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AARP LARPer
Feb 19, 2005



THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

If I have two nmve's, a top-tier video card, two sata SSDs, and couple USB 3 ports, how many lanes do I need to run this poo poo at full speed?

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Dodoman
Feb 26, 2009



A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret


Lipstick Apathy

All of them

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

WAR DOGS OF SOCHI posted:

If I have two nmve's, a top-tier video card, two sata SSDs, and couple USB 3 ports, how many lanes do I need to run this poo poo at full speed?
4x2 + 16 + 0x2 + 0x2. So 24 lanes.
SATA and USB don't use PCIE lanes. (SATA Express does but I'm not convinced SATA Express actually exists)

AARP LARPer
Feb 19, 2005



THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

Malloc Voidstar posted:

4x2 + 16 + 0x2 + 0x2. So 24 lanes.
SATA and USB don't use PCIE lanes. (SATA Express does but I'm not convinced SATA Express actually exists)

Thank you!

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


SwissArmyDruid posted:

If there is a criticism that I have continually levelled at AMD, it is that they appear to be hell-bent on leaving as much money on the table as possible.

When you're charged for not making chips thanks to the WSA, it kind of skews the pricing curve

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Subjunctive posted:

The other thing is that people infer quality from price. If something is 10% cheaper it's a good deal. If it's 30% cheaper it's a lower-tier product.

If Intel wants to fight on pricing, they can. Intel's gross profit margins are enormous, and AMD could just be trying to win-market share up front and not have to look reactionary by cutting prices when Intel does.

That said, I know very little about pricing theory and even less about hardware pricing. My only experience is with software pricing, and that the best prices for software are free or $50k+ per year.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Intel has gigantic operating costs due the fabs they run and R&D costs to improve them that AMD doesn't have to deal with though.

A price war might just end up hurting Intel more than AMD at this point.

I think AMD is more than happy enough to "leave money on the table" with their current pricing since they're still getting more money, volume, and better ASP's than they've had in years and they probably really need the cash now while building some good will in the market. And this is without even having their new server chip out yet or mobile parts either and those should be much more profitable for them.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


New AdoredTV video on Threadripper vs Skylake-X

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3l9vZD7h_8

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



AdoredTV still chasing those /r/amd clicks I see. Threadripper does look promising but declaring victory before we know SKUs, prices, performance or even a hard release date is a bit premature.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



repiv posted:

AdoredTV still chasing those /r/amd clicks I see. Threadripper does look promising but declaring victory before we know SKUs, prices, performance or even a hard release date is a bit premature.

Well, the rumored specs of 16C/32T at the full 4GHz for $849 certainly make me think they have won. I'm wondering if the large size of the heatspreader combined with the spread out topography of the chip due to how it's manufactured from smaller sub-dies allows the chip to run at the full 4GHz speed sustained with sufficient cooling, probably something water based.

I'll agree that the AdoredTV guy does come off as a pretty big fanboy.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



AVeryLargeRadish posted:

I'm wondering if the large size of the heatspreader combined with the spread out topography of the chip due to how it's manufactured from smaller sub-dies allows the chip to run at the full 4GHz speed sustained with sufficient cooling, probably something water based.

That's a good point. I'm wondering what the spead out design means for cooling though, having to buy a special heatsink with an XXL contact surface would be annoying (and more expensive due to low volume).

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



repiv posted:

That's a good point. I'm wondering what the spead out design means for cooling though, having to buy a special heatsink with an XXL contact surface would be annoying (and more expensive due to low volume).

Well, yeah, it's clearly going to require coolers with very large footprints due to the sheer size of the package, I thought that would be obvious to everyone so I didn't bother to mention it. poo poo, I think it's big enough that coolers on the market right now would have to mount through the package because the screws are not spaced far enough apart for it to fit between them.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Existing coolers might be big enough to cover the actual dies even if they don't cover the entire package, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

It depends on Threadrippers layout under the IHS, which we haven't seen yet.

Comatoast
Aug 1, 2003


MaxxBot posted:

New AdoredTV video on Threadripper vs Skylake-X

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3l9vZD7h_8

What in the world? It's like a 23 minute long MacRumors video.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


repiv posted:

That's a good point. I'm wondering what the spead out design means for cooling though, having to buy a special heatsink with an XXL contact surface would be annoying (and more expensive due to low volume).

yeah it'll definitely make aftermarket coolers more expensive, but you're buying an $800 cpu. suck it up.


also evidently the heat spreader plate is way bigger than the CPU area. compare this pic of the 4-die epyc, even that clusters the dies fairly centrally. so waterblocks and some standard coolers may work ok if they have enough contact area to cover the chips. the trouble will be mounting them.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

Klyith posted:

yeah it'll definitely make aftermarket coolers more expensive, but you're buying an $800 cpu. suck it up.*

* when the comparable intel chip is $2000. Can't stress the value proposition enough here.

Obsurveyor
Jan 10, 2003



I thought Intel's prices were based on what the market would bear rather than actual cost to produce?

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Obsurveyor posted:

I thought Intel's prices were based on what the market would bear rather than actual cost to produce?

As they should be. The question isn't if Intel will react, but rather how much.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Intel needs to be careful to not piss off the customers who've been buying at $2K per. "You could have sold this to me at $750? WTF?" is a tough sales context for future conversations.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Twerk from Home posted:

As they should be. The question isn't if Intel will react, but rather how much.

So far, results aren't promising.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA


PerrineClostermann posted:

So far, results aren't promising.

Given the 6-8 month long lead times just getting a finished on the shelf design produced, if AMD played it close enough to their chest to catch Intel completely off guard, it wouldn't surprise me to see that this IS Intel's reaction, the only one they could really perform within a year.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

Twerk from Home posted:

As they should be. The question isn't if Intel will react, but rather how much.

Reaction: Raid keys, $100 or $300

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


If Intel really was pricing based on what the market will bear, and not as low as they can, and there's a large difference between those values, wouldn't Intel have been able to simply respond with lower pricing? They wouldn't necessarily have to design new chips to compete.

Instead they're releasing x299, and they're not likely to engage in any price drops from their announced prices, right?

That leads me to believe Intel can't price their products to push AMD out of any market share gains.

What am I missing?

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


PerrineClostermann posted:

If Intel really was pricing based on what the market will bear, and not as low as they can, and there's a large difference between those values, wouldn't Intel have been able to simply respond with lower pricing? They wouldn't necessarily have to design new chips to compete.

Instead they're releasing x299, and they're not likely to engage in any price drops from their announced prices, right?

That leads me to believe Intel can't price their products to push AMD out of any market share gains.

What am I missing?

That Intel believes (and is likely correct) that people will pay a premium for Intel stuff even when performance is similar. Intel has tons of room to come down on prices if they chose to.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


At what point do we as outsiders say "Intel can't" instead of "Intel won't"? And does it make much of a difference either way if the end result is high prices on a platform that doesn't make sense?

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


PerrineClostermann posted:

At what point do we as outsiders say "Intel can't" instead of "Intel won't"? And does it make much of a difference either way if the end result is high prices on a platform that doesn't make sense?

Intel's goal is to make profit, not win a release cycle. They are pricing at where they think that will happen. There are likely a lot of customers who would rather pay a higher price for CPUs (which probably make up a small % of their cost) than have to switch supplier contracts and build new relationships.

The fact that Intel is putting up pretty good profits means they are likely not skirting right on the edge of profitability per chip. That's not to say they may not drop prices 12,18 or 24 months from now, but I am guessing they are still pricing their premium offerings at a premium price for a reason.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Fair enough, I suppose. It'll be interesting to see how everything pans out either way.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

Intel is betting on losing less potential profits from sales than they would from lowering margins, which I agree with. If market adoption is very strong they will revisit this and adjust pricing.

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor


Comatoast posted:

What in the world? It's like a 23 minute long MacRumors video.

Guy is a fanboy but some of his thoughts aren't completely trash.

eames
May 9, 2009



I still can't quite believe that they were on the brink of bankruptcy last year, trading for $2 and are now shipping an architecture that looks like it will scale well from mobile APUs all the way to 64 core servers. Right where it matters and apparently just about everywhere in between. Oh and yields are better than expected. Turns out /r/ayymd was on to something, too bad I didn't buy in.

e: did I mention that their GPUs are flying off the shelves (no matter the reason)

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Word around the campfire is Ryzen is still unstable.. even after the latest round of BIOS and memory updates. Not good.

VealCutlet
Dec 20, 2015

I am a marketing god, shave that shit


redeyes posted:

Word around the campfire is Ryzen is still unstable.. even after the latest round of BIOS and memory updates. Not good.

Really? Mines been stable since release and my ram has run at advertised speed since a bios release on the 26th of April...

TheCoach
Mar 11, 2014

SMASH


Seems like it's only a matter of a microcode update and that issue will be done with.

It's a rather usual problem for a brand new arch tho.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






similar problems happened with sandy bridge and didn't really even get fixed until ivy bridge. especially with the P67

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

redeyes posted:

Word around the campfire is Ryzen is still unstable.. even after the latest round of BIOS and memory updates. Not good.

Care to expand on this?

Partycat
Oct 25, 2004

Life at last
Salutations from the other side


Plaster Town Cop

Subjunctive posted:

Intel needs to be careful to not piss off the customers who've been buying at $2K per. "You could have sold this to me at $750? WTF?" is a tough sales context for future conversations.

Depends on the market. For my applications it is Intel or ... No vendor support if I'm building clusters.

$750 is also budget dust until you're building enough to add two zeroes to that for enterprise.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord

B-Mac posted:

Care to expand on this?

Also curious

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003



Some Ryzen Linux Users Are Facing Issues With Heavy Compilation Loads

Desuwa
Jun 2, 2011

I'm telling my mommy. That pubbie doesn't do video games right!

I wouldn't buy a zen CPU until the bug is fixed but it doesn't make me worried either. Seems like they are zeroing in on the bug and will be able to patch it. This isn't ideal but isn't shocking for a new architecture and doesn't mean much long-term, unless it doesn't get patched.

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EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!



Reading the responses so far and it appears to be more related to heavy overclocking, so doesn't sound like a massive hurdle but just a system maturity issue. For something like Epyc, I don't see it as a potentially huge problem as focus on that platform will be system stability and reliability at the cost of performance (especially since this would provide a large enough gap between Summit and Pinnacle after system maturity).

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