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Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Skwirl posted:

The first thing that pops into my head is how the cops will arrest some dumb teen for marijuana possession and then use them as an undercover agent to try and bust dealers and poo poo.

I kinda think she got caught trying to buy a baby.

She has to do it to get her brother off the hook for defrauding all those casinos that time they vacationed in vegas.

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edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


Vagabundo posted:

Hey, anyone interested in a career in effects work with Weta Workshops? Hope you're interested in getting creeped on too!


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12342642


Peter Jackson can go eat a gently caress, that piece of poo poo Tory.

Remember how Weta Workshops is pretty lovely?

So it turns out, Weta Digital, who does digital effects work is also pretty loving horrific to work at. This hit the news last night in New Zealand.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new...-and-harassment

Malkina_
May 13, 2020

by Fluffdaddy


Critics enjoyed the pedophile Netflix film. Shocking!



https://twitter.com/bellasflairk2/status/1304074468709597185?s=21

:barf:

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

I don't know why I clicked on that clip, maybe because we have a lot of ballet in my family and we are all trained dancers, but it's so immediately gross and weird. maybe 4 seconds in before reflexively closing my browser.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser




Does the film does in fact do that?

I haven't seen it but the summary I read is it is written and directed by a black woman and is about how this girl wants to join this lewd dance team because of the negative effects of objectification of young black women online. I doubt the kid actually starts performing those dances.

I'm sure the reviews would mention something like that.

Malkina_
May 13, 2020

by Fluffdaddy


Oh and thereís this



https://twitter.com/sirajahashmi/status/1304098956947992576?s=21

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser




Well Jesus fuckin Christ, guess I was wrong, glad I didn't fuckin watch that Twitter clip!

Why the gently caress are critics not mentioning that poo poo?

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007



John Wick of Dogs posted:

Well Jesus fuckin Christ, guess I was wrong, glad I didn't fuckin watch that Twitter clip!

Why the gently caress are critics not mentioning that poo poo?

bc the screen grab is from the user generated IMDB parents guide which is being gamed.

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/cuties

if you want a more accurate overview.

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001

The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics. Oh, and that stupid children's book 'The Little Prince,' ugh.
:krad:


Yams Fan

Stop loving listening to people arguing in bad faith. Itís not that hard.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



:stonk:

So, umm, I guess Netflix's creepy poster was a more accurate representation of the movie than the original poster. It sounds like it's basically Sparkle Motion: The Movie... which we kind of all knew already.

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


Coming from a French director of all places on earth too

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




King Vidiot posted:

:stonk:

So, umm, I guess Netflix's creepy poster was a more accurate representation of the movie than the original poster. It sounds like it's basically Sparkle Motion: The Movie... which we kind of all knew already.

Or it isn't.

I haven't seen the movie but the review posted a few posts before yours paints a very different picture than the other poo poo

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/cuties

and I've read other poo poo from them and they tend to be very good about pointing out objectionable material without getting loving dire about it.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Professorjuggalo posted:

Coming from a French director of all places on earth too

Senegalese director.

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


Skwirl posted:

Senegalese director.

Born and raised in Paris her whole life

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007



I've actually seen the movie and the dance scene is provocative and decontexualised isn't great but the thing about movies is they provide context. Its basically framed as a horror show.

It's certainly worth a debate if this kind of thing is effective in a movie but we're way beyond being able to have that debate in good faith because of how many weirdos have latched onto this to produce culture war content.

It feels beyond asinine to frame the director and the production of this movie as some intentional choice to create pedophilia. It is incredibly critical of the sexualisation of girls as long as you're not consuming it in supercuts of the "worst" moments produced by bad faith outrage merchants. If anything those cuts are basically going to be far more disseminated by creeps than having to scrub the movie as whole for those parts.

You could probably make a cut of similar if not worse from Disney channel shows but they're never critical of what they're depicting.

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/01/cuties-review-netflix-sundance-maimouna-doucure-1202202924/ this is a fairly critical review written before all the outrage controversy thats prob worth a read if you want to get more into it.

Like it's an edgy French arthouse movie. Its not for everyone and I think Netflix hosed up with how they presented and announced it. I think there's a lot more long term cultural sexualisation of teens on tiktok with millions of them lipsyncing and dancing to incredibly graphic music.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Professorjuggalo posted:

Born and raised in Paris her whole life

Raised by Senegalese immigrant parents making a movie partially about being raised in Paris by Senegalese immigrants.

Or does Martin Scorsese's Italian heritage not play into his film making either?

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


I feel like it falls into the same problem of 12 years a slave where by showing everything in graphic detail it almost turns into exploitation. half the people seriously looking for a nuanced take on these subjects will be turned off from using the same imagery as the stuff itís trying to satire if it makes sense?

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Professorjuggalo posted:

I feel like it falls into the same problem of 12 years a slave where by showing everything in graphic detail it almost turns into exploitation. half the people seriously looking for a nuanced take on these subjects will be turned off from using the same imagery as the stuff itís trying to satire if it makes sense?

Were there people claiming 12 Years a Slave glorified slavery?

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


Skwirl posted:

Raised by Senegalese immigrant parents making a movie partially about being raised in Paris by Senegalese immigrants.

Or does Martin Scorsese's Italian heritage not play into his film making either?

I donít think this is the best place for discussions on race and generational immigrant identity but all of Scorseseís movies are about Italian-AMERICANS and itís not making the point you want

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Hic puer est




My main take away from all this is that Netflix really needs a better warning system for their films, for content that's potentially emotionally triggering and also stuff that could trigger physical conditions.

I just watched 1BR recently, and while it's a great movie it also contains a scene that could potentially cause an epileptic seizure, and that's really something potentially viewers should be warned about ahead of time.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





Stranger Things S1 also ends with a 5 minute strobe sequence. Iím not epileptic it would stun me if no one had a seizure from it. Better Content warnings would be a really useful feature.

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007



Professorjuggalo posted:

I feel like it falls into the same problem of 12 years a slave where by showing everything in graphic detail it almost turns into exploitation. half the people seriously looking for a nuanced take on these subjects will be turned off from using the same imagery as the stuff itís trying to satire if it makes sense?

Depiction isn't endorsement I think is the argument a lot of people make and I do think its a pretty valid one in most instances. Unfortunately its one that people just run head first into like a brick wall which kind of cuts off any further discussion in most places.

Slavery movies are a good example of something where I see a good argument that there isn't much of a benefit of seeing Black people being whipped or tortured yet again. The imagery can be very exploitative and at this point what is the "educational benefit" when we routinely see videos of Black people actually dying on social media. Do we need another movie about slavery being Bad in the 1800s?

Sexual violence I think is another example that could be used. Like the rape scene in Irreversible is just put on like tube sites without context. At that point it can't be for anything other than titillation. Depraved poo poo but is that the movie's fault? I think its arguable but to me it says more about the audience consuming those clipped out scenes than Noe.

Coralie Fargeat's Revenge featured a rape but kept it off camera and you only saw the reactions of a character in another room. I thought that was a pretty good way of getting actually depicting it on camera. Maybe it would have been better for Mignonnes to have tried something similar and focussed on the audience reactions to the final dance scene. But then also the sex scenes in The Tale I found incredibly confrontational and powerful (although they explicitly said they used a body double at the start of the film) and I don't think the movie would have had as much as a punch if it happened off camera.

Its a tough line to draw and I think there's certainly a conversation to be had about it. I just don't think it should be dictated by conspiracy theorists who think Tom Hanks is huffing a chemical made out of children's fear or 14 year old Steven Universe fans who don't have the developed brains to understand the alphabet soup of social justice terms they've consumed on tumblr.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




I think you seriously underestimate the number of white people who still think slavery wasn't that bad.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
I am an autistic asshole that is incapable of understanding anything that isn't face value. Please consider my disability when reading my posts.

As soon as I saw who were the loudest voices promoting #CancelNetflix, I became suspicious and it seems like those suspicions were well-founded.

Reasonably, I think it's important to draw a distinction between actual child pornography and "things which a pedophile could spank it to," because god knows the latter category includes essentially anything with children in it. The descriptions of some of the scenes do disturb me, and I'm not sure it's a film I would want to watch, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid work of art with a point, created in such a way that none of the children involved were actually abused in any way.

Minors and young adults in the film industry have long been exploited, except the abuse happens off-camera. Ultimately, that is a larger concern for me than a production which was probably very heavily supervised to ensure nothing abusive was actually occurring.

At least as concerns this film, I would like to see criticism from the point of view of a sexual abuse survivors network or something, rather than the culture-warrior Usual Suspects, before I condemn the film outright. Common sense dictates that an award-winning film directed by a woman and distributed by a large multinational company is not going to be some kind of secret pedophile conspiracy to abuse young girls, regardless of the content of any scenes taken out of context.

That being said, given the content, if you're at all tempted to watch the film just for the sake of titillation, you should yeet yourself straight off the nearest cliff.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




A lot of it really is that people are desperate for a victory, to draw blood and take scalps, and that takes precedence over any sort of priority, so they usually end up going after female and minority filmmakers and actors since they're easier targets than the people protected by billion-dollar media empires.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Unless the thumbnail and blurb that got passed around was fake I'm gonna say Netflix advertised it in a really skeevy way and it's not that surprising.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
I am an autistic asshole that is incapable of understanding anything that isn't face value. Please consider my disability when reading my posts.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

A lot of it really is that people are desperate for a victory, to draw blood and take scalps, and that takes precedence over any sort of priority, so they usually end up going after female and minority filmmakers and actors since they're easier targets than the people protected by billion-dollar media empires.

There's this, and also upon further thought, a huge part of it is the idea that the male viewer is somehow the intended or default viewer. What if, and follow me on this one here, a coming-of-age film featuring girls and directed by a woman, drawing from influences in her life, is not really made for men at all? That's not to say that films have to be gender-specific by any means, but inasmuch as art is a form of communication, what if the intended audience for this film, which is in essence a commentary on issues that primarily affect women, is... women?

What if they, at no point during the creation of this film, gave any consideration to what would give men's dingles a tingle? And, yeah, from what I've heard, Netflix really, really badly hosed up the marketing.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Yeah, like genuinely I think the dance scene is a bit much even for the point it's going for. And I think it's fair to raise an eyebrow at what's being asked of the actresses despite intent. But also it's not like people were up in arms about a kid holding a vibrator or smelling anal beads in Good Boys. It speaks to an issue where the hosed up inner lives of boys are fair game because it's relatable, but because girls are by the very nature of their femininity assumed to be sexualized, a scene like that is not seen as what it reveals about the characters, but how it exists in terms of the male gaze.

And honestly anyone who's looking at that scene and assuming it's meant to be titillating needs to reassess. It doesn't mean there is not a discussion to be had, but the hyperbolic pearl clutching is ridiculous.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


I think the movie was always going to inspire moral panic with people but Netflix made it 10x worse with the fun marketing angle. It's a dramatic coming of age story in a world where social media and tiktok are a massive influence on prepubescent girls and many will seek to emulate the overt sexual behavior because its perceived as "cool". With the main girl it seems to say girls denied self expression or raised in repressive environments will do the same only because they want some control over their own life and body.

The dance scene is pretty extreme, but are they just copying popular dance "moves" that are a staple of music videos and tiktok dances? It's all so overtly sexual but like the girls don't even understand that its sexual. I think that at least sends the message that its not sexual behavior on the part of the girls just learned behavior from media consumption they aren't fully understanding.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Unless the thumbnail and blurb that got passed around was fake I'm gonna say Netflix advertised it in a really skeevy way and it's not that surprising.

Yeah, but people increasingly aren't even bothering trying to blame Netflix and going straight for the director.

Feels like a lot of the people who talk about the 'male gaze' and male-centric media have become the evil they set out to fight. If they hadn't from the start.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


The nature of streaming itself and its interface means that, no matter how good the algorithm is, a decent chunk of people who either aren't interested in the film or are horrified by it (rightly or wrongly) will be exposed to it and have it suggested to them. It's one thing to know the 'controversial foreign film' section exists in the video store, it's another to have the staff suggesting a film from it to you.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Yeah, but people increasingly aren't even bothering trying to blame Netflix and going straight for the director.

Feels like a lot of the people who talk about the 'male gaze' and male-centric media have become the evil they set out to fight. If they hadn't from the start.

Speaking for myself, I instantly understood the concept of the male gaze since, as a young man who discovered self examination and reflection later in life than i should have, I recognised it as exactly how I saw the world. There's probably a little bit of projection in some of the reactions.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Hic puer est




LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Unless the thumbnail and blurb that got passed around was fake I'm gonna say Netflix advertised it in a really skeevy way and it's not that surprising.

Yeah, Netflix intentionally did things that would make people outraged and then, well, people got outraged. I put the blame for this whole thing on them, frankly.

Snowman_McK posted:

The nature of streaming itself and its interface means that, no matter how good the algorithm is, a decent chunk of people who either aren't interested in the film or are horrified by it (rightly or wrongly) will be exposed to it and have it suggested to them. It's one thing to know the 'controversial foreign film' section exists in the video store, it's another to have the staff suggesting a film from it to you.

Again, this is why Netflix needs some sort of warning system on their movies, as to opposed to what they have now which is nothing.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Here's a good example during the dance scene that explains the point of the movie

Judges smiling and watching, crowd cheering and clapping along


Women trying to covering her young daughter's eyes


It's pretty clear there are two wildly different reactions to the dance, and that in itself is the problem. The mother doesn't want her daughter exposed to that kind of sexual behavior but the entire crowd and judges are there to cheer it on and give it value/legitimacy. You can't see it in a still shot but the red headphones guy is smiling and nodding his head along pretty enthusiastically.

Netflix hosed up, probably either due to laziness or the person in charge missing the point of the film, because that first ad for the movie is 100% different then the tone. There's little to no happiness or positivity about anything in this film.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Sep 11, 2020

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


I think anyone sneering about the 'Netflix pedo movie' makes a good case for being ignored. Why am I going to listen to people pissing about a movie they haven't seen?

Vir
Dec 14, 2007

Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?


DrVenkman posted:

Why am I going to listen to people pissing about a movie they haven't seen?
How can you legitimately criticize the TV series Interspecies Reviewers' suitability as entertainment if you don't watch it fully and at least touch your own genitals a little bit while watching it?

If you think something looks like pedophilic titilation, you have to be a pedophile yourself. QED. Sincerely, Scott Mendelson of Forbes.


Watching this moral panic makes me wonder if the reviewers were given a different version of the film or something. It also seems to be flipped on its head as to who the regular people are that would be outraged at Scarlett Johansson showing too much cleavage in a movie or something.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


Critics are used to consuming films as art, often purposefully watching poo poo that can make them uncomfortable, and critically evaluating the work on its own merits. The average person watches one or two entertaining tentpole movies a year and does a surface-level, literal reading of everything they see, because critical thinking is a learned skill. The situation with chuds, q nuts, and conservative wine moms is far worse than that. Hope nobody tells these jokers about films like Mysterious Skin, Lolita, Thirteen, Innocence, or Happiness.

Vir
Dec 14, 2007

Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?


Many professional movie critics seem to write quite surface level analyses, and some of them even manage to describe things which aren't even in the movie, or are just lazily repeating their peers. There are exceptions to that, but the race for clicks seems to dumb down mainstream movie criticism to the point that a random goon or video essayist can sound more intelligent than a columnist in Forbes or the New Yorker.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Skwirl posted:

I think you seriously underestimate the number of white people who still think slavery wasn't that bad.

Yeah if anything most antebellum movies make it seem not so bad. Birth of a Nation (the one made by the rapist) was one of the few I've seen that depicted it as disgusting as it was.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

DrVenkman posted:

I think anyone sneering about the 'Netflix pedo movie' makes a good case for being ignored. Why am I going to listen to people pissing about a movie they haven't seen?

Because the advertisements for the film went out of their way to show sexualized little girls. I donít need to watch a movie to understand how creepy that poster is or how uncomfortable it made me feel.

Critics are increasingly coming to terms with the fact that their job is mostly superfluous. I donít watch that many movies, but in game reviews, there games you simply cannot effectively review in a week because the game is designed to be played over a longer period of time, for example. Critics have to approach things in a completely different way than consumers because they donít have the luxury of time to sit with themselves.

Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 11, 2020

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Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


Roman Polanski made Tess and itís a really well thought out youth/sex positive movie (probably better than this but I donít wanna watch it). Roman Polanski is also a convicted pedophile.

A lot of the Ďwow youíre just seeing what you wanna seeí reminds me of the takes anime fans use to defend that garbage schlock, and while nothing here is quite like shitshow there has to be something to be said about the whole Ďmessage is the mediaíthing

Maybe ban child actors? Irresistible was a great example of materials not supporting the messages/themes but I feel like thatís different because kids canít give consent to the things theyíre acting out on screen the same way an adult can . All these kids are gonna be followed around by creeps on social media like Disney starlets (not even getting into stuff like the countdown on Dakota fanning/Olsen twins hitting 18) and lord knows how the movie production affected them too.

That good boy movie raised a lot of these problems I had with all this but that was deflected with a lot of Ďitís just a coming of age storyí excuses. both of these movies were made for adults and while adults should be barred from this exploring type of stuff I feel like thereís a better way to convey these themes/messages to adults and kids alike without having kids twerk on film?

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