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Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with



Grimey Drawer

ThePopeOfFun posted:

How much does a Temp Writer position for a game like Diablo IV pay? Not something I can hope to get right now, but I do write for a living and transitioning to games wouldn't be impossible. I'm evaluating different industries and trying to plan long-term. My impression is...probably not much? Is narrative lead the terminal position?

I'd guess somewhere in the $22 - $30 / hour range, and that might be erring on the side of optimistic. Writing is not particularly well comped in most studios and Blizzard specifically is not known to pay as much as some other studios.

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ThePopeOfFun
Feb 15, 2010



Ouch. I figured writing is not the pinnacle of anything in the games world. Would be fun to write that stuff though!

Janitor Ludwich IV
Jan 25, 2019


can i make a game and get rich or are asset flip indies dead now

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.


Janitor Ludwich IV posted:

can i make a game and get rich or are asset flip indies dead now

Sure, it's possible. But it's far more likely you'll not recover costs.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Janitor Ludwich IV posted:

can i make a game and get rich or are asset flip indies dead now

I don't think there was ever a time where "asset flip indies" made enough money to qualify you as "rich" lol

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!


leper khan posted:

Sure, it's possible. But it's far more likely you'll not recover costs.
The key is to automate it

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.



That's a great talk and my business side friends still talk about it.

Paranoid Dude
Jul 6, 2014


Janitor Ludwich IV posted:

can i make a game and get rich or are asset flip indies dead now

Indie darling of last year, Phasmophobia, was made by a team of one with no art team using solely asset flips. It's very possible to succeed with an asset flip indie game given it can be as incredibly marketable as Phasmophobia's unique premise/implementation.

Play
Apr 25, 2006

So I roll with a rolling thunder
And I howl with the howling wind
And I drift downstream for as long as it takes
To get up and around the bend

Also as time goes on it stands to figure that free / cheap assets will increase in quality and number and be easier to use and still look decent.

Still, out of all the small games released on steam every year most of the total failures are low effort asset flips and the majority of the successes have original art.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.


Play posted:

Also as time goes on it stands to figure that free / cheap assets will increase in quality and number and be easier to use and still look decent.

Still, out of all the small games released on steam every year most of the total failures are low effort asset flips and the majority of the successes have original art.

Most of the successes have some sort of budget behind them. Bespoke art requires a budget, the same way bespoke code does.

chglcu
May 17, 2007

I'm so bored with the USA.

Play posted:

Also as time goes on it stands to figure that free / cheap assets will increase in quality and number and be easier to use and still look decent.

Still, out of all the small games released on steam every year most of the total failures are low effort asset flips and the majority of the successes have original art.

The major problem with purchased assets - in my opinion - is just that itís drat near impossible to create a full game with a unified visual theme using them, unless youíre specifically creating the game around a limited set of assets, which is inherently very constraining.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


chglcu posted:

The major problem with purchased assets - in my opinion - is just that itís drat near impossible to create a full game with a unified visual theme using them, unless youíre specifically creating the game around a limited set of assets, which is inherently very constraining.

Definitely. Although as an indie, even if you have an artist creating unique art for your game, you don't have an unlimited budget and so you're still effectively working off a limited set of assets.

Good game designs are all about coming up with something where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Also having those restrictions can help you be productive, like with a jam topic. Necessity is the mother of invention and all.

Still, you're totally right. It sucks when you find a pack of art that looks good and you can buy but then there's one or two things missing you want, and finding those assets elsewhere means they don't really jive as far as visual style.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007



Are there any good up to date VR dev tutorials? I'm coming from a professional background of C# development so looking at using Unity. I'd like to play around with some personal projects and not looking to go BIG or whatever. I've come across a few; but, I'm getting the distinct feeling that the development tools/libraries are in a large state of flux still. I guess I should just dive in; but, I I'd like to minimize missteps.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

You walk in with the Turnips, you leave with the Bells.



A good question, and someone here might know, but I'll also direct you to the Making Games thread as they might know as well: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506853

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007



Ah cool, thanks!

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


c355n4 posted:

Are there any good up to date VR dev tutorials? I'm coming from a professional background of C# development so looking at using Unity. I'd like to play around with some personal projects and not looking to go BIG or whatever. I've come across a few; but, I'm getting the distinct feeling that the development tools/libraries are in a large state of flux still. I guess I should just dive in; but, I I'd like to minimize missteps.

This guy has some good videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ValemVR/videos and if you look up a few like this one: https://www.youtube.com/c/ValemVR/videos it has step by step instructions on getting stuff set up. This was a bit over a year ago though, but my game I'm working on in Unity I'm still using those older settings (there are various reasons why newer versions can be a pain).

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007



Lemming posted:

This guy has some good videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ValemVR/videos and if you look up a few like this one: https://www.youtube.com/c/ValemVR/videos it has step by step instructions on getting stuff set up. This was a bit over a year ago though, but my game I'm working on in Unity I'm still using those older settings (there are various reasons why newer versions can be a pain).

I was actually watching his videos. Cool. Still trying to wrap my head around all the various version of Unity and their pros/cons.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008


c355n4 posted:

I was actually watching his videos. Cool. Still trying to wrap my head around all the various version of Unity and their pros/cons.

I would check this page out https://skarredghost.com/2020/09/25/steamvr-unity-xr-interaction-toolkit-input/ since there are some issues with making builds that work with all the various platforms and headsets. I personally am using Unity 2019.3.15f (I think) and using the legacy settings, since I'm trying to build everything in UnityXR to keep things relatively platform agnostic

DrZepam
Mar 15, 2021


Lemming posted:

I would check this page out https://skarredghost.com/2020/09/25/steamvr-unity-xr-interaction-toolkit-input/ since there are some issues with making builds that work with all the various platforms and headsets. I personally am using Unity 2019.3.15f (I think) and using the legacy settings, since I'm trying to build everything in UnityXR to keep things relatively platform agnostic

I've used https://vrtoolkit.readme.io/ for a Oculus/SteamVR/PSVR game in 2017 and it helped me at that time, their latest version 3.x evolved to something quite rigid for big production projects but still amazing for prototyping, i still gave it a try for a small non-game interactive app and it delivered.

only downside is the initial dependencies setup and you're good to go. their website is documented and the provided code have a metric tons of examples and gym maps.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


Crossposting with the CG thread...
Where's the best place to put an ad out to hire someone/a team proficient in UE - blueprints, frontend, interactivity?
From a games experience point of view, is this considered UI?
I took a look on Gamasutra, they have a contractor list 1700 strong but it's a bit of a random crapshoot to click through and try and figure out if they offer the services we want.

We'd like to find someone (or a team) that we can potentially rely on for more of this - someone excited about the possibilities and experienced enough to suggest new approaches and ideas that we might not have considered.
We'd supply scenes organized however required, and we'd be able to handle design elements of the UI if needed too - it's largely the programming and interactive component we need help with.

here's a quick reel of some of the past experience spaces that we've designed & built - we get healthy budgets to do it properly! https://vimeo.com/341597152

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


c355n4 posted:

Are there any good up to date VR dev tutorials? I'm coming from a professional background of C# development so looking at using Unity. I'd like to play around with some personal projects and not looking to go BIG or whatever. I've come across a few; but, I'm getting the distinct feeling that the development tools/libraries are in a large state of flux still. I guess I should just dive in; but, I I'd like to minimize missteps.

That's a huge subject. Generally VR dev in Unity is about the same as normal Unity, but there's just a lot of best-practice in the VR world that you'll need to learn. Hard to cover it all in a post though

Happy to help with any questions you have.

c355n4 posted:

I was actually watching his videos. Cool. Still trying to wrap my head around all the various version of Unity and their pros/cons.

Base - allows you to use normal shaders
Universal - allows you to use shader graph (very handy), but writing shaders from code are more complicated
HDRP - looks amazing, but possibly unfit for VR as its heavy duty detail shaders which can chug in VR (although doable, as HL Alyx proved-- not that its unity, but that it used advanced shaders and post-procesing)

I'm building in Universal. Lots of assets are designed for base unity or universal unity and don't work out of the box with the other one, so be aware of that. (Although many also include a way to quickly convert to the other, so that's nice where available)

Also, VR in Unity is... complicated.

Are you thinking about targeting Quest or PCVR? There's at least 3 VR APIs available for Unity and they have some different approaches.

Lemming posted:

I would check this page out https://skarredghost.com/2020/09/25/steamvr-unity-xr-interaction-toolkit-input/ since there are some issues with making builds that work with all the various platforms and headsets. I personally am using Unity 2019.3.15f (I think) and using the legacy settings, since I'm trying to build everything in UnityXR to keep things relatively platform agnostic

OpenXR is the future but AFAIK Unity doesn't support it for most headsets yet? (unlike Unreal, which is further along)

As a result I think right now you're better off building against either the bespoke Oculus SDK or the OpenVR SDK (which is Valve's SteamVR) and each doesn't work with the other, so you'll have to fork and build against both if you want to target both. OpenXR is the plan forward to make that less of a pain, but its not yet fully implemented.

You know as much about this topic as I do though, if not more.

Note that there's lots of interaction libraries out there, and using them can save you TONS of time in developing VR controls and interactions. However that means embracing that library API and working within its limitations. I ended up rolling my own interactions from scratch, which is probably stupid.

There's an example scene in the Steam OpenVR SDK that shows lots of interactions you can test out and then use to build your own features.

c355n4 feel free to PM me if you have any questions and I'll answer them if able.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jul 20, 2021

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c355n4
Jan 3, 2007



Zaphod42, thanks!

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