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hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





Captain Monkey posted:

Tell me you’re white without saying ‘I’m white’.

the school i went to in the canadian boonies was minority white, both in terms of the teaching staff/administration and the student body (one year we got a mention in the provincial news for being 25% white, 25%, east asian, 25% south asian, 25% misc); presumably the administration altered zero policy to fit their needs since i'm hearing wildly different implementations here, it's been illuminating to read in any case

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Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

Must be fuckin' nice!


Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

canada has been shown to have a hell of a zero tolerance policy in its first nations schools

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

This post brought to you by RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS.
RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS - It's for your phoneTM #ad



Fittingly, I have zero tolerance for Canadians

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





harsh but fair

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Ally McBeal genuinely seems like a weird cultural fever dream in hindsight.

Remember when they sent Robert Downey Jr. there at the height of his drug and legal problems?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqjjewT_KA

Jesus look at how loving drugged this man is.

Picnic Princess
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die




I grew up in a small town on the Canadian prairie and the principal used to hit kids with rulers and belts when I was in elementary school. If you were REALLY bad you got the belt on your bare rear end. This was not questioned by other adults either. Teachers were okay with it, parents were okay with it. I'd go home and mention someone from my class was sent to the office and got the belt. And I'm not even 40 yet. I think that poo poo died in cities a number of years earlier, at least near where I was.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Canada also still has federally funded Catholic schools, which are insane and bad.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


Dirt Road Junglist posted:

Reminds me of how the first scene in Heathers involves a fake school shooting.

And it's completely trivialized. "He used blanks! They'll just suspend him for a few days."

There’s a 1997 ep of The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa go to military school. One joke has Bart undergo weapons training and the instructor assumes that since he goes to public school he must already have extensive experience with “small arms” and so immediately hands him a grenade launcher.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Magic Hate Ball posted:

Canada also still has federally funded Catholic schools, which are insane and bad.

Not federally funded. Education is a provincial/territorial responsibility in Canada. You may be thinking of how Ontario has two public school systems, one of which is Catholic; this is a requirement in the province’s constitution.

WaywardWoodwose
May 19, 2008

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Picnic Princess posted:

I grew up in a small town on the Canadian prairie and the principal used to hit kids with rulers and belts when I was in elementary school. If you were REALLY bad you got the belt on your bare rear end. This was not questioned by other adults either. Teachers were okay with it, parents were okay with it. I'd go home and mention someone from my class was sent to the office and got the belt. And I'm not even 40 yet. I think that poo poo died in cities a number of years earlier, at least near where I was.

It drives me crazy that all the people i know who are fine with this completely lose their poo poo when i bring up elder abuse. Like lots of the things I saw or had done to me as a punishment growing up would now be considered sexual assault. I can't even be around a lot of family members anymore because we can't find compromise between "never hit a woman or an old person" and " if you pull my hair, hit me, or throw boiling water on me again I will beat the everloving poo poo out of you".

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Arivia posted:

Not federally funded. Education is a provincial/territorial responsibility in Canada. You may be thinking of how Ontario has two public school systems, one of which is Catholic; this is a requirement in the province’s constitution.

Oop, you're right. Still stupid and lovely, though.

impossiboobs
Oct 2, 2006



Magic Hate Ball posted:

Oop, you're right. Still stupid and lovely, though.

The shittiest part is that most Ontario Catholic School boards require staff to be Catholic. Like you need to give them your baptism records and/or a reference from your priest. Even admin staff.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


you know i'm not sure if this is an actual empirical change in modern media, but i noticed that the trope of the buttmonkey doesn't appear as prominently as it used to. you know what i'm talking about, the hapless character who for some reason is the victim of abuse from various kinds of people, sometimes through misunderstandings through no fault of their own, or sometimes just simply for no reason at all. there are lots of examples, but my go to is Cat from Catdog. Dog got abused too, but it was mostly directed towards Cat, and sometimes the latter's abuse was directly the result of the former. it was one of my least favorite shows growing up cause Cat just kept getting beaten up for no other reason than because a lot of people out there thought it was funny to see otherwise harmless people getting victimized.

another example are the eds from ed, edd and eddy. of the three, you can really only make a case for eddy being deserving of the beatings they normally get, but the other two almost always wind up suffering the same consequences. one of the episodes that sticks in my mind is the one where edd and jimmy are about to fight cause of some misunderstanding. edd didn't do anything evil or malicious to jimmy (at least not intentionally) but wound up getting the poo poo kicked out of him and that's how the episode ends. that's just one example but the entire show is like that. legit makes me wonder what this says about t.v. viewers

bobjr
Oct 16, 2012

Roose is loose.



Jerry from Parks and Rec might be the last big example of that? They eventually reveal he has a great life outside the department, but even the nicer characters go out of their way to treat him like poo poo or do nothing to help him, except Ben.

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





i feel like archer would have a few of those, but there's plenty of abuse to go around in general so it may not count

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

This avatar brought to you by Mountain DewTM





bobjr posted:

Jerry from Parks and Rec might be the last big example of that? They eventually reveal he has a great life outside the department, but even the nicer characters go out of their way to treat him like poo poo or do nothing to help him, except Ben.

One of the many reasons Ben is my favourite characters is that he tries to stop the abuse and is very supportive of Gary

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Mr Interweb posted:

my go to is Cat from Catdog. Dog got abused too, but it was mostly directed towards Cat, and sometimes the latter's abuse was directly the result of the former. it was one of my least favorite shows growing up cause Cat just kept getting beaten up for no other reason than because a lot of people out there thought it was funny to see otherwise harmless people getting victimized.
My younger brother used to be big mad about how Cat suffered in Catdog.

Ngl I always thought it was funny how they basically repurposed that exact dynamic for Squidward/Spongebob but when they did it was somehow comedy gold? I swear I'll never understand why Spongebob became this Juggernaut when it was indistinguishable from every other Nicktoon of its era. It's not bad, but seriously.

Do you know what's aged really loving badly? Shrek and Shrek-adjacent things. Zoomers go to the mat for Shrek and get shocked when I mention that I think it's mediocre at best, but they're what marketers want to court now so in the past week we got like three separate examples of "Holding out for a Hero" in nerd poo poo and it's just like... come the gently caress on dudes. Please. No more. It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time they did it. It's only ever been mildly amusing. Just stop it. Please.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


I always hated that trope and the one example I hated the most was Dexter in Dexter’s lab. That show seemed entirely dedicated to showing his life being made hell by his sister for absolutely no reason. I wonder if there was an anti-intellectual bent to it.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

Must be fuckin' nice!


AceOfFlames posted:

I always hated that trope and the one example I hated the most was Dexter in Dexter’s lab. That show seemed entirely dedicated to showing his life being made hell by his sister for absolutely no reason. I wonder if there was an anti-intellectual bent to it.

I feel like Genndy Tartakovsky is like the least likely showrunner for an anti-intellectual bent.

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?





Family Guy is low-hanging fruit but Meg is probably still the most persistent example of a buttmonkey.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


Toshimo posted:

I feel like Genndy Tartakovsky is like the least likely showrunner for an anti-intellectual bent.

Yeah, if anything it was to lean into the absurdity of the premise.

And you regularly had Dexter berate his sister Deedee as "stupid" and to more often than any time she did any damage to his laboratory. So it felt more punishment for his hubris.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!




mind the walrus posted:

My younger brother used to be big mad about how Cat suffered in Catdog.

Ngl I always thought it was funny how they basically repurposed that exact dynamic for Squidward/Spongebob but when they did it was somehow comedy gold? I swear I'll never understand why Spongebob became this Juggernaut when it was indistinguishable from every other Nicktoon of its era. It's not bad, but seriously.

Do you know what's aged really loving badly? Shrek and Shrek-adjacent things. Zoomers go to the mat for Shrek and get shocked when I mention that I think it's mediocre at best, but they're what marketers want to court now so in the past week we got like three separate examples of "Holding out for a Hero" in nerd poo poo and it's just like... come the gently caress on dudes. Please. No more. It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time they did it. It's only ever been mildly amusing. Just stop it. Please.

That song is great OP

https://youtu.be/QsCeevaoq-I

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Remember: Watching someone sleep to harass them when they wake up is only considered acceptable to psychopaths, and registered nurses.

mind the walrus posted:

My younger brother used to be big mad about how Cat suffered in Catdog.

Ngl I always thought it was funny how they basically repurposed that exact dynamic for Squidward/Spongebob but when they did it was somehow comedy gold? I swear I'll never understand why Spongebob became this Juggernaut when it was indistinguishable from every other Nicktoon of its era. It's not bad, but seriously.

I feel like the reason Spongebob managed that dynamic while something like Catdog didn't was for a couple reasons.
A: Squidward isn't strongly attached to the protagonist, either literally or figuratively. With Cat (or perhaps in a less literal example Lisa Simpson), you have to accommodate him into the narrative every single time, while if Squidward doesn't add anything to a story you can just not have Squidward there.

B: More in a general 'why did this one take off' sense, I think it's important to remember when exactly it came around. Spongebob happened in that weird era of children's cartoons when people were just doing weird, sometimes ugly artstyles because nobody else had done them before. A lot of those shows were... well, super ugly. Some made that work for their vibe and energy (Rugrats, Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy), some succeeded in spite of their look (As Told By Ginger), while some... really didn't (Angela Anaconda, Rocket Power). It was a big, weird wild west of people going 'there's no rule saying we can't look like this' and then many of them learning that, hey, maybe there's a reason we shouldn't.

And then suddenly, in the midst of all that, came Spongebob. Using the 'nobody can tell us we can't' to make a really off-the-wall aesthetic work for it, making a whole cast of colorful and marketable characters. It was a huge hit--and was exactly what Nickelodeon needed, because none of their other weirdo-aesthetic cartoons were landing nearly as well. So they pushed the hell out of it, and thankfully, Spongebob could handle the pressure.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

If you see me posting tell me to log off and get back to work on my Teledji fanfiction!!!

#1 Teledji Adeledji fan - Monetarists Did Nothing Wrong


Vandar posted:

Family Guy is low-hanging fruit but Meg is probably still the most persistent example of a buttmonkey.

American Dad does the same thing with the fish.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


sassassin posted:

American Dad does the same thing with the fish.

To be fair, the fish is a neo nazi.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

MariusLecter posted:

To be fair, the fish is a neo nazi.

I haven’t kept up with the show, but when did that happen? For a long time, he was just a weird former East German skier.

kupachek
Aug 5, 2015

We both like to hang out in public bathrooms?!

fartknocker posted:

I haven’t kept up with the show, but when did that happen? For a long time, he was just a weird former East German skier.

Apparently the 'neo-nazi' thing is solely because of a comment in an episode about the 'heroic' defense against the Allied powers in the war. Otherwise he is just a former East German Olympic Skier.
I've only seen a few bits of the first three seasons when they aired, I didn't even know it was still on the air. but that kind of non-sequitur throwaway line fits with what I remember of Seth MacFarlane's comedy style from the small bits I did see of his shows back then.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


American Dad has really come a long way. It's turned into something really quite strange and really quite good

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Barry Foster posted:

American Dad has really come a long way. It's turned into something really quite strange and really quite good

Agreed. I loving love Rogu and I don't know why.

RaspberryCommie
May 3, 2008

Stop! My penis can only get so erect.


Barry Foster posted:

American Dad has really come a long way. It's turned into something really quite strange and really quite good

This is because MacFarlane stopped being involved in the writing super early on, so the show managed to avoid the turn Family Guy had into gross, mean-spirited tryhardism.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

MariusLecter posted:

And you regularly had Dexter berate his sister Deedee as "stupid" and to more often than any time she did any damage to his laboratory. So it felt more punishment for his hubris.
With the ultimate example being the movie, because it turns out that she was "the one that saved the future", but he only went to the future because the robots that he had built to kill her because he was mad he didn't save the future came back and he just assumed with his huge ego that he was the one that saved the future

do I have to spoiler tag a 20 year old made for tv cartoon movie, cause I'm gonna anyway

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

kupachek posted:

Apparently the 'neo-nazi' thing is solely because of a comment in an episode about the 'heroic' defense against the Allied powers in the war. Otherwise he is just a former East German Olympic Skier.

That's it? I remember the episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Hs6VPJKXg

But yeah, American Dad after a few seasons once McFarland stopped being as involved developed its own tone and it's considerably different from Family Guy or his other shows. Stuff like In Country... Club is just hilarious and from what I've seen of the last few seasons, its still pretty good.

Going back to the previous subject, Roger was the character the family ridiculed during the early seasons until they started with all his costumed personas and leaning into his insanity, so they switched that role over to Klaus, who basically doesn't do a whole lot in most episodes.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


DACK FAYDEN posted:

With the ultimate example being the movie, because it turns out that she was "the one that saved the future", but he only went to the future because the robots that he had built to kill her because he was mad he didn't save the future came back and he just assumed with his huge ego that he was the one that saved the future

do I have to spoiler tag a 20 year old made for tv cartoon movie, cause I'm gonna anyway

Yeah, that bit was pretty bad but at the same time, she keeps *breaking his stuff* and not respecting his privacy and somehow Dexter is the one at fault? I don’t get it.

Is this because of the new tech backlash? Or maybe I am projecting because I was a gifted kid myself and everyone tormented me despite never once acting like an rear end in a top hat or anything.

Kevin DuBrow
Apr 21, 2012

as requested

His sister keeps wrecking his work out of ignorant curiosity and inability to not push large red buttons. She's actually quite protective and loving of him. There's even an episode that shows how in old age she's still the caretaker for a senile Dexter.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Vandar posted:

Family Guy is low-hanging fruit but Meg is probably still the most persistent example of a buttmonkey.

That comic someone made about Bart Simpson and Chris Griffin coming to terms with how loving toxic their families were was an amazing read.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006




Soiled Meat

That's why shows like Bob's Burgers are good. The families actually care about each other and genuinely want to be together.

Also they had an episode where they had to get farts out of new stool covers.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



kupachek posted:

Apparently the 'neo-nazi' thing is solely because of a comment in an episode about the 'heroic' defense against the Allied powers in the war. Otherwise he is just a former East German Olympic Skier.
I've only seen a few bits of the first three seasons when they aired, I didn't even know it was still on the air. but that kind of non-sequitur throwaway line fits with what I remember of Seth MacFarlane's comedy style from the small bits I did see of his shows back then.
Yeah the show had some classic Seth MacFarlane edgelord throwaways about "is Klaus a Nazi or not?" but by the 4th or 5th season it was very much "no, he's definitely not." It almost makes sense when you squint and remember it was like 2005-2008 when those jokes made and MacFarlane was a lot like Goons and early -chan types who thought that performative irony couldn't possibly give extremists a foothold to climb back into public prominence.

American Dad has aged remarkably well overall though. Some real good episodes in there. Way, way better than Family Guy.

Cleretic posted:

I feel like the reason Spongebob managed that dynamic while something like Catdog didn't was for a couple reasons.
A: Squidward isn't strongly attached to the protagonist, either literally or figuratively. With Cat (or perhaps in a less literal example Lisa Simpson), you have to accommodate him into the narrative every single time, while if Squidward doesn't add anything to a story you can just not have Squidward there.

B: More in a general 'why did this one take off' sense, I think it's important to remember when exactly it came around. Spongebob happened in that weird era of children's cartoons when people were just doing weird, sometimes ugly artstyles because nobody else had done them before. A lot of those shows were... well, super ugly. Some made that work for their vibe and energy (Rugrats, Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy), some succeeded in spite of their look (As Told By Ginger), while some... really didn't (Angela Anaconda, Rocket Power). It was a big, weird wild west of people going 'there's no rule saying we can't look like this' and then many of them learning that, hey, maybe there's a reason we shouldn't.

And then suddenly, in the midst of all that, came Spongebob. Using the 'nobody can tell us we can't' to make a really off-the-wall aesthetic work for it, making a whole cast of colorful and marketable characters. It was a huge hit--and was exactly what Nickelodeon needed, because none of their other weirdo-aesthetic cartoons were landing nearly as well. So they pushed the hell out of it, and thankfully, Spongebob could handle the pressure.

Yes this did remind me of how ugly a lot of Nicktoons at the turn of the century were and explains a lot. Thank you.


Push El Burrito posted:

That's why shows like Bob's Burgers are good. The families actually care about each other and genuinely want to be together.

Also they had an episode where they had to get farts out of new stool covers.

I don't find Bob's Burgers funny or amusing but drat, they are wholesome.

Super Waffle
Sep 25, 2007

I'm a hermaphrodite and my parents (40K nerds) named me Slaanesh, THANKS MOM

Megillah Gorilla posted:

That comic someone made about Bart Simpson and Chris Griffin coming to terms with how loving toxic their families were was an amazing read.

https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/comic-if-bart-simpson-and-chris-griffin-went-to-couples-therapy/

It's really great

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Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?





American Dad is great and it hurts me to say that considering how bland The Cleveland Show was and how Family Guy somehow gets worse and worse every season.

Push El Burrito posted:

That's why shows like Bob's Burgers are good. The families actually care about each other and genuinely want to be together.

Also they had an episode where they had to get farts out of new stool covers.

Bob's Burgers is great, for the most part. There's a few episodes here and there where the family is a little too grating towards Bob, but it's a really fantastic show and I enjoy it a bunch.


That...is really loving good stuff.

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