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Deadguy2322
Dec 16, 2017

Greatness Awaits


enki42 posted:

I really don't get the obsession with requiring that all friends and coworkers publicly denounce sex pests. Like yes, of course if you knew something I think you have a responsibility to say something, but beyond that I don't know how we benefit from criticizing people for saying things like it's complicated. (note this is totally different from actually supporting said pests - I think Janeane Garofalo deserves some criticism.)

As much as rapists and predators are terrible people, there’s a real witch-hunt feeling the way people go after their friends and family when these things go public that I find really distasteful and kind of disturbing. You can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep, true, but nobody knows anybody else 100%.

I read the article about the Apt Pupil set incident, and I couldn’t finish it. I know how that kid felt, and it was too much to take.

Deadguy2322 fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 24, 2019

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Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Sodomy Hussein posted:

In any case, it was really obvious watching the movie why Sacha Baron Cohen dropped out.

I lost 100% desire to see that movie when I heard all the lies and bullshit they put into it.

I mean there's taking a few liberties and then there's banging someone's life to conform to a cliche fiction arc

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Deadguy2322 posted:

As much as rapists and predators are terrible people, there’s a real witch-hunt feeling the way people go after their friends and family when these things go public that I find really distasteful and kind of disturbing. You can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep, true, but nobody knows anybody else 100%.

I read the article about the Apt Pupil set incident, and I couldn’t finish it. I know how that kid felt, and it was too much to take.

I saw that movie as a child myself. It was dark.

From Stephen King's real weird period.

I don't even know what the set incident was and almost certainly don't want to.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


enki42 posted:

I really don't get the obsession with requiring that all friends and coworkers publicly denounce sex pests. Like yes, of course if you knew something I think you have a responsibility to say something, but beyond that I don't know how we benefit from criticizing people for saying things like it's complicated. (note this is totally different from actually supporting said pests - I think Janeane Garofalo deserves some criticism.)

It's not about requiring public denouncement for its own sake, and in fact not even really about the individual morality of friends and coworkers, even -- it's that tacit acceptance and shying away from controversy is a big part of what allows them to keep doing what they do. The point is to eventually build a society where being a sexual abuser means you're shunned and ostracized, instead of one where the Weinsteins of the world decide who gets to make movies or find jobs.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Like Rami Malek doesn't have to immediately come out and parade a sign saying "BRYAN SINGER IS A RAPIST AND A POO POO HEAD", but when asked directly about what's going on with him it's obviously not great if he just sort of gives a non-committal shrug and changes the subject. Though I do understand that if he did start coming out against someone so powerful, it would be very easy for him to never work again.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

It's not about requiring public denouncement for its own sake, and in fact not even really about the individual morality of friends and coworkers, even -- it's that tacit acceptance and shying away from controversy is a big part of what allows them to keep doing what they do. The point is to eventually build a society where being a sexual abuser means you're shunned and ostracized, instead of one where the Weinsteins of the world decide who gets to make movies or find jobs.

If you’re good friends with a bad person its a hard thing to grapple with. I have a hard time being okay with my friends being mildy racist, transphobic and just more in the right. If my best friend was a sex pest I would be at a loss.

Stop asking these people things. It’s not our business to understand their POV.

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!


I don’t expect this movie to actually get made, but still, wtf

https://twitter.com/tatianasiegel27/status/1088562198740254721?s=21

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


CelticPredator posted:

If you’re good friends with a bad person its a hard thing to grapple with. I have a hard time being okay with my friends being mildy racist, transphobic and just more in the right. If my best friend was a sex pest I would be at a loss.

Stop asking these people things. It’s not our business to understand their POV.

My father was a Holocaust denier and a neo-nazi. I am not, largely because my peer group constantly gave me poo poo for it and demanded better of me until I had no choice but to become a better person. I am extremely lucky in that I was de-radicalized in a time before you could easily find support for any horrible opinion on the internet, and where the opinion of your real life community arguably had more force than it does now.

So no, I'm not going to stop asking people to make it hard to be evil. Not only would it be bad for society, it would be immensely hypocritical for me of all people to act otherwise. It wouldn't even be good for bad people, because without an impetus to change there's not much chance at genuine rehabilitation!

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 24, 2019

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋



I’m saying stop asking their friends what they think about their bad friends. It’s complicated and not worth the time.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012



Barry Convex posted:

I don’t expect this movie to actually get made, but still, wtf

https://twitter.com/tatianasiegel27/status/1088562198740254721?s=21

https://twitter.com/AaronCouch/status/1088562335759777793

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



Gillette's controversial ad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2rIgsPlJd0

Sucrose posted:

It’s like this guy on reddit, who, in a thread about Harvey Weinstein, said “Well I worked on one of Harvey Weinstein’s movies once and he was cool and brought us crewpeople some pizza. He didn’t seen creepy at all.”

It’s like, no poo poo Harvey Weinstein wasn’t going to seem or act creepy towards you, you weren’t a young woman. You weren’t the kind of person the creep targeted. Your interaction with him and if you thought he seemed like a good guy or not means absolutely nothing in the context of the allegations against him; he didn’t act like that to people like you.

Ok, that’s veering a little off topic, but Brad Bird’s positive interactions with John Lasseter are just as irrelevant.

Pizza bribery goes a long way.

Kevin Spacey has been delivering pizzas to Daily Mail reporters to curry favor
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kevin-spacey-photographed-smiling-wearing-235940864.html

And not gourmet pizzas either. Despite a net worth ~100 million USD he's bringing Domino's.

Krankenstyle posted:

Weird that she would defend Louis, but friends are friends regardless of sex weirdity I guess. Also, didn't Garofalo used to be like the go-to target for right wing hacks in the 90s tho right? Her being a vaguely liberal outspoken woman, etc. Maybe some target sympathy there idk

I'm not excusing anything, just trying to think why should say these dumb things.

Yes, she used to go on Fox News occasionally (frequently around the Iraq invasion fifteen years back) and Bill O'Reilly would call her a "pinhead" and other stuff like that for not being 100% behind the US invasion while rightists fist-pumped in unison. This went on for years.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


CelticPredator posted:

I’m saying stop asking their friends what they think about their bad friends. It’s complicated and not worth the time.

I don't think that's true at all. It's definitely complicated, but the conversation about the weird difficult space where you have social ties to a bad person and care about their well-being but don't want to condone their actions is a valuable one to have, there are good and bad ways to go about doing that, and little to gain from sweeping it under the rug. If someone doesn't want to talk about it with a microphone in their face, fine, but there's no reason for the rest of us to completely avoid the conversation.

Goddamn Particle
Oct 10, 2013



Fan of Britches

Have any former friends of industry predators been interviewed? Because someone who changed their mind and is willing to talk publicly could be a valuable resource in dealing with this. And if the interviews with ex-friends are publicized more than still-loyal ones, it could normalize the idea of being wrong about trusting someone and coming to terms with that fact. Predators groom communities as well as victims after all. They don't even have to straight-up say "Rami Malek/Pauley Perrette/etc are either evil allies or manipulated victims", they could just drown them out and make them less relevant than the people who switched sides.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011




This guy of course has his own sexual harassment suit going on.

https://deadline.com/2017/05/avi-lerner-sexual-harassment-lawsuit-millennium-films-nu-image-gender-bias-1202083560/

https://twitter.com/alisonwillmore/status/1088569104578080769

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!


https://twitter.com/bravearcanine/status/1088575918858211330?s=21

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



syscall girl posted:

I saw that movie as a child myself. It was dark.

From Stephen King's real weird period.

I don't even know what the set incident was and almost certainly don't want to.

The irony is if I remember right the movie was really, really toned down from King's story. Like I think the shower scene in question actually replaced a rape fantasy.

Deadguy2322
Dec 16, 2017

Greatness Awaits


STAC Goat posted:

The irony is if I remember right the movie was really, really toned down from King's story. Like I think the shower scene in question actually replaced a rape fantasy.

The book was probably the most extreme thing King ever wrote, and honestly would be unfilmable in any kind of accurate adaptation. I have read almost all of his stuff up to 1991 or so, and that’s the one thing I would never re-read. The movie was so loosely based on the book that it really only shared the title, loose concept and character names. I doubt anyone but King could have gotten a major publisher to print it, and nobody would these days.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



CelticPredator posted:

I’m saying stop asking their friends what they think about their bad friends. It’s complicated and not worth the time.

It's really not at all, and it's not even the worst scenario, lgbtq kids with trans/homophobic parents or young minorities with parents or other family members who are bigoted against other people of color (including those of their own nationality) deal with that poo poo all the time, and would live in constant abuse if they just sat there and took and didn't talk about it because it's "too complicated and not worth their time."

Dialogue is how we move forward. Burying your head in the sand and not speaking up when someone you care about is saying terrible poo poo is not.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 25, 2019

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


I chatted about this topic with a friend and she pointed out that putting someone close to an abuser on the spot like that can both be harmful to the person in question (even if they genuinely didn't know and/or give a unobjectionable response when asked) and, moreover, that trying to directly break down the social environment that an abuser operates in can lead to retaliation against the victim.

I don't think it changes my position, but I'm sorry if I was too flippant or inconsiderate about what's at stake.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012



GLAAD has stripped Bohemian Rhapsody of its best original film nominee at their annual GLAAD Media Awards in the wake of the new accusations against Bryan Singer

GLAAD statement to Variety posted:

In light of the latest allegations against director Bryan Singer, GLAAD has made the difficult decision to remove ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ from contention for a GLAAD Media Award in the Outstanding Film – Wide Release category this year. This week’s story in The Atlantic documenting unspeakable harms endured by young men and teenage boys brought to light a reality that cannot be ignored or even tacitly rewarded.

Singer’s response to The Atlantic story wrongfully used ‘homophobia’ to deflect from sexual assault allegations and GLAAD urges the media and the industry at large to not gloss over the fact that survivors of sexual assault should be put first.

The team that worked so hard on ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ as well as the legacy of Freddie Mercury deserve so much more than to be tainted in this way. ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ brought the story of LGBTQ icon Freddie Mercury to audiences around the world, many of whom never saw an out and proud lead character in a film or saw the impact of HIV and AIDS in fair and accurate ways. The impact of the film is undeniable. We believe, however, that we must send a clear and unequivocal message to LGBTQ youth and all survivors of sexual assault that GLAAD and our community will stand with survivors and will not be silent when it comes to protecting them from those who would do them harm/

Other films that involve Singer now or in the future should take note of the backlash to The Atlantic story and other previous allegations. The industry cannot let those who perpetuate harms against anyone – especially vulnerable young people – go unnoticed or unchecked any longer.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





Yikes Brian May

https://consequenceofsound.net/2019/01/queen-brian-may-bryan-singer/

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



Love the idea that the net effect of Bohemian Rhapsody has been to make him seem more like a jackass

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


What is up with Americans confusing legal concepts for things that are...not that?

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


porfiria posted:

What is up with Americans confusing legal concepts for things that are...not that?

Law is basically applied ethics, and the foundational document for all of American law is also very much a statement of our national ethos, for better or worse.

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001

The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics. Oh, and that stupid children's book 'The Little Prince,' ugh.
:krad:


Yams Fan

If a gay man can objectify women enough to deliver an ‘accurate’ Red Sonja movie then, uh good business decision I guess?

He’s crapped out some good films, but without McQuarrie writing or a great male cast (or both) there ain’t much there.

Has there ever been a great, or even notable female performance in anything he’s directed? Minor X-men is all I got.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


Remulak posted:

If a gay man can objectify women enough to deliver an ‘accurate’ Red Sonja movie then, uh good business decision I guess?

He’s crapped out some good films, but without McQuarrie writing or a great male cast (or both) there ain’t much there.

Has there ever been a great, or even notable female performance in anything he’s directed? Minor X-men is all I got.

the Usual Suspects was aggressively empty of women.

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Snowman_McK posted:

the Usual Suspects was aggressively empty of women.

Gabriel Byrne's love interest/lawyer

uuh

yep

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


It's crazy how Singer keeps dodging these bullets like he's in the loving Matrix. His RED SONJA gig is fine (though I doubt it'll actually get made, but not for those reasons), he has the support of his producer who has his own issues (its the same guy who groped Terry Crews) and Brian May just came out in support. He's been doing this from the beginning and it slides off him.

All that is crazy enough, but Spacey got brought down by a lot less.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



DrVenkman posted:

All that is crazy enough, but Spacey got brought down by a lot less.

Accusations like these are probably a lot more damaging to actors than behind-the-scenes people. You can't watch a Kevin Spacey film without being reminded of his crimes, but how many people even know Bohemian Rhapsody was directed by Singer?

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Samuel Clemens posted:

Accusations like these are probably a lot more damaging to actors than behind-the-scenes people. You can't watch a Kevin Spacey film without being reminded of his crimes, but how many people even know Bohemian Rhapsody was directed by Singer?

That's plausible, but less optimistic than speculating that the man just has nuclear-grade dirt on everyone in Hollywood (and hoping he takes them with him whenever he finally goes down).

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

That's plausible, but less optimistic than speculating that the man just has nuclear-grade dirt on everyone in Hollywood (and hoping he takes them with him whenever he finally goes down).

He’s also sheparded one of Fox’s most profitable franchises for nearly two decades now. I mean X-Men has spawned multiple sequels, a soft reboot, tv shows... he’s a producer on a significant amount of it. He’s made serious money for the studios.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Fart City posted:

He’s also sheparded one of Fox’s most profitable franchises for nearly two decades now. I mean X-Men has spawned multiple sequels, a soft reboot, tv shows... he’s a producer on a significant amount of it. He’s made serious money for the studios.

That's what it is, he's just a very powerful person because he took something that was a very questionable property at the time, X-men, and turned it into a cash cow that's been making money for the studio for a long time now. Kevin Spacey had a popular Netflix show but there's just no comparison to the kind of money Singer has made over the years for his corporate masters.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


He either has friends in very high places or dirt on someone in a very high place.


Sex Pest former DC editor Eddie Berganza allegedly had a very good friend in the Time Warner upper execs which protected him for over a decade.

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Samuel Clemens posted:

Accusations like these are probably a lot more damaging to actors than behind-the-scenes people. You can't watch a Kevin Spacey film without being reminded of his crimes, but how many people even know Bohemian Rhapsody was directed by Singer?

It's funny that this all, sort of, goes back to Weinstein who wasn't the first or the last just a first big splash in the pool. And most filmgoers couldn't tell you what he did other than have a private casting couch.

Horrible Taste
Oct 12, 2012


porfiria posted:

What is up with Americans confusing legal concepts for things that are...not that?

Brian May is British.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible





Brian backtracks ... sort of:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jan/25/brian-may-bryan-singer-queen?CMP=twt_gu

davidspackage
May 16, 2007



Nap Ghost

DrVenkman posted:

he has the support of his producer who has his own issues (its the same guy who groped Terry Crews)

I'm not blaming you for confusing a few of these sleazebags, but said producer (slash sex pest) pressured Terry to stop making noise about his groping by a different producer.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Given how easily he skates, with documented protection by producers, Bryan Singer is walking talking proof that there is a Hollywood child sex ring.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Sodomy Hussein posted:

Given how easily he skates, with documented protection by producers, Bryan Singer is walking talking proof that there is a Hollywood child sex ring.

He’s gonna be like the American Jimmy Savile when he pops off.

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Deadguy2322
Dec 16, 2017

Greatness Awaits


Fart City posted:

He’s gonna be like the American Jimmy Savile when he pops off.

That could have been phrased much better.

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