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Otakufag
Aug 23, 2004


If you own a 144hz monitor with a modern gpu, but it is being terribly bottlenecked in the rear end by a lovely second gen i5 and wanna upgrade, would it be smarter to just get a 7700K or a Ryzen 1600/1700 and then upgrade to a zen 2 in like 2 years? Assuming of course that you won't need to change socket.

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AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



Otakufag posted:

If you own a 144hz monitor with a modern gpu, but it is being terribly bottlenecked in the rear end by a lovely second gen i5 and wanna upgrade, would it be smarter to just get a 7700K or a Ryzen 1600/1700 and then upgrade to a zen 2 in like 2 years? Assuming of course that you won't need to change socket.

The 7700k will get you more frames, the Ryzen will scale much better for stuff that uses many threads and/or multitasking. Pick your poison.

Personally I'd go with an R7 1700 because I think it will be more futureproof, but that's just me, trying to predict what will be better 5 years down the road is about as reliable as reading tea leaves.

eames
May 9, 2009



i have a R7 1700 and feel like the R5 1600 is the better buy right now unless you're running applications that really use the two additional cores (the vast majority of games doesn't). The hexacore will consume less power and produce less heat when overclocked to 4 GHz. Then upgrade to 8+ cores when better chips are out.

Coffee Lake will be released soon so at least wait until that pans out in case you decide to go with Intel.

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015



R7 1700 is definitely still a good buy also, but I'm probably a heavier user than most with streaming/recording and 3D modeling being big uses for my computer. I never felt particularly bottlenecked in individual tasks by my Broadwell i7 (just when I started multitasking) , but YMMV as always.

I'm also not a super min/maxer either (at least not until APUs start hitting the scene and I get to with them).

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






ConanTheLibrarian posted:

Intel will just bring out AVX-1024 to stay one step ahead.


Never mind that the chip will have to clock down to 800MHz to avoid spontaneous combustion.
SKL-X has to go down to to 1.3ghz for AVX-512, and AVX-256 downclocks to 65-70% on Broadwell so Intel's advantage there goes from theoretically double to just 30-40% more.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


If you want a modern hexacore from Intel, please, please wait until Coffee Lake, because apparently this poo poo is back from the Lynnfield days.

https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed...225519141093376

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


The restructured L3 cache is hurting Skylake-X relative to Kaby Lake in gaming too, the 7800X just matches the Ryzen 5 1600 at almost double the price. And that's with the overclock that caused what you see in the photo above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNMn7RWgLw#t=1160s

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jul 23, 2017

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


MaxxBot posted:

The restructured L3 cache is hurting Skylake-X relative to Kaby Lake in gaming too, the 7800X just matches the Ryzen 5 1600 at almost double the price. At that's with the overclock that caused what you see in the photo above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNMn7RWgLw#t=1160s

This also kills the idea that Skylake-X is a "premium" gaming choice. Even at 700 MHz more and a much higher price, Skylake-X fails to impress over Ryzen...

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Jul 23, 2017

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



FaustianQ posted:

If you want a modern hexacore from Intel, please, please wait until Coffee Lake, because apparently this poo poo is back from the Lynnfield days.

https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed...225519141093376

Until I see more reports of that I'll withhold judgment.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Looks like Ryzen-specific memory kits are finally starting to trickle onto the market. http://techreport.com/news/32270/ge...-memory-modules Maybe look at those instead of kludging Samsung B-die.

FaustianQ posted:

If you want a modern hexacore from Intel, please, please wait until Coffee Lake, because apparently this poo poo is back from the Lynnfield days.

https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed...225519141093376

Probably killed the motherboard AND the processor. That's a good, what, $1350 down the drain right there?

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Jul 23, 2017

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I thought that Broadwell which had the VRMs inside the CPU had that issue. Doesn't Core -X have external VRMs?

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Probably killed the motherboard AND the processor. That's a good, what, $1350 down the drain right there?

Apparently both are functioning last he checked. But this combined with X299 platform issues and the obvious poor performance I would hold off until Coffee Lake and probably suggest to ignore Intel's entire HEDT line up.

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdi5JmRmez8

some deep look at ryzen.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


I kinda stopped following news back in 2012 which was like pre bulldozer(?). Can some give me the cliff notes of the last 5 years.

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

Shaocaholica posted:

I kinda stopped following news back in 2012 which was like pre bulldozer(?). Can some give me the cliff notes of the last 5 years.
amd is good again, intel wasn't expecting this (again) and is loving up somewhat (again)

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


Shaocaholica posted:

I kinda stopped following news back in 2012 which was like pre bulldozer(?). Can some give me the cliff notes of the last 5 years.

It's 2002 again.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Haha, the look on his face, "I know some of these words, maybe I should madlib some more questions!"

spasticColon
Sep 22, 2004

In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

FaustianQ posted:

It's 2002 again.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


spasticColon posted:

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Now if only RTG/ATI could get a 2003 again.

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


Shaocaholica posted:

I kinda stopped following news back in 2012 which was like pre bulldozer(?). Can some give me the cliff notes of the last 5 years.

You can actually strongly consider buying an AMD Ryzen if you have tasks you need done faster with more CPU cores/threads, unlike anything Bulldozer.

I don't think we can call it 2002 again until we see Intel's Coffee Lake-S not live up to expectations. Intel's Skylake-X is a bit messed up in a number of ways and is priced quite high vs. Ryzens with similar core counts oh also the Ryzen matches it in a lot of games, which is a step back versus early 2017's Kaby Lake

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

You can actually strongly consider buying an AMD Ryzen if you have tasks you need done faster with more CPU cores/threads, unlike anything Bulldozer.

I don't think we can call it 2002 again until we see Intel's Coffee Lake-S not live up to expectations. Intel's Skylake-X is a bit messed up in a number of ways and is priced quite high vs. Ryzens with similar core counts oh also the Ryzen matches it in a lot of games, which is a step back versus early 2017's Kaby Lake

Fair enough, we're still in the kind of mid-late 2001 phase but AMD seems poised to deliver Tbred again while Intel futzes about with at least two distinct uarchs, one of which massively underperforms. Also AMD was kind enough to pencil in everything ahead for us this time.

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


I really hope low-power Ryzen variants pan out well, especially if AMD can get some extra cores in some mobile workstations. Asus showed that hilariously big ROG GL702ZC gaming desktop replacement using full-desktop Ryzen die at Computex, but that's of course more of a halo-tier proof of concept. A smaller 6- or 8-core device that runs cooler and quieter would be very useful for certain apps, and I hope the great yields on those mobile-oriented dies test out nicely!

e: okay, the GL702ZC isn't super-huge, it's merely somewhat heavy at 7 pounds with a 17.3-inch display and a not-modest bezel.

Nomyth fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jul 24, 2017

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



FaustianQ posted:

Fair enough, we're still in the kind of mid-late 2001 phase but AMD seems poised to deliver Tbred again while Intel futzes about with at least two distinct uarchs, one of which massively underperforms. Also AMD was kind enough to pencil in everything ahead for us this time.

I wouldn't say SLX massively underperforms, I would say its not the victory lap that some people were expecting. It's slightly faster than Broadwell-E at much cheaper prices per core, and with a more modern platform. Those expecting a zero-compromise, mega overclocking many core Skylake experience might be disappointed, but that was never really in the cards. I thought we all learned not to listen to computer part manufacturer marketing, but I guess not.

Ryzen competes favorable in a price/performance view with some of the lineup, and thats a good thing! But I would be careful putting too much faith in AMD. This is AMD were talking about, afterall. Take it for what it is right now.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


Core to core, Ryzen is outperforming Skylake-X as much as Kabylake outperforms Ryzen, so there does seem to be a rather huge gap between the two Intel uarchs from my perspective and it's likely Intel has locked themselves in on this Mesh design until like, 2020-21 for HEDT and server at the very least. Maybe it's just a cache size issue but cache is power hungry and Skylake-X is already a power hungry.

When talking about gaming anyway, productivity wise Skylake-X seems perfectly fine if not running a bit hot.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


FaustianQ posted:

Core to core, Ryzen is outperforming Skylake-X as much as Kabylake outperforms Ryzen



Not really, Skylake-X is still faster both stock and OC'd, but the gaming IPC is definitely undershooting pretty bad (17.5%). In fact the total score is probably clocking in right around BW-E or Haswell-E.

This is also gaming, and regular workloads don't seem to be affected as much by the cache and mesh. It's also possible that games need to be patched or BIOSs updated.

But as things stand, it's definitely not looking like a particularly good option for gaming. Gaming IPC is probably a regression from HW-E at the moment.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


Paul MaudDib posted:



Not really, Skylake-X is still faster both stock and OC'd, but the gaming IPC is definitely undershooting pretty bad (17.5%). In fact the total score is probably clocking in right around BW-E or Haswell-E.

This is also gaming, and regular workloads don't seem to be affected as much by the cache and mesh. It's also possible that games need to be patched or BIOSs updated.

But as things stand, it's definitely not looking like a particularly good option for gaming. Gaming IPC is probably a regression from HW-E at the moment.

Hmmmm...looking a little closer at HWUBs benchmarks it's actually looking like the 7800X gets absolutely nothing from being overclocked in gaming which is...what? The 7700K and 1600 love being overclocked though.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Anyone making or will make a proper dual socket Ryzen workstation?

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Shaocaholica posted:

Anyone making or will make a proper dual socket Ryzen workstation?

Regular Ryzen won't ever be dual socket, only Epyc supports dual socket. 16 core Ryzen workstation parts are due very soon (Threadripper).

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


It seems like single socket would be more attractive unless you really need more than 32 cores because the single socket only 24 and 32-core EPYC is pretty cheap for what you're getting.



Compared to the 2P parts:

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jul 24, 2017

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


64/128 hahaha. What times we live in.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


You could build two entire workstations based on the EPYC 7401P for the cost of one 24-core Xeon CPU from Intel

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor


MaxxBot posted:

You could build two entire workstations based on the EPYC 7401P for the cost of one 24-core Xeon CPU from Intel

and the combined amd systems might end up using less power then that one xeon box.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



'Sup Shao.



AMD is going to cut the low-end 2P market out from under Intel with a meat cleaver and leave them crawling around on the stumps.

Those are the server parts. The HEDT parts are coming this fall called Threadripper. As far as we know, the flagship is 16c/32t, 3.4GHz/4.0GHz base/boost, 32MB L3, 8MB L2 (inclusive), 64 lanes and quad-channel, rumored to be $999 at launch, cooling solution included.

Also, QFT:

MaxxBot posted:

You could build two entire workstations based on the EPYC 7401P for the cost of one 24-core Xeon CPU from Intel

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jul 24, 2017

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Paul MaudDib posted:

This is also gaming, and regular workloads don't seem to be affected as much by the cache and mesh. It's also possible that games need to be patched or BIOSs updated.
I do seem to remember those hilarious Intel slides, which imply very heavily, that that's the sort of thing their platform doesn't require.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


MaxxBot posted:

You could build two entire workstations based on the EPYC 7401P for the cost of one 24-core Xeon CPU from Intel

I want to quote this for an entire page or two

Anarchist Mae
Nov 5, 2009

by Reene


Lipstick Apathy

AMD unveils Ryzen Threadripper packaging.



Uhh.... hmmm.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


A SWEATY FATBEARD
Oct 6, 2012

Entering of the person whom the nasty smell does is refused.



What exactly am I looking at? A bottle of cologne? A genuine "Lorex" wristwatch? A CRT TV set from 1966?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

That packaging makes me feel guilty of even wanting one.

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eames
May 9, 2009



I'm going to be really disappointed if it doesn't light up with a little built in LED and battery.

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