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In other news I found this interview with Ashly Burch and Before the Storm's co-game director Chris Floyd where they talk a little more about Farewell (no new information though) and BtS in general (apologies if this has been posted before): http://www.gamesradar.com/the-minds...-be-more-aggro/ Also, E3 is only 6 days away. Which means we might be getting some concrete information on LiS 2 before long. Larryb fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 20:22
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Weird thought, but could Life is Strange work as a world (or at least a character cameo or two) in a Kingdom Hearts game? You'd probably have to tone a few things down of course but themes of loss and corruption do play a fairly major role in this series after all. Only question is how you'd translate a choice-based adventure game into an action RPG. As far as potential party members go I could see Max as a support role utilizing mostly time-related spells like Slow and Stop while Chloe would have a more Berserker style of fighting. Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 17:55
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Hang on a second. Just thinking about LiS ending. We know that all universes exist simultaneously and we simply control an invasive prime Max consciousness. The fact that the choice between Bae and Bay exists means that both universes and their consequences exist. Therefore regardless of choice those lives are lost in a universe somewhere. We literally only make the choice of which universe the prime Max consciousness resides in. The only moral choice can be the best possible result for that prime Max consciousness and that's obviously Bae.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:36
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Yeah, when Max jumps through a photo she is effectively possessing her own body, overriding the consciousness of the Max from the new timeline she created. So wouldn't that mean that the same could be said about her own body in the main reality? She did somehow manage to reconcile with Chloe while her mind was in the Willam Lives timeline and when she wakes up at the lighthouse towards the end Chloe says something to the effect of "I see the real Max is back". Which would mean the two timelines carry on independently from each other and she's technically not actually changing history at all, just creating more alternate universes. In other words, all Max going back through the butterfly photo at the end would do is just create a new timeline, leaving another Max back at the lighthouse to watch the storm destroy her town. By that logic, both endings are technically canon and happen at the same time in different realities. In retrospect it's probably for the best that we're switching gears in Season 2 as cleaning up after the first game seems like it'd be pretty complicated. Also Max and Chloe's tale is more or less complete now (with Farewell basically showing us how it all began), let someone else suffer for a change. Larryb fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 16:59
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I always thought of it like this: the alternate timelines are created when Max ditches the one she's in by rewinding time. So no, the two endings are mutually exclusive because you pick one of them and then Max never rewinds from it, meaning that the one you abstained from quite simply never happens and thus doesn't become a loose thread in the fabric of time. The conclusion of Life Is Strange isn't a question of which universe you're choosing to live in. It's about which universe gets to exist at the expense of the other. If you choose to save the Bay, every single of the alternate timelines ceases to be because there never was any time travel in the first place.
Eshettar fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 21:48
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Eshettar posted:I always thought of it like this: the alternate timelines are created when Max ditches the one she's in by rewinding time. So no, the two endings are mutually exclusive because you pick one of them and then Max never rewinds from it, meaning that the one you abstained from quite simply never happens and thus doesn't become a loose thread in the fabric of time. The conclusion of Life Is Strange isn't a question of which universe you're choosing to live in. It's about which universe gets to exist at the expense of the other. If you choose to save the Bay, every single of the alternate timelines ceases to be because there never was any time travel in the first place. Nah, we know that time continues travelling forward while Max is jumping through alternate realities. A different consciousness, or an autopilot helps Chloe move their childhood painting board upstairs and start doing some detective work while 'the camera' follows Max into the William lives timeline, so multiple universes exist independent of each other. So choosing to sacrifice Chloe would be the same as jumping into the last photo William takes. The sacrifice Bay universe still continues to exist even if you never rewind the option. Though I suppose that means that Sacrifice Chloe doesn't have to exist, the sacrifice Bay option will exist regardless. So in conclusion, the option with least loss of life across all universes is sacrifice Bay. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 00:07
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A weird thing about that though is that while when Max takes over the body of herself from a new timeline she doesn't retain any of that Max's memories, whatever consciousness is in control of her back in the main timeline appears to have all of hers. Which means that either a duplicate Max is created when she jumps through a photo or her body goes on autopilot for a while (which must at least be somewhat different to an outside observer given Chloe's "I see the real Max is back" comment). If every rewind creates a new universe than Max has effectively ruined her own life several times over (several Maxes would have been arrested, injured or even killed during the course of that week). The worst probably being the William lives Max if you choose to euthanize Chloe. After our Max bails, the one left over would have woken up in Chloe's house with her dead, Max's fingerprints on Chloe's morphine injector, and no memory of what happened or how she got there. For a game with no actual combat Max can wind up with a pretty sizable body count on her hands by the end. Though to be fair the only times where she actually winds up killing someone directly are the aforementioned Chloe scene and the fisherman during the storm. For everyone else it's more a case of "could have stopped it/rewound but didn't".
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Feb 10, 2018 00:52
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Max does run over and hug Chloe just before she says, 'I see the real Max is back' so it might just be the sudden change in behaviour that's obvious. Chloe doesn't say Max was acting oddly the night that we miss living in the William lives timeline.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:59
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Max does run over and hug Chloe just before she says, 'I see the real Max is back' so it might just be the sudden change in behaviour that's obvious. Chloe doesn't say Max was acting oddly the night that we miss living in the William lives timeline. Ah right, forgot about that. So autopilot Max therefore is probably able to function as normal, it's just the memories of anything she experiences wind up getting overwritten when our Max re-assumes control, that makes sense then. Generally LiS stays fairly consistent with its own rules except for one instance during the first episode. Normally Max retains any items and photos she has on hand whenever she reverses time but if you take a photo of David hassling Kate and then rewind, Max will no longer have the photo when you come back to that point. Off the subject but I've always wondered, what exactly is the significance of that one part of the Nightmare where you suddenly become Victoria for a section? Amusingly enough, while there's no point to it you can actually still rewind during that part (Victoria has her own animations for it and everything). Larryb fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 01:30
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Larryb posted:Generally LiS stays fairly consistent with its own rules except for one instance during the first episode. Normally Max retains any items and photos she has on hand whenever she reverses time but if you take a photo of David hassling Kate and then rewind, Max will no longer have the photo when you come back to that point. There's a couple of other point it breaks its rules, but one of them wasn't really established when it happens. Max right at the start somehow winds up back in the classroom after rewinding time in the bathroom while the rest of the game even uses the fact she remains stationary within mandatory puzzle solutions. It also treats the winning the competition timeline as occurring within a photograph (the front of the plane has got that blur boundary effect, and after travelling even further back through her winning photograph Max says she's pushing the power too far by using photos within photos.) But it shouldn't be. The plane is when she should be catching up to the present in an altered universe. Which means Jefferson burning the journal shouldn't have actually affected her universe. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 06:17
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:There's a couple of other point it breaks its rules, but one of them wasn't really established when it happens. Max right at the start somehow winds up back in the classroom after rewinding time in the bathroom while the rest of the game even uses the fact she remains stationary within mandatory puzzle solutions. The plane and art gallery scene aren't photos within photos, they're just the natural timeline after Max S-Ranks the opening scene of Episode One. Tearing up the Everyday Heroes photo causes Max to end up back in the Dark Room because it overwrites her intervention there and the rest of the week's events play out as usual. The blurring effect on the plane is just a stylistic thing and wasn't meant to indicate that you are within yet another photo, since that would defy all logic of Max's previous jumps.
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Feb 10, 2018 09:13
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I'm really not getting how tearing up the winning photo overwrites her ending up in class and texting David about Jefferson? If that's the case what does burning the journal affect? And that's a fairly confusing stylistic choice if it is. They could have just had it fade into white if they didn't want to create an entire plane cabin, but they have the time blob things swirling around in it which is only shown while photo jumping. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 10:25
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:No, but I'm pretty sure Max says her room is a photo within a photo, when it shouldn't be. And I'm really not getting how tearing up the winning photo overwrites her ending up in class and texting David about Jefferson? Max doesn't say anything about being in a photo when she time jumps back to her room. She gets a really intense nosebleed and comments about how it feels like reality is breaking apart. I looked back at the airplane scene and don't see anything like the burned photo edge effect they use for all the time jumps. There's really intense bloom lighting toward the end of the cabin but it's not the same burn splat they put over the "you are in a photo now" moments.
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Feb 10, 2018 10:33
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exquisite tea posted:Max doesn't say anything about being in a photo when she time jumps back to her room. She gets a really intense nosebleed and comments about how it feels like reality is breaking apart. Yeah you're right I was misremembering her room scene, but the plane definitely has the weird time swirls, not anywhere near as strong as her room scene though. And her dialogue there suggests it's not a proper reality. The William lives timeline didn't have any of that stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa9q8d1Afg&t=66s WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 10:36
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I.. don't see it. There's some strong bloom but the burned edge effects are not there. Max is asking if this is even real because she's super disoriented whenever she time jumps, it's not out of the ordinary from her usual observations whenever she time skips. It's just the regular timeline after she fixes everything, there's nothing to suggest she's actually in another photo. It's more foreshadowing how her belief that she can fix everything is illusory.
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Feb 10, 2018 10:40
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The floor in William's last photo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeO_tiFcnKo&t=334s vs The right hand side of the cabin in the Plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa9q8d1Afg&t=66s They're the same effect.
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Feb 10, 2018 10:45
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Nah, we know that time continues travelling forward while Max is jumping through alternate realities. A different consciousness, or an autopilot helps Chloe move their childhood painting board upstairs and start doing some detective work while 'the camera' follows Max into the William lives timeline, so multiple universes exist independent of each other. So choosing to sacrifice Chloe would be the same as jumping into the last photo William takes. The sacrifice Bay universe still continues to exist even if you never rewind the option. I don't think it's another consciousness or autopilot we see in the photos demonstrating the changes made to the timeline. It's Max. Since Max is automatically returned to the present when she changes the outcome of the moment in the photo she entered, she has no memory of what happens between the moment she intervened in the past and the moment she wakes up in the new timeline. You know, the same way Marty is astonished to discover that his actions in the past had the side-effect of changing his dad from the timid man who Biff bullied into lending him his car to the successful author who pays Biff to wash his car? Yes, Max becomes one of the mean girls in the William Lives timeline but it's implied that she did so purely of her own free will. She wasn't on autopilot, her life just went down a different path as a result of William being forced to take the bus on that fateful day. The creepy side-effect of which is that Max finds herself trapped in a timeline where she's practically another person... Eshettar fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 10:52
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I really think it's just coincidental, man. Every other photo jump in the game is consistently presented as a singular moment in time, after which we get the burned film effect and are shown a transition of slides that hint at how our actions have altered reality. This does not happen in either the plane scene or the subsequent art gallery showing. Its timeline is consistent to where Max would be on the same day as Episode 5 had she won the Everyday Heroes contest. Maybe it's suggesting in a contextual way that Max's goal to save everyone without consequence is an illusion but we're certainly supposed to interpret this scene as having Actually Happened in the main timeline.
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Feb 10, 2018 10:52
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exquisite tea posted:I really think it's just coincidental, man. Every other photo jump in the game is consistently presented as a singular moment in time, after which we get the burned film effect and are shown a transition of slides that hint at how our actions have altered reality. This does not happen in either the plane scene or the subsequent art gallery showing. Its timeline is consistent to where Max would be on the same day as Episode 5 had she won the Everyday Heroes contest. Maybe it's suggesting in a contextual way that Max's goal to save everyone without consequence is an illusion but we're certainly supposed to interpret this scene as having Actually Happened in the main timeline. That does actually happen after the plane ride. The edges burn and we see a picture of her in the darkroom turn into her departing the airport. It really is a weird anomaly. I'm not saying it's a huge problem, it's just one of the few times they don't follow their rules well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa9q8d1Afg&t=824s
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Feb 10, 2018 10:59
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It's an odd transition to have a delayed photo effect like that, but I don't think we're intended to interpret the plane ride as being within another photo or not having actually happened. If I had to guess I'd say it was a remnant of an alternate fourth ending that was ultimately scrapped, where the player could choose to end the game after winning the Everyday Heroes contest saving both the town and Chloe but Max would end up riding the plane with.... Mr. Jefferson dun dun dun!
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Feb 10, 2018 11:06
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exquisite tea posted:It's an odd transition to have a delayed photo effect like that, but I don't think we're intended to interpret the plane ride as being within another photo or not having actually happened. That makes sense. I still don't quite understand how tearing the photo lands Max back in the darkroom.
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Feb 10, 2018 11:12
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:That makes sense. I still don't quite understand how tearing the photo lands Max back in the darkroom. This one requires some magical thinking but... when she destroys the Everyday Heroes photo in her room, the pieces of it remain in her journal, rather than in the original timeline where she rips it up in the girls' bathroom. Later when Jefferson abducts Max he can see that she destroyed it, which enrages him and causes him to burn her journal, meaning that Max could not have photo jumped back to Episode One to escape the Dark Room. So in effect tearing up the Everyday Heroes photo both overwrites her no-death LiS Any % speedrun and lands her back where she would have been at that point in the timeline.
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Feb 10, 2018 11:23
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But then she couldn't have used the photo to return to tear it up either. It's a time paradox. As I understand it Max first wakes up in the darkroom and looks at one of the printed photos of herself. She knocks over poo poo in that photo timeline and gets booted back to a stable timeline. She then enters a new photo of herself and in that photo timeline uses her journal to enter a second photo timeline and warn David. Presumably the writers get a bit confused here or there's rewrites because it contradicts itself. Max doesn't get returned to a stable timeline, but returns to the first layer of photo-ception. This is to show a growing recklessness in her attempts to fix everything. She goes through the competition and when she uses her winning photo she once again goes to a second layer of photo-ception. Once she tears the photo she returns to a stable timeline in the darkroom. Now here's the problem, this shouldn't have affected her journal in the stable darkroom if the warning to David in the second layer of photo-ception didn't affect the Jefferson in the stable darkroom. He should have been arrested well before he could have even abducted Max. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 11:35
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I don't think there's any contradiction here. There are multiple realities but just one timeline that Max's consciousness can occupy. When Max tears up the Everyday Heroes photo, it overwrites her previous jump back into the classroom from Dark Room #1. The confrontation with Jefferson where she submits her entry never happens, because she autopilots her way back to Episode 5 with the original events from this timeline. When David saves Max from the Dark Room #2 it's of his own accord from his own investigation, likely aided by the evidence Chloe and Max put together in Chloe's room.
exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 11:44
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e: Oh wait, yeah that makes more sense. It's not the journal being burnt that pulls her back to the darkroom. One way they could have made that clearer is have a photo of the warning to David burn out and be replaced by her sitting in class. e2: It all could have been avoided if Max simply hadn't deleted the text after sending it to David though. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 11:54
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Yeah, since she tore the photo up before her body went on autopilot (and thus, before the whole incident happened) she would have lost her memories and played out the week like normal. That does make a lot more sense when you put it like that. Of course, in retrospect she could have probably shot David a text BEFORE she ripped the photo but her obsession with protecting Chloe had kind of reached its boiling point by then so she probably wasn't thinking that clearly. So what are the odds we finally see something LiS 2 related at this years E3? Or would they be more focused on promoting Vampyr at this point?
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Feb 10, 2018 14:15
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Larryb posted:Also, E3 is only 6 days away. Which means we might be getting some concrete information on LiS 2 before long. Isn't E3 in June?
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Feb 10, 2018 23:52
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June 12th, 2018.
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Feb 10, 2018 23:53
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exquisite tea posted:June 12th, 2018. Ah, must have misunderstood somehow. All the same I hope we get our first trailer there as at the moment I'm actually more curious about that then I am about Farewell. Plus from what I understand production and mo-cap work for LiS 2 already began last year, we just don't have any information yet. While we know it will feature a new cast and setting I'm curious if this is going to wind up having any connection to the original game or if it's just going to be more of a spiritual sequel, honestly I'd be fine with either. If the former winds up being the case there technically is a way to acknowledge both endings of LiS: Hide it behind an important choice. For example, you could have an older Max in the game as a holdover character serving as kind of a mentor/acquaintance of sorts to the new protagonist. At one point your character is given one of two questions/dialogue choices to ask/say. Going one way would have Max react as if Sacrifice Chloe happened while the other would canonize Sacrifice the Bay. Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 00:47
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I've been playing through LIS again for the first time since completing BTS and was surprised to find that somewhere along the way I have been transformed from an ardent, unrepentant Bay-er to a tentative Bae-er. I still think choosing to save the Bay is the better choice narratively but as I approach episode 5 I'm beginning to think that I'm gonna have to let Arcadia Bay get obliterated because the idea of letting Chloe die is too distressing. I suppose that's appropriate. BTS has a lot of problems, particularly in the second half of the third episode, but it's succeeded in becoming inexorably linked to the original in my mind and it's dramatically increased my affection for Chloe's character.
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Feb 11, 2018 03:23
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In It For The Tank posted:I've been playing through LIS again for the first time since completing BTS and was surprised to find that somewhere along the way I have been transformed from an ardent, unrepentant Bay-er to a tentative Bae-er. I still think choosing to save the Bay is the better choice narratively but as I approach episode 5 I'm beginning to think that I'm gonna have to let Arcadia Bay get obliterated because the idea of letting Chloe die is too distressing. I suppose that's appropriate. I said it before but it makes so many of the moments in LiS feel TOTALLY different after playing BtS and seeing what all Chloe goes through. Like specifically it's a lot easier for me to see Chloe's side of things when Kate calls Max at the diner. It goes from "jesus Chloe, chill out" to "well... well poo poo. I see why she gets so immediately upset now" and that translates to a lot of when she gets angry with Max at the drop of a hat. And again it also makes everything to do with Rachel Amber way sadder now that they made her into an actual character you meet and interact with (and sort of date?) and (mostly) get to know. It made the scene where they find her body in the junkyard EXTRA loving sad. The missing persons posters end up being this kind of mysterious thing into a pretty sad thing. It makes the pictures in Jefferson's binder of her feel even more hosed up when she's not just this mysterious entity you basically just hear stories about Going from BtS to LiS animation wise though is uh... rough. Hoo boy does Life is Strange look rough now after playing Before the Storm
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Feb 11, 2018 05:42
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Yeah, no kidding. It's serviceable enough but the character models can barely emote and it's really due to the eye movements and quality of the voice actors that you get any impact out of it at all. Compare that to BtS where everyone is much more expressive (even if it makes it seem like they're made of rubber at times). From what I hear, LiS 2 will continue to use the Unreal engine instead of switching to Unity like BtS did. But hopefully there have been enough advancements to it in the last few years that it'll look a lot better this time. Larryb fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 05:53
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I think the scene LiS' look stands up the least is the pool section. Everything's lit from below, they're weightless, really stiff and Max has the dopiest expressions.
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Feb 11, 2018 06:15
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Binged BTS over the past few days. I loved the first game, but I'm pretty lukewarm on this. I would have preferred a true Fire Walk With Me experience, showing Rachel's downfall, the breakdown of Chloe and Rachel's relationship, and how she got involved with Frank and Jefferson, but maybe that would be too bleak. That ending stinger was super schlocky too. A shot of a missing poster blowing in the wind would have been a thousand times more appropriate.
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Feb 11, 2018 06:35
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Lester Shy posted:Binged BTS over the past few days. I loved the first game, but I'm pretty lukewarm on this. I would have preferred a true Fire Walk With Me experience, showing Rachel's downfall, the breakdown of Chloe and Rachel's relationship, and how she got involved with Frank and Jefferson, but maybe that would be too bleak. Glad it wasn't tbh. As other people have said, BtS shows us why we should feel anything for Rachel and Chloe's relationship beyond knowing that she meant 'something' to Chloe. Seeing Chloe and her fall in love was way more important to LiS' story than seeing how she got groomed by older men. But yeah that after-credits sequence was god-awful and tone-deaf. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 08:15
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Lester Shy posted:Binged BTS over the past few days. I loved the first game, but I'm pretty lukewarm on this. I would have preferred a true Fire Walk With Me experience, showing Rachel's downfall, the breakdown of Chloe and Rachel's relationship, and how she got involved with Frank and Jefferson, but maybe that would be too bleak. So you're saying you would have wanted to see a deteriorating relationship as a teenage girl falls into drugs and is ultimately abducted and killed by a man twice her age, but a 10-second ending stinger that borrows the same exact visual language from the opening of LiS episode 5 was too schlocky for you? exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 09:00
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exquisite tea posted:So you're saying you would have wanted to see a deteriorating relationship as a teenage girl falls into drugs and is ultimately abducted and killed by a man twice her age, but a 10-second ending stinger that borrows the same exact visual language from the opening of LiS episode 5 was too schlocky for you? I'm not comparing the two, I'm saying that the stinger felt a little tasteless in contrast to the tone set by the (mostly) happy ending montage that immediately preceded it. It's like seeing a horror movie monster pop on screen as a sequel hook right before the credits roll. Obviously this would be different if the entire plot and tone of the game were darker.
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Feb 11, 2018 09:14
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Hang on a second. Just thinking about LiS ending. We know that all universes exist simultaneously and we simply control an invasive prime Max consciousness. The fact that the choice between Bae and Bay exists means that both universes and their consequences exist. Therefore regardless of choice those lives are lost in a universe somewhere. We literally only make the choice of which universe the prime Max consciousness resides in. The only moral choice can be the best possible result for that prime Max consciousness and that's obviously Bae. Please don’t ruin life is strange with that dumb anime bullshit, namaste
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Feb 11, 2018 09:54
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Feb 11, 2018 10:15
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Paul Zuvella posted:Please don’t ruin life is strange with that dumb anime bullshit, namaste Too late.
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Feb 11, 2018 11:38
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