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Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Rastor posted:

Oh no doubt there are test machines in labs, I agree there. But stuff like being unstable under heavy compiling loads is gonna have to be ironed out before the production order is placed.

The cloud providers don't care about five-nines reliability on any given node but they do need the poo poo to actually work, in production conditions (where they don't baby systems at all), under heavy loads.

Oh you sweet summer child

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Oh dear:

Every new news item keeps making me flipflop between AMD and Intel.

--edit:
I love how that dumb spreadsheet linked in the Phoronix article asks for mainboard but not which CPU version. Might as well turn out to be an issue with binning, AMD being a little too optimistic about the higher end models or some poo poo like that.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jun 4, 2017

eames
May 9, 2009



Combat Pretzel posted:

Oh dear:

Every new news item keeps making me flipflop between AMD and Intel.

although if AMD keeps dropping prices I'll buy a cheap (if buggy) 1700/X370 system just to mess around with it until the HEDT picture clears up

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



Malcolm XML posted:

Oh you sweet summer child

Without violating NDAs, I know what I'm talking about

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




Combat Pretzel posted:

Oh dear:

Every new news item keeps making me flipflop between AMD and Intel.

--edit:
I love how that dumb spreadsheet linked in the Phoronix article asks for mainboard but not which CPU version. Might as well turn out to be an issue with binning, AMD being a little too optimistic about the higher end models or some poo poo like that.

What news article?

ufarn
May 30, 2009


havenwaters posted:

If you mean that thing where Rise of the Tomb Raider was running worse on amd cpus compared to intel cpus Crystal Dynamics just patched their game to fix that late last month.

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph...formance-Update

Probably means developers are going to need to keep Ryzen in mind when making PC games in the future but it was totally fixable.
Ah, that's great to hear. Puts the ball in devs' court.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


ufarn posted:

Ah, that's great to hear. Puts the ball in devs' court.

That's a lovely place for a ball to be on this stuff.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Rastor posted:

Without violating NDAs, I know what I'm talking about

: so do I

It is as if different providers and customers have different requirements even inside a cloud....

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Everyone has different computers!

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


I don't know too much about virtualization but how transparently virtualizable are multi core multi GPU setups these days?

Is there a big performance hit?

Put another way, would it be possible to create a multi seat gaming setup with Threadripper and multiple Nividia cards?

eames
May 9, 2009



shrike82 posted:

I don't know too much about virtualization but how transparently virtualizable are multi core multi GPU setups these days?

Is there a big performance hit?

Put another way, would it be possible to create a multi seat gaming setup with Threadripper and multiple Nividia cards?

The performance hit with a hypervisor like KVM is negligible (1-5% in my experience). What you mentioned is possible, although there's currently a bug on the Ryzen platform that degrades performance.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



eames, you spelunk the AMD forums, right? Have they finally acknowledged the problem with nested page tables?

eames
May 9, 2009



Sadly no, they tout AGESA 1.0.0.6 as the fix for GPU passthrough but that only solves IOMMU groups.

It might be a KVM bug (I found a bug report from 2008) but at the moment we have to assume like neither party is looking into it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/ has good amount on info on virtualization and passthrough.

e: this is the latest statement by the KVM devs https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/p...May/021690.html

eames fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jun 5, 2017

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Well, crap. Let's hope that the only thing keeping them from addressing this particular problem is purely a case of EPYC/Threadripper crunch.

eames
May 9, 2009



Strikes me as odd that they'd launch a brand new, heavily multithreaded server platform with such a virtualization bug in place. I guess PCIe passthrough is still pretty niche so they assume customers will leave NPT enabled.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


https://twitter.com/JokerReview/sta...764544532021248

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




Paul MaudDib posted:

This is all about economies of scale. What's the savings from removing a few extra discretes and side-chips in mass-production quantities? Not much. How much does it cost to set up the pick-and-place machine for new boards, and track an entire other second lineup? At least some. How many are they going to sell? Well, either very few, or their entire stock - in which case you're now sold out for months until you can ramp production (by which time it may well be over).

I'm sure you can see why they aren't jumping all over that.

Necro quoting, with an interesting link that needs salt.

https://videocardz.com/70162/amd-and-nvidia-preparing-graphics-cards-for-cryptocurrency-mining

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now



I have literally owned an entire (terrible) laptop smaller than that.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


It's also a photoshop.

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014



PerrineClostermann posted:

It's also a photoshop.

Are you sure?

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






SinineSiil posted:

Are you sure?

The worst (best?) part is you can't be totally sure these days.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


SinineSiil posted:

Are you sure?

What, you think it's actually possible that there's a picture of "Threadripper II" and it's the size of a motherboard?

Also I can tell from the pixels and having seen quite a few shops in my time

spasticColon
Sep 22, 2004

In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

PerrineClostermann posted:

What, you think it's actually possible that there's a picture of "Threadripper II" and it's the size of a motherboard?

MoC = Motherboard on a Chip.

edit: and yes I know it's fake.

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014



PerrineClostermann posted:

What, you think it's actually possible that there's a picture of "Threadripper II" and it's the size of a motherboard?
Anything can be possible.

spasticColon posted:

edit: and yes I know it's fake.
Noo! I was already planning how to save up for it

Sininu fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jun 6, 2017

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares





Does arctic silver come in pints?

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"



edit: I'm gonna take this to the GPU thread

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



It *appears* that Samsung, working with GloFo and IBM, may beat Intel to market with EUV.
IBM is touting 40% perf increase or 75% reduced power consumption from the new GAAFET transistor design vs commercial 10nm FinFET.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...-more-efficient
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/06/ibm-5nm-chip/
http://wccftech.com/ibm-gf-5nm/

This is more bad news for Intel, I think. I can't remember if they had arrived at their next step after FinFET yet. Last I heard, they were going to switch to InGaAs at 7nm and ride FinFET all the way down to 5nm, or something like that.

edit: Now the question remains: Can AMD GPU-side survive long enough to get whatever comes after Navi onto this new 5nm process? XD

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 6, 2017

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



Rumor claims entry-level 16core with SMT is $849: https://www.techpowerup.com/234114/...ly-cost-usd-849

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



...how is that loving _entry level_? Isn't entry level supposed to be some 10-core part with SMT, clocked up to 3.4 with boost to 3.8?

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



SwissArmyDruid posted:

...how is that loving _entry level_? Isn't entry level supposed to be some 10-core part with SMT, clocked up to 3.4 with boost to 3.8?

I think it means the cheapest 16-core, not the cheapest out of any threadripper.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



If there is a criticism that I have continually levelled at AMD, it is that they appear to be hell-bent on leaving as much money on the table as possible.

That a 16-core Threadripper part of quite reasonable clock, might retail for _only_ $849?

This implies that Threadripper, rather than commanding an HEDT price premium, as Intel has normalized over the past decade, will be a step up from R7 merely in the same way that one steps up from R5 -> R7.

And I think that this is undercutting Intel WAY TOO HARD, and that AMD would benefit more in the short-term while not harming their long-term by pricing closer to Intel, but moving down whenever Intel moves.

Either that, or AMD is burning cash to achieve lock-in on people who are increasingly turning against X299/Kaby Lake-X.

Third Rule of Acquisition: Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jun 7, 2017

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


The other thing is that people infer quality from price. If something is 10% cheaper it's a good deal. If it's 30% cheaper it's a lower-tier product.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


That's a pretty good price, especially if they're unlocked for overclocking

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


SwissArmyDruid posted:

If there is a criticism that I have continually levelled at AMD, it is that they appear to be hell-bent on leaving as much money on the table as possible.

That a 16-core Threadripper might of quite reasonable clock, might retail for _only_ $849?

This implies that Threadripper, rather than commanding an HEDT price premium, as Intel has normalized over the past decade, will be a step up from R7, merely in the same way that one steps up from R5 -> R7.

And I think that this is undercutting Intel WAY TOO HARD, and that AMD would benefit more in the short-term while not harming their long-term by pricing closer to Intel, but moving down whenever Intel moves.

Either that, or AMD is burning cash to achieve lock-in on people who are increasingly turning against X299/Kaby Lake-X.

Third Rule of Acquisition: Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to.

AMD needs market share just as much as revenue.

Scarecow
May 20, 2008

3200mhz RAM is literally the Devil. Literally.


Lipstick Apathy

Malcolm XML posted:

AMD needs market share just as much as revenue.

Yeah they really need to build market and mind share at this stage given their current HEDT market % is what.....0? also it could very well be true that making the ripper chips is really cheap and they are getting really high yields so even at half the price they are still turning a nice profit while also making people stop and go "gently caress 16 cores for that much I cant say no"

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Scarecow posted:

Yeah they really need to build market and mind share at this stage given their current HEDT market % is what.....0? also it could very well be true that making the ripper chips is really cheap and they are getting really high yields so even at half the price they are still turning a nice profit while also making people stop and go "gently caress 16 cores for that much I cant say no"

Totally, 32 threads for $850 is enough for me to turn my 5820k into the worlds most overpowered NAS

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


I wonder what motherboards are going to look like to handle that many PCIe lanes out. More focus on EATX and EEB? Just all PCIe x16 at single-slot spacing to give good flexibility?

This would actually be a really interesting design to use as a basis for GPU compute servers (although the last 4 lanes to get an even x16 per card would have been nice). Supermicro has some rack chassis with flexible risers in them I think. All you need then is a mezzanine card implementation of your GPU and you can engineer something that can compete with NVIDIA on rack density (like 1-2U). I think I remember NVIDIA having water-cooled Tesla servers now? That would be really effective for AMD too, you could easily make it a 1U with everything under water.

Is Threadripper capable of multi-socket operation?

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 7, 2017

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015



Paul MaudDib posted:


Is Threadripper capable of multi-socket operation?

I don't think so, IIRC the multi socket Epyc boards have 64 lanes dedicated to inter chip communication out of the 128 available.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






the PCBs are going to be pretty dang thick for that many pins, if you can still find an image of LGA3647 laid horizontally you'd have an idea of how thicc of a pcb that sort of thing needs

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sincx
Jul 13, 2012

What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon? Decent people shouldn't think too much about that.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

the PCBs are going to be pretty dang thick for that many pins, if you can still find an image of LGA3647 laid horizontally you'd have an idea of how thicc of a pcb that sort of thing needs

Only slightly more than half of them are used for Threadripper, right? As opposed to all of them for Epyc.

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