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esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Cursed to the Vancouver television mines.

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Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


Rhyno posted:

He just did a three year stint on the 100. He's not TV a list anymore but he's working.

Fair enough. I didn't know that.

Still, from TV a-list, multiple award wins and a few biggish movies to that is a pretty big fall. And what he did wasn't nearly on the level of CKs

I still can't get over how bad that set is. I've been to a few open mics, and none of the comics at those (who run the gamut from 'clearly doing this on a dare' to 'really funny and with a unique voice, just need a break') were that awfully predictable and bad.

Predictable in the sense that the joke starts out being angry at kids, or saying asians have small dicks, and just presses on with that.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Louis C.K. is goin' Leuchter.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



The furor over CK’s set is confusing imo. It’s exactly the same sort of comedy that he’s told over and over again in the past 10 years. It’s less refined and polished, which is why you’re hearing it in a scratchy audio recording rather than in a 4K Netflix video.

People are talking as if CK’s just lost it and is being an old rambling dude now. Nothing has changed! This is exactly the same sort of comedy you used to love! You’d have respected this man for joking about parkland survivors or gender-neutral-pronoun-using teens just years ago.

His transgressions surely color his work but it’s pathetic to pretend as if his style has taken a sudden nosedive and that’s the real reason we hate him now. He’s doing much the same thing as before.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Vegetable posted:

The furor over CK’s set is confusing imo. It’s exactly the same sort of comedy that he’s told over and over again in the past 10 years. It’s less refined and polished, which is why you’re hearing it in a scratchy audio recording rather than in a 4K Netflix video.

People are talking as if CK’s just lost it and is being an old rambling dude now. Nothing has changed! This is exactly the same sort of comedy you used to love! You’d have respected this man for joking about parkland survivors or gender-neutral-pronoun-using teens just years ago.

His transgressions surely color his work but it’s pathetic to pretend as if his style has taken a sudden nosedive and that’s the real reason we hate him now. He’s doing much the same thing as before.

Honestly, this actually is a sea change for him, it's just a subtle one. He used to make jokes about hosed up subject matter, but with at least a veneer of empathy for the affected; this routine, however, actively revels in its utter lack of such empathy.

He's turned from the kind of person who'd mock rapists into the kind of person who'd mock rape victims. That probably says something about the former having been a facade to begin with, but it still sucks.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


Vegetable posted:

The furor over CK’s set is confusing imo. It’s exactly the same sort of comedy that he’s told over and over again in the past 10 years. It’s less refined and polished, which is why you’re hearing it in a scratchy audio recording rather than in a 4K Netflix video.

People are talking as if CK’s just lost it and is being an old rambling dude now. Nothing has changed! This is exactly the same sort of comedy you used to love! You’d have respected this man for joking about parkland survivors or gender-neutral-pronoun-using teens just years ago.

His transgressions surely color his work but it’s pathetic to pretend as if his style has taken a sudden nosedive and that’s the real reason we hate him now. He’s doing much the same thing as before.

Source your quotes

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I think yeah, to some extent CK seems like he's going more to the "punch down" area but also, yeah, he kind of always punched down.

To me I'm less having revelations about him and more about myself. Maybe he was always kind of this way and I was just a shittier person than I was 5 years ago? Maybe I'm growing and he isn't? As a guy I kind of think that's the biggest part of the MeToo movement. It isn't really about punishing individual guys who cross huge loving lines we all agree are there, its about a whole lot of guys who didn't do that kind of stuff maybe realizing lines they didn't see before or re-evaluating past actions and maybe changing the culture?

The Ansari thing really speaks to that. Did he assault her? I dunno, I don't really think so. Was he too aggressive and pushy? Yeah, it seems that way in retrospect but maybe I can sorta see why he'd be confused. Is it kind of hosed up that he had this idea of "playing hard to get" in his head where he'd maybe think it was ok to try and talk someone into having sex when they clearly weren't that into it? Yeah, definitely. Is that kind of idea really widespread and maybe even in me a little hence why I'm so iffy on him? Yeah... definitely something to be thinking about.

So like... I don't know if CK is getting worse or if he was always this bad. But I know when I look back at some of his old jokes its not to compare to itself, its to ask myself why I found that funny when I did and what that says about me.

UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD




It was mentioned in another thread but I'm reminded that he always did appearances on the Opie and Anthony show before he got really big. I do think that this is just him letting the mask fall away completely more than anything.

UnknownMercenary fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 1, 2019

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Louis C.K.'s entire standup used to be based around "dude says awful poo poo, but under the auspice of recognizing and owning his awfulness in the process." This is "dude says awful poo poo because he's bitter as gently caress about being called out for being a scumbag." That bitterness is the shift. It flips the script on his "character" from lovable-but-well-meaning-loser to something much darker and angrier. And again, look at the content: there's no diffusing or owning of his shitiness in that set; if nothing else, he double-downs on every terrible thing. That's not how his routine used to be. It was way more of a give-and-take structure.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Yeah he's stopped being an extremely frank everyman and is now an angry right-wing zombie version of himself.

If he was such a great guy all along though, he would've addressed or stopped doing this stuff before he was forced to.

Sodomy Hussein posted:

OK so the general history:

It was in the public rumor mill as early as 2012.

Jen Kirkman essentially outed him as a sex pest in 2015.

Roseanne said she'd heard all kinds of poo poo about him in 2016.

Tig Notaro publicly severed ties a couple of months before the Times story broke.

Both of the above stories bury some ledes, such as accusations of CK doing very Weinstein-like stuff in public.

Essentially by 2015 at the latest everyone in show business knows he's a pervert and simply nothing is done. By that point he's been doing it for decades and only become more powerful in Hollywood. The stuff that the NY Times reported on was all mid-90's to 2005 stuff. Vulture got him to talk about it a little in 2016:

But in general Louis never had to deny anything in public because it was assumed that if you went against Louis your career would be destroyed. Generally a good assumption since we've now had it confirmed in explicit detail that he's not even the worst or most powerful guy to do this.

There's not really a way to admit that you've been committing sex crimes for decades and keep working.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


I thought the Tig Notaro cutting ties stuff was more about him stealing her bits.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

I thought the Tig Notaro cutting ties stuff was more about him stealing her bits.

Serio? Jesus. He's claimed on Opie and Anthony that Dennis Leary stole the basics for his rear end in a top hat song from CK.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

I thought the Tig Notaro cutting ties stuff was more about him stealing her bits.

Tig severed tied with Louis after he probably did something to her as well, and as it became more mathematically certain that his behavior would be publicized.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tig-notaro-louis-ck-needs-to-handle-his-sexual-misconduct-rumors

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Sodomy Hussein posted:

Tig severed tied with Louis after he probably did something to her as well, and as it became more mathematically certain that his behavior would be publicized.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tig-notaro-louis-ck-needs-to-handle-his-sexual-misconduct-rumors

You’re right, the accusation came about a year and a half after she cut ties with him and was over him carbon copying a short film she made during his last SNL appearance.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Skwirl posted:

Serio? Jesus. He's claimed on Opie and Anthony that Dennis Leary stole the basics for his rear end in a top hat song from CK.

He stole it from Bill Hicks!

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001

The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics. Oh, and that stupid children's book 'The Little Prince,' ugh.
:krad:


Yams Fan

Deliberately going too far, losing, then and getting back the audience was always his thing.

Now that I think about it, getting the audience to applaud terrible things was also his thing.

There has to be some ‘risk it all’ element to his work / life / drive that somebody who cared could write about, if they wanted.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


I saw Louie live in Detroit in 2015. He opened his set with a tired “Detroit looks like it’s been bombed!” joke then later did several minutes in ‘black voice.’ The white suburban crowd loving loved it, and I realized that the “Louie is subversive for a point!” argument was untenable. I think some of the jokes at the peak of his career were self-aware and incisive, but his career was built on being a cruel rear end in a top hat on and off stage.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl



the CK set audio kind of reminds me of an article I read once about how modern day Gallagher is basically just him screaming about liberals and minorities while smashing fruit.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




https://twitter.com/MattTheGweat/status/1079979750045696001?s=19

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

the CK set audio kind of reminds me of an article I read once about how modern day Gallagher is basically just him screaming about liberals and minorities while smashing fruit.

This one?

https://www.thestranger.com/seattle/gallagher-is-a-paranoid-right-wing-watermelon-smashing-maniac/Content?oid=4357855

quote:

At last, after two hours of his tedious, hacky, right-wing manifesto, Gallagher gets to the part his (willing) hostages have been waiting for. It's time to smash some poo poo. There are the watermelons, there is some cottage cheese ("It's got the curds that blow up, just like on the news!"), there is sauerkraut and syrup and honey. Then Gallagher gets a tin pie plate. He opens a giant can of fruit cocktail and pours it in. He opens a can of some Asian vegetable—water chestnuts, maybe—and pours that in, too. "This is the China people and queers!!!" he screams and takes his sledgehammer to the thing with a fury that is no fun at all. Wet chunks of China people and queers fly everywhere. The hateful, bitter old man laughs. I cannot believe Bill Hicks is dead and this motherfucker is still touring.

Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jan 2, 2019

K. Waste
Feb 27, 2014

MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.



That’s comedy gold compared to Louis chud K

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



K. Waste posted:

That’s comedy gold compared to Louis chud K

i can't wait until the part of his rebrand where he starts going by Louis KKK

lets see how much he can ingratiate himself in the alt-right before they realize he's mexican

Goddamn Particle
Oct 10, 2013



Fan of Britches

Fart City posted:

Louis C.K.'s entire standup used to be based around "dude says awful poo poo, but under the auspice of recognizing and owning his awfulness in the process." This is "dude says awful poo poo because he's bitter as gently caress about being called out for being a scumbag."

That switch looks like the career equivalent of the Nice Guy dropping the act as soon as his target says no. The whole routine might as well be him yelling "Bitch, I never liked you anyway" and storming off to sulk.

Goddamn Particle fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 2, 2019

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
I am an autistic asshole that is incapable of understanding anything that isn't face value. Please consider my disability when reading my posts.

Even if Louis CK's comedy hasn't changed too much and he was always kind of an rear end in a top hat, there's a big difference now that we know he's, in fact, a complete loving jerk in real life. If you want to be funny by being an edgy prick, the audience has to be certain that you're not actually a giant prick to be able to laugh at it.

Now he's just an rear end in a top hat being an rear end in a top hat on stage, and that's not particularly funny.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy


DC Murderverse posted:

i can't wait until the part of his rebrand where he starts going by Louis KKK

lets see how much he can ingratiate himself in the alt-right before they realize he's mexican

They don't give a gently caress. Whiteness is an honorary status white supremacists bestow on anyone, even black people, who agree with their cultural aims. It works the same way in reverse; they rescind whiteness and heterosexuality from anyone who disagrees with them, accusing them of being crypto-Jews and trans without any evidence.

Louis CK is the dupe, not the audience.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:

They don't give a gently caress. Whiteness is an honorary status white supremacists bestow on anyone, even black people, who agree with their cultural aims. It works the same way in reverse; they rescind whiteness and heterosexuality from anyone who disagrees with them, accusing them of being crypto-Jews and trans without any evidence.

Louis CK is the dupe, not the audience.

Well yeah, they do that because "whiteness" is a total fabrication that was invented by the proto-white nationalists. It's a tool of oppression and is otherwise totally meaningless.

As for Louis CK, I'm pretty firmly now in the camp of "this is a guy who's always been an rear end in a top hat pretending to be a progressive guy pretending to be an rear end in a top hat". Maybe there's a slim chance he's trying to pivot to an Andy Kaufman thing where he's playing his cards close to his chest and doubling down on his "lovely clueless angry white guy" image, maybe "Louis CK" is a character akin to Tony Clifton or whatever, but I have my doubts now.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:

They don't give a gently caress. Whiteness is an honorary status white supremacists bestow on anyone, even black people, who agree with their cultural aims. It works the same way in reverse; they rescind whiteness and heterosexuality from anyone who disagrees with them, accusing them of being crypto-Jews and trans without any evidence.

Louis CK is the dupe, not the audience.

Yeah, they also kind of changed their rules when sites like 23 and Me starting popping up. So many of them were signing up and getting 8-15% African/Asian/latinex results.


Always reminded me of the Oz subplot where the one supremecist was shunned by the brotherhood after the dentist told him his gum transplant donor was black.

Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 2, 2019

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



King Vidiot posted:


As for Louis CK, I'm pretty firmly now in the camp of "this is a guy who's always been an rear end in a top hat pretending to be a progressive guy pretending to be an rear end in a top hat". Maybe there's a slim chance he's trying to pivot to an Andy Kaufman thing where he's playing his cards close to his chest and doubling down on his "lovely clueless angry white guy" image, maybe "Louis CK" is a character akin to Tony Clifton or whatever, but I have my doubts now.

quote:

The Trainwreck star revealed that when the comedian hosted SNL for the fourth time in April 2017, during Davidson’s first year on the show, Louis C.K. “told all the producers in front of me that all this kid does is smoke weed and he’s gonna smoke his career away.”

Davidson added that the American Hustle actor also told the show’s executive producer, Lorne Michaels, “that Pete smokes so much weed that it makes people uncomfortable.”

“Then five years later this mother—ker’s been locking doors and jerking off in front of people."

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/pete-davidson-claims-louis-c-k-tried-to-get-him-fired-from-snl/

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Louis C.K.: Kids dont get hosed up enough any more like they did back in my day.

Also Louis C.K.: You’re smoking too much weed, kid.

Louis C.K.: takes with one hand, gives vigorously and unrequested with another.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


PT6A posted:

Even if Louis CK's comedy hasn't changed too much and he was always kind of an rear end in a top hat, there's a big difference now that we know he's, in fact, a complete loving jerk in real life. If you want to be funny by being an edgy prick, the audience has to be certain that you're not actually a giant prick to be able to laugh at it.

Now he's just an rear end in a top hat being an rear end in a top hat on stage, and that's not particularly funny.

As a lesson in doing it well, Jimmy Carr has done spectacularly well for himself, through knowing exactly when to back off on a joke, by having a very clear sense of 'I'm right on the line, time to take a step back' before it gets nasty.

I mean, none of his comedy is particularly clever, but it is impressive how rarely a comedian who's whole thing is 'being edgy' actually goes too far with an audience.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.





I'm very distraught to find out there's drug use back stage at SNL. Thank God Belushi and Farley didn't live to see this shocking development in what I assume was a completely wholesome environment during their tenures.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009

BLORANGE


I've never kept that much of an eye on things, but didn't Stephen Colbert and Sarah Silverman actively campaign to maintain Louis' image in the face of the several charges that surfaced before the one that finally took him down? Have they spoken about it since? Powerful people covering for abusers and not suffering consequences from it risks the recent progress made being for naught as public/journalistic attention gets diverted.

I don't think it was on the level that Colbert should be fired or anything, but public contrition would do wonders. Something like a simple: "Louis CK was my friend and colleague. I didn't want to believe his conduct was as bad as it was and I thought he could change. I was wrong. I enabled his predation. I'm saying this now so that others don't make the same mistakes I did."

Silverman intervened also when Dan Harmon's misconduct came to light and there, at least, Harmon gave what seemed a thorough and honest recounting of the awful poo poo he did and an apology to the woman he had victimized. Hopefully what he said will actually influence those who listened to be more self-aware about their own patterns of behavior.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Cugel the Clever posted:

I've never kept that much of an eye on things, but didn't Stephen Colbert and Sarah Silverman actively campaign to maintain Louis' image in the face of the several charges that surfaced before the one that finally took him down? Have they spoken about it since? Powerful people covering for abusers and not suffering consequences from it risks the recent progress made being for naught as public/journalistic attention gets diverted.

I don't think it was on the level that Colbert should be fired or anything, but public contrition would do wonders. Something like a simple: "Louis CK was my friend and colleague. I didn't want to believe his conduct was as bad as it was and I thought he could change. I was wrong. I enabled his predation. I'm saying this now so that others don't make the same mistakes I did."

Silverman intervened also when Dan Harmon's misconduct came to light and there, at least, Harmon gave what seemed a thorough and honest recounting of the awful poo poo he did and an apology to the woman he had victimized. Hopefully what he said will actually influence those who listened to be more self-aware about their own patterns of behavior.

As far as I know Colbert commented on it briefly, called himself dumb for not knowing about it, and has since not touched the subject. Colbert and CK go back to the beginning of their careers. Colbert has spoken more meaningfully about Les Moonves on this topic.

Silverman more or less went "I had a sexual relationship with Louis that involved the stuff other people are describing and was OK with it" on Howard Stern's show and later apologized for that.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
#ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!


She had this statement too, which has a little bit of "it's complicated" but doesn't come anywhere close to support if you ask me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WKFDqxiL80

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



enki42 posted:

She had this statement too, which has a little bit of "it's complicated" but doesn't come anywhere close to support if you ask me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WKFDqxiL80

It is a weird video.

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



Cugel the Clever posted:

Have they spoken about it since?

Sarah Silverman: Louis C.K. Masturbated “In Front of Me” with Consent
https://decider.com/2018/10/22/sarah-silverman-louis-ck-masturbated-consensual/


Strange that the article mentions him being mainly apolitical in earlier years. I remember him roasting US presidents, US political families and UK royalty with vigor in his 1992 special. He even had statues of politicians up on stage and was walking up to each of them and screaming at them before smashing stuff with the sledgehammer.

K. Waste
Feb 27, 2014

MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.


Zogo posted:

Strange that the article mentions him being mainly apolitical in earlier years. I remember him roasting US presidents, US political families and UK royalty with vigor in his 1992 special. He even had statues of politicians up on stage and was walking up to each of them and screaming at them before smashing stuff with the sledgehammer.

Well, yeah. An apolitical person is just a reactionary.

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



Kevin Spacey Seen in Public for First Time in Over a Year After Being Charged with Sexual Assault
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kevin-spacey-seen-public-first-233643762.html

Brazilian ‘healer’ losing celeb following amid sex abuse claims
https://pagesix.com/2018/12/16/brazilian-healer-losing-celeb-following-amid-sex-abuse-claims/

K. Waste posted:

Well, yeah. An apolitical person is just a reactionary.

Can you elaborate on where those two terms diverge and converge?

Here's the thing I remember seeing many years back: https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/327694/gallagher_we_need_a_hero
Are the first six minutes apolitical?

STAC Goat posted:

To me I'm less having revelations about him and more about myself. Maybe he was always kind of this way and I was just a shittier person than I was 5 years ago? Maybe I'm growing and he isn't? As a guy I kind of think that's the biggest part of the MeToo movement. It isn't really about punishing individual guys who cross huge loving lines we all agree are there, its about a whole lot of guys who didn't do that kind of stuff maybe realizing lines they didn't see before or re-evaluating past actions and maybe changing the culture?

Arnold Schwarzenegger says he feels bad about his past treatment of women: 'I stepped over the line several times'
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/arnold-schwarzenegger-says-feels-bad-past-treatment-women-stepped-line-several-times-000410225.html

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


I'm not going to read that, but yes you did, Mr. Secret Family.

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Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl



Zogo posted:

Can you elaborate on where those two terms diverge and converge?

To say you are apolitical is functionally identical to saying that you are fine with the status quo and the massive amounts of reactionary terror that is a part of it, because you don't give enough of a poo poo to try and fix it.

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