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I think they mainly just wanted to avoid making one ending more canon than the other, which I can understand. Also, while there are a few ways you could continue from Sacrifice the Bay I'm not sure how you'd best follow up on Sacrifice Chloe since there the week technically never happened and only Max is left knowing the full truth. For some weird reason I could see a version of the most recent Last of Us 2 trailer only with Max in place of Ellie, Through the Valley does sort of fit with this series too after all ("I can't walk the path of the right, because I'm wrong"). Though considering how BtS opens I was almost half-expecting a "Kept you waiting, huh?" when Chloe took her hood off so maybe I'm just weird like that. It's kind of sad really, in that reality the town will remember Chloe as a troubled teenager and not much else, with only Max realizing how much of a hero she truly was but can't tell anyone the truth without sounding like a crazy person. In either ending, I could easily see Max being left with some form of PTSD from all of this. Larryb fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 12:32
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Eshettar posted:I doubt time travel will play a role as the power was so specific to Max's character. I have literally no idea what Season Two of Life Is Strange will even be which is both kinda scary and exciting at the same time. As improbable as it seems that Dontnod could make lightning strike twice with a completely different cast and setting, I believe in their abilities and would actually prefer it if they got as far away from Arcadia Bay as possible. New powers, middle aged or elderly cast, different time period or country, anything goes. Literally my only expectations for LiS 2 are the episodic adventure format, character-based melodrama with a twist of the supernatural, and gay as heck.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:51
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Season 2 of LiS strikes me that it'll be like the original idea for Heroes past Season 1. Entirely different cast with different abilities in a different place or time with the connection being thematics, motifs, phenomena and little easter eggs.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:56
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It's the same except with dimensional hopping and gay dudes instead
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Oct 23, 2017 12:58
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Larryb posted:If you're going chronologically I believe the DLC is supposed to take place before everything else does. Yeah, but I'm getting the impression it's a meta way for the player to say goodbye to Chloe and Max just as much as for them to say farewell to each other. Probably going to be packed with foreshadowing and references. As far as continuing the series, I liked the suggestion that another prequel could focus on Max's time in Seattle. For one of the main characters, we know less about her than several side NPCs. The only thing I think we know about her in that time is that she hung out at the Troll with two friends once. And we could use a better look at why she ghosted. My money is on a combination of her having no idea how to deal with Chloe's trama, being overwhelmed by her new life, and a vicious cycle of feeling like a terrible friend so she stays away.
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Oct 23, 2017 12:59
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Canemacar posted:Yeah, but I'm getting the impression it's a meta way for the player to say goodbye to Chloe and Max just as much as for them to say farewell to each other. Probably going to be packed with foreshadowing and references. Yeah, a BtS-style prequel focused on Max's side of things could be an interesting idea. Plus it'd be a chance for her to actually star in a game as LiS was still mostly Chloe's show for a majority of the time. Only question is, since this is pre-Rewind power what would the gimmick be and is Max an interesting enough character to carry a game on her own? Larryb fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 13:12
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Tired Moritz posted:It's the same except with dimensional hopping and gay dudes instead I am prepared to enter the non-euclidian hypergay dimension.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:18
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Larryb posted:Yeah, a BtS-style prequel focused on Max's side of things could be an interesting idea. Plus it'd be a chance for her to actually star in a game as LiS was still mostly Chloe's show for a majority of the time. Instead of backtalk, Max's special ability is Clam Up. In dialogue challenges, the player can dynamically become overwhelmed by social anxiety and trip over her words, mumble unintelligibly, and awkwardly shuffle away! To be honest, Max is the kind of character that works better in a supporting role for others. Most of her conflict is internal, but unless you want to make the entire game like the Nightmare sequence, it can be hard to build a video game around that. A theoretical game set in Seattle would probably have to focus on the supporting cast like her parents, the two friends she went to the troll with, and I guess her online MMO buddies.
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Oct 23, 2017 14:33
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You know what's fun? Imagining Life Is Strange from the perspective of Chloe. Max must have looked like a superhero to her as she got them out of every situation with seemingly no trouble at all. Intellectually, Chloe knows that Max can reverse time but she never sees what the player does AKA all of Max's unsuccessful attempts to resolve things before finding the correct solution. From her point of view, Max is a goddess who can taken on anything and come out triumphant every time. Eshettar fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 15:18
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True, maybe a continuation of BtS starring Rachel might work a little better in that regard? Though their story is more or less complete now, Dontnod really struck gold with these characters and I'm worried that doing a sequel without them might not end up having the same impact. I can almost guarantee that when the first trailer drops you'll get some confused fans asking "Where's Max/Chloe/etc?", there's already a few out there that seem to think Before the Storm IS Life is Strange 2 after all. Here's hoping that the new cast is at least decent if not just as good as the originals. Eshettar posted:You know what's fun? Which is probably why when she actually discovers the sheer hell Max went through all in the name of trying to protect her it's enough of a shock to finally snap Chloe out of the funk she's been in for the last 5 years and lead her to make her final decision at the end. She was trying to save Max from becoming just like her. Larryb fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 15:19
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Larryb posted:Which is probably why when she actually discovers the sheer hell Max went through all in the name of trying to protect her it's enough of a shock to finally snap Chloe out of the funk she's been in for the last 5 years and lead her to make her final decision at the end. She was trying to save Max from becoming just like her. I think that scene is still my favorite in the entire series. It's where Chloe's growth and Max's destruction intersect and the dynamic between them flips. Max become consumed by her demons in the Nightmare, while Chloe steps up to be the supportive one trying to get Max to safety.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:56
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Eshettar posted:Imagining Life Is Strange from the perspective of Chloe. Max must have looked like a superhero to her as she got them out of every situation with seemingly no trouble at all. Intellectually, Chloe knows that Max can reverse time but she never sees what the player does AKA all of Max's unsuccessful attempts to resolve things before finding the correct solution. From her point of view, Max is a goddess who can taken on anything and come out triumphant every time. Does Chloe yell at Max if she stops at killing Frank in Episode 4? That's gotta be enormously hosed up to Chloe in her current emotional state knowing Max would probably have the power to reverse it. It would also be weird to have a time traveling friend as from your own consciousness Max would probably appear to be teleporting everywhere and capable of perfect foresight.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:57
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I'm still kind of surprised that killing Frank wasn't a "Game Over" situation myself (that is, when the screen turns black & white and you're forced to Rewind). Seeing a version of Life is Strange entirely from Chloe's perspective would be kind of weird. As mentioned, until she learns the truth at the end Max is, in her eyes, a superhero who can expertly tell the future, teleport at will and get them out of trouble with ease. I also wonder if the raven continued to visit her even during that time period (though in her position I'd probably have just told the stupid bird to go gently caress itself after a while) and where she went after convincing Max to travel through the butterfly photo (there's evidence that the timelines still keep going even after Max leaves them behind, which would mean there's a lot of ones where she wound up getting herself killed or arrested as a result). The former point might make for an interesting conversation itself actually ("I keep having this weird reoccurring dream about a raven wearing my dad's face and telling me cryptic poo poo, fire is usually involved"). Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 17:21
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The Kill Frank/Pompidou stuff, while an incredibly cool showing of their tech, story writing, and choice flowcharts, kind of breaks for me because there is really no reasonable reason mechanically or narrative wise to let Chloe kill frank and leave it that way.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:17
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IIRC a surprising fraction of people still chose to kill Frank, even though it's perhaps the most ghoulish choice you can make in the game. Maybe they didn't know you could rewind to get a better scenario, maybe they figured it was a convenient way to erase Chloe's $5,000 debt, who knows. e: 6% of all players killed Frank. That's about as many people who let Pompidou get hurt. Only 72% of players let everyone get out unharmed. exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 18:24
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exquisite tea posted:IIRC a surprising fraction of people still chose to kill Frank, even though it's perhaps the most ghoulish choice you can make in the game. Maybe they didn't know you could rewind to get a better scenario, maybe they figured it was a convenient way to erase Chloe's $5,000 debt, who knows. How many of those 6% are people going through a game multiple times to see all the weird poo poo?
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Oct 23, 2017 18:33
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I'm unsure how it works for LiS but in BtS only the analytics from your first savefile contribute to the global statistics.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:35
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My first time going through the Frank confrontation, I messed things up and got both of them killed. Dontnod did a great job of conveying a sense of everything spiraling out of control when things went south. I rewound of course, but it did a lot for me to reinforce that Max was barely able to hold things together towards the end.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:44
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I let Pompidou get hurt because I was under the impression it was the only choice I had for that moment, and also gently caress dogs him being cute in BtS is like, destroying me
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Oct 23, 2017 20:00
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Larryb posted:I also wonder if the raven continued to visit her even during that time period (though in her position I'd probably have just told the stupid bird to go gently caress itself after a while) and where she went after convincing Max to travel through the butterfly photo (there's evidence that the timelines still keep going even after Max leaves them behind, which would mean there's a lot of ones where she wound up getting herself killed or arrested as a result). Do you think there's a timeline where Max disappears into the butterfly photo, Arcadia Bay is still destroyed and Chloe is left all alone? If all the timelines remain valid in their own right even when Max skips out on them, it should be possible. That would be the bleakest thing ever...Chloe would survive but she'd lose everyone. Even her superhero chum who presumably wouldn't be coming back this time. Eshettar fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 20:31
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Eshettar posted:Do you think there's a timeline where Max disappears into the butterfly photo, Arcadia Bay is still destroyed and Chloe is left all alone? If all the timelines remain valid in their own right even when Max skips out on them, it should be possible. That would be the bleakest thing ever...Chloe would survive but she'd lose everyone. Even her superhero chum who presumably wouldn't be coming back this time. It's possible though at that point Chloe would probably just straight up kill herself.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:52
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Larryb posted:It's possible though at that point Chloe would probably just straight up kill herself. Yeah, there's no way she doesn't just take a swan dive off the cliff in that scenario. Of course, she would probably then get reverse-Final Destination'd and be miraculously saved by fate. Because the universe hates Chloe Price.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:07
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The Frank confrontation is up there with the brawl between Photo Man and Security Step-Dad for driving home Max's ability usage. You need to keep going back until you get it right.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:14
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I have to say that Frank is one of the most inconsistent characters in both games, in fact his appearances in BtS only add to it. Is he a cool hippie drug dealer or a burned out rear end in a top hat? Why not both!
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Oct 23, 2017 22:15
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Eshettar posted:Do you think there's a timeline where Max disappears into the butterfly photo, Arcadia Bay is still destroyed and Chloe is left all alone? If all the timelines remain valid in their own right even when Max skips out on them, it should be possible. That would be the bleakest thing ever...Chloe would survive but she'd lose everyone. Even her superhero chum who presumably wouldn't be coming back this time. Keep in mind there's also an alternate universe where Max is quickly found out and arrested for euthanizing her best friend from childhood, having no recollection of how she got there or why she would have killed her. Good luck holding up that argument in court! Some of the alt-timelines are pretty dark when you start thinking about them for awhile.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:35
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You just know Victoria volunteers as a witness for the prosecution.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:46
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exquisite tea posted:Keep in mind there's also an alternate universe where Max is quickly found out and arrested for euthanizing her best friend from childhood, having no recollection of how she got there or why she would have killed her. Good luck holding up that argument in court! Plus a few Max's that got crushed to death by falling debris, were killed by Jefferson (or possibly Frank), let Chloe get run over by a train and were arrested for breaking into the school and/or blowing open the door to the principal's office with a home-made bomb. If you think about all the ones she left behind, the primary Max (assuming the vision from the beginning actually was a dream and the Max we play as is in fact the original) got off pretty easy by comparison. Nameless Pete posted:You just know Victoria volunteers as a witness for the prosecution. Not likely in this case, remember that in the William Lives timeline Max and Victoria were pretty much best friends. Though she probably would have still lost her membership in the Vortex Club at the very least (if she wasn't sentenced to life in prison or executed for murder that is). Yeah, I think that version of Max probably wound up getting screwed over worse than any other in the grand scheme of things. Larryb fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 22:53
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precision posted:I have to say that Frank is one of the most inconsistent characters in both games, in fact his appearances in BtS only add to it. Is he a cool hippie drug dealer or a burned out rear end in a top hat? Why not both! Doesn't Frank himself say that no one is just one thing?
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Oct 23, 2017 23:40
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There's also the time Max electrocutes a guy to death because she needed to get through a building. Also you can totally bring this back for the LiS sidescroller: https://i.imgur.com/FAewkMG.gifv
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Oct 23, 2017 23:44
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skooma512 posted:Plus a spirit like that may not even perceive time linearly. Chloe had that week as far as it's concerned even if she is sacrificed. Max: Then why do you exist here?
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Oct 24, 2017 00:32
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Max actually racks up a pretty sizeable body count in the first game if you think about it (sometimes even the same person more than once), which is kind of impressive considering there are no actual combat elements. Though to be fair, she's only directly responsible for the deaths of two or three people at most (Chloe in the alternate timeline and the aforementioned guy she accidentally electrocutes during the storm). Every other time either someone else kills someone due to actions that resulted from something Max said (Frank, Jefferson), or they wind up dying through deliberate inaction on Max's part (William, Chloe/most of Arcadia Bay depending on your ending choice). There's a few grey areas as well (Alyssa falls and dies if you talk to her during the storm without checking the nearby plank beforehand and Kate jumps off the roof if you don't manage to talk her down) but I'm not sure if you can really count them as part of the first category or not. Larryb fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 00:52
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Larryb posted:Max actually racks up a pretty sizeable body count in this game if you think about it (sometimes even the same person more than once), which is kind of impressive considering there are no actual combat elements. You know, it occurred to me today that we don't really know who died in the Bae ending storm. People assume Joyce, Warren, and frank all died because of the diner explosion, but that only happened in the timeline where Max went to the party and spent an unknown amount of time in the Dark Room. In the final timeline, they never even go into the party and leave before the storm even kicks up. We don't get to see what happens between Warren's photo and the lighthouse since Max was in a fugue, but she did warn Chloe about the storm. I don't think it's a stretch that Chloe probably sent a bunch of warning texts and calls out to people she knew.
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Oct 24, 2017 01:08
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Canemacar posted:You know, it occurred to me today that we don't really know who died in the Bae ending storm. People assume Joyce, Warren, and frank all died because of the diner explosion, but that only happened in the timeline where Max went to the party and spent an unknown amount of time in the Dark Room. In the final timeline, they never even go into the party and leave before the storm even kicks up. We don't get to see what happens between Warren's photo and the lighthouse since Max was in a fugue, but she did warn Chloe about the storm. I don't think it's a stretch that Chloe probably sent a bunch of warning texts and calls out to people she knew. True, but even if she didn't it's possible at least Kate and David survived by virtue of being in the hospital/bunker at the time of the storm (which, unless he'd been taken away by the police ahead of time, unfortunately means Jefferson probably survived as well).
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Oct 24, 2017 01:12
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skooma512 posted:Plus a spirit like that may not even perceive time linearly. Chloe had that week as far as it's concerned even if she is sacrificed. The Chloe is belligerent. Adversarial. Backtalk-y. She wishes to end the game.
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Oct 24, 2017 01:24
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Larryb posted:True, but even if she didn't it's possible at least Kate and David survived by virtue of being in the hospital/bunker at the time of the storm (which, unless he'd been taken away by the police ahead of time, unfortunately means Jefferson probably survived as well). I'm not really sure how things would have played out with David and the Dark Room in the final timeline. We know he showed up due to finding Chloe and Max's evidence(side note: if he returned to the Price residence after getting kicked out, he was probably doing a Mea Culpa for Joyce). What we don't know is if Victoria was still alive by then(she got killed early because Max was the better subject, so possibly), and if David was able to overcome Jefferson without Max's help. Edit: Posting this as a corollary to my speculation about Chloe's visions, and because it made me laugh. 
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Oct 24, 2017 01:40
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Also, weirdly enough if you don't warn Victoria about the Dark Room/she doesn't believe you then we never actually see her again in for the rest of the game once we leave the party (not counting the part where Max travels all the way back to the beginning via photo and a few brief sections of the Nightmare that is), so it's unclear exactly what ended up happening to her as a result.
Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 01:57
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Larryb posted:Also, weirdly enough if you don't warn Victoria about the Dark Room/she doesn't believe you then we never actually see her again in the present timeline once we leave the party (not counting the part where Max travels all the way back to the beginning via photo and a few brief sections of the Nightmare), so it's unclear exactly what ended up happening to her as a result. I thought it was sad, but thematically relevant that if you honestly try your best to connect with and befriend Victoria, you end up indirectly causing her to be kidnapped and murdered. Poor Max. Even when she tries for the best, she causes harm. Stuff like that is why I interpret the Nightmare as not so much reality crumbling as her own guilt and self-doubt overcoming her.
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Oct 24, 2017 02:52
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Canemacar posted:I thought it was sad, but thematically relevant that if you honestly try your best to connect with and befriend Victoria, you end up indirectly causing her to be kidnapped and murdered. Poor Max. Even when she tries for the best, she causes harm. Stuff like that is why I interpret the Nightmare as not so much reality crumbling as her own guilt and self-doubt overcoming her. Come to think of it, I believe the only major time in the game where she manages to help someone without being punished for it later is with Kate on the roof. She does get a few minor victories though, like patching things up between Dana & Juliet and saving Alyssa from a seemingly endless onslaught of minor inconveniences. Larryb fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 03:36
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Larryb posted:Come to think of it, I believe the only major time in the game where she manages to help someone without being punished for it later is with Kate on the roof. That's true. And I think it was ExquisiteTea who pointed out that saving Kate was the high water mark for Max's time shenanigans. After that the story takes a turn where it becomes less about what Max can do with her powers to fix everything and more about what Max can do to limit the damage. I guess that's part of why I personally identified with Max so much. I've never been interested in "Chosen One" characters who are flawless or destined to succeed. I prefer stories about people who screw up and try to make things right regardless. One of the first games I got really invested in was FFVII, and I always appreciated how it turned out that Cloud wasn't actually the badass ex-SOLDIER everyone thought he was. That was Zack. Cloud was just a grunt who got swept up in events bigger than him and clung to a lie at his lowest point as a means of surviving. Just a screw up trying their best in a bad situation.
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Oct 24, 2017 03:46
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Yeah, I kind of like how Max isn't really a "hero" in the traditional sense but rather just a kid with a good heart that happens to be in way over her head and is trying to make the best of a bad situation (after all, it's not her fault the universe randomly gave her time powers and then decided to punish her for daring to use them). Even though she screws up majorly and by the end is struggling just to hold herself together it's still probably better that the powers wound up in Max's hands rather than someone who didn't have those moral qualms and just wanted to get ahead in life. For example, late in the game Max is presented with a reality where she got everything she ever dreamed of, and all it would cost would be to let the tornado wipe out Chloe and the town. Someone like Jefferson would have probably let them all rot so he could bask in the glory but Max refuses to make that sacrifice, instead choosing to destroy her own dreams and plunge straight back into Hell in hopes of having the chance to make things right. Not everything goes to plan of course but it was still a pretty noble thing to do. Even in her darkest hour, even when she flat out told Chloe "gently caress the world, you're all that matters to me now", Max still somehow never fully lost her soul (though the Nightmare didn't help, she is ultimately her own worst enemy after all), and that's what makes her a compelling character in my mind. Chloe is still the true hero of the game of course and is the one who manages (or tries her best anyway) to pull Max out of the darkness like she'd done for her (and let's be honest, by the end of the game Max is probably the one who needed saving the most) but Max deserves some credit at least. Larryb fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 03:55
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