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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



pentyne posted:

The closest analogy I can think of its the curb stomp scene in American History X. If someone just posted that clip and said that was what the movie represented it would be called horrifically racist in an unforgivable way. That the entire point of the movie is to say such things like that scene are abhorrent and dangerous isn't going to matter to the people who both love the scene unironically and who hate the scene no matter what context its in.

On the other hand, American History X is usually brought up as an example of a movie with muddled message at best.

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Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010


Zogo posted:

Kevin Spacey Accused of Sexually Assaulting Two 14-Year-Old Boys in New Lawsuit
https://www.thewrap.com/kevin-spacey-accused-sexual-assault-14-year-old-boys/

Wait two weeks and we'll see if they also get in "car accidents."

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

On the other hand, American History X is usually brought up as an example of a movie with muddled message at best.

Yeah, I'd say its heart is in the right place, but yeah, it fucks up the messaging at the best of times.

Patrick Spens
Jul 21, 2006

"Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"


Pillbug

I like American History X, but it was very popular with White Supremacists back in the day.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

AceOfFlames posted:

If it wasn’t for that whole “Big Mouth got renewed for multiple seasons at once while Tuca and Bertie got canned after 1 season and being utterly buried by the Netflix Algorithm” debacle, I wonder if people would even talk about Big Mouth at all.

Let me preface this with “I am not trying to be funny”

What if Big Mouth got renewed for 4 seasons because it instantly became the most accessible piece of pedofile media in the world?

I can dig up the old AOL post if people want, but this sort of thing has happened before. Tiny Toons was a very popular and successful show about children versions of popular looney tunes, and it was a TV show right around the birth of the internet becoming mainstream.

The voice actors started going to conventions and basically immediately realized that their fans were actually all just adult men who had questions about whether or not Babs was 16... it’s why they cancelled Tiny Toons and set out to make Animaniacs, a show in which the characters were specifically designed to be as featureless as possible to keep people from being creepy about them.

I know it’s a very Tinfoil hat sounding thing, and I really don’t think the Big Mouth team set out to do this AT ALL, but I can easily see a situation where Netflix execs look at the numbers and go “wow people just love that John Mulaney” and never give it a second thought that there might be something specific about this show that really asks some questions.

Nothing gets multiple seasons renewed up front at Netflix if it doesn’t do ABSURD numbers.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Ahh yes the show with this joke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmAC9Qu908

was hyper worried about people sexualizing their characters.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean I know that people will make porn of anything but Big Mouth's characters are all quite deliberately grotesque.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




I can't believe those perverts are jerking it to our children's cartoon. We need to make a new cartoon that's impossible to get horny to.

Oh here's some new characters for the show



Boywhiz88
Sep 11, 2005

floating 26" off da ground. BURR!


You don’t think there’s a difference between a “sexy (adult) nurse” and a teen bunny?

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


Skwirl posted:

I can't believe those perverts are jerking it to our children's cartoon. We need to make a new cartoon that's impossible to get horny to.

Oh here's some new characters for the show



When she shows up, they go "HELLLOOOOO NURSE!" She's literally designed to be the sexy nurse. What's the problem here

For everything else ,nothing is safe. I mean, poo poo, people sexualize toasters and airplanes.

Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 13, 2020

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser




Tuca and Bertie is an expensive looking show and basically tells a complete story in its one season, where Big mouth looks cheap as hell and is basically a sitcom, so I never really got what people were surprised about in terms of renewal.

The Cameo
Jan 20, 2005




I don't think anyone would call the internet "mainstream" in 1990 to 1992, either. It was maybe the beginning of people talking about it being a thing, but it wouldn't hit the mainstream until, at absolute earliest, 1994 (when Prodigy introduced a WWW client to their service and Amazon was founded) and more likely 1995 when Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows 95 (or even 1996, when AOL abandoned the "per-hour" charges and switched to a monthly bill).

Besides, people who wanted to get off to underage cartoons were cranking it to Disney cartoons for decades before any of this (or even before anime), and it's weird that people pretend that this stuff only popped up in the 90s. Snow White, Cinderella, Alice, Aurora, they're all teenagers at oldest in their depictions and I can assure you there were people getting off to lewd drawings of them through things like tijuana bibles in the times that those movies were still in theaters. It's like people going "furries came from Lola Bunny!"; sure, maybe a generation of them were awakened by that character, but the first real meteorite of people getting off to bipedal talking mascot characters traces back to at least Disney's Robin Hood, and probably all the way back to Disney's first "funny animals" cartoons, since there are tijuana bibles of Mickey and Minnie and Donald and Goofy all getting it on.

The internet didn't really invent any porn, just made it much, much, much more accessible.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Bust Rodd posted:

Let me preface this with “I am not trying to be funny”

What if Big Mouth got renewed for 4 seasons because it instantly became the most accessible piece of pedofile media in the world?

I can dig up the old AOL post if people want, but this sort of thing has happened before. Tiny Toons was a very popular and successful show about children versions of popular looney tunes, and it was a TV show right around the birth of the internet becoming mainstream.

The voice actors started going to conventions and basically immediately realized that their fans were actually all just adult men who had questions about whether or not Babs was 16... it’s why they cancelled Tiny Toons and set out to make Animaniacs, a show in which the characters were specifically designed to be as featureless as possible to keep people from being creepy about them.

I know it’s a very Tinfoil hat sounding thing, and I really don’t think the Big Mouth team set out to do this AT ALL, but I can easily see a situation where Netflix execs look at the numbers and go “wow people just love that John Mulaney” and never give it a second thought that there might be something specific about this show that really asks some questions.

Nothing gets multiple seasons renewed up front at Netflix if it doesn’t do ABSURD numbers.

you know this is a literal QAnon talking point, right?

e: like, it's not just "tinfoil hat sounding," you are literally saying the same things as one of the worst and most harmful groups of tinfoil hatters

Boywhiz88
Sep 11, 2005

floating 26" off da ground. BURR!


WeedlordGoku69 posted:

you know this is a literal QAnon talking point, right?

e: like, it's not just "tinfoil hat sounding," you are literally saying the same things as one of the worst and most harmful groups of tinfoil hatters

What part is the QAnon talking point?

mycot
Oct 23, 2014


Hell Gem

Big Mouth just has a ridiculously big advertising push. It's inescapable on social media every time a new season comes out, and every time people respond with "get this poo poo off my feed" (not because of the kid stuff, but because it's hideous).

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008



Boywhiz88 posted:

What part is the QAnon talking point?

I don't know if it's QAnon, but the idea that Netflix's programming decisions are driven by the preferences of a secret horde of pedophiles is pretty loving nuts to just throw out there. Like, sure, maybe Big Mouth is like Lazytown in that it's media that pedophiles latched on to it and shared it around amongst themselves on the Dark Web or whatever, but there's literally no evidence whatsoever that that's a number sufficient to move the dial just compared to fans of John Mulaney. Or literally any other demographic analysis. I mean, the only way this works is if you think that pedophilia is a massively popular paraphilia. Like, look at the original post:

Bust Rodd posted:

What if Big Mouth got renewed for 4 seasons because it instantly became the most accessible piece of pedofile media in the world?

...

I know it's a very Tinfoil hat sounding thing, and I really don't think the Big Mouth team set out to do this AT ALL, but I can easily see a situation where Netflix execs look at the numbers and go "wow people just love that John Mulaney" and never give it a second thought that there might be something specific about this show that really asks some questions.

Nothing gets multiple seasons renewed up front at Netflix if it doesn't do ABSURD numbers.

Purely on conjecture that the show is popular, Bust Rodd is just asking questions if it might be due to pedophile appeal being sufficient to drive "ABSURD numbers." He can easily see a situation where there are so many pedophiles out there that their support for a show is big enough that Netflix notices and caters to. Again, this is a wild rear end claim that makes a massive allegation about the nature of the world that's backed by nothing more than a heavily promoted John Mulaney show being popular enough to get 4 seasons. Presumably popular—Netflix doesn't give out viewer numbers, so the reason it got 4 seasons is literally just as plausible that Mulaney and the Netflix CEO go to the same Adrenochrome parties. It's not tinfoil hattery, it's just wild allegations and conjecture.

There is one show that we know is disproportionately popular with pedophiles, though. Star Trek! Is pedo support what made Picard a success and Discovery a dud? If they're such a potent demographic, should we perhaps suspect every popular media being secretly driven by pedophile interests?

It just makes a mockery of any nuanced discussion of sexuality in the media when someone can throw out an allegation that there's a vast pedophile population that Netflix et al. are overtly or unwittingly catering to with literally no evidence.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

Matilda weighing in
https://twitter.com/marawilson/status/1304883825789423616?s=21

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




I'd also like some evidence that Tiny Tunes was canceled because the writers and actors were disgusted by the amount of pedophiles watching it.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

Coal Jobs for the Coal God



mycot posted:

Big Mouth just has a ridiculously big advertising push. It's inescapable on social media every time a new season comes out, and every time people respond with "get this poo poo off my feed" (not because of the kid stuff, but because it's hideous).

The nick kroll dad conspiracy gets deeper and deeper

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

Skwirl posted:

I'd also like some evidence that Tiny Tunes was canceled because the writers and actors were disgusted by the amount of pedophiles watching it.

Here ya go

http://web.archive.org/web/20030514145917/www.crushyiffdestroy.com/show-article.php?file=falk

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!



It doesn't seem like that supports anything you're saying, because her entire point is pedophiles will sexualize any media containing children and there are million+ views vids on youtube of young girls jumping on trampolines and poo poo.

There's literally no basis for a good faith argument against something being "oh, well what if pedophiles like it?"


Did you actually read that? No where does it state they cancelled the show because of pedophiles, in fact a more likely reason was the female VA being stalked and repeatedly harassed by that guy.

You don't seem either capable or willing to engage any of the actual issues you just hover around the whole myth of a masive global conspiracy of pedos secretly helping enough other through mass media proliferation.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Sep 13, 2020

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Precambrian posted:

I don't know if it's QAnon, but the idea that Netflix's programming decisions are driven by the preferences of a secret horde of pedophiles is pretty loving nuts to just throw out there. Like, sure, maybe Big Mouth is like Lazytown in that it's media that pedophiles latched on to it and shared it around amongst themselves on the Dark Web or whatever, but there's literally no evidence whatsoever that that's a number sufficient to move the dial just compared to fans of John Mulaney. Or literally any other demographic analysis. I mean, the only way this works is if you think that pedophilia is a massively popular paraphilia. Like, look at the original post:


Purely on conjecture that the show is popular, Bust Rodd is just asking questions if it might be due to pedophile appeal being sufficient to drive "ABSURD numbers." He can easily see a situation where there are so many pedophiles out there that their support for a show is big enough that Netflix notices and caters to. Again, this is a wild rear end claim that makes a massive allegation about the nature of the world that's backed by nothing more than a heavily promoted John Mulaney show being popular enough to get 4 seasons. Presumably popular—Netflix doesn't give out viewer numbers, so the reason it got 4 seasons is literally just as plausible that Mulaney and the Netflix CEO go to the same Adrenochrome parties. It's not tinfoil hattery, it's just wild allegations and conjecture.

There is one show that we know is disproportionately popular with pedophiles, though. Star Trek! Is pedo support what made Picard a success and Discovery a dud? If they're such a potent demographic, should we perhaps suspect every popular media being secretly driven by pedophile interests?

It just makes a mockery of any nuanced discussion of sexuality in the media when someone can throw out an allegation that there's a vast pedophile population that Netflix et al. are overtly or unwittingly catering to with literally no evidence.

this, but also, QAnon nutters specifically think Big Mouth is an example of HOLLYWEIRD PEDOPHILES secretly sending messages to other pedophiles. like, that's a thing i've encountered before.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Colonel, there's no exposed breasts in these dark souls

EDIT: Yeah this derail sucks. I don't think we need TV about sexy kids.

Given what we know about how YouTube works, from the mouths of some of the people who created it, it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that Netflix's algorithm can do a similar thing. Here's a podcast about how the YouTube algorithm funnels people towards Alt right bullshit, which then has the tendency to push those people towards weird, pedo adjacent video: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/how-stuff-works/behind-the-bastards/e/62045942

Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Sep 13, 2020

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Once a researcher on a TV show I worked on walked into a room and, entirely unprompted, told me that he was going to gently caress me. And everyone in the room laughed. Years later, an acquaintance of mine had to leave the same show because he routinely humiliated and harassed her until she was gone. As far as I know, he still works on that show.

Anyway, this is all to say that this thread about the harassment and abuse that many in Hollywood face becoming about repackaged Q conspiracies and why Tiny Toons was canceled kinda sucks. I get why Cuties was being discussed, but it feels like everyone said their piece.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Bust Rodd posted:

I never said they cancelled the show because of pedofiles, I said

“The voice actors started going to conventions and basically immediately realized that their fans were actually all just adult men who had questions about whether or not Babs was 16... “ because I didn’t remember the actual guys name...

which is what that post is about. My point is there have been shows in the past that inadvertently become the lynchpin of some perverted culture despite the intentions of the creators being fundamentally pure.

It makes more sense to me than millions of people just loving the physically disgusting art style, but I also mea culpa’d at the start for pointing out that it does sound like a conspiracy theory. I’m not trying to push a pizzagate or anything silly, but I don’t know anyone who admits to liking or watching Big Mouth IRL either and there’s no way I’m gonna bite that bullet.

quote:

Not much is known about these "stalker fans". They were furries, that much is obvious. The fact that they may very well have been the first furries most people in the animation industry encountered was a recipe for long-term catastrophe. They obviously didn't represent the majority of Tiny Toons fans; they didn't even represent the majority of furrydumb at the time.

You're literally JAQing about a pedophile conspiracy regarding media popularity and just making poo poo up. Take this poo poo to cspam or wherever.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Sep 13, 2020

Starks
Sep 24, 2006



This whole discussion and that Mara Wilson thread really just cement my belief that we shouldn’t use children in movies at all. You don’t get to skirt labour laws for “art” when that art is part of a 130 billion dollar industry with a history of abuse.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy


Ok I'm very out of the loop and I'm afraid to look it up but what is Big Mouth and why is it pedo

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Phi230 posted:

what is Big Mouth

Netflix show. TV-MA rated comedy about teenagers going through puberty, puberty being gross, and puberty manifesting as gross-looking monsters voiced by stand-up comedians.

quote:

why is it pedo

it's very deliberately not. all the human characters look like this:



what human being on planet earth would want to gently caress that abomination?

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


This loving sucks and you’re all are doing the same pearl clutching on both sides that should be against the whole drat ‘no politics’ poo poo. Half of these posts are just “YOU can’t talk about this now cause you’re being reactionary”. I did better discourse by myself over two pages than all of you combined come on. Either say something of substance or move on cause you’re all just arguing about different things and getting mad about it

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Hic puer est




Phi230 posted:

Ok I'm very out of the loop and I'm afraid to look it up but what is Big Mouth and why is it pedo

It's a South Park style comedy cartoon show on Netflix.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Professorjuggalo posted:

arglebargle people won't join my insane loving Pizzagate crusade

suck my entire rear end

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


WeedlordGoku69 posted:

suck my entire rear end

lmfao ok future victor salva eat poo poo

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy


So then whats the big deal about Big Mouth other than it being edgy. Is there some bad poo poo in it or what. Why are people talking about it

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



Bust Rodd posted:

EDIT: Yeah this derail sucks. I don't think we need TV about sexy kids.

Given what we know about how YouTube works, from the mouths of some of the people who created it, it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that Netflix's algorithm can do a similar thing. Here's a podcast about how the YouTube algorithm funnels people towards Alt right bullshit, which then has the tendency to push those people towards weird, pedo adjacent video: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/how-stuff-works/behind-the-bastards/e/62045942

yeah it's sort of odd that something like Netflix picking up this one movie has everyone up in arms when Youtube and Facebook have had a terrible time trying to get child abusers and creeps off their sites. Facebook is probably happy with people pushing this conspiracy theory because it gets the attention away from them, but you know that Facebook will never actually become a part of this conspiracy as long as it's the primary way for it to spread. Can't burn down the plane while you're still inside it and it's over the ocean.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Professorjuggalo posted:

I did better discourse by myself over two pages than all of you combined come on

Professorjuggalo posted:

lmfao ok future victor salva eat poo poo

Yeah real strong discourse vibes here you accusing someone of being a pedophile for disagreeing with you.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

'I did better discourse' is the most pathetic thing for a human being to say as some kind of slam

Professorjuggalo
Oct 22, 2019

by Cyrano4747


pentyne posted:

Yeah real strong discourse vibes here you accusing someone of being a pedophile for disagreeing with you.

Considering he just said I was on a pizzagate crusade and told me to suck his rear end I think the response is warranted

sexpig by night posted:

'I did better discourse' is the most pathetic thing for a human being to say as some kind of slam

It wasn’t a slam though? You guys are arguing in circles about big mouth and internet porn

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


pentyne posted:

Yeah real strong discourse vibes here you accusing someone of being a pedophile for disagreeing with you.

That really should be a straight up ban.

Pasketti
Nov 8, 2017

lick lick lick

its just probably not a good idea to pay scantily clad children to dance sexually on video for a mass audience even if the reason is art and a positive message
maybe there's a line somewhere between what it is and isn't acceptable to depict for actors under a certain age without it being "pearl clutching"

as others have said, the scene is shot much more gratuitously than stuff it's been compared to like in Donnie Darko or Little Miss sunshine.
the choreography alone doesn't even compare.

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pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Professorjuggalo posted:

Considering he just said I was on a pizzagate crusade and told me to suck his rear end I think the response is warranted

Are you a child? Then I don't think the words "suck my rear end" aimed at you are grounds to accuse someone of being a pedophile.

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