's style does as once people got wise to his poison toe and misdirection, I don't think he's remain a very competitive fighter even though his skills are still mid-tier by my reckoning.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Metsudo also recruits on potential. And like I posted earlier, if Yumigahara could unify his various styles and be able to switch seamlessly in battle, he'd be absolute top tier.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos


Brought To You By posted:

I simply do not buy the idea that Metsudo lowered his standards for his Fangs especially given Misasa. It's just bad writing that Yumi was let into the position and turned out to be a chump even by Purgatory standards. if such a thing could be more concretely outlined as the matches never open with a match record to give any context into the relative strength of these guys.


Yumigahama was still almost definitely the strongest bodyguard among the main bodyguard force. He was still really, really loving strong, just not top of the top tier Kengan/Purgatory fighter strong. Metsudo still had his personal guards and the extermination force who were both probably stronger than him, Misasa obviously was, but measuring it by power level is missing the point of why he was fang entirely.

Metsudo didn't let him become fang because he was the most powerful fighter available to him like he did with Misasa and Agito, he liked Yumigahama because he was rebellious and treacherous. Letting people who openly intend to betray him rise to power for his personal entertainment is one of his main character traits. It was well established in Ashura and directly stated to be the case with Yumigahama in the Misasa fight.

I started off not liking this tournament like everyone else, but I've been enjoying ever since Julius vs Toa and it hasn't let up yet. Yumigahama vs Misasa was one sided, but it was one of the most brutal and well choreographed fights of the entire series. This next fight is an openly Worm affiliated fighter vs one of the main characters who is in the middle of a major character arc, so I don't expect I'll be disappointed by this one either.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






tweet my meat posted:

Yumigahama was never meant to be some badass on the level of Agito. He became fang after Metsudo retired and competition wasn't as fierce. He wasn't as strong as Agito and he wasn't even the strongest fighter in Metsudo's forces at that time, Metsudo just wanted to gently caress with him.

He gets the better of Koga, and who hasn't at this point. He beats Jose, who is just a high tier fighter rather than a top tier fighter and he still loses his arm in the process. He's openly disrespected by the top fighters of Purgatory. It's revealed that he never actually got one over on Metsudo and that Metsudo knew about the betrayal from the moment he made contact with purgatory, but let him do it anyway because he's Metsudo. All of this culminated with his total defeat at the hands of someone who was actually fit to be the fang of Metsudo. He's still super loving strong, he's just not at the pinnacle like some of the other fighters.


His whole arc was being built up as being this super strong rear end in a top hat and then having most of that facade stripped away when the real badasses show up. I liked the way it was done and saying he was supposed to be on the level of Agito is just missing the point.

:hmmyes:

So what you're saying is that he was Purgatory's Koga?

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


tweet my meat posted:

Yumigahama was still almost definitely the strongest bodyguard among the main bodyguard force. He was still really, really loving strong, just not top of the top tier Kengan/Purgatory fighter strong. Metsudo still had his personal guards and the extermination force who were both probably stronger than him, Misasa obviously was, but measuring it by power level is missing the point of why he was fang entirely.

Metsudo didn't let him become fang because he was the most powerful fighter available to him like he did with Misasa and Agito, he liked Yumigahama because he was rebellious and treacherous. Letting people who openly intend to betray him rise to power for his personal entertainment is one of his main character traits. It was well established in Ashura and directly stated to be the case with Yumigahama in the Misasa fight.

I started off not liking this tournament like everyone else, but I've been enjoying ever since Julius vs Toa and it hasn't let up yet. Yumigahama vs Misasa was one sided, but it was one of the most brutal and well choreographed fights of the entire series. This next fight is an openly Worm affiliated fighter vs one of the main characters who is in the middle of a major character arc, so I don't expect I'll be disappointed by this one either.

I'd swallow all this if I wasn't just convinced that Sandrovich didn't know what to do with this character and had him pretty much shunted off the plot because he's not important. This whole tournament feels more and more phoned in given the quality of the story before it started and how the KAT played out.

When Himura first introduces the idea of a "traitor fang" to Agito, he expressly says that Yumigahara was as strong as Agito was. There's no way around what that comparison should imply in terms of fighting capability and it's just not what we see in the story based on this fight. Even NiToku was suppsed to be around even with pre-tourney Agito so the injuries Jose did to Yumi aren't really a reason to start thinking he's this much a chump. I'm not even saying that Yumigahara should be the best purgatory fighter, but let's keep in mind there are only around 30 A-class fighters in Purgatory, supposedly comparable to the top-class kengan fighters. But have Carlos, Yumi, or even Hayabusa really make you think this was a high standard? Going by this fight I'd actually believe that Metsudo honestly promoted Yumi as a joke and it stopped being funny when one of their own got killed.

What we got in this fight is in my opinion the wrong way to do a curb stomp. Wakatsuki vs The Immeasurable Murobuchi was a good one. Gozo was clearly not ready for someone like Waka even after training but still managed to look decent while losing. Gaoh vs Kokuro was a recent one, it's clear Kokuro wasn't capable of fighting Gaoh but still managed to look good up until his face got caved in but even then it's not bad. What is the point of Yumigahara though? What is the point of just cobbling together these weapon techniques if there's no logic to their usage? He whines like a child, gets no respect from his peers, doesn't even look like a strong fighter in the end. Initially setup as someone comparable to Agito but has 5 losses to his name in an organization that doesn't have a lot of respect in my eyes if their best looking fighter to date is just the Julius of their group.

I really hate that I'm mostly negative about this series now because I liked the direction Omega was going in up until chapter 50. It's just been a little "off" ever since and the fights aren't as good.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007





ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

Of that 9-5, at least 2 are from beating Jose, I think.

We know 1 is definitely Jose, and the conversation between them implies that they've fought before.

no need to abuse me like this

Jose
Jul 24, 2007





the more interesting bit of misasa fighting is who fights "king". its gonna be either agito or ohma but the fact that we don't know is cool imo

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


i wonder if purgatory does in fact suck rear end.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


perhaps they are the ufc to Kengan's PRIDE.

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013


My main issue with this tournament is that I still consider it a warm-up before the main event, kinda like more elaborate version of the street fights before Kengan tournament that serves mainly to introduce us to (and hype us for) new fighters, new factions and new enemies. But it kinda does pretty lovely job about it so far? Every Purgatory fighter ended up having a really unflattering fight, no matter if they won or lost in the end, and even the doppelganger Worm guy ended up seeming more like pussy than anything.
We just finished the first quarter of the tournament, so it's possible that the real, impressive fighters who will make me go "wow" are still coming up, but that's something I have been telling myself at the beginning of every new match and always ended up disappointed so far.

(And there is still the possibility that this is the main event and everything will be resolved by the end of it, in which case.....lol)

A Bystander
Oct 10, 2012


I highly doubt this business with Purgatory is gonna be it

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

A Bystander posted:

I highly doubt this business with Purgatory is gonna be it

Considering Koga is our protagonist figure and he's not even in this one, yeah, I'd agree.

ugusername
Jul 5, 2013


Soooo even Purgatory hypes up Kazzy and he didn't really chose any fighter yet. He kinda picked Misasa but only after he already strongly went forward. Am i the only one annoyed by that? Like Kazzy being the captain was the basis for really interesting fights and everyone just going past him feels a bit sad.

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004


Kazzy is actually an excellent commander. He lets his fighters choose who to face and when to fight. I'm sure we'll see him get all Kazzy-is-genius soon.

We haven;'t seen any commentary from Kazzy. But if you look at the fights, Kengan has 3 wins if you don't count Gaolang's technical loss. The fight with Rihito vs OwlMan was unpredictable due to poison hands (seriously wtf?), Rihito was winning.

The Kengan association has dominated 3/4 fights and nearly won on the last one.

Kazzy is the man.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


ugusername posted:

Soooo even Purgatory hypes up Kazzy and he didn't really chose any fighter yet. He kinda picked Misasa but only after he already strongly went forward. Am i the only one annoyed by that? Like Kazzy being the captain was the basis for really interesting fights and everyone just going past him feels a bit sad.

Kazzy has some actual skills it's just that he lacks a strong personality and he gets overwhelmed quickly by the situation however he has top-tier luck, so he keeps failing upwards.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

badger badger badger


Illegal Hen

I mean Kazzy being hyped up as this amazing, intimidating figure despite not doing much has been a running gag for a while now

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


Angry Lobster posted:

Kazzy has some actual skills it's just that he lacks a strong personality and he gets overwhelmed quickly by the situation however he has top-tier luck, so he keeps failing upwards.

The first time Gaoh threatens Koga, Kazzy intervenes mostly due to his good timing. But he does this again when Gaoh was attempting to finish off Kokuro as an intentional action because he knows something is wrong with the boy. I'd thought Omega showed that Kazzy had grown over the years. Sure his interactions with say Toyoda still have him largely being treated as if he's some Top Tier CEO executive, but we saw with how he handled the Ghost incident that he can grab the reigns. And Kazzy's staredown with Hayami absolutely showed he can keep his poo poo together under pressure plus he's been managing the fighters barn for years which isn't attributed to luck but actual skill in networking and reading the room.

I'd actually like to see Kazzy select at least 1 fighter to head out in an actual match but the groundwork isn't there. The Kengan side knows nothing of the Purgatory reps despite the Purgatory fighters having information on the Kengan Side. On top of that it's not like Kazzy has been given the opportunity to leverage his good eyes to scope out an opponent's capability like he did with Koga, noting that koga had a karate base just from his physique. Although knowing about Mongolian Sumo probably counts towards that kind of thing.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


CharlestonJew posted:

I mean Kazzy being hyped up as this amazing, intimidating figure despite not doing much has been a running gag for a while now

they've pretty much dropped his fighter intuition bit. now he's mostly a good judge of character and competent mid-level manager. it might have made sense for him to be the one to pick fighters for each of these matches, but the fighters have chosen their own opponents each time. kazzy's back to spectator status.

daromeon made the tournament bracket in ka with random lots rather than a specific plan, and it made things way more interesting overall. frankly, none of the matchups in the current competition are particularly interesting. i mean, a boxer vs. another, shittier boxer? c'mon.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015




gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

they've pretty much dropped his fighter intuition bit. now he's mostly a good judge of character and competent mid-level manager. it might have made sense for him to be the one to pick fighters for each of these matches, but the fighters have chosen their own opponents each time. kazzy's back to spectator status.

daromeon made the tournament bracket in ka with random lots rather than a specific plan, and it made things way more interesting overall. frankly, none of the matchups in the current competition are particularly interesting. i mean, a boxer vs. another, shittier boxer? c'mon.

Hey be fair, that other boxer had a great skill, Skimming

K Prime posted:

So this is a thing, actually. When a Chinese/Japanese/Korean person says "Asian" in that sort of context they mean central Asian, in the same way that when an American says "Asian" they usually mean East Asian.

Thanks for this! I'm South East Asian but we don't seem to have that sort of distinction here, great to learn it :)

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


what if gaolang had fought literally any other purgatory fighter who has already gone? gaolang vs. the gimmicky naruto enthusiast, vs. the kiwi man mountain, vs. the sweatsuit heel. heck, julius vs. #1 naruto fan could have been a really interesting fight since the latter specialized in tricks that would actually work on julius. skin-tearing, poison, even that ridiculous bounce kick.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

Thank U for reading

If you hated it...
FUCK U and never come back


AtomikKrab posted:

Mudo didn't feel like a chump in my opinion. Julius just broke his limiter and crushed him with PURE POWER.

Compare it to Julius vs Wakatsuki. That fight felt like a clash of the titans where both of them were giving all they had to beat the poo poo out of each other, a back-and-forth slugfest where both of them were adjusting to each other's tactics to try to outfight each other. It really felt like a battle between equals, where even the winner emerged significantly beat-up.

Mudo, on the other hand, just used his counter move over and over, inflicting minor damage, until Julius revealed his new ability and utterly crushed him in two hits. It made Julius look impressive, but I wouldn't say it was an impressive fight.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

I will agree that I don't really like the "mirror match" fights conceptually, mostly because it's more fun to see different styles of fighters fight each other than it is to see a boxer fight a boxer and a muscle man fight a muscle man.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 29 days!


I feel like this tournament won't mean much in the grand scheme of things, so these fights are more about establishing some new faces and letting old faces show their new skills before we get into the Worm stuff.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015




Dias posted:

I feel like this tournament won't mean much in the grand scheme of things, so these fights are more about establishing some new faces and letting old faces show their new skills before we get into the Worm stuff.

I think so too! But it feels like each fight gets the same amount of chapters as Ashura's fights, which is making it drag. I'd be okay if they sped up these in like two chapters each. Introduce fighter + gimmick in one chapter, then second chapter is fight that's a bit more condensed. Instead we're getting 4+ chapters per fight in what feels like the B-plot of the story.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


Dias posted:

I feel like this tournament won't mean much in the grand scheme of things, so these fights are more about establishing some new faces and letting old faces show their new skills before we get into the Worm stuff.

even if that's true there's no reason why better fights couldn't serve the exact same purpose. they don't have to be so lackluster.

Char
Jan 5, 2013


I wonder who Purgatory's Kuroki is. They all look too much like assholes, except Arashiyama, I guess.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010


Char posted:

I wonder who Purgatory's Kuroki is. They all look too much like assholes, except Arashiyama, I guess.

Do you mean Kuroki as in gruff tsundere old master or Kuroki as in the strongest dude around.

Char
Jan 5, 2013


ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

Do you mean Kuroki as in gruff tsundere old master or Kuroki as in the strongest dude around.

As the unassumingly looking strongest dude, they're all edgelording each other except the silent guy in a trench and Arashiyama.

Andrew Lime
Oct 9, 2012


Char posted:

As the unassumingly looking strongest dude, they're all edgelording each other except the silent guy in a trench and Arashiyama.

It's probably the King dude, isn't it?

Char
Jan 5, 2013


Andrew Lime posted:

It's probably the King dude, isn't it?

I hope our expectations will be subverted, as in Ashura. Going by that, I think he's their Agito.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos


I doubt they have a Kuroki. The Kengan people didn't technically have a Kuroki either, Kuroki was an outsider who was invited to the tournament. Everyone in purgatory seems to be more or less a known factor amongst their organization and Lolong pretty clearly stands at the top as the fang equivalent.

There could be another secret Worm infiltrator, but it seems like most of the higher level worm figures tend not to be the ones infiltrating so they probably aren't the most powerful. Maybe the Wu guy since the Wu family is a bit of a wildcard, but that's incredibly doubtful since he'll probably be doing the job for Raian.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


whenever Kazzy isn’t in a panel, everyone should be asking “where’s Kazzy?”

Char
Jan 5, 2013


tweet my meat posted:

I doubt they have a Kuroki. The Kengan people didn't technically have a Kuroki either, Kuroki was an outsider who was invited to the tournament. Everyone in purgatory seems to be more or less a known factor amongst their organization and Lolong pretty clearly stands at the top as the fang equivalent

Right, I kinda forgot about that. I hope Sandrovich is playing with our expectations anyway, even if this feels like a low-stakes fight.

Oh, another thing about Purgatory fighters - Jose defeated Nicolas in an official match.
Considering how he trash talks everytime he speaks, I'm trying to guess the remaining matchups now.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos


Nicolas seems like he's on the weaker side of the top tier, but he definitely has a mean streak as was shown in his introduction where he was lamenting that he chose purgatory where you can't kill your opponent unlike the kengan association. I'm predicting it's gonna be a thing where he doesn't really take things too seriously since the personal stakes are pretty low for him.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015




What if the King dude is not their equivalent to Agito, but their equivalent to Kazzy, good at watching fights and assessing how things are going, and not necessarily too strong themselves.

Btw, thinking back about Yumi beating Jose and putting him down, I guess Weaponless Weapon Fighting Styles That Still Cut would be especially effective against TANK EVERYTHING PRO WRESTLING

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ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010


Char posted:

Right, I kinda forgot about that. I hope Sandrovich is playing with our expectations anyway, even if this feels like a low-stakes fight.

Oh, another thing about Purgatory fighters - Jose defeated Nicolas in an official match.
Considering how he trash talks everytime he speaks, I'm trying to guess the remaining matchups now.

Wait, wha?

drat I need to reread this series if I forgot info like that.

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