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Judakel
Jul 29, 2004

MAGA FAN #1



I wish I had seen this. Huge fan.

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Judakel
Jul 29, 2004

MAGA FAN #1


Fart City posted:

I’m worried that CK is going to be the litmus test for what counts as an “earned” redemption story, simply because of what we’re seeing in this very thread - that wasn’t “as bad” as others, or that he “took ownership” of what he did.

He’s a loving predator who preyed uninhibited for decades. The only reason he stopped is the same reason any of these motherfuckers stop; he got caught. He didn’t realize the error of his ways and have a come to Jesus moment or some poo poo.

He assaulted women, full stop. Serially. You don’t get to call a do-over on that. The club that hosted him should be ashamed.

He stopped well before he got caught.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!



Len posted:

Did anything end up happening with Ansari? I thought it was just the one article and that was all that came out of it?

I think even in this very thread there were people defending Ansari and victim blaming and trying to discredit the source. So no not really.

I mean hell, nothing happened to Chris Hardwick and he's basically the definition of disposable personality.

Not Operator
Jan 1, 2009

Not A doctor, THE Doctor!


https://twitter.com/The40YearOldBoy/status/1034324769527590912

Good job, Schmitty.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Judakel posted:

He stopped well before he got caught.

I mean... the last reported incident was in 2009? And he stopped once it became a known industry secret and people started talking about it (and was thereby caught)? And he spent the remaining years up until 2017 trying to discredit the women who were alleging the abuse? And that still makes him a predatory shithead?

Is that better?

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004

MAGA FAN #1


Fart City posted:

I mean... the last reported incident was in 2009?

Is that better?

It is more accurate, yes.

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012


louis ck shouldn't be able 2 continue being a standup

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.


Why can't all these guys get a job mopping up a Baskin Robbins or something?

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


LesterGroans posted:

Why can't all these guys get a job mopping up a Baskin Robbins or something?
Or just live off owning Babe Ruth's house.

Like... he could literally just airbnb Babe Ruth's house for the rest of his life.

If I owned Babe Ruth's house, nobody would ever worry about me. They'd always be like, "Nah, he's fine. He owns Babe Ruth's house."

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


For gently caress's sake.

There is a local comedy club that has brought in some pretty decent national talent over the last two years and their FB page was praising the gently caress out of Louie's return 12 hours ago. Looks like they got some much flak they took the entire page down. Dude's always gonna be a hero to some people.

Coffee And Pie
Nov 4, 2010

"Blah-sum"?
More like "Blawesome"


GrandpaPants posted:

I think even in this very thread there were people defending Ansari and victim blaming and trying to discredit the source. So no not really.

I mean hell, nothing happened to Chris Hardwick and he's basically the definition of disposable personality.

At least Netflix shitcanned Master of None

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Coffee And Pie posted:

At least Netflix shitcanned Master of None

No they didn't.

https://www.avclub.com/netflix-is-ready-for-more-master-of-none-when-aziz-is-1827982358

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


The Ansari thing is weird and reads to me like a confused sexual encounter that was retold by a website that wanted to rush and get their name out there while #metoo was hot.

Also, Winona Ryder faced more shunning and scorn for shoplifting than CK ever did for forcing women into watching him jerk off.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


No, it reads like a woman giving explicit and implicit signals that she doesn't want to engage in certain sexual activity and repeatedly being pressured to do those things anyway.

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 29, 2018

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Ansari resurfacing would make more sense if he were actually funny

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The problem with making social justice into a hashtag sensation is that it has the same lifespan as any other media fad, and before you know it you're trying to push what was so two weeks ago, everyone's found something new and trendy to be mad about now.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Ghost Leviathan posted:

The problem with making social justice into a hashtag sensation is that it has the same lifespan as any other media fad, and before you know it you're trying to push what was so two weeks ago, everyone's found something new and trendy to be mad about now.

It's almost like you actually need to totally restructure American society into something completely new and different that doesn't place white men at the highest position of power. You know, instead of just hoping things will get better if you shame enough gross white male perverts or call people racists enough.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




Why not both?

I mean restructuring society will take a while so something's gotta be done in the meantime.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



Basebf555 posted:

The denials are really what ruins it in my opinion, more than anything specific in his apology. When you've denied accusations publicly for years, which as the effect of further emotionally harming the victims, to me you give up your ability to come clean later and expect forgiveness.

The early accusations were wrong. They started third party, and the early accusations contain things like "he forced them to watch and closed the door and didn't allow them to leave" that a lot of people still believe.

Also, his apology was good because it focused on the *point*. He, like *most* men even a decade or so ago, much less before then, did not understand implicit as opposed to explicit power, so pushing or getting a "yes" is all they needed to proceed in any sexual situation. Gen Xers grew up entirely with "get rich and famous and powerful so women want to gently caress you" - and it took decades of "getting powerful gives you power over people and removes consent" being put in the public eye to wipe that conditioning from our generation. Getting men to learn not to hit on their junior coworkers and employees (which happens alllllllll the time) is what people should take from his example.

I personally believe in forgiveness when someone shows a pattern of learning and not offending again for cases of misconduct (which is not the same as assault). If we don't allow people to learn and change, what's the point? He figured that stuff out on his own, apparently, apologized via his own routine, and never (to our knowledge) repeated the misconduct.

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.


I don't think anyone's saying he's not allowed to learn and change. That's undoubtedly a good thing. But if a manager of a Subway did this to some employees I sure as hell wouldn't want him managing any more Subways, no matter how many vacation days he took.

graventy
Jul 27, 2006




Fun Shoe

Yeah, that's basically it. You were great at comedy, but you abused the hell out of your power for sexual purposes. Find a new career!

Unfortunately that's not the way society works, but it loving should.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




King Vidiot posted:

It's almost like you actually need to totally restructure American society into something completely new and different that doesn't place white men at the highest position of power. You know, instead of just hoping things will get better if you shame enough gross white male perverts or call people racists enough.

Rich white men, let's not forget. Ignoring the entire class dimension of inequality is kind of what allows capitalism to completely co-opt and effectively neuter social justice in the first place, leaving it a hollowed-out shell suited only for marketing departments and predatory bullies as the ideas of capitalism and solidarity are utterly opposed.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


graventy posted:

Yeah, that's basically it. You were great at comedy, but you abused the hell out of your power for sexual purposes. Find a new career!

Unfortunately that's not the way society works, but it loving should.

Those baconators ain't gonna grill themselves.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Rich white men, let's not forget. Ignoring the entire class dimension of inequality is kind of what allows capitalism to completely co-opt and effectively neuter social justice in the first place, leaving it a hollowed-out shell suited only for marketing departments and predatory bullies as the ideas of capitalism and solidarity are utterly opposed.

Well, they're white and male specifically because rich people need a uniform face to present to racist underclass white people to say "See? You and me, we're not so different and if you keep the women and minorities down then someday you too will be as rich and powerful as me!". Whiteness (which is entirely made up) and maleness (also made up) are the root cause of the problem, they're what's keeping the rich capitalists in power. Like, you can't ignore class sure, but you also can't ignore race and gender. The underclass are divided along totally made-up lines that are meaningless.

graventy posted:

Yeah, that's basically it. You were great at comedy, but you abused the hell out of your power for sexual purposes. Find a new career!

At this point, Louis CK could probably just do nothing for the rest of his life because he's rich. If he still needs to make humorous observations about the world, I dunno, he can start a loving blog or something like the rest of us.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


King Vidiot posted:

Well, they're white and male specifically because rich people need a uniform face to present to racist underclass white people to say "See? You and me, we're not so different and if you keep the women and minorities down then someday you too will be as rich and powerful as me!". Whiteness (which is entirely made up) and maleness (also made up) are the root cause of the problem, they're what's keeping the rich capitalists in power. Like, you can't ignore class sure, but you also can't ignore race and gender. The underclass are divided along totally made-up lines that are meaningless.

I think calling them the root cause of the problem is slightly off. There's no doubt that whiteness and maleness have become incredibly toxic but they're that way because white people and men have been in dominant positions for so long, and because our society incentivizes sociopathic and predatory behavior as a road to the top, not the other way around.

All unequal positions of social power contribute to the potential for abuse, as does a culture of zero sum competition where any gain has to come at someone else's expense. These traits are probably not innately male (and certainly not to the extent to which we actually practice them) and they absolutely aren't innately white; they are to a great extent white people's and men's responsibility to combat because we are presently the main carriers and beneficiaries of those circumstances, but that's not quite the same thing.

(The main difference being that we can't stop there, to be clear.)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The whole point of rainbow capitalism is to put a friendly politically correct face on the same old brutal exploitation; that the exploitative oligarchy is acceptable if they put some smiling women and minorities on the cover.

"We care, now isn't that enough? Buy our products and/or services."

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

All unequal positions of social power contribute to the potential for abuse, as does a culture of zero sum competition where any gain has to come at someone else's expense. These traits are probably not innately male (and certainly not to the extent to which we actually practice them) and they absolutely aren't innately white; they are to a great extent white people's and men's responsibility to combat because we are presently the main carriers and beneficiaries of those circumstances, but that's not quite the same thing.

That's not quite what I was saying, I'm saying that (predominantly-if-not-entirely white male) imperialists at some point in history said "I need the lower-class whites to protect my status, so I'm going to invent this concept of white people being superior to black people, and men being superior to women". Then people bought it, and ever since then there have been forward-thinking progressive people trying to tear that down.

Yes, there is nothing inherently wrong with white people that makes them oppressors, I agree, but what I'm saying is that white people were told to be racist specifically to divide the lower classes and pit them against each other.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Darko posted:

I personally believe in forgiveness when someone shows a pattern of learning and not offending again for cases of misconduct (which is not the same as assault). If we don't allow people to learn and change, what's the point? He figured that stuff out on his own, apparently, apologized via his own routine, and never (to our knowledge) repeated the misconduct.

As others have said though, forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean that things go back to the way they were before the misconduct. Forgiveness means different things to different people. Personally I wouldn't want to be a part of financially supporting Louis CK, but that's not the same as saying he shouldn't ever have forgiveness.

Part of it for me is the amount of knowledge we have about the personal lives of celebrities, which really isn't much all things considered. Like, sure, if 5 years go by and no more Louis CK sexual misconduct stories come out, that's great but how confident can I really be that he's just hiding it more effectively? Making a living as a public figure isn't an entitlement, it means the public judges your words and actions and then decides whether they want to support you or not. I'd rather play it safe and just say Louis CK is not someone I want to risk giving my money to any longer.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Zogo posted:

The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things (2004) has recently skyrocketed to being the most popular feature film of 2004 on IMDb
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?year=2004&title_type=feature

Don't watch this movie. Seriously. It's just gross. It never turns the corner, it never has a point beyond PEOPLE SURE ARE GARBAGE, it's just self-indulgent and terrible from start to finish.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



I just weigh misconduct on a different level than assault, and then levels within on top of that. I deal with various levels of misconduct and sometimes technically sometimes non serious assault on me at least once a week, and still aren't in the "throw those people under the bus" level with the people that do it - as the base issue is people just not understanding boundaries around other people, and that's something that is understandable and fixable. Especially with society and media telling men the complete wrong thing to do for forever.

I'm not a woman, so I no doubt deal with less than most of them, but I can and do relate to a degree on being on the receiving end all of the time. Now when you're talking about actual patterns of predatory assault, that's not a mistake and shows intent, and *there* is where I place the "go hide somewhere forever" judgment. People like Spacey and Weinstein; gently caress them, never want to hear from them anymore, but with other cases, it depends entirely on knowledge, intent, admission, and change for me, personally.

SunshineDanceParty
Feb 7, 2006

One Road. Two Friends. One Ass.


The whole Louis situation is so frustrating. The rumors were around for years and I was glad he finally was revealed after actively denying it. But just from his standup and shows you knew his apology was going to be decent. But that doesn't mean it was real and him returning to the stage so soon says everything. gently caress Louis CK.

SunshineDanceParty fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 29, 2018

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004

MAGA FAN #1


DrVenkman posted:

The Ansari thing is weird and reads to me like a confused sexual encounter that was retold by a website that wanted to rush and get their name out there while #metoo was hot.

Also, Winona Ryder faced more shunning and scorn for shoplifting than CK ever did for forcing women into watching him jerk off.

Didn't the "reporter" for that blog get mad on twitter and curse at some veteran reporter for calling her out?

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!



This doesn't seem suspicious at all: https://capitalandmain.com/cuomo-received-25000-dollars-from-weinstein-lawyers-firm-as-he-suspended-probe-0829

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!




Another thing it isn't at all is surprising. Who'd have thunk a rich man could just have his lawyers indefinitely buy him out of facing any legal repercussions for his actions?

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Zogo posted:

The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things (2004) has recently skyrocketed to being the most popular feature film of 2004 on IMDb
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?year=2004&title_type=feature

There is a ton of fallout from this movie alone between Asia and J.T. LeRoy.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!



Despite the standing o, some women were upset by Louis CK's set: http://www.vulture.com/amp/2018/08/louis-ck-comedy-cellar-women-describe-rape-whistle-joke.html

quote:

The women say C.K.’s set was similar to his usual material, and included a joke about the phrase “clean as a whistle,” which built up to a joke about how rape whistles are not clean. “When he said ‘rape whistle’ people were laughing, and I was just sitting there like oh my gently caress. This is so uncomfortable and so disgusting. Everyone around me was laughing. That was just depressing.”

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Sounds like he learned a lot.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Rhyno posted:

Sounds like he learned a lot.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Daddy I Love You was on his website for direct purchase by the end of the year similarly to how he used to release some of his albums. That’s a shocking lack of awareness, doing that joke. No reason to think he’ll stop being unaware anytime soon.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



For better or worse that really is a classic Louie joke, you can just imagine him delivering it

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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


I'm really just glad he took his time away to grow as a person.

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