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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I only remember some article talking about how influential the show was at the time but then completely forgotten the moment it went off the air, to the point where the Futurama joke about how it was completely forgotten in the future was unintentionally apropos.

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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


MariusLecter posted:

Want to see a person fake needing CPR and then get their rib cage flattened out.

And then not even get the "making out" cause rescue breaths are only resorted to when enough time has passed that the oxygen in your blood is likely depleted.

Good luck landing a 90s sitcom writing job with that attitude.

evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!

Pillbug

Remember the episode where a female employee sued her boss for sexual harassment because he hosed all the women in his company, but not her.

Also remember another fatphobic one where a big fat guy was really sweaty, so they put deodorant all over him with paint rollers before a meeting.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


MariusLecter posted:

Want to see a person fake needing CPR and then get their rib cage flattened out.

As a non-medical professional who has given chest compressions, I don't recommend it. The feeling of ribs breaking will haunt me for a long time.

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014



Sucrose posted:

Who even makes a comedy scene around giving someone CPR to begin with? If you've ever had to give someone CPR, you wouldn't find anything funny about it. More like "oh god I'm hoping against hope that this person will come back to life." One of the worst loving things you can ever have to do.

It's a sick world we live in. I'm reminded of the 1979 comedy film The Jerk, where the main character comes under fire from a madman with a rifle. Anyone who's actually been shot at would know there's NOTHING funny about something like that!

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



Crespolini posted:

It's a sick world we live in. I'm reminded of the 1979 comedy film The Jerk, where the main character comes under fire from a madman with a rifle. Anyone who's actually been shot at would know there's NOTHING funny about something like that!

Also playing a madman shooting at a black guy for laughs is definitely not something that has aged well.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

Crespolini posted:

It's a sick world we live in. I'm reminded of the 1979 comedy film The Jerk, where the main character comes under fire from a madman with a rifle. Anyone who's actually been shot at would know there's NOTHING funny about something like that!

This reminded me that there’s an anecdote in Black Hawk Down where two Rangers are under fire next to a tin shack, and they start yelling the “Stay away from the cans!” line from The Jerk and laughing at each other based on the sound of the bullets hitting just above their heads.

Dirt Road Junglist
Oct 8, 2010

There's a ghost in me
Who wants to say I'm sorry
Doesn't mean I'm sorry






Crespolini posted:

It's a sick world we live in. I'm reminded of the 1979 comedy film The Jerk, where the main character comes under fire from a madman with a rifle. Anyone who's actually been shot at would know there's NOTHING funny about something like that!

Reminds me of how the first scene in Heathers involves a fake school shooting.

And it's completely trivialized. "He used blanks! They'll just suspend him for a few days."

Carnotaurus
Feb 26, 2006

meat-eating bull


Toshimo posted:

The Sandlot?

Speaking of The Sandlot, the guy that played Benny the Jet Rodriquez and two other guys nearly beat a man to death. They chased him down, beat him and then they choked him out until he went in to cardiac arrest because he was walking around their neighborhood handing out candy to kids on Halloween.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/two-l-firefighters-including-sandlot-actor-mike-vitar-charged-assault-n476586

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!




Dirt Road Junglist posted:

Reminds me of how the first scene in Heathers involves a fake school shooting.

And it's completely trivialized. "He used blanks! They'll just suspend him for a few days."

https://youtu.be/xG3yGdQYwqg


quote:

Brown admitted in a July 2000 interview that after the Columbine High School massacre she no longer felt comfortable performing "Homecoming Queen", even though the circumstances of the song were quite different from the real-life events, and it had been comic at the time of its debut. "I can be very sensitive about whether I am doing something that will hurt people," Brown said. "So you are always drawing the comedy line of what you will or won't do."

I did not know this song had a music video

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

oh ar


Dirt Road Junglist posted:

Reminds me of how the first scene in Heathers involves a fake school shooting.

And it's completely trivialized. "He used blanks! They'll just suspend him for a few days."

Yeah, imagine Heathers mocking something like *checks wikipedia page* oh gently caress

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Rescue breaths suck and are often worse than doing nothing because most people will overinflate the patient’s lungs and the increased chest pressure makes the compressions less effective. Not worth it for the little benefit a bunch of 16 percent O2 gives when the person’s brain is in low power mode anyway.

Yeah but when most of those scenes were written BLS was all about the 30:2 compressions:breath ratio. It's cool how stuff like even basic care like CPR keeps evolving.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Ravenfood posted:

Yeah but when most of those scenes were written BLS was all about the 30:2 compressions:breath ratio. It's cool how stuff like even basic care like CPR keeps evolving.

Yeah, I guess that CPR = Kissing stock joke is probably going to/has already died off now that they no longer tell you to do the breaths. I think Malcom's Dad even references this in the one episode of Breaking Bad I've seen.

bobjr
Oct 16, 2012

Roose is loose.



I was watching older episodes of Whose Line is it Anyway, and one well they kept going to was how fat and ugly Monika Lewinsky was. It probably wasn’t the only show doing that, but it kind of stands out with the 90’s theme of “woman who isn’t super thin deserves ridicule and questions why anyone would have sex with her”

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

bobjr posted:

I was watching older episodes of Whose Line is it Anyway, and one well they kept going to was how fat and ugly Monika Lewinsky was. It probably wasn’t the only show doing that, but it kind of stands out with the 90’s theme of “woman who isn’t super thin deserves ridicule and questions why anyone would have sex with her”

Pretty much all the media surrounding Bill Clinton's presidency has aged poorly (as has Bill Clinton's presidency itself).

Jon Ronson did a really good interview with Lewinsky a few years back in which it became clear how horribly pretty much everyone involved (but especially Linda Tripp) treated her at the time. Clinton himself was one of the few people she didn't have much bad to say about.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


bobjr posted:

I was watching older episodes of Whose Line is it Anyway, and one well they kept going to was how fat and ugly Monika Lewinsky was. It probably wasn’t the only show doing that, but it kind of stands out with the 90’s theme of “woman who isn’t super thin deserves ridicule and questions why anyone would have sex with her”

Ugh, yes. That and the slut-shaming of her is REALLY bad in retrospect.

Although funnily enough, I remember and SNL sketch from that era that sort of tackled this.

John Goodman was hosting, and I think Cheri Oteri and someone else were basically playing Regis and Kathie Lee, and John Goodman was the token producer who always was on camera saying stuff back to them.

Cheri and the guy (maybe Will Farrell?) were going on and on about how fat Monica Lewinksy was, and were constantly getting interrupted by Goodman who had to correct them every time that she really wasn't that fat at all.

I'd like to think it was some sort of meta-commentary on how all these talking heads were loving assholes calling her "fat" when she was barely overweight, but I think it was more of a "have their cake and eat it too" scenario where they still got to call her fat, but then ALSO have someone else (who is also large) correct them.

InediblePenguin
Sep 27, 2004


i feel like that joke was simply "lol this man is also fat" and you're being too generous tbh

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me

The whole comedy and discussion from it is just all horrible in hindsight and especially how Lewinsky was portrayed. Off the top of my hazy recollection:

1) they always portrayed her as kind of a bimbo and she is a fairly intelligent woman.
2) the whole "Clinton likes chubby girls" for a normal looking woman.
3) also the implication that powerful people should get pretty women is pretty hosed up.
4) obviously power dynamics at play.

But lol she's fat and a bimbo was easy to write I guess.

F_Shit_Fitzgerald
Feb 2, 2017





docbeard posted:

Pretty much all the media surrounding Bill Clinton's presidency has aged poorly (as has Bill Clinton's presidency itself).

Jon Ronson did a really good interview with Lewinsky a few years back in which it became clear how horribly pretty much everyone involved (but especially Linda Tripp) treated her at the time. Clinton himself was one of the few people she didn't have much bad to say about.

Last year, one of the cable channels - maybe Vice? - did a multi-part series on Lewinsky and the entire scandal. It made me feel terrible for her - and retroactively angry. A twenty-two intern is propositioned by her boss, a man more than twice her age, and she's the one made out to be a temptress in the media.

Clinton's a real piece of poo poo.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Dirt Road Junglist posted:

Reminds me of how the first scene in Heathers involves a fake school shooting.

And it's completely trivialized. "He used blanks! They'll just suspend him for a few days."

Although it probably depended on where you lived, anecdotally schools were a whole lot more violent in the 70's and 80's.

In an interview on The Realto Report*, Seka talked about how often there were stabbings and shootings in the halls in her high school in the 70's.

My roommate has told me about some of her US high school experiences in the 80's, and apparently they were just as bad.

Hell, there's even a "lost" episode of Beavis and Butthead, where the punchline is that having a gun in school was fine as long as you didn't take it out in class.

It seems like for a while public schools were very neglected, and greatest/silent parents didn't really give a poo poo what went on, as long as the kid was able to get a job and kick rocks at 18.

At least when boomer parents^ had kids in school they were pushing for improvements, and trying to make them safer. That's how you got a big push to ban weapons and add security. Columbine just managed to push everything over the edge and school shootings became a real concern.

*The Rialto Report is a great podcast about the "golden age of porn" the 70's & 80's, lots of interviews with the old actors and others involved. It's really interesting.

^of course we now know that boomers are following in their parents' footsteps now that they don't have kids in schools and want them dismantled because taxes.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Mooseontheloose posted:

The whole comedy and discussion from it is just all horrible in hindsight and especially how Lewinsky was portrayed. Off the top of my hazy recollection:

1) they always portrayed her as kind of a bimbo and she is a fairly intelligent woman.
2) the whole "Clinton likes chubby girls" for a normal looking woman.
3) also the implication that powerful people should get pretty women is pretty hosed up.
4) obviously power dynamics at play.

But lol she's fat and a bimbo was easy to write I guess.

Heroin chic was in big time during the 90's, any woman who wasn't rail thin was considered some kind of land whale in the media.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me

Iron Crowned posted:

Heroin chic was in big time during the 90's, any woman who wasn't rail thin was considered some kind of land whale in the media.

I know/remember. Ally McBeal being a great example.

Casnorf
Jun 14, 2002

Never drive a car when you're a fish

Iron Crowned posted:

Hell, there's even a "lost" episode of Beavis and Butthead, where the punchline is that having a gun in school was fine as long as you didn't take it out in class.

I can vouch for this being sadly true in the mid 90's. Not my favorite day.

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





Iron Crowned posted:

It seems like for a while public schools were very neglected, and greatest/silent parents didn't really give a poo poo what went on, as long as the kid was able to get a job and kick rocks at 18.

when i was in highschool in the early 2000s, zero tolerance for bullying, violence and verbal abuse was a strange new school policy... which indirectly implies a prior policy of some tolerance for those things, presumably a mindset of 'kids gotta harden themselves to the fact that sometimes other people will just be assholes and will indiscriminately level cruelty at you' justified leaving children to the tender mercies of one another w/o intervention, so long as no one was getting seriously injured (physically)

Whybird
Aug 2, 2009

Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar




Nap Ghost

hard counter posted:

when i was in highschool in the early 2000s, zero tolerance for bullying, violence and verbal abuse was a strange new school policy... which indirectly implies a prior policy of some tolerance for those things, presumably a mindset of 'kids gotta harden themselves to the fact that sometimes other people will just be assholes and will indiscriminately level cruelty at you' justified leaving children to the tender mercies of one another w/o intervention, so long as no one was getting seriously injured (physically)

It was new in the sense that without a zero tolerance policy, the policy implicitly becomes "do something as and when the victim asks for help", and the thing about bullying is that it teaches you to believe that you don't deserve to be helped.

Fish of hemp
Apr 1, 2011


F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Last year, one of the cable channels - maybe Vice? - did a multi-part series on Lewinsky and the entire scandal. It made me feel terrible for her - and retroactively angry. A twenty-two intern is propositioned by her boss, a man more than twice her age, and she's the one made out to be a temptress in the media.

Clinton's a real piece of poo poo.

And the boss is literally one of the most powerful men on Earth. Talk about power dynamics.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




'Zero tolerance' tends to just mean reporting getting bullied means you get punished the same as the bully does for 'starting it'.

Makes a lot of sense to realise that to boomers, school is literally just babysitting.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Ghost Leviathan posted:

'Zero tolerance' tends to just mean reporting getting bullied means you get punished the same as the bully does for 'starting it'.

Makes a lot of sense to realise that to boomers, school is literally just babysitting.

To boomers--the white ones of means who created and ruled the suburbs--school is a mechanism for getting their kid ahead at the expense of other kids, most explicitly the black ones back in the city getting shoved into the prison pipeline but also the other white kids at the local school whose parents don't cajole and complain about their kids' situation. Everyone else's kid, they're just a burden to be warehoused and a waste of public money that shouldn't even be collected in the first place.

It's a two-handed thing where unequal advantages have to be built into a system that also serves to weed out and destroy everyone for whom the system is not meant to serve. The reason boomers hate schools is that they only care about getting advantages for their own kids, which is why they all went nuts for AP classes and advanced-track curricula. It's also why they turned on public universities once nonwhite kids started getting a fairer shot at getting into them.

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018


Mooseontheloose posted:

The whole comedy and discussion from it is just all horrible in hindsight and especially how Lewinsky was portrayed. Off the top of my hazy recollection:

1) they always portrayed her as kind of a bimbo and she is a fairly intelligent woman.
2) the whole "Clinton likes chubby girls" for a normal looking woman.
3) also the implication that powerful people should get pretty women is pretty hosed up.
4) obviously power dynamics at play.

But lol she's fat and a bimbo was easy to write I guess.

bill clinton was also seen as kind of a trashy hillbilly so obviously any woman he conned into sleeping with him must just be awful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYt0khR_ej0

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


Dirt Road Junglist posted:

Reminds me of how the first scene in Heathers involves a fake school shooting.

And it's completely trivialized. "He used blanks! They'll just suspend him for a few days."

i did peace corps for a few years and during my first few months in country i agreed to help my host sister edit her high school graduation video.

the video starts out with an extended "comedic" sequence of a boy going room to room in her school with a realistic looking automatic rifle and pretending to fire upon scores of students who all flail around wildly and drop to the floor motionless. her and her friends are next to me cracking tf up, looking expectantly to me for my feedback. "uhh looks great so far! i don't think you guys need my help with this after all"

they just had no frame of reference for this kind of thing outside of hollywood movies. we truly live in another reality

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





hard counter posted:

when i was in highschool in the early 2000s, zero tolerance for bullying, violence and verbal abuse was a strange new school policy... which indirectly implies a prior policy of some tolerance for those things, presumably a mindset of 'kids gotta harden themselves to the fact that sometimes other people will just be assholes and will indiscriminately level cruelty at you' justified leaving children to the tender mercies of one another w/o intervention, so long as no one was getting seriously injured (physically)

A zero tolerance policy means that on paper punishments are defined without any flexibility, which is bad enough on its own, but in practice also means that disproportiate punishments can be given out without reason (ie: zero tolerance drugs policy means you can book a kid for having cough drops if you want, and they get punished as if they brought something illegal to school)

And of course since there is a zero tolerance policy for being in a fight, if some rear end in a top hat attacks another kid, the rule is both of them get punished for fighting. Or since there's a zero tolerance policy for guns, if an eight year old black kid holds a L-shaped piece of paper and pretends to shoot a gun, following the school's weapons and violence procedures means arresting the kid.

See also kids getting arrested for eating french fries on the subway, because of a zero tolerance policy.

In short, it's minimum sentencing laws, but For Kids

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

I never made that connection, but that's a great tl;dr

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

To boomers--the white ones of means who created and ruled the suburbs--school is a mechanism for getting their kid ahead at the expense of other kids, most explicitly the black ones back in the city getting shoved into the prison pipeline but also the other white kids at the local school whose parents don't cajole and complain about their kids' situation. Everyone else's kid, they're just a burden to be warehoused and a waste of public money that shouldn't even be collected in the first place.

It's a two-handed thing where unequal advantages have to be built into a system that also serves to weed out and destroy everyone for whom the system is not meant to serve. The reason boomers hate schools is that they only care about getting advantages for their own kids, which is why they all went nuts for AP classes and advanced-track curricula. It's also why they turned on public universities once nonwhite kids started getting a fairer shot at getting into them.

Keeping in mind when the boomers really came into power their perception of the dangers of the city permeated how we do punishment, enforcement, ect. So in non-city districts, they were applying the same mindsets. Which as we have learned mean that black students got punished and white kids got to skate in suburban districts.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006




College Slice

God Hole posted:

i did peace corps for a few years and during my first few months in country i agreed to help my host sister edit her high school graduation video.

the video starts out with an extended "comedic" sequence of a boy going room to room in her school with a realistic looking automatic rifle and pretending to fire upon scores of students who all flail around wildly and drop to the floor motionless. her and her friends are next to me cracking tf up, looking expectantly to me for my feedback. "uhh looks great so far! i don't think you guys need my help with this after all"

they just had no frame of reference for this kind of thing outside of hollywood movies. we truly live in another reality

Back in college I acted in a friend’s film project wherein a student bursts into a classroom and opens fire on everyone inside. I never saw the final project, but I was under the impression that it was to be a humorous film.

While she was editing that film, Columbine happened.

It didn’t go over too well when she showed it in class.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Tunicate posted:

A zero tolerance policy means that on paper punishments are defined without any flexibility, which is bad enough on its own, but in practice also means that disproportiate punishments can be given out without reason (ie: zero tolerance drugs policy means you can book a kid for having cough drops if you want, and they get punished as if they brought something illegal to school)

And of course since there is a zero tolerance policy for being in a fight, if some rear end in a top hat attacks another kid, the rule is both of them get punished for fighting. Or since there's a zero tolerance policy for guns, if an eight year old black kid holds a L-shaped piece of paper and pretends to shoot a gun, following the school's weapons and violence procedures means arresting the kid.

See also kids getting arrested for eating french fries on the subway, because of a zero tolerance policy.

In short, it's minimum sentencing laws, but For Kids

Yep. A bully and her friends jumped me after class in high school once, she got expelled but I got suspended because I couldn't say to the principal 100% truthfully that I didn't raise my arms to defend myself in any way while I was being beaten from all sides.

Luckily literally every single teacher realized it was bullshit letter of the law stuff and it never gave me any problems, but it was real stupid. I'm sure it helped that I was a white academically-successful university-track student, even if I was obviously queer.

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014



Jedit posted:

Also playing a madman shooting at a black guy for laughs is definitely not something that has aged well.

He's shooting at the cans, but yes.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Mooseontheloose posted:

Keeping in mind when the boomers really came into power their perception of the dangers of the city permeated how we do punishment, enforcement, ect. So in non-city districts, they were applying the same mindsets. Which as we have learned mean that black students got punished and white kids got to skate in suburban districts.

If you've got an hour, this is a pretty good recent podcast episode that gets into these questions in greater depth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfsncJIamVw

The guy's book costs $50, which is way too much, but the discussion lays out the big claims pretty well and provides some citations for further reading.

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





it's pretty interesting to read the various ways other schools have made use of zero tolerance policies

zero tolerance at our school meant, if the instigator of violence, bullying, abuse, etc could be determined, they would receive a fairly standardized punishment, like detention or w/e, generally in proportion to their action, but with a bottom cap on the punishment even in the case where the infraction was argued to be relatively minor, there was no element of unlimited potential for punishment here, only a ground floor to keep kids from teasing each other even in ways that would be considered 'minor,' or 'harmless' since small things could still incur some intervention

being in highschool in the early 2000s meant homophobic slurs were extremely regular insults that kids threw recklessly at one another, for e.g., but if anyone actually complained about this language, or if someone was caught targeting others with this kind of abuse by a supervisor or w/e, it was still treated as something worth issuing a punishment over, even if some people argued, based on norms, it was just casual, meaningless teasing

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



hard counter posted:

it's pretty interesting to read the various ways other schools have made use of zero tolerance policies

zero tolerance at our school meant, if the instigator of violence, bullying, abuse, etc could be determined, they would receive a fairly standardized punishment, like detention or w/e, generally in proportion to their action, but with a bottom cap on the punishment even in the case where the infraction was argued to be relatively minor, there was no element of unlimited potential for punishment here, only a ground floor to keep kids from teasing each other even in ways that would be considered 'minor,' or 'harmless' since small things could still incur some intervention

being in highschool in the early 2000s meant homophobic slurs were extremely regular insults that kids threw recklessly at one another, for e.g., but if anyone actually complained about this language, or if someone was caught targeting others with this kind of abuse by a supervisor or w/e, it was still treated as something worth issuing a punishment over, even if some people argued, based on norms, it was just casual, meaningless teasing

Tell me you’re white without saying ‘I’m white’.

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Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Zero-tolerance policies served the related but distinct goals of criminalizing all children in urban schools, who threatened suburbia from without, and of creating a bulwark against the imagined corruption of suburban children, who threatened it from within. The same rough era cast dungeons and dragons, shopping malls, and rap as malign influences that would turn white children into dangers for suburbia. The bad influences had to be identified and cast away so as to preserve the uncorrupted children alongside them.

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