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Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.





I ain't gonna say he's wrong, but it's interesting Noel Clark picked this particular moment in time to bring up a former cast mates inappropriate behavior, and not any other point in time before today.

Edit: Noel Clarke isn't directly bringing it up, the Independent decided for some reason to re-air that footage, at this particular moment, and not any other time in recent history.

Skwirl fucked around with this message at 03:19 on May 1, 2021

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Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012



Wouldn't be the first thing about Barrowman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barrowman#Allegations_of_misconduct

quote:

In February 2008, Doctor Who co-star Freema Agyeman in an interview to thelondonpaper newspaper revealed that Barrowmore allegedly often arrives on set with his penis exposed and walks around having conversations with people like it was nothing.[103][104]

On 30 November 2008, Barrowman exposed himself during an episode of Radio 1's Switch programme.[105] Although the act was not seen, as a show staff member had covered the webcam, the BBC and Barrowman subsequently apologised for any offence caused.[106]

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



Skwirl posted:

I ain't gonna say he's wrong, but it's interesting Noel Clark picked this particular moment in time to bring up a former cast mates inappropriate behavior, and not any other point in time before today.

Edit: Noel Clarke isn't directly bringing it up, the Independent decided for some reason to re-air that footage, at this particular moment, and not any other time in recent history.

I mean they are participating in society I guess?

It was already an open secret, people just didnt care in 2008.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




Someone commented on reddit that the only the male companions from the RTD era not to be accused of sexual misconduct are the Grandpa and the Robot Dog, and I'm not so sure about the latter.

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.





Inspector Gesicht posted:

Someone commented on reddit that the only the male companions from the RTD era not to be accused of sexual misconduct are the Grandpa and the Robot Dog, and I'm not so sure about the latter.

The voice of the dog is allegedly a huge creep at conventions.

Real Cool Catfish
Jun 6, 2011



Confused when I couldn’t find the section quoted on the Wikipedia page, there is apparently now an ongoing edit war trying to remove/add back in the section.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


egon_beeblebrox posted:

The voice of the dog is allegedly a huge creep at conventions.

The dog itself is innocent, voices can always be replaced.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




egon_beeblebrox posted:

The voice of the dog is allegedly a huge creep at conventions.

Holy poo poo I was joking, I didn't think it'd be real. That just leaves the Grampa.

JoylessJester
Sep 13, 2012



In retrospect christopher eccleston quitting after 1 season because he didn't "enjoy the environment and the culture that the cast and crew had to work in", seems like a very understandable move.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






Inspector Gesicht posted:

Someone commented on reddit that the only the male companions from the RTD era not to be accused of sexual misconduct are the Grandpa and the Robot Dog, and I'm not so sure about the latter.


egon_beeblebrox posted:

The voice of the dog is allegedly a huge creep at conventions.

Jesus christ

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



everyone loves milkshake dog

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




I know it goes without saying but just walking around with your dick chatting with people is so loving bizarre.

Ague Proof
Jun 5, 2014

they told me
I was everything



I just listened to the audio the first time and didn't watch the video...

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

https://twitter.com/darkhorizons/status/1388879446518636551?s=21

Crackbone
May 23, 2003

Vlaada is my co-pilot.



Groovelord Neato posted:

I know it goes without saying but just walking around with your dick chatting with people is so loving bizarre.

I've known people who do that kind of nonsense, and it's an attempt to be funny more than harassment. Not that it's okay, much less in a work environment.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Crackbone posted:

I've known people who do that kind of nonsense, and it's an attempt to be funny more than harassment. Not that it's okay, much less in a work environment.

It's still harassment, especially in a work environment, but it isn't rooted in the same sense exerting power over others that most harassment is, I believe.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Anyone remember Josh Duggar?

https://twitter.com/zzposts/status/1388338661452832768?s=21

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Sexual Assault and the Culture of Arkansas

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Midjack posted:

Sexual Assault and the Culture of Arkansas

Eh, it’s not Hollywood, but he was part of a long running reality TV show, and was being groomed for national office for a while there. He was becoming a big deal before everyone found out he was a creep. And now an even worse creep than before.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




JoylessJester posted:

In retrospect christopher eccleston quitting after 1 season because he didn't "enjoy the environment and the culture that the cast and crew had to work in", seems like a very understandable move.

Starting to think we should check whether this is part of a pattern with other Davies productions. Rot that widespread is usually at least partially the fault of the person at the top.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




The first time around they only technically cancelled the Duggar show, and then made an after-show six months later where the only differences were the name (Counting On) and the unpersoning of a certain family-member.

I'd be hard-pressed to think a second scandal would sink the brand of the family where half the members have regrettable names like "Jinger".

POWELL CURES KIDS
Aug 26, 2016


Crackbone posted:

I've known people who do that kind of nonsense, and it's an attempt to be funny more than harassment. Not that it's okay, much less in a work environment.

I mean, there's a kernel of truth in every joke, right? It's possible to intend things two different ways at once. As an emotionally dead American male, I'd probably find some idiot rolling around with his dick out like it's no big deal pretty funny--but as gags go it's undeniably, uh, intrusive, and there's 100% a power element to literally waving your dick in people's faces.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Yes everyone respects clowns, that is why we all call people Bozo for doing a good job.

POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

I mean, there's a kernel of truth in every joke, right? It's possible to intend things two different ways at once. As an emotionally dead American male, I'd probably find some idiot rolling around with his dick out like it's no big deal pretty funny--but as gags go it's undeniably, uh, intrusive, and there's 100% a power element to literally waving your dick in people's faces.

Ok but how would you feel if like your sister or your mother or any woman you actually give a poo poo about was also in the room with the strange man hanging his wiener out to shake at them?

POWELL CURES KIDS
Aug 26, 2016


Bust Rodd posted:

Ok but how would you feel if like your sister or your mother or any woman you actually give a poo poo about was also in the room with the strange man hanging his wiener out to shake at them?

I mean...the same way I just described? And I'm not sure why you feel the presence of my female loved ones would change that. How exactly are you reading my post?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Yes everyone respects clowns, that is why we all call people Bozo for doing a good job.

POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

I mean...the same way I just described? And I'm not sure why you feel the presence of my female loved ones would change that. How exactly are you reading my post?

I’m reading it as the extremely privileged take of a man who doesn’t feel sexually threatened by other men who is perhaps choosing not to consider that not everyone has the same privilege and maybe having a cock out when you’re just, like, a PA trying to hand out coffee or a make up artist who had to get up at 5 to be here is actually a deeply unwelcome gesture.

Like yes, we’ve all been in our early 20’s or in college hanging with close friends where maybe a penis showing up wouldn’t be the end of the world and maybe kinda funny. That is not the scenario that we’re discussing, we’re talking about someone pulling their dick out at work and just walking around on set like that.

I guess my point is that I wouldn’t want my mom or my sister hanging out in spaces where guys just walk around hanging dong, unless it was specifically what they were looking for.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

I mean, there's a kernel of truth in every joke, right? It's possible to intend things two different ways at once. As an emotionally dead American male, I'd probably find some idiot rolling around with his dick out like it's no big deal pretty funny--but as gags go it's undeniably, uh, intrusive, and there's 100% a power element to literally waving your dick in people's faces.

It's maybe funny in the abstract or when you see a video or picture of it happening but some dude walking around with his cock out is always hosed up when it happens to you in real life. Full stop.

POWELL CURES KIDS
Aug 26, 2016


Bust Rodd posted:

I’m reading it as the extremely privileged take of a man who doesn’t feel sexually threatened by other men who is perhaps choosing not to consider that not everyone has the same privilege and maybe having a cock out when you’re just, like, a PA trying to hand out coffee or a make up artist who had to get up at 5 to be here is actually a deeply unwelcome gesture.

Like yes, we’ve all been in our early 20’s or in college hanging with close friends where maybe a penis showing up wouldn’t be the end of the world and maybe kinda funny. That is not the scenario that we’re discussing, we’re talking about someone pulling their dick out at work and just walking around on set like that.

I guess my point is that I wouldn’t want my mom or my sister hanging out in spaces where guys just walk around hanging dong, unless it was specifically what they were looking for.

As an ape and fool, I find dicks intrinsically funny. They look stupid, they flop around, they bump into things. It makes me laugh. That doesn't change the fact that there's a very clear and inappropriate power dynamic being forced on everybody in the room when somebody just, like...takes one out. It's unacceptable and offensive. Which was my point, made in response to a post that seemed to be making the point that you seem to think I was trying to make. If that makes sense. Me having the social and personal luxury of laughing at dongs doesn't mean I'm excusing the behavior when inflicted on other people, and you hitting me with the "what if it was YOUR MOTHER" argument makes me think you've misinterpreted me? One of us is getting wires crossed here.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

I mean, there's a kernel of truth in every joke, right? It's possible to intend things two different ways at once. As an emotionally dead American male, I'd probably find some idiot rolling around with his dick out like it's no big deal pretty funny--but as gags go it's undeniably, uh, intrusive, and there's 100% a power element to literally waving your dick in people's faces.

Why is your response "well If I was being harassed I'd be cool with it"?

You don't get to tell victims of harassment and abuse how they should feel.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


pentyne posted:

Why is your response "well If I was being harassed I'd be cool with it"?

You don't get to tell victims of harassment and abuse how they should feel.

They're specifically calling it out as harassment regardless of if some individual would find it funny.

Like, that's the opposite of telling victims how they should feel.

POWELL CURES KIDS
Aug 26, 2016


Alright, uh, I'm not sure where the miscommunication occurred here, so I'm gonna take this from the top, and if I've somehow hosed up how I read all this, my bad.

Crackbone posted:

I've known people who do that kind of nonsense, and it's an attempt to be funny more than harassment. Not that it's okay, much less in a work environment.

POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

I mean, there's a kernel of truth in every joke, right? It's possible to intend things two different ways at once. As an emotionally dead American male, I'd probably find some idiot rolling around with his dick out like it's no big deal pretty funny--but as gags go it's undeniably, uh, intrusive, and there's 100% a power element to literally waving your dick in people's faces.

The post I responded to seemed to be saying "yes, it's offensive--but." The post I made in response to that was "yes, it's funny--but." I personally find cocks hilarious, but it's hosed up to whip them out at people. I also think it's funny when people walk into doors. Ape go ouchie, ha ha. I am nevertheless anti-people walking into doors, because I don't enjoy when people get hurt. I am expressly not telling other people how to feel; I'm saying that me (or anyone) finding something funny doesn't mean that it's okay, because my (or anyone's) personal amusement doesn't supersede or mitigate the injury it might cause someone else, for instance a woman being subjected to sexual harassment under the guise of a harmless joke. Even if the joke was, somehow, actually made with sincerely harmless intent. (My other point being that the dude walking around with his dick out might think it's funny, but also certainly understands that it's wrong.)

Am I confused about how this conversation is going? You seem to be reading the opposite of what I'm saying.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

Alright, uh, I'm not sure where the miscommunication occurred here, so I'm gonna take this from the top, and if I've somehow hosed up how I read all this, my bad.



The post I responded to seemed to be saying "yes, it's offensive--but." The post I made in response to that was "yes, it's funny--but." I personally find cocks hilarious, but it's hosed up to whip them out at people. I also think it's funny when people walk into doors. Ape go ouchie, ha ha. I am nevertheless anti-people walking into doors, because I don't enjoy when people get hurt. I am expressly not telling other people how to feel; I'm saying that me (or anyone) finding something funny doesn't mean that it's okay, because my (or anyone's) personal amusement doesn't supersede or mitigate the injury it might cause someone else, for instance a woman being subjected to sexual harassment under the guise of a harmless joke. Even if the joke was, somehow, actually made with sincerely harmless intent. (My other point being that the dude walking around with his dick out might think it's funny, but also certainly understands that it's wrong.)

Am I confused about how this conversation is going? You seem to be reading the opposite of what I'm saying.

The real issue is that this is not an issue that requires subtlety, or exists in shades of grey. Ultimately, a guy taking out his dick in public simply is not funny - even if the person in question seems to think so. When you say "Well, dicks are floppy and funny and it doesn't bother me" reads like you really are making excuses, and stating that because it doesn't bother you it's not really all that bad at all.

Yes, you are qualifying that by saying it's not acceptable, but it doesn't really change the obvious intent of the original statement? It kinda reads like someone professing that they personally believe in the Replacement Theory because it makes sense to them, and then vociferously claiming that they really do abhor racism and inequality in all forms. It doesn't really add up and it comes across as a bit disingenuous.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



kaworu posted:

The real issue is that this is not an issue that requires subtlety, or exists in shades of grey. Ultimately, a guy taking out his dick in public simply is not funny - even if the person in question seems to think so. When you say "Well, dicks are floppy and funny and it doesn't bother me" reads like you really are making excuses, and stating that because it doesn't bother you it's not really all that bad at all.

Yes, you are qualifying that by saying it's not acceptable, but it doesn't really change the obvious intent of the original statement? It kinda reads like someone professing that they personally believe in the Replacement Theory because it makes sense to them, and then vociferously claiming that they really do abhor racism and inequality in all forms. It doesn't really add up and it comes across as a bit disingenuous.

Saying something isn't funny even if people think so doesn't make sense... that's not how humor works (if people are finding it funny then they're finding it funny), and people find questionable, offensive, or even potentially traumatizing things funny all the time for a wide variety of reasons.

The point is that it doesn't matter whether it's funny or not, because that's a stupid and arbitrary method of determining morality. What matters is the potential it has to traumatize someone, which is extremely high and therefore makes it terrible behavior regardless of how any individual person might react.

POWELL CURES KIDS
Aug 26, 2016


kaworu posted:

The real issue is that this is not an issue that requires subtlety, or exists in shades of grey. Ultimately, a guy taking out his dick in public simply is not funny - even if the person in question seems to think so. When you say "Well, dicks are floppy and funny and it doesn't bother me" reads like you really are making excuses, and stating that because it doesn't bother you it's not really all that bad at all.

Yes, you are qualifying that by saying it's not acceptable, but it doesn't really change the obvious intent of the original statement? It kinda reads like someone professing that they personally believe in the Replacement Theory because it makes sense to them, and then vociferously claiming that they really do abhor racism and inequality in all forms. It doesn't really add up and it comes across as a bit disingenuous.

We know it's not funny - we know it's harassment - we know that comedic intent does not supersede subjecting a person to harassment.

You're dropping the context of this entire conversation, and, to boot, you seem to be telling me how I'm supposed to feel. Because, and I don't know how to possibly stress this any further, I personally and speaking only for myself will always find dicks hilarious and dumb--and yet nevertheless advocate very strongly against showing them to unwilling or unwitting people. I'm literally advocating basic empathy, and a consideration of other people's feelings before your own satisfaction. "Don't pull your cock out" isn't an issue with subtleties, but there are distinctions and emphases to draw out that clarify why it's wrong, and why it shouldn't be done, which is what I was doing, as a response to someone else's post.

We're disagreeing to agree, at this point. I'm legitimately confused what the problem is here. I'm gonna bow out.

POWELL CURES KIDS fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 4, 2021

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


POWELL CURES KIDS posted:

Because, and I don't know how to possibly stress this any further, I personally and speaking only for myself will always find dicks hilarious and dumb--

In a conversation about sexual assault and harassment, why do you think this is useful?

When people are describing workplace behavior they found problematic, what do you need to go "well I think it would be funny and dumb, I wouldn't report it"

It negates literally everything else you're are saying because it comes down to declaring that if you experienced, the behavior would be harmless and funny, and in so doing no matter what else you say you diminish and negate the experience of anyone saying "it's hurtful, disrespectful, and abusive"

This is like men saying "lol I'd wish I'd get catcalled, I'd love it".

pentyne fucked around with this message at 19:05 on May 4, 2021

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



pentyne posted:

In a conversation about sexual assault and harassment, why do you think this is useful?
Being able to go "just because my experience with [thing] is positive doesn't mean [thing] is okay because my experience and situation is not universal" is actually pretty drat important.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


sethsez posted:

Being able to go "just because my experience with [thing] is positive doesn't mean [thing] is okay because my experience and situation is not universal" is actually pretty drat important.

When the thing is sexual harassment?

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






I'm an emotionally unavailable dude and someone taking their dick is super gross and weird and offputing. gently caress that.

Patrick Spens
Jul 21, 2006

"Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"


Pillbug

pentyne posted:

When the thing is sexual harassment?

Yes obviously.

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Ask me about women's ~Science~


pentyne posted:

When the thing is sexual harassment?

This is the key.

In a vacuum thinking dicks are funny and weird is ok. Contextually in an intentionally comedic situation in a film or TV show they can continue to be funny.

However when your response to imagining dealing with a person in a real-life work situation having their dick out is to be like "yeah I know it wouldn't be cool to do it because it would hurt other people, but *I* still think it would be hilarious because dicks are always hilarious" is weird and hosed up. In the context of an event that happened in an actual workplace someone having their dick out isn't funny.

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Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.



pentyne posted:

When the thing is sexual harassment?
It turns out that yes, it is, because otherwise you get people who think it's only sexual harassment when they say so, like this guy right here:

Bust Rodd posted:

Like yes, we’ve all been in our early 20’s or in college hanging with close friends where maybe a penis showing up wouldn’t be the end of the world and maybe kinda funny. That is not the scenario that we’re discussing,
Coerced consent isn't just about sex and workplace harassment. Peer pressure is a very common source of continuous harassment (and a lot of workplace harassment is not top down, but rather an extension of social peer pressure dynamics) and also not ok. They are on the same continuum, not completely different things, and examining those similarities and what assumptions of consent we take for granted everywhere in life is actually important.

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