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Yvonmukluk posted:I picked that ending. It was what Chloe asked me to do, and I had already chosen to help her end her life at her own request once before. I helped her end it in the alt-timeline as well. I guess that's part of why I couldn't do it a second time. I couldn't let her give in to that hopelessness again. Especially because it was my fault, once again, that she was in that position. esperterra posted:e: in all honesty I like both endings, I just prefer Bae over Bay for hopeless romantic reasons as well as being in the camp that since the time powers are what seem to have caused the storm, max has to just stop using them altogether rather than use them again to stop it. I was leaning in the same direction WRT time powers. I had spent the whole game rewinding, trying to make it better, and instead just loving things up worse. I didn't think that just doing that again would make everything OK this time. The game seemed to be saying that you just have to live with your mistakes sometimes. I didn't get the vibe that Chloe was gonna get Final Destination'd. The deer and birds in the Bae ending seemed to hint that whatever imbalance was going on and killing the animals had been restored. General Dog posted:It's a much more satisfying ending, not necessarily because it's more fitting decision, but because the devs seem to have put a lot more effort into it, whereas the save Chole ending just feels kind of half-cooked and we don't really see any consequence of it. I found a quote from Michael Koch, one of the devs, that summed up my feelings on the ending pretty well. "The ending where Chloe lives does not feel ambiguous to me. You sacrifice everyone for Chloe, they leave together, saying they will be together. I don't know, maybe that was a mistake but to me it was clear enough, and beautiful. This kind of choice and sacrifice you do it for love, I didn't feel it was necessary to show more as the message and feeling felt powerful enough. And their smiling in the car felt enough to me to induce what will happen next. Sorry if this wasn't showed enough though. I also thought that with all the destruction and death it would not have been the right moment for a kiss. This will happen after the ending, the next days, to me this is where it is leading for sure. And this is also the point, their relation is so strong and the player connected to Chloe if he did this choice, so I didn't think anything more had to be shown, because the player knew how both characters felt. And to be honest we thought a lot about more variations in the car ending, but the production reality and budget also kicked in, so we tried our best to make it work having in mind what I told you. But for sure this ending is only the beginning for Max and Chloe, like in a good book what happens next is also in your own imagination  "
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Oct 6, 2017 18:38
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I thought it was interesting that alt-timeline Chloe's request and the end choice are effectively the same. In both cases Chloe asks you to euthanize her with morphine or time magic respectively, and you have to either accept her request or decide that you know what's best for her. But anecdotally, I would wager that many people, even most people probably were split on these choices.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:43
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I guess my biggest question about the "Save Chloe" ending is whether everyone in town (that matters) is dead, or if it's just like a normal weather disaster where a few people die and everyone else is left rebuilding. I mean obviously a few redshirts have died, but if everyone in the school and- probably more importantly- Chloe's mom are dead, I have a hard time seeing Max or especially Chloe being okay with that decision and moving on. I feel like Chloe would just keep begging Max to rewind (especially if she knows she's already living at the expense of her dad's life). For her to be able to say, "well gently caress everyone, it was Max's call" and move on seems contrary to her character arc.
General Dog fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 18:47
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I do feel like the game makes the storm feel more symbolic and karmic than My Own Private 9/11, I felt like people certainly died but that more importantly the storm had come to destroy the architecture of the Bay, literally and figuratively - it was coming for the corruption of Nathan's family, the decadence of the vortex club, the general nastiness of the town. It's a game about growing up in a lovely place and making the best of those circumstances. In that way you could see the ending as either accepting that your lovely life made you a better person (Bay ending) or believing you were totes a hella awesome person all along and if anything the town was holding you back, a theme that isn't specific to the experience of being a gay teenager but is obviously similar to it, or to being any kind of "weirdo" really. Which is probably why the game has a really broad appeal, I think.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:59
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It sort of asks the question "if homosexuality really IS the end of western civilization, is it still worth it?" Only you can decide.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:05
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General Dog posted:I guess my biggest question about the "Save Chloe" ending is whether everyone in town (that matters) is dead, or if it's just like a normal weather disaster where a few people die and everyone else is left rebuilding. I mean obviously a few redshirts have died, but if everyone in the school and- probably more importantly- Chloe's mom are dead, I have a hard time seeing Max or especially Chloe being okay with that decision and moving on. I feel like Chloe would just keep begging Max to rewind (especially if she knows she's already living at the expense of her dad's life). For her to be able to say, "well gently caress everyone, it was Max's call" and move on seems contrary to her character arc. Yeah, I agree with this and it's why I didn't find saving Chloe satisfying, even though I really like the character. I mean, I mostly played Max as kind and good-hearted and I also got the impression that Chloe, beneath all her bluster, was a vulnerable and caring person, so it really would've felt off for them to just accept that a bunch of people had died because of a decision they made and to move on into lesbo-wonderland without a care in the world. Like, yeah, a couple of lovely Prescotts probably bit the dust, but you do meet many cool people along the way! I don't know, maybe it all makes sense if you've played Max as a more callous, calculating character.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:10
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Much as I was tempted to take the Bae ending for how rare happy LGBT relationships are in fiction, to me it felt like the selfish choice. Even if the town was lovely to Max, saving the town felt like choosing to be the bigger [wo]man, not because of the town but in spite of it even as no one will ever know but Max.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:22
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Cythereal posted:Much as I was tempted to take the Bae ending for how rare happy LGBT relationships are in fiction, to me it felt like the selfish choice. Even if the town was lovely to Max, saving the town felt like choosing to be the bigger [wo]man, not because of the town but in spite of it even as no one will ever know but Max. Yeah, and it really meshes with the more surreal scenes leading up to it where the game really questions Max's motives in how she's used her powers- is she doing these things because she really cares about the people, or is it because she gets off on their gratefulness? Basically having the opportunity to save them but erase everyone's memory of her body of work in the week leading up to it is the ultimate test of that.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:28
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General Dog posted:It sort of asks the question "if homosexuality really IS the end of western civilization, is it still worth it?" Only you can decide. Unironically, it kinda does. Which is why it's great.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:29
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exquisite tea posted:I thought it was interesting that alt-timeline Chloe's request and the end choice are effectively the same. In both cases Chloe asks you to euthanize her with morphine or time magic respectively, and you have to either accept her request or decide that you know what's best for her. But anecdotally, I would wager that many people, even most people probably were split on these choices. She even has the same (not quite) last words to Max both times. "Don't forget about me."
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Oct 6, 2017 19:35
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precision posted:I do feel like the game makes the storm feel more symbolic and karmic than My Own Private 9/11, I felt like people certainly died but that more importantly the storm had come to destroy the architecture of the Bay, literally and figuratively - it was coming for the corruption of Nathan's family, the decadence of the vortex club, the general nastiness of the town. It's a game about growing up in a lovely place and making the best of those circumstances. In that way you could see the ending as either accepting that your lovely life made you a better person (Bay ending) or believing you were totes a hella awesome person all along and if anything the town was holding you back, a theme that isn't specific to the experience of being a gay teenager but is obviously similar to it, or to being any kind of "weirdo" really. Which is probably why the game has a really broad appeal, I think. I agree that the storm's purpose is more symbolic than threatening physical danger, but I came to a different conclusion about what the endings meant. Boiled down, the storm is simply consequences writ large. Representative of every action, word, decision, and ripple effect Max makes during the course of the game. Then at the end you get asked the question that was implicit in game's very premise: If you could go back in time and change things, would you? Or are you able to live with your choices and their costs? I took the Bay ending to mean that Max couldn't accept those choices and once more tried to play time-wizard. I think it's interesting that she still has the photo of the butterfly and her powers at the end of the funeral. Who's to say she won't refuse these consequences too and go back again to fix things? I know there's a fan theory that Max has already cycled through the week prior to you starting the game, I could see this ending leading to that. But in the Bae ending, Max destroys the picture and her last chance to go back and change the previous week's events. She's committed herself to only moving forward from here. I see this ending actually showing her growing, learning to live with choices, and rejecting her time powers.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:39
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For me the end choice obviously revolves around how you feel about Chloe up to that point, but it's really more about the kind of story you interpret Life is Strange to be, because there's really two competing storylines going on throughout. In one corner you have the traditional coming-of-age heroic narrative for Maxine Caulfield, a shy and insecure photography student who seeks to find her place in society. The majority of the first three episodes favor this interpretation as Max acquires and learns about her powers, sharing many similarities to even a superhero origin narrative. What is the ultimate power fantasy for an awkward teenage girl? Well, it's probably one where you always know the right thing to say, are the sweetest, most reliable friend, and are super popular with everyone at school. For most of the first three episodes Max largely succeeds at using her powers for good, most critically in repeatedly saving the life of her best friend, and takes bigger and bolder steps toward protecting Chloe from harm. Near the end of Chaos Theory, however (or Out of Time if you failed to save Kate) Max is shown the limitation of her powers, and that's when the second narrative creeps in further. The tone shifts from a "what is my place in the world" kind of buildingsroman to Max taking increasingly desperate and questionable actions toward rescuing the life of one person. The game mocks you again and again for thinking all that poo poo you did earlier could change anything, and how short-sighted your powers have become. It invites Max to sacrifice more and more to save Chloe's life, even when she begs Max to let her die, because she's become so single-minded in her pursuit of this one goal. And the final mockery comes at the very end of the game, where it proposes jumping through a photograph just this one more time will magically fix everything. And... it does, because if you save the Bay then you return Life is Strange back to its original coming-of-age story. Max restores order to society and emerges as a woman forever changed by her experiences. But if you save Chloe, then you agree more with the second, more psychological narrative and agree to set out together in a brave new world. In both cases the lesson is the same: Max cannot control time, nobody can, and we have to live with the consequences even when they're extremely unfair. The difference comes in whether you think it's worth it to keep trying to help, to impose your will upon what you think is best for people, even when they don't want it for themselves. I don't think that's an easy question to answer.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:05
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I see it as being more a choice about who matters more in your eyes: one of the few people who's been truly nice to Max and might be the love of her life, or an entire town admittedly filled to the brim with assholes? Which is worth saving?
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Oct 6, 2017 20:15
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P.S. It's okay to sacrifice the Bay because in my headcanon Kate survived in a well-fortified hospital and David stayed in the bunker after beating up Jefferson. Sorry Warren you probably got blowed up though.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:16
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exquisite tea posted:I go back on forth on the endings but I think both of them are very thematically similar, and it mostly comes down to what kind of story Life is Strange personally was to you. Yeah, true. It works well thematically either way, and whether you romanced Chloe or saw them as soulbound bffs. The series had its slip ups toward the end, but I think it sticks the landing no matter which one you take. Though I do agree the Bae ending feels rushed compared to Bay, and that's kind of lame.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:20
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Also all this talk about the ending is making me realize all the parallels I can find in Utena, and it's helping me to even more understand why LiS resonated with me so well. Goddamn.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:24
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Yeah, I never really assumed that everyone necessarily died in the storm seeing as a few of them weren't there due to various circumstances. On the other hand, if David survived thanks to being in the Bunker then by association that would mean Jefferson probably did too (either way it means he ends up in jail and/or dead in both timelines so it all works out. If you wanted to continue the story with a direct sequel then the Bae ending would be the most logical place to go though. I'm not sure how you'd follow the other ending consider there technically nothing happened and Max is the only one who remembers otherwise (though the theory that the opening scene in the first episode wasn't a dream and Max has actually been stuck in a time loop since before the events of the game is an interesting one). As an aside, things do get a bit darker if you imagine that all the alternate realities Max creates keep going once she leaves them behind. You've got a Max who probably went to prision for helping Chloe commit suicide (if Joyce and/or William didn't end up taking the fall for her that is) or suddenly woke up in her freind's bedroom with no idea how she got there or why Chloe suddenly hates her so much, a Max that went to LA after winning the photo contest only to discover she had nowhere to go back to after a freak tornado wiped out her town, or even a Max that somehow got stuck in time, losing her memories and becoming the homeless woman outside the diner (that one's probably a stretch but it would explain the "1000 Years" comment). Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 20:31
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esperterra posted:Yeah, true. It works well thematically either way, and whether you romanced Chloe or saw them as soulbound bffs. I saw it as a romance, but romances at that age rarely last. I rationalized it as Max taking a step back and realizing that the temptation to save Chloe is being blinded by the passions of the moment. Can you imagine the survivor's guilt?
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Oct 6, 2017 20:33
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The guilt will be palpable either way. It all boils down to whether you see it as a tragic or bittersweet romance/friendship, consequences either way.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:36
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exquisite tea posted:For me the end choice obviously revolves around how you feel about Chloe up to that point, but it's really more about the kind of story you interpret Life is Strange to be, because there's really two competing storylines going on throughout. In one corner you have the traditional coming-of-age heroic narrative for Maxine Caulfield, a shy and insecure photography student who seeks to find her place in society. The majority of the first three episodes favor this interpretation as Max acquires and learns about her powers, sharing many similarities to even a superhero origin narrative. What is the ultimate power fantasy for an awkward teenage girl? Well, it's probably one where you always know the right thing to say, are the sweetest, most reliable friend, and are super popular with everyone at school. For most of the first three episodes Max largely succeeds at using her powers for good, most critically in repeatedly saving the life of her best friend, and takes bigger and bolder steps toward protecting Chloe from harm. Awesome write up. I didn't think to look at it that way. More food for thought. I guess for me I chose my ending because Chloe and Max's relationship was the heart and soul of the story. In my mind one of the biggest motivations driving Max forward was a massive guilt complex over abandoning her best friend when she absolutely needed Max more than ever. I thought it was pretty symbolic that when Max is getting chewed out by her conscience in the dream, that it was Chloe that came to her defense. Chloe is her redemption. If she can save Chloe, maybe she can prove she isn't everything the voices said she was. It made sense to me that she would become obsessive and self-destructive in an effort to make up for it. Add in the fact that she's truly connecting with another person for once, and possibly a budding romance, and I have no problem understanding how Max could make the choice of one over many. Canemacar fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 20:40
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Cythereal posted:I saw it as a romance, but romances at that age rarely last. I rationalized it as Max taking a step back and realizing that the temptation to save Chloe is being blinded by the passions of the moment. Can you imagine the survivor's guilt? Sacrificing the town does clearly take a bit of a toll on Max's psyche though (look at her face towards the start of the ending, she's basically a shell at that point). Not that the other ending is probably much better for her emotionally but at least in the Bae ending Max and Chloe have each other to lean on if nothing else whereas in the other ending I don't think there's anyway Max could tell someone what she was going through without sounding completely insane. Either experience is probably enough to develop some form of PTSD at the very least. Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 20:43
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Larryb posted:Sacrificing the town does clearly take a bit of a toll on Max's psyche though (look at her face towards the start of the ending, she's basically a shell at that point). I'm not just talking about Max's survivor's guilt. The toll it would take on Chloe seeing all those funerals and disasters and know that Max let it happen for her.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:01
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Cythereal posted:I'm not just talking about Max's survivor's guilt. The toll it would take on Chloe seeing all those funerals and disasters and know that Max let it happen for her. Good point. Not to mention the fact that by virtue of returning from the Save William timeline and letting him leave, Max is, in a sense, indirectly responsible for killing Chloe's entire family. It was hardly intentional on her part mind you and there really was no good outcome for the first point either way but still, that can't be an easy thing to live with. Chloe really is all alone at that point, her only company being a girl now nearly as broken as she is. Recovery is possible eventually, but I can see it being a pretty rough road for the both of them. Larryb fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 21:19
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Canemacar posted:Just watched the Bay before Bae ending on youtube. The Bae > Bay meme is cute and fun, but I honestly don't understand you people . 1. Chloe actively argues for Max to go BAY before the choice. 2. Dontnod would never publically say this, I think with the BAY ending being a good five minutes longer certainly suggest their own leaning. 3. If you had to reduce LIS down to a peice of linear fiction BAY is more emotionally resonate. 4. Unearned happy endings are flat and dull. 5. Larry David. Arach fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 21:41
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I chose the Bay ending because I felt it was Chloe's decision and Chloe's story, given that her arc was more prominent. Through Season 1, Chloe continually lashes out at people such as when she gets mad at Max for taking Kate's call. She even gets mad at William and Rachel for leaving her. She realizes this isn't rational, but she's stuck in a rut and repeatedly wishes for the destruction of the town. Eventually she comes around, with one of my favorite scenes being the moment in the hospital where Chloe apologizes for flipping out at Max and acknowledges that other people have their own poo poo to deal with. It's not until she gets the destruction she wished for that she realizes that no matter how much she hates the town, she still cares enough to put their lives before hers. Even in BtS it's mentioned that Chloe needs to learn to put others before herself. But then again, Chloe can be as selfish and lovely as she wants since I know she's gonna hella die for their sins. p.s. David's new v.o. is too smooth and it upsets me greatly.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:49
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The new voices for Joyce, Nathan and to a slightly lesser extent, Victoria are almost dead on though (Chloe too at times, mostly whenever she gets angry). But yeah, Chloe (and David to an extent) are probably the true heroes of Life is Strange. By the end of the game, Chloe has come to the realization that if her life means that her family and everyone else in town has to suffer, then it's not worth living and she's willing to give it all up for both their sake and Max's. At that point, she's realized exactly what kind of a monster she'd helped Max become and giving herself up was her way of trying to save the friend who had gone so far all for her sake. Based on what we've seen in the original game and Before the Storm so far, Rachel kind of did the same thing to Chloe (before and after her death if you believe the theory about the storm being Rachel's revenge) only in her case, Chloe was already kind of broken before they met and Rachel never had the chance to make amends like Chloe did for Max. In fact, it seems like the more Chloe starts becoming whole again the more Max herself seems to start breaking apart as her love for Chloe turns more and more into an obsession. After all, when it comes down to it Max is just a kid in way over her head trying to do the right thing. Her best moment (or the beginning of her eventual downfall depending on how it turns out) is with Kate on the roof. While her powers were able to get her up there, she had to do all the legwork on her own. As a result (unless you decide to reset the game or something) you only get one shot. You ether save her life (which is also one of the few acts that the universe doesn't end up punishing Max for later) or you fail and one of the few truly innocent people in Arcadia Bay goes to an early grave and there's no way to bring her back. Max is a tragic figure but not necessarily a heroic one. In fact, if not for Max having a sense of morals to ground her you could argue that there's little difference between her and Mark Jefferson (they're both photographers who used their talents to get others to do what they want and they're both fixated on the concept of innocence, albeit in different ways). Larryb fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 22:15
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General Dog posted:What's the conceit of the "End of the World Party"? Like, they didn't anticipate it actually being on the eve of an apocalyptic event, so what was the party's gimmick planned to be? It wasn't the end of the school year or the semester. Are you just supposed to party like there's no tomorrow? Well, that depends on where you stand. At some point in development though, it was pretty clear that the Prescott family knew the storm was coming. It's either a whole subplot that was cut for time or other creative reasons. Or another red herring in the deliberate chain of red herrings.
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Oct 7, 2017 00:50
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Milky Moor posted:Well, that depends on where you stand. At some point in development though, it was pretty clear that the Prescott family knew the storm was coming. Unless you just flat out think Dontnod is lying, they've never mentioned this themselves in either interviews or the director's commentary, and said their planned ending for the game remained 100% consistent.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:30
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exquisite tea posted:Unless you just flat out think Dontnod is lying, they've never mentioned this themselves in either interviews or the director's commentary, and said their planned ending for the game remained 100% consistent. There's a letter from Sean talking about it (something along the lines of the town getting a well deserved enema soon or something like that) and the trailer for I think either Episode 4 or 5 has a line from Nathan screaming about it that was cut from the final game. There could have been something there that was just cut for time or other reasons (I'm guessing it was just a red herring though). This makes sense seeing as there were a lot of other things that ended up being cut from the game. Off the top of my head there's William and Rachel showing up during the Nightmare (which would have been Rachel's only voiced line in the game), some promo art of Max wearing a hospital gown, and a third ending where Chloe still gets shot but lives. There's probably some more I'm forgetting. Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 02:40
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Like any game there's stuff that was cut or lines that were subbed in only for the trailer, but to say there was an entire dropped subplot of the game that only appears midway through episode 4 out of 5 is ludicrous, and totally out of sync with what Dontnod themselves have said about the ending. There's just no evidence for the Prescott family red herring to be anything more than what it is, a red herring.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:43
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exquisite tea posted:Unless you just flat out think Dontnod is lying, they've never mentioned this themselves in either interviews or the director's commentary, and said their planned ending for the game remained 100% consistent. I generally think most people involved in creative works like presenting their work in the best light possible. I'm not sure how one can argue that any ending to any work remains 100% consistent from initial conception to the final product (although I'm sure sacrificing Chloe or not was always there). "The storm is coming, I saw it, you're all going to die!" from Nathan, for example.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:45
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I thought this was a great post, so I wanted to go through it bit by bit.Larryb posted:But yeah, Chloe (and David to an extent) are probably the true heroes of Life is Strange. By the end of the game, Chloe has come to the realization that if her life means that her family and everyone else in town has to suffer, then it's not worth living and she's willing to give it all up for both their sake and Max's. At that point, she's realized exactly what kind of a monster she'd helped Max become and giving herself up was her way of trying to save the friend who had gone so far all for her sake. Based on what we've seen in the original game and Before the Storm so far, Rachel kind of did the same thing to Chloe (before and after her death if you believe the theory about the storm being Rachel's revenge) only in her case, Chloe was already kind of broken before they met and Rachel never had the chance to make amends like Chloe did for Max. Honestly, I agree entirely. Chloe is really the main character the game focuses on. Her pain, struggles, flaws, and growth. It's telling that in the alt-world we spend the entire time learning how events shaped her, but spend almost no time examining Max's differences. David also got a great redemption when he came in to save Max like the protector he always wanted to be. The capstone to Chloe's growth came when Max went back to Warren's photo. She went to the school with a single-minded determination to murder Nathan, but seeing Max have her breakdown snapped her out of it. I think that was the moment Chloe realized just how much Max had been going through for the last five days and the toll it was taking. It pushed her to stop focusing on the past and all that baggage she carried about it. Larryb posted:In fact, it seems like the more Chloe starts becoming whole again the more Max herself seems to start breaking apart as her love for Chloe turns more and more into an obsession. After all, when it comes down to it Max is just a kid in way over her head trying to do the right thing. I thought that was a very effective way to tell the story. Over the five days, Max is seeing things and making the kind of choices no one should ever have to make, and no one else can possibly know what she's dealing with. From Chloe's perspective Max is basically a super-hero who gets everything right the first time with seemingly no effort. That's why I feel like the conversation in Warren's photo is the emotional climax of the game. It's where Chloe reaches the peak of her growth and Max reaches the end of her ability to deal with poo poo on her own. Larryb posted:Her best moment (or the beginning of her eventual downfall depending on how it turns out) is with Kate on the roof. While her powers were able to get her up there, she had to do all the legwork on her own. As a result (unless you decide to reset the game or something) you only get one shot. You ether save her life (which is also one of the few acts that the universe doesn't end up punishing Max for later) or you fail and one of the few truly innocent people in Arcadia Bay goes to an early grave and there's no way to bring her back. That was definitely her finest hour, but I'd say the beginning of her downfall is a bit later when she tries to save Chloe's dad. At least, that's what it felt like in my game where I saved Kate. Because right up until that point, everything had been turning out fantastic. It fit right in line with the heroic narrative Exquisite Tea pointed out. So naturally, Max tries to right every wrong she could. Unfortunately, thinking she could go 5 years back and have everything turn out according to plan was sheer hubris. That's when the tone shifts from "I can do anything" to "desperately trying to hold everything together." Larryb posted:Max is a tragic figure but not necessarily a heroic one. In fact, if not for Max having a sense of morals to ground her you could argue that there's little difference between her and Mark Jefferson (they're both photographers who used their talents to get others to do what they want and they're both fixated on the concept of innocence, albeit in different ways). I would say Max is a heroic figure in the classic Greek tragedy fashion. Where her greatest strength is also what destroys her. She sets out seeking to do only good, but eventually over-reaches and becomes consumed by her flaws. Can you explain a bit more about the similarities between Max and Jefferson? I know there's some parallels there, but I'm not sure if it can be summed up as a fixation on innocence.
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Oct 7, 2017 03:09
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Max's most heroic act comes in the first third of episode five, after she escapes the Dark Room for the first time. She's tempted by getting everything she wants as an artist, the bad guys are in jail, everybody loves her and she's the most popular girl at Blackwell. It's almost absurd how over the top it is. But Max decides that none of that is worth it if she can't save Chloe, and literally rips her dreams apart to go back into hell and rescue her. This is such a common occurrence in the heroic monomyth that there's even a term for it - Refusal of the Gift - and is the highpoint of Max's arc.
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Oct 7, 2017 03:20
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Canemacar posted:Can you explain a bit more about the similarities between Max and Jefferson? I know there's some parallels there, but I'm not sure if it can be summed up as a fixation on innocence. As I said, they both manipulate others into doing what they want/telling them what they want to hear using their talents (Max with her powers, Jefferson with his words and minor celebrity status). They also both represent aspects of Holden Caulfield from The Catcher in the Rye, specifically the focus on preserving innocence (Jefferson through his photography, Max through trying to literally make problems go away via the knowledge gained through using her powers). There's an interesting write-up concerning that last point (and other parts of the game) that you can find here. It's not a perfect connection I'll admit but I'd imagine without a sense of moral fiber guiding her I could see Max eventually going down a similar path to Jefferson (they're two sides of the same coin in a sense, only Max actually gives a drat about other people and any deaths she causes along the way are purely accidental). It wouldn't take all that much either (we see hints in the William Lives timeline that the Max of that reality is kind of a lovely person in some respects), not to mention the fact that the deeper she gets, the more willing she is to start compromising those morals, to the point that by the end she basically tells Chloe "gently caress the world, you're all that matters to me now". The Max Caulfield we knew from the start of the game was practically dead at that point, consumed by her obsession the same way Jefferson had been by his. Larryb fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 03:45
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Larryb posted:As I said they both manipulate others into doing what they want/telling them what they want to hear using their talents (Max with her powers, Jefferson with his words and minor celebrity status). They also both represent aspects of Holden Caulfield from The Catcher in the Rye, specifically the focus on preserving innocence (Jefferson through his photography, Max through trying to literally make problems go away via the knowledge gained through using her powers). There's an interesting write-up concerning that last point (and other parts of the game) that you can find here. I really am going to have to read that book one day. I see what you mean though. Jefferson is obsessed with capturing that last moment of innocence as Max wards off that coming loss of innocence by trying to manipulate her powers to 1: literally turning back the clock and 2: create a perfect outcome for every situation. Max's manipulation of others kind of snuck up on me when I played. I genuinely wanted to get people to open up, so I didn't give a second thought to how hosed up it was to play them like you do. It wasn't until the nightmare that I thought , "that's actually a really lovely thing to do to people." Having that kind of power does alienate you from the people you use it on. At one point, when I was trying to get to the diner to get Warren's picture, but was getting sidetracked rescuing people, I caught myself thinking "none of this matters. It's just going to go away once I get the picture." I saw in the last thread people thought this was bad pacing, but I think it was a deliberate choice to get players to have that thought.
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Oct 7, 2017 04:19
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Hey does anyone remember that little town in Oregon that got blown away around this time four years ago? Some freak weather events and then a bigass tornado that took out the whole city?
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Oct 7, 2017 12:14
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On that point, (happy Life Is Strange Day (also my birthday which is why I remember details like that; I'm not completely insane)) why is this 2015 game set in 2013? That's way too soon to be a nostalgic throwback to the creator's youth, but it's still a deliberate choice to set the game in the past. My pet theory is that it was done entirely so they could reference marijuana and gay marriage as still being illegal in Oregon, which they no longer were circa 2014.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:13
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So, I just played through BTS today. Wanted to put some thoughts out there. Gonna throw on the spoiler tags in case someone here hasn't been through it yet like I did. So, first thing I did was to pop open the journal. Ouch. I got a sense of how much it hurt Chloe for Max to pull a fade, but seeing it from her perspective really twists the knife. It's really sad and sweet that she keeps writing to journal-Max through the game. I totally saw what they did with that reference to Pris. Subtle and funny as hell. I wonder if they're going to make comparisons to the Rachel in Blade Runner? A real person who turns out to be fake? Ominous. It was nice to see Frank again. For a low-life drug dealer pushing dangerous poo poo to underage kids, he's not so bad. Even came to the defense of Rachael and Chloe. I wonder if he's gonna bust up the dog fights in the next couple episodes. Tried to be nice to Joyce. She's dealing with the loss of William too and trying to hold it together for the sake of Chloe. She's an unsung hero in this game. David is as tone deaf as always. I know he means well, but he's going about it all wrong. Still gave him the fist bump because I'm not heartless. What's going on with Eliot is interesting. The situation seems different than with Warren in that he and Chloe have already hooked up, but Eliot seems to be trying to read her on an emotional level past just infatuation. I loved the little comparison after the confrontation with Wells. Chloe gets in his face and muses that a long time ago he would have scared the hell out of her. Meanwhile in Max's first confrontation she's clearly terrified and never sure she made the right choice. Probably a common sentiment, but the D&D game was a highlight. Steph and Mikey are cool in my book. Totally had mixed feelings about coming to Nathan's defense. Ended up doing to it for Samantha's sake. Consoled myself in knowing Warren will go ape on him later. Just like when Chloe asked Max to sneak into the boy's or girl's locker room, Rachael's question about love was dripping with implication. The junkyard fight was horrible to watch. So was Chloe's breakdown afterwards. I felt so bad for her and what she was going through. Her Dad's car was the cherry on a poo poo sundae. Not sure what's going on with Rachael. Was she using some kind of power? Or was that artistic license? Either way that scene and the montage was pretty unsettling. It's probably too early to put all the pieces together, but I'm not sure I like Rachael. I definitely don't trust her. That plaque talking about how the Raven is a trickster who can lead to change, but shouldn't be trusted was a major red flag. She is way too good at reading and manipulating people.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:34
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I think your feelings on Rachel are definitely accurate, and the next two episodes are going to play up the "does she really like me or is she just using me" kind of uncertainty that we all loved from our own adolescence. FWIW even before BtS was ever a thing I always viewed Chloe and Rachel's relationship as more romantic in nature than Chloe and Max, who I just saw as a really close friendship somewhat intensified by dramatic circumstances.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:51
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| # ? Nov 16, 2025 03:35 |
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Rachel and Chloe's relationship was certainly more inherently romantic. Max and Chloe can go either way, though I feel Chloe's emotions were always more than platonic. How Max feels is up to the player.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:55
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