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DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



K. Waste posted:

Some dude at my temp job this fall said I reminded him of lil dicky and that really bummed me out

if you are a guy with a fuller face and shaggy hair you pretty much have to shave every day lest you get told you look like Ed Sheeran so i understand your pain

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DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


Gaga pulling the track just seems a bit of too little too late at this point. Or she should at least replace it with the superior Christina duet. Either way, while I appreciate her statement on the issue and at least trying to explain where she was coming from at the time; his history was still well-known. His pissing on an underage girl became a pop-culture gag that collectively I guess just got laughed off.

He's synonymous with his crimes in the way that Chris Brown is and I don't think there's any excuse for anyone who decides to work with them.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012



https://twitter.com/vulture/status/1083788428460863488

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Haha gently caress you Janeane.

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


Destroy Gen X along with the Boomers.

Crackbone
May 23, 2003

Vlaada is my co-pilot.



“Internalized misogyny, order for one!”

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012



quote:

Then the subject of C.K. entered the discussion. “Leave Louis C.K. alone. Enough with that. And again, there are so many issues we gotta be motivated on. He’s been my friend — and I stand by that — he’s been my friend since 1985, and I think he has suffered,” she said. “And when he performs at the Comedy Cellar and people get all irate, if nothing else, care about his daughters. If nothing else — if you can find no compassion for him, which I think you should — think about how his daughters, who hear all of this stuff, feel. Why don’t you leave him alone for them if you’re so women-empowering?”

quote:

Cause you don’t understand what it is like to be a public pariah, cause it’s not happened to you. You don’t understand what it’s like to have people in the street yell things"
[another host says "But he chose to be a public person, and then he chose to take advantage of that."]

"Also, I don’t think you know the full story … and nobody talks onstage in their stand-up more than him [about] everything he’s ever done throughout that whole time. I don’t want to get caught up in this, because clearly you take a strong position on this, and it doesn’t win me any friends. This is like talking about Israel. But I do believe when you’re a friend with someone, and if you think that they have suffered — I don’t believe in kicking a person when they’re down."

quote:

Garofalo goes on to note that “there’ll be nothing but vitriol coming at me about this, and it’s so easy to get mad at these things and then lose sight of other things that impact our lives.” When the hosts again note that they can juggle multiple issues at once, Garofalo tells them that C.K. has “paid heavily, heavily, and his family has paid heavily.” When the hosts take issue with C.K. performing at comedy clubs like the Cellar, Garofalo says, “Oh my God. Do you know how much offensive material goes on at the Comedy Cellar? You know what? If you don’t want to listen to him, get up and leave the room. You are acting like Mussolini has walked into the room, and it is not. This is a human being.”

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
#ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!


If your only qualification for who you feel comfortable supporting is "is a human being", then you could make the same argument about Mussolini.

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



Maybe Louis CK will suffer the same fate as Mussolini

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


sponges posted:

Maybe Louis CK will suffer the same fate as Mussolini

Rescued from the Gran Sasso Hotel by Otto Skorzeny?

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



porfiria posted:

Rescued from the Gran Sasso Hotel by Otto Skorzeny?

You had to look that up, didn’t you?

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




Weird that she would defend Louis, but friends are friends regardless of sex weirdity I guess. Also, didn't Garofalo used to be like the go-to target for right wing hacks in the 90s tho right? Her being a vaguely liberal outspoken woman, etc. Maybe some target sympathy there idk

I'm not excusing anything, just trying to think why should say these dumb things.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



“You don’t know what it’s LIKE to become a pariah because you sexually assaulted women and started making racist jokes instead of apologizing! It’s so stressful!”

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


sponges posted:

You had to look that up, didn’t you?

*Closes eyes* I couldn’t remember the name of the hotel.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009


I don’t know how someone can be so tonedeaf. And it sounds like she and others are already trying to gaslight people by pretending that people are upset about Louis C.K’s offensive sets rather than the fact that he’s a sexual harassing perv, which as far as any of us know is one thing the other comedians at the Comedy Cellar are not, regardless of how offensive their comedy is. Which is one reason why I think it’s really better to just say nothing about how offensive and mean-spirited C.K.’s latest material is. He would love to characterize his critics as just pearl-clutching “snowflakes” upset about his comedy rather than the things he’s done.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




Yeah there's a real annoying tendency to switch the focus to "oh, all his jokes were always offensive" as if context and direction of kicks dont matter.

Goddamn Particle
Oct 10, 2013



Fan of Britches

Krankenstyle posted:

Weird that she would defend Louis, but friends are friends regardless of sex weirdity I guess. Also, didn't Garofalo used to be like the go-to target for right wing hacks in the 90s tho right? Her being a vaguely liberal outspoken woman, etc. Maybe some target sympathy there idk

I'm not excusing anything, just trying to think why should say these dumb things.

Part of the Not Like Other GirlsTM playbook is to think of yourself as tougher and stronger than other women because you can go through the same stuff as them without feeling like a victim. And if you can choose to be strong, they must be choosing to be weak, because the alternative for both of you is not having a choice at all.

It's telling that his defenders keep rewriting the narrative so it's closer to his version of events than his victims'. Lots of his defenders (and a few articles) assume that because he confessed to something, his confession was truthful and they're treating it as the definitive account of what he did. Note that they all focus on scenarios where he's alone with someone and asks if he can whip it out, but avoid the stories of him predemitatedly tricking people into walking in on him wanking. They favor stories where the woman has relatively more control.

Reading through his non-apology, he states he always asked for consent, but not if the women gave it. Lots of responses brush this off and assume "asked first" meant "got a yes." If there's any chance of someone sueing it makes sense to technically tell the truth but lead people to the wrong conclusion. He and his supporters are milking the hell out of the clueless male bumbler stereotype - count how many times the word "mistake" crops up in any article defending him. His actions were and are calculated; the only mistakes are about what he can get away with and how to do so.

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


Goddamn Particle posted:

Reading through his non-apology, he states he always asked for consent, but not if the women gave it. Lots of responses brush this off and assume "asked first" meant "got a yes." If there's any chance of someone sueing it makes sense to technically tell the truth but lead people to the wrong conclusion. He and his supporters are milking the hell out of the clueless male bumbler stereotype - count how many times the word "mistake" crops up in any article defending him. His actions were and are calculated; the only mistakes are about what he can get away with and how to do so.

I've been looking for a way to properly characterize this phenomenon of 'feigned helplessness' I've been seeing, thank you. Having read articles like this pre-MeToo Atlantic piece that clarifies Louis' brilliance in regards to crafting a public image and engaging with fans in exactly the way he wants to be perceived, needless to say the past year or so of watching this guy re-calibrate and react accordingly has been a wild ride. The guy is seriously an innovator, changing the game on how an artist can distribute and profit from their work. Politicians could have taken some serious notes from Louis on how to present oneself to the world in a way that's humble, sincerely personable and yet highly intellectual.

Anytime a defender comes out of the woodwork to downplay his actions as that of someone who just didn't know any better, it tells me they either didn't really know him, they're hopelessly deluded, or knowingly nefarious in their circling of the wagons.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




god yeah its hard for a lot of people everyone to distinguish public/actual persona. I still catch myself sometimes.

Also yeah, thats a great point, he's not a dummy. He's way too intelligent for anyone to can play it off as goodhearted fumbles.

Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jan 12, 2019

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Goddamn Particle posted:

Part of the Not Like Other GirlsTM playbook is to think of yourself as tougher and stronger than other women because you can go through the same stuff as them without feeling like a victim. And if you can choose to be strong, they must be choosing to be weak, because the alternative for both of you is not having a choice at all.

It's telling that his defenders keep rewriting the narrative so it's closer to his version of events than his victims'. Lots of his defenders (and a few articles) assume that because he confessed to something, his confession was truthful and they're treating it as the definitive account of what he did. Note that they all focus on scenarios where he's alone with someone and asks if he can whip it out, but avoid the stories of him predemitatedly tricking people into walking in on him wanking. They favor stories where the woman has relatively more control.

Reading through his non-apology, he states he always asked for consent, but not if the women gave it. Lots of responses brush this off and assume "asked first" meant "got a yes." If there's any chance of someone sueing it makes sense to technically tell the truth but lead people to the wrong conclusion. He and his supporters are milking the hell out of the clueless male bumbler stereotype - count how many times the word "mistake" crops up in any article defending him. His actions were and are calculated; the only mistakes are about what he can get away with and how to do so.

The issue of consent also doesn't take into account that not every "yes" is a "yes" that the person would have made otherwise. Louis was one of the most wealthy and powerful comedians in the world at the time this occurred, and refusing his advances or trying to alert the world that this guy is a sex pest would have almost inevitably resulted in him and his allies in Hollywood burying the story and ensuring that his victim would never work again. It's not true consent when you're under duress.

And it's not like this is just a suspicion of what could have happened! He admitted when the story first came out that he abused his power to silence anyone who tried to blow the whistle, and his manager Dave Becky admitted as well to helping him!

chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 12, 2019

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

Louis CK 10 years ago was not the millionaire comedy mogul he is today, ten years ago he had a couple lovely writing credits and his HBO special was the biggest content release he was proud of. Conflating who he was then with who he is now is a big part of why this discussion is so lovely.

Criminal Minded
Jan 4, 2005

Spring break forever


Somebody earlier was saying they wanted to believe the best in Alex Winter:

https://twitter.com/winter/status/1084190019743637505?s=21

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


Bust Rodd posted:

Louis CK 10 years ago was not the millionaire comedy mogul he is today, ten years ago he had a couple lovely writing credits and his HBO special was the biggest content release he was proud of. Conflating who he was then with who he is now is a big part of why this discussion is so lovely.

we're specifically citing incidents that showcase his level of intelligence between the time he got big and before metoo.

you raise a point that I hear a lot though, and imo is a bit disingenuous. He committed the acts in question, masturbating in front of people under circumstances of dubious consent, arguably when he was still green in the industry and unaware of the power dynamics in play. Whether someone can still be considered "guilty" years later of transgressions like that, when they didn't "know better" is still within a grey area as far as the court of public opinion goes.

What really sinks his ship though, is his continual denial and denigration of his accusers, and their subsequent career destruction, which was still occurring long past the point where it's been established he "knew better". They were denied any kind of catharsis during that decade where Louis CK became a millionaire comedy mogul and household name.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Bust Rodd posted:

Louis CK 10 years ago was not the millionaire comedy mogul he is today, ten years ago he had a couple lovely writing credits and his HBO special was the biggest content release he was proud of. Conflating who he was then with who he is now is a big part of why this discussion is so lovely.
The problem is that you're conflating fame and fortune with power.

Twenty years ago, Louis CK was a director who had a film shown at Sundance and a successful stand-up comedian who was close friends with Chris Rock.He definitely had a lot of power in the circles he traveled in.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Criminal Minded posted:

Somebody earlier was saying they wanted to believe the best in Alex Winter:

https://twitter.com/winter/status/1084190019743637505?s=21

Alex Winter: Confirmed Cool Dude

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Whew, couldn't handle it if Bill & Ted had to break up.

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

God Hole posted:

we're specifically citing incidents that showcase his level of intelligence between the time he got big and before metoo.

you raise a point that I hear a lot though, and imo is a bit disingenuous. He committed the acts in question, masturbating in front of people under circumstances of dubious consent, arguably when he was still green in the industry and unaware of the power dynamics in play. Whether someone can still be considered "guilty" years later of transgressions like that, when they didn't "know better" is still within a grey area as far as the court of public opinion goes.

What really sinks his ship though, is his continual denial and denigration of his accusers, and their subsequent career destruction, which was still occurring long past the point where it's been established he "knew better". They were denied any kind of catharsis during that decade where Louis CK became a millionaire comedy mogul and household name.

I really dislike this post because it seems to accurately describe what the situation is. And I'm still a huge fan. Or I was, whichever.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



I don't remember if it was posted in this thread, or even if it falls under this one, but The Rock came out and said that the whole "Generation Snowflake" interview was 100% fabricated.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Timeless Appeal posted:

The problem is that you're conflating fame and fortune with power.

Twenty years ago, Louis CK was a director who had a film shown at Sundance and a successful stand-up comedian who was close friends with Chris Rock.He definitely had a lot of power in the circles he traveled in.

Also Conan O'Brien, Dana Carvey, a bunch of important comedians. He might not have been able to get you a comedy writing job, but he could definitely introduce you to someone who could.

Skwirl fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 13, 2019

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



And Louis and his manager both admitted to using their influence to silence stories and damage his victims' careers when the news first came out, so this idea that he was somehow a nobody who could never do that is just baffling to me.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009


chitoryu12 posted:

And Louis and his manager both admitted to using their influence to silence stories and damage his victims' careers when the news first came out, so this idea that he was somehow a nobody who could never do that is just baffling to me.

And of course the most damning thing about this fact is that it shows intent: Louis was not some bumbler who didn’t realize how upsetting his actions were. He knew drat well how upsetting his actions were, him or his people doing things to keep his victims silent proves it. But then in his official apology he acted like he hadn’t known, and many people seem to have swallowed that explanation. It’s a little infuriating.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

There's also that thing that because some rear end in a top hat recorded the bit he was working on recently and taken out of context which is some bullshit. He's known for really uncomfortable funny comedy, of course taking the parkland shooting bit out of context was gonna piss people off.

Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jan 13, 2019

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Fargin Icehole posted:

Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

There's also that thing that because some rear end in a top hat recorded the bit he was working on recently and taken out of context which is some bullshit. He's known for really uncomfortable funny comedy, of course taking the parkland shooting bit out of context was gonna piss people off.

You can listen to the whole set from beginning to end. What the hell does “out of context” mean to you?

Das Boo
Jun 9, 2011

There was a GHOST here. It's gone now.





Ted Bundy worked at a suicide hotline! He saved a two year-end from drowning! Won't somebody consider that?! :qq:

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Fargin Icehole posted:

Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

There's also that thing that because some rear end in a top hat recorded the bit he was working on recently and taken out of context which is some bullshit. He's known for really uncomfortable funny comedy, of course taking the parkland shooting bit out of context was gonna piss people off.



https://twitter.com/dril/status/831805955402776576

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Fargin Icehole posted:

Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

There's also that thing that because some rear end in a top hat recorded the bit he was working on recently and taken out of context which is some bullshit. He's known for really uncomfortable funny comedy, of course taking the parkland shooting bit out of context was gonna piss people off.

Who's stopping you from saying this?

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


Fargin Icehole posted:

Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

There's also that thing that because some rear end in a top hat recorded the bit he was working on recently and taken out of context which is some bullshit. He's known for really uncomfortable funny comedy, of course taking the parkland shooting bit out of context was gonna piss people off.

What the gently caress?

peer
Jan 17, 2004

this is not what I wanted

Fargin Icehole posted:

Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

wow thanks we're lucky someone was brave enough to come in here and say this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Who's stopping you from saying this?

T-th-the SJW’s!!!!!!!! God they’re so evil!! hiding everywhere every time I say something off color! Gosh! Such an oppressive group!

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Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009


Fargin Icehole posted:

Can i just say that Louis C.K is still funny though

There's also that thing that because some rear end in a top hat recorded the bit he was working on recently and taken out of context which is some bullshit. He's known for really uncomfortable funny comedy, of course taking the parkland shooting bit out of context was gonna piss people off.

Well, like I said, I think it’s better to just ignore how nasty his recent comedy is, cause I think it just muddies the waters as to why he’s a shithead.

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