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Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


It really doesn't help that Spacey transformed into a cartoon villain overnight with those weird loving videos. He acted the part of a villain.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




There's a LOT of factors to keep in mind. Given how Hollywood works I imagine there's a lot of cases of 'are they going to rock the boat?' in mind, and yeah, a younger, woker fanbase probably contributes. Like with Joss Whedon, whose core fanbase are absolutely the people who are supposed to care about the poo poo he did.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Snowman_McK posted:

It really doesn't help that Spacey transformed into a cartoon villain overnight with those weird loving videos. He acted the part of a villain.

The way he casually implicated/threatenes the ROYAL FAMILY in one of them was truly one of the most insane things I e ever seen in my life. It’s enough to make anyone a conspiracy nut

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Skwirl posted:

Kevin Spacey is on the loving Epstein flight logs with Bill Clinton flying to Africa. What we know about him and what he actually did are two very, very different things and I think the reason he got caught was because he committed so many different horrible crimes he was basically just guaranteed to get caught for at least one of them

With Chris Tucker!

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




It's like, I think most people could probably figure out how to rob a bank and get away with it if they wanted too, once. You can't spend 20 years robbing banks 2-3 times a month and be guaranteed to get away with it every single time.

(Bank robbing is a metaphor for sex crimes)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Skwirl posted:

It's like, I think most people could probably figure out how to rob a bank and get away with it if they wanted too, once. You can't spend 20 years robbing banks 2-3 times a month and be guaranteed to get away with it every single time.

(Bank robbing is a metaphor for sex crimes)

This is actually oddly on point given a shitload of crimes are easy to get away with once if you wait for the perfect opportunity and do it just enough that they can't catch a pattern or even notice. Theft, embezzlement, etc. Thing is that the people who get caught are the ones who keep doing it.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Hic puer est




https://twitter.com/RhyeRhythm/status/1374105625362325511?s=20

So apparently Dan might not be guilty of grooming. Like, I dunno, the internet is hard place to get to the truth of things sometimes.

Just thought it might be good to throw this out there, unless it's wrong in which case I apologize for spreading misinformation. I have a very limited grasp on what's going on.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


Space Cadet Omoly posted:

https://twitter.com/RhyeRhythm/status/1374105625362325511?s=20

So apparently Dan might not be guilty of grooming. Like, I dunno, the internet is hard place to get to the truth of things sometimes.

Just thought it might be good to throw this out there, unless it's wrong in which case I apologize for spreading misinformation. I have a very limited grasp on what's going on.

In the case it is not wrong, I apologize for having spread misinformation since I brought it into this thread.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





So he ghosted someone.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Is this one of those situations where someone used abuse language like “gaslighting” to describe a totally normal relationship and try to make someone who was maybe just a jerk into a sexual predator?

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



I guess now, in light of new "evidence" it's entirely possible that the entire situation might've (might've) been that Dan wrote back to some fan when she was 17, didn't write to her for like 5 years because he's busy and she's a fan, then reconnected with her when she was 22 and then it went sexual. And even possibly didn't "ghost" as much as just "was extremely busy and is a person who gets a ton of correspondence constantly".

I'm not going to draw conclusions either way, we're literally down to he said/she said :shrug:

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Still shouldn't gently caress your fans.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Hic puer est




Bust Rodd posted:

Is this one of those situations where someone used abuse language like “gaslighting” to describe a totally normal relationship and try to make someone who was maybe just a jerk into a sexual predator?

It's actually weirder than that:

Apparently this whole thing started because there's a group of online Nazis who are still pissed about Jontron not being on the show anymore so they intentionally try to create rumors and allegations discrediting anyone associated with Game Grumps. So it's a bunch of right wing weirdos intentionally faking a case of sexual abuse because they're pissed about some let's players being "too woke" ("too woke" in this case means "not a Nazi")

Like I said, I have very limited information and was unaware of any Game Grumps drama until now, but the stuff I'm hearing has been pretty wild :

https://twitter.com/R_X_Queen/status/1373822528049778689?s=20

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



https://twitter.com/JonTronShow/status/1373754145497350146?s=20

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!




I was reading about this...but then the person who started the Twitter thread instead of accepting they might had been lied, decided to move goal posts and go "it's still grooming if there's an age gap between adults!!!" :cripes:

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



loving... at this point I'm half-expecting it to come to light that the video of Dan was something somebody paid Dan to make on Cameo and the rest was entirely fabricated.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Internet Nazis are pretty much cartoon supervillains in that they will go to absolutely ridiculous lengths to attempt to defame and harm their enemies on ridiculous grudges, despite being incredibly stupid and their plans basically hinging on expecting said enemies to be even more stupid and thus willing to fall for the most childish of ruses.

Which does sometimes work, mostly because twitchy internet folk and corporate suits are dumb as motherfuck.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Skwirl posted:

Kevin Spacey is on the loving Epstein flight logs with Bill Clinton flying to Africa. What we know about him and what he actually did are two very, very different things and I think the reason he got caught was because he committed so many different horrible crimes he was basically just guaranteed to get caught for at least one of them

Speaking of, Woody Allen was like, a close personal friend of Epstein.

WaywardWoodwose
May 19, 2008

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

It's actually weirder than that:

Apparently this whole thing started because there's a group of online Nazis who are still pissed about Jontron not being on the show anymore so they intentionally try to create rumors and allegations discrediting anyone associated with Game Grumps. So it's a bunch of right wing weirdos intentionally faking a case of sexual abuse because they're pissed about some let's players being "too woke" ("too woke" in this case means "not a Nazi")

Like I said, I have very limited information and was unaware of any Game Grumps drama until now, but the stuff I'm hearing has been pretty wild :

https://twitter.com/R_X_Queen/status/1373822528049778689?s=20

Racist fans upset that their boy was replaced with a jewish guy? Well i never!

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Space Cadet Omoly posted:

It's actually weirder than that:

Apparently this whole thing started because there's a group of online Nazis who are still pissed about Jontron not being on the show anymore so they intentionally try to create rumors and allegations discrediting anyone associated with Game Grumps. So it's a bunch of right wing weirdos intentionally faking a case of sexual abuse because they're pissed about some let's players being "too woke" ("too woke" in this case means "not a Nazi")

Like I said, I have very limited information and was unaware of any Game Grumps drama until now, but the stuff I'm hearing has been pretty wild :

https://twitter.com/R_X_Queen/status/1373822528049778689?s=20
no.

it was posted on that subreddit. that does not mean it 'came' from that subreddit.

and also, the only thing that person is rejecting is claims of pedophilia.

https://twitter.com/R_X_Queen/status/1373838328731217922

'the only thing 100% refutable is claims of pedophilia, which she did not make.'

being faux-woke is a great grift because you can be as much of a sexmonster as you want and if people call you out on it it instantly becomes a right-wing conspiracy theory because you're faux-woke, so how could you have ever done anything bad!?

https://twitter.com/stories_nice/status/1373830403446951940

and heres an accusation that, while vague, has ntohing to do with that subreddit or the original accusation

Endorph fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Mar 23, 2021

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

https://twitter.com/alicewetterlund/status/1373740682536394754

Costar on Silicon Valley for seasons 2 and 3 who has been open about how toxic the set was, especially Middleditch.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

Endorph posted:

no.

it was posted on that subreddit. that does not mean it 'came' from that subreddit.

and also, the only thing that person is rejecting is claims of pedophilia.

https://twitter.com/R_X_Queen/status/1373838328731217922

'the only thing 100% refutable is claims of pedophilia, which she did not make.'

being faux-woke is a great grift because you can be as much of a sexmonster as you want and if people call you out on it it instantly becomes a right-wing conspiracy theory because you're faux-woke, so how could you have ever done anything bad!?

https://twitter.com/stories_nice/status/1373830403446951940

and heres an accusation that, while vague, has ntohing to do with that subreddit or the original accusation

Yea people are tripping over themselves to play the 'wow yet another lying bitch trying to hurt an innocent man' game while ignoring that 'also I think he was talking with her when she was underage and poo poo and that's hosed' was just kinda one part of an overall 'this guy loves loving his fans who are like 20 years younger than him by getting all flirty and cute with them like it's a relationship and then ghosting them as soon as he gets his dick wet'. Like, it's not a literal felony no but it's a really skeevy way to behave when such a huge chunk of your fanbase is straight up kids and all. Like, if you found out some dude who had a kid's TV show back when we were kids liked loving women decades younger than him who were fans of him and who he treated like they were in a relationship until he got what he wanted, you'd go 'well that's a lovely way to treat people', right, even if it is good he's not diddling kids?

But Dan's a soft boy who makes funny dick jokes so people just make these wild rear end defenses like 'so see all the accusations were from these racists who just hate Dan...well okay nobody actually accused him of loving kids but he DIDN'T, so there'.

Also for context on that last tweet, that lady was literally Dan's personal assistant so if she's still saying 'nah gently caress this guy' I trust that source.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




I didn't realize this guy was 42 I assumed he was late 20s or something. How is any video game guy older than me.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

Groovelord Neato posted:

I didn't realize this guy was 42 I assumed he was late 20s or something. How is any video game guy older than me.

to be fair before this poo poo part of his charm was having not played a video game past the SNES era so he never exactly hid his video game boomer status but yea dude's creeping on women literally half his age which again is not illegal but is gross and dumb

aware of dog
Nov 14, 2016


thrawn527 posted:

https://twitter.com/alicewetterlund/status/1373740682536394754

Costar on Silicon Valley for seasons 2 and 3 who has been open about how toxic the set was, especially Middleditch.

Yeah she was also tweeting about Kumail Nanjiani and Zachary Woods being lovely too, though nothing specific.

She had good things to say about Jimmy O Yang though so that’s a relief

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Alright the guy being 42 definitely makes it way different.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Groovelord Neato posted:

I didn't realize this guy was 42 I assumed he was late 20s or something. How is any video game guy older than me.

It's been about 50 years since the home consoles became a thing, and some people never really left the hobby as they grew up. Whole lot of kids booted up Tetris 99 to find out there is an endless stream of unassuming grandmothers who have 30 years of stone cold loving menace carved into their bones as far as moving tetriminos goes, and proceeded to get schooled on the difference between potential ability and the merits of faster reflexes versus muscle memory and the perfection of ability.

Of course these are also Games For Children, which means that there is a high number of adults interacting with children. And when that comes to something like, say, fighting tournaments and the like? Where they interact in person?

Yeah, there is quite a bit of abuse behind the scenes. Or not so behind the scenes, as EVO getting blown up recently shows.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Internet Nazis are pretty much cartoon supervillains in that they will go to absolutely ridiculous lengths to attempt to defame and harm their enemies on ridiculous grudges, despite being incredibly stupid and their plans basically hinging on expecting said enemies to be even more stupid and thus willing to fall for the most childish of ruses.

Which does sometimes work, mostly because twitchy internet folk and corporate suits are dumb as motherfuck.

It worked with Roosterteeth a few months ago, though that was a different scenario. Some dude from an alt right forum tried catfishing a few of the people on the channel posing as a fan and ended up getting correspondence and photos from Ryan Hawley and Adam Kovac. The initial complaint was fake but it gave people that Hawley actually groomed and assaulted the courage to come forward. Something like 9 women came forward with evidence spanning a decade. Kovac was fired too when it came out some of the photos he sent the catfisher were of him jerking off of on co-workers work stations.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Alright the guy being 42 definitely makes it way different.

Very strange I've been a whole mess of tweets about it and that was left out.

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004

MAGA FAN #1


I remember when fans made up a "retraction" from the person accusing Armie Hammer of having cannibalistic fantasies and it almost went away until women he had publicly dated came out and said he had said similar things to them. That opened the floodgates to people detailing the stuff he'd DONE to people that was physically abusive.

Blood Nightmaster
Sep 6, 2011

“また遊んであげるわ!”


I suppose what makes the Dan controversy even more insidious is that despite being in his 40s nothing about him reads "this man is in his 40s" beyond his general lack of current video game knowledge, he very easily passes for somebody a good 10-15 years younger to the point that his real age coming up is often met with surprise. Which absolutely would help him in attempting to date 20+ years younger and it's skeevy as hell

We really need to address the cultural trend of "woke nice guy uses status to manipulate/abuse others" instead of just thinking in terms of how obvious it was somebody turned out to be terrible. Not addressing the nuances that go into how they're able to continue the grift means they'll keep finding success in it and red flags will just continue to go unnoticed.

I think about that brief period in my teens where an older male internet friend was absolutely gunning for the situation Dan was, with me--a minor that was a good 6-7 years younger--and am grateful I had a decent enough support system to understand that what was happening was a) wrong and that b) I wasn't in the wrong for leaving it, then I think about how many of these young women either didn't or currently don't have the same luxury. :sigh: Dudes need to be held accountable instead of just getting a slap on the wrist because even me leaving that situation before it got sexual was enough to give me trust issues for years. These are things that haunt you for literal decades afterwards even if nothing physical actually occurs, but in the case that it does? I can't begin to imagine what those women are going through

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



I mean, I don't see what's "skeevy" about just looking younger, or even acting younger, like I've had people tell me well into my 30's that I look like I'm in my early 20's. The key is to not get tempted into acting on it. When I was 30, I had a woman actually tell me she thought I was like 19. And that's dangerous, but that's not my fault. It's genetics, or just the fact that more and more people look younger in adulthood than they ever have in the past. It's all about how you handle it.

Dan is skeevy because he's a piece of poo poo who couldn't responsibly deal with everything he's been given. He lucked into fame and clout and used it to hurt at least one other person, that we know of.

WaywardWoodwose
May 19, 2008

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

has anyone watched the play yet? i gave it a quick google, but it led down a rabbit hole i wasn't able to go down at work.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



King Vidiot posted:

I mean, I don't see what's "skeevy" about just looking younger, or even acting younger, like I've had people tell me well into my 30's that I look like I'm in my early 20's. The key is to not get tempted into acting on it. When I was 30, I had a woman actually tell me she thought I was like 19. And that's dangerous, but that's not my fault. It's genetics, or just the fact that more and more people look younger in adulthood than they ever have in the past. It's all about how you handle it.

Yeah, this goes both ways, though - I've always looked quite a bit younger than my age too, and 3 out of the first 4 guys I dated in young adulthood - all of them were within a few years of my age and one was younger than me - ended up being pedophiles. When you not only look younger than your age but actually like a kid, it not only can suck in a practical sense but really fucks with your sense of self-confidence and ability to have normal, trusting relationships. I didn't date anyone seriously for over 8 years after the third pedo boyfriend. Now that I'm in my mid-thirties and look like I'm in my mid-twenties it could theoretically work the way you described, but I'm not a very extroverted or outgoing person regardless, so yeah.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






My face options are either babyface or neckbeard


Went with neckbeard to stop getting carded

Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 24, 2021

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




Bust Rodd posted:

Is this one of those situations where someone used abuse language like “gaslighting” to describe a totally normal relationship and try to make someone who was maybe just a jerk into a sexual predator?

Yeah. I think about all the bartender's and servers (a culture I was apart of in my early 20-'s) and by the current standards, none of those people could become famous without backlash. Everyone was doing things that don't hold up to the current standards of what "good" people do. Girls, guys, it didn't matter. bartender culture (servers, regulars, bartenders) . Everyone slept with everyone, people would go home with others when people were buzzed, all of that. Thank God I got out of that scene and didn't stay with it. it's amazing how quickly the culture has shifted, even in the last ten years. But then, I think about it and I wonder if the culture actually has, or just online culture. I suspect if I was still in restaurant life, the same poo poo is happening, because I think we all forget how many people aren't perpetually online.

also, a lot of tick tockers/zoomers call everything loving grooming and pedophilia. Saw somebody who was 28 who was dating a 22 year old be called a pedophile. Like, a ton of twitch streamers have gotten in trouble because they're 17-18 dating 16-17 year olds, and that is just very standard but you know...

LionArcher fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 24, 2021

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!




LionArcher posted:

also, a lot of tick tockers/zoomers call everything loving grooming and pedophilia. Saw somebody who was 28 who was dating a 22 year old be called a pedophile. Like, a ton of twitch streamers have gotten in trouble because they're 17-18 dating 16-17 year olds, and that is just very standard but you know...

Yeah, this happens a lot. It's more endemic in Tumblr from what I've been told, although you can catch that short of takes in Twitter as well. If you are an adult dating someone (with their consent) who is an adult but just a few years younger you'll be considered a pedophile groomer and on the same breath they'll infantilize the younger person.

Some have the idea that you have to date someone your exact same age. :psyduck:


kaworu posted:

Yeah, this goes both ways, though - I've always looked quite a bit younger than my age too, and 3 out of the first 4 guys I dated in young adulthood - all of them were within a few years of my age and one was younger than me - ended up being pedophiles. When you not only look younger than your age but actually like a kid, it not only can suck in a practical sense but really fucks with your sense of self-confidence and ability to have normal, trusting relationships. I didn't date anyone seriously for over 8 years after the third pedo boyfriend. Now that I'm in my mid-thirties and look like I'm in my mid-twenties it could theoretically work the way you described, but I'm not a very extroverted or outgoing person regardless, so yeah.

I look younger because genetics (my mother doesn't look 65). So I do wonder how many assholes tried to hit on me thinking they would gently caress a 20-something when I was in my mid-thirties. :v: A lot of younger than me guys still try to flirt with me, but it makes me a bit uncomfortable.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


This thread had to have a mod step in because people were saying a ~30 year old woman was being groomed by her older partner, as I recall.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
I am an autistic asshole that is incapable of understanding anything that isn't face value. Please consider my disability when reading my posts.

Well, I think part of the problem is that on the spectrum between "wholesome, mutually beneficial relationships" and "sex crimes" there's a huge grey area of things which are not definitively okay or certainly morally/legally wrong. And that's okay. We don't need to categorize every action and every relationship into a binary of "healthy" or "criminal." I've been through it (as the one feeling taken advantage of); it's possible to be taken advantage of, or feel bad about a relationship or something that happened within a relationship, without a crime having been committed, or indeed anything morally wrong having happened. We call it "a bad relationship" and sometimes those happen! To compare feeling bad about a relationship, or feeling taken advantage of, to being sexually assault or abused or raped, is to do a disgusting disservice to victims of those crimes.

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Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

This thread had to have a mod step in because people were saying a ~30 year old woman was being groomed by her older partner, as I recall.

i think it was a 27 year old woman LAura Savoie and 67 year old man Dennis Quaid, or maybe it a different story about how Brad Pitt, a 57 year old man, was dating his 65 year old friend's wife, a 25 year old woman.

There's also the Pussy Posse, and DiCaprio's legendary track record of dumping every woman he dates at roughly the 25 yr mark to scoop up another 22 year old, and he's "only" 46.

Kind of no matter where you fall on Age Gap discourse, it is an immutably entrenched component of what people are talking about when they discuss Sexual Assault and the Culture of Hollywood, and I don't really understand why all this discussion of power dynamics between 22 year old fans and 45 year old streamers doesn't translate over. You don't think that 27 year old woman isn't a 'fan' of Dennis Quaid? You don't find the idea of two 60 year old men passing the 25 year old woman back and forth a little... arresting? That's totally fine if you don't, but it's definitely the sort of thing that i think even 10 years from now we're gonna be looking back like "drat, that's crazy"

For the record, not to be sexist, i personally think it's equally weird when 61 year old Madonna was spotted with her 23 year old boyfriend, one of her back up dancers, I think, but I also think there's something to discuss there about power dynamics. Madonna is one of the most famous women who ever lived... how could anyone be on equal footing as her in any relationship? It's like dating Oprah or Bezos, it is, by current woke definitions, impossible for people that rich and famous to have normal emotional relationships.

But I don't want to start a derail, I'm just saying I don't know how you can have the greater conversation without accepting that this is part of it.

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