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eames
May 9, 2009




welp, learned something new today.

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Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Measly Twerp posted:

So in fact a top mount rad is much worse, yikes. (Unless you intake from the top which would probably be similar to a front intake.)

Hot air rises up, so front mounted is still slightly better.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


well why not posted:

the issue was that the Phaneks Evolv case, while gorgeous, doesn't really have much in the way of ventilation out the top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6UAjQmg9Ho


(start at 3:00)

It's not a Ryzen, problem it's a Phanteks problem and even more so, a Jay problem for not researching how much airflow the case has.

Dremel some nice vents in the top cover, done.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011


well why not posted:

It's not a Ryzen, problem it's a Phanteks problem and even more so, a Jay problem for not researching how much airflow the case has.

what jay is perfect in every way shape and form and how dare you imply that the guy who once drilled through a motherboard ever does anything wrong

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Arzachel posted:

Hot air rises up, so front mounted is still slightly better.

Hot air doesn't rise fast enough to overcome fan pressure. Hot air rising and cold air falling is really moot inside a pc case unless its fanless.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Arivia posted:

what jay is perfect in every way shape and form and how dare you imply that the guy who once drilled through a motherboard ever does anything wrong

In his defense those holes are supposed to be able to be pushed through. Asrock just did a poo poo job.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011


Don Lapre posted:

In his defense those holes are supposed to be able to be pushed through. Asrock just did a poo poo job.

That's fair. I like Jay a lot tbh, he's probably my favourite tech youtube guy, but he's often the first to admit he makes some pretty stupid mistakes.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



Here's a Gigabyte mini-ITX board for the AMD Ryzen socket AM4 platfrom




PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Feed the cube

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





Don Lapre posted:

In his defense those holes are supposed to be able to be pushed through. Asrock just did a poo poo job.

A lot of people have complained about that particular case's ventilation. I'm sure he'll end up with a custom caselabs beast either way, so whatevz

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

On Jays latest video he admits he won't use the pretty custom loops he makes for all his videos on his own workstation. Says it's too hard to work on and modify. LOL

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


redeyes posted:

On Jays latest video he admits he won't use the pretty custom loops he makes for all his videos on his own workstation. Says it's too hard to work on and modify. LOL

Apart from GPU waterblocks and the Skylake-X series I've never really been more than passingly tempted by custom loops. The gains just aren't worth the hassle and risk for 99% of users. AIOs are a decent gain (especially on GPUs) and actually are a plus for convenience in some ways (the block is much smaller than air coolers), so they are justifiable, but CLC is a huge commitment both right upfront and in the future since it's hard to take parts in and out.

GPU waterblocks are the only way you get liquid cooling on the VRMs, which does really help efficiency and card life. All the AIOs (including the ones on the 295x2) have fans on the VRMs (although Fury X does run a copper pipe across the top which I guess is better than nothing). If I won the lottery I would love to build a really crazy compute rig with 7-8 cards on a board and that means single slot, and the only way you can do that is with custom waterblocks. Or, do a SLI setup in something like the Bitfenix Prodigy M, where cooling is just too much of an issue.

And of course Skylake-X sure is a thing, although I'm not sure a custom loop is really any better than delidding in terms of hassle.

Assuming they can fix the problems with leaking in the first-gen kits, EKWB does have a really nice setup where it's basically an AIO out of the box and you can buy "prefilled" GPU blocks that attach using quick disconnects. That seems pretty good to me.

But unfortunately quick-disconnects not leaking is a fairly big ask. When I was growing up I remember the quick-disconnect air hoses in our garage leaking constantly, they are just an inferior connection to a proper semi-permanent fitting

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 27, 2017

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




Rastor posted:

Here's a Gigabyte mini-ITX board for the AMD Ryzen socket AM4 platfrom






Nice. I checked the chips on my ddr4 4000, and it's Samsung, so based on not much at all it might run at decent clocks in a Ryzen box.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jun 27, 2017

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Paul MaudDib posted:

But unfortunately quick-disconnects not leaking is a fairly big ask. When I was growing up I remember the quick-disconnect air hoses in our garage leaking constantly, they are just an inferior connection to a proper semi-permanent fitting

EK uses medical-grade quick-disconnects for those kits, so you'd hope they're pretty drat reliable

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Rastor posted:

Here's a Gigabyte mini-ITX board for the AMD Ryzen socket AM4 platfrom






I had to explain to my co-worker what I just found so amusing.

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



repiv posted:

EK uses medical-grade quick-disconnects for those kits, so you'd hope they're pretty drat reliable

What does medical grade mean.. all I've ever seen gets used only once and then thrown away I guess some places have a need for multi-use connectors too...

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Paul MaudDib posted:

Assuming they can fix the problems with leaking in the first-gen kits, EKWB does have a really nice setup where it's basically an AIO out of the box and you can buy "prefilled" GPU blocks that attach using quick disconnects. That seems pretty good to me.
The AIO from EKWB? I thought that was fixed, since they recalled their kits in 2016 already?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Ihmemies posted:

What does medical grade mean.. all I've ever seen gets used only once and then thrown away I guess some places have a need for multi-use connectors too...

They dont leak i guess. Someone found them on a supply site and they cost about $1 each .

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Combat Pretzel posted:

The AIO from EKWB? I thought that was fixed, since they recalled their kits in 2016 already?

They were coming out with a v2, I'm fairly sure I saw them at Microcenter a few weeks ago, but maybe that was old stock?

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



repiv posted:

EK uses medical-grade quick-disconnects for those kits, so you'd hope they're pretty drat reliable

The EK Predator is discontinued. They are now selling "complete watercooling kits in a box" now with proper fittings and soft tubing runs you cut yourself.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 27, 2017

Otakufag
Aug 23, 2004


If you own a old second gen i5 with a 1070 and 144hz gsync monitor, is it wiser to get a ryzen 1700 or a 7700k? Strictly for gaming.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


7700k but Intel's new stuff is coming soon and since you've waited so long already might as well wait a couple months.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




Don Lapre posted:

Hot air doesn't rise fast enough to overcome fan pressure. Hot air rising and cold air falling is really moot inside a pc case unless its fanless.

I think he's referring to having front mounted with fans pulling external air in. While likely a small difference, it would be superior to a top-mounted radiator doing the same.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties

Doesn't every 1 degree rise in temperature increase hard drive failure rates by a few percent a year?

Unless you have only SSDs, wouldn't it be better to accept a slightly higher CPU temperature in exchange for lower case internal temperature and have top-mounted radiators blowing out?

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003




sincx posted:

Doesn't every 1 degree rise in temperature increase hard drive failure rates by a few percent a year?

Citation needed. Google found otherwise: (see section 3.4)

Google posted:

We first look at the correlation between average tem-
perature during the observation period and failure. Fig-
ure 4 shows the distribution of drives with average tem-
perature in increments of one degree and the correspond-
ing annualized failure rates. The figure shows that fail-
ures do not increase when the average temperature in-
creases. In fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower
temperatures are associated with higher failure rates.

Only at very high temperatures is there a slight reversal
of this trend.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Are there any decent large-die-area low-power optimized processes (eg something similar to what you'd use for smartphone silicon that supports 150mm^2 dies or larger)?

I wonder if you could do a low-power micro-Navi on that.

Maxwell Adams
Oct 21, 2000

T E E F S

eames posted:

I never understood why people mount their watercooling radiators to suck air into the case. It seems like the equivalent of having a 200W space heater blowing into the case.
Top mounted radiators blowing air out on the other hand make a lot of sense.

If you have a blower-style GPU cooler, having the radiator exhaust air makes the most sense. That way you can intake cold air for everything, and the CPU and GPU are thermally isolated. If you have an open-air cooler on the GPU, you need to decide what to prioritize. You can use the radiator for intake and let the GPU deal with the warmer air coming in, or you can have the radiator exhaust, in which case it has to deal with warm air coming off the GPU.

It barely even matters, though, and probably only makes a couple degrees difference in worst-case scenarios. People just like to optimize their rigs.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




sincx posted:

Doesn't every 1 degree rise in temperature increase hard drive failure rates by a few percent a year?

Unless you have only SSDs, wouldn't it be better to accept a slightly higher CPU temperature in exchange for lower case internal temperature and have top-mounted radiators blowing out?

The first comment has already been responded to, but regarding the second: you have to remember that air is not good at conducting heat, because the molecules are too spread out to see a large amount of heat absorbed. Thus, as you'd expect, cold air is better than warm air at conducting heat, since the molecules are every so slightly closer together. So when you use a radiator to cool a liquid such as for a CLC, you're depending in part on the ambient air being cooler than the temperature of the fluid that is moving through the radiator and heating the fins, and also in that the fins are effectively reducing the opening area the air is passing through. The fan(s) pulling or pushing air in through a radiator are operating at some speed that corresponds to a flow rate though the effective open area of the radiator. Thus we're mechanically forcing the air to compress, which helps to increase, ever so slightly, the absorption capability of the air.

In terms of internal case temperature, we're counting as much on simply engaging in air exchange of the internal volume, utilizing convection to reduce internal temperatures. The temperatures you then see inside the case are going to depend a lot upon how the system is set up (positive/negative pressure), the number of fans, whether filters are present, etc. Ultimately it's important to remember that it's easy to see internal air exchange depending on fan configuration and get the internal temperature down, but it's more difficult to cool a processor, and providing the greatest delta-T for the radiator's medium (air) is advantageous.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




SamDabbers posted:

Citation needed. Google found otherwise: (see section 3.4)

Expect the tolerances are set to run within some common range.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Paul MaudDib posted:

Are there any decent large-die-area low-power optimized processes (eg something similar to what you'd use for smartphone silicon that supports 150mm^2 dies or larger)?

I wonder if you could do a low-power micro-Navi on that.

gp107 was done on the same process as one of the top tier ARM SoCs. I forgot which one, though I want to say its whatever came after the one in the american galaxy s7? 832?

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


Paul MaudDib posted:

They were coming out with a v2, I'm fairly sure I saw them at Microcenter a few weeks ago, but maybe that was old stock?

SwissArmyDruid posted:

The EK Predator is discontinued. They are now selling "complete watercooling kits in a box" now with proper fittings and soft tubing runs you cut yourself.

EK announced way back at the beginning of this year that they were going to replace the Predator AIO series with EK-MLC (modular liquid cooling) so that you could run an EK loop for your GPU only or something--I've read in a couple places that the transition to this new product line isn't going to happen for a while because 1.) EK moved a lot of their production work/storage space to a new place this spring and 2.) they're not really motivated to do it because Predator AIOs actually cut into sales of their custom loop parts/lines/kits

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Yeah, those are the things I am talking about. I saw them when I went to go see if they had updated brackets and poo poo for AM4. As part of their featureset, they come with all-aluiminum radiators and waterblocks to zero the possibility of electrolytic corrosion as well.

I haven't seen any videos on it yet, but I figure if anyone would have done a video on it by now, it'd be Jayz.

nerox
May 20, 2001


Hello friends, all my Ryzen stuff finally got here today.

I did a quick overclock and I got my Ryzen 7 1700x @ 1.38V, 3.9ghz and temps are hovering 60-65 Celsius. I really want to try to get to 4.0 ghz, but looking for information I am seeing max safe temp ranged as anywhere from 75-95 and safe voltage as anywhere from 1.4 to 1.45. Anyone know what it actually is?

Unfortunately memory is sitting at 2300mhz. When I tried to do the XMP profile 1, my computer went into a reboot loop and I had to cmos reset to fix it.

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003




nerox posted:

Hello friends, all my Ryzen stuff finally got here today.

I did a quick overclock and I got my Ryzen 7 1700x @ 1.38V, 3.9ghz and temps are hovering 60-65 Celsius. I really want to try to get to 4.0 ghz, but looking for information I am seeing max safe temp ranged as anywhere from 75-95 and safe voltage as anywhere from 1.4 to 1.45. Anyone know what it actually is?

Unfortunately memory is sitting at 2300mhz. When I tried to do the XMP profile 1, my computer went into a reboot loop and I had to cmos reset to fix it.

Ryzen overclocking presentation by an AMD employee, including recommended limits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZgpHTaQ10k#t=236s

tl;dw: CPU Vcore not higher than 1.425V, SOC at 1.1V can help memory overclocks, RAM can go anywhere from 1.35V to 1.5V depending on the stick

My R7 1700 non-X is running rock-solid at 3.7GHz on Pstate0 with a +0.0125V Vcore offset and level 3 (middle setting) LLC. It barely gets to 50C with 16 threads of prime95 with a Hyper 212 EVO. I'm using this DDR4-3000 15-16-16-35 kit which runs at DDR4-3200 16-18-18-38 on 1.35V.

SamDabbers fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jun 28, 2017

Misc
Sep 19, 2008



Whether or not you can reasonably get to 4ghz seems to be a bit of a lottery, although I assume a 1700x would have better odds.

nerox
May 20, 2001


Misc posted:

Whether or not you can reasonably get to 4ghz seems to be a bit of a lottery, although I assume a 1700x would have better odds.

Yeah I was going to get a 1700 and Amazon happened to have the 1700x for $310 one day, so I spent the extra $10. I found these stats from a overclocker chip seller:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5xybp7/silicon_lottery_ryzen_overclock_statistics/

eames
May 9, 2009



found this datasheet which may be useful

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/151hj_fgVGRk6mfVQz5eAOcFK1olCvU-ww8N6e6D6424/edit#gid=27884076

e: to be honest these 1700 builds are looking so cheap that I'm really tempted to build one just to tinker with the new architecture. I just put together a whole system sans GPU without really paying attention to the price turned out to be cheaper than the 7900X CPU alone.

eames fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jun 28, 2017

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



SwissArmyDruid posted:

Yeah, those are the things I am talking about. I saw them when I went to go see if they had updated brackets and poo poo for AM4. As part of their featureset, they come with all-aluiminum radiators and waterblocks to zero the possibility of electrolytic corrosion as well.

I haven't seen any videos on it yet, but I figure if anyone would have done a video on it by now, it'd be Jayz.

jayz did make a video. Its not as good as full copper (obviously) but still puts up solid watercooling specs. The value is really high, but does anyone else make aluminum blocks if you wanted to expand the loop?

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


Blocks not really, if you want to cool a second card right now the only way would be to buy a second kit. You CAN find pure aluminum radiators if you search around if you want to expand that way.

EK has said they plan on expanding the line though in the future with more blocks/radiators/pumps/etc, but nothing beyond "later this year".

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BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



Fauxtool posted:

jayz did make a video. Its not as good as full copper (obviously) but still puts up solid watercooling specs. The value is really high, but does anyone else make aluminum blocks if you wanted to expand the loop?

Thermaltake basically exclusively makes aluminium WC parts. It pains me whenever I walk into my local computer store and they have EK loops with Thermaltake aluminium radtiaors that I just know are going to be completely destroyed by galvanic corrosion.

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