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NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



pentyne posted:

When people are describing workplace behavior they found problematic, what do you need to go "well I think it would be funny and dumb, I wouldn't report it"

They didnt say that at all. repeatedly, they didn't say that. fight actual battles.

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kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



sethsez posted:

Being able to go "just because my experience with [thing] is positive doesn't mean [thing] is okay because my experience and situation is not universal" is actually pretty drat important.

There is a world of difference in maturity between thinking that to yourself, and loudly stating that you don't find this potentially traumatic and damaging type of behavior anything other than amusing and funny in a discussion about what is and is not inappropriate sexual behavior.

Being able to acknowledge that truth and keep it to yourself is what you're talking about. Making a vocal point about how you personally find dudes taking their dicks out in public to be funny and barely objectionable (even though you totally get that other people could find it traumatic and objectionable) is weird and kinda tone-deaf.

Like trying to explain that you find cruelly racist humor hilarious and awesome while understanding that it's objectionable and wrong. That may be true, but you're probably not going to win any points by trying to explain that to a room full of black people.

kaworu fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 4, 2021

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



kaworu posted:

There is a world of difference in maturity between thinking that to yourself, and loudly stating that you don't find this potentially traumatic and damaging type of behavior anything other than amusing and funny in a discussion about what is and is not inappropriate sexual behavior.

I mean, it was a pretty natural continuation of the "why do people do this" nature of the discussion that had been happening up to that point. He didn't wander into a conversation where someone was sharing a personally traumatic situation and said "well it never bothered ME," it was in direct response to someone saying "these people think they're being funny."

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Look, I'm more ideologically pure than you because I read that thing you said in slightly the wrong way, so now I have to fight you because that's far more productive than having a discourse that advances our shared goals.

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Ask me about women's ~Science~


Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

Look, I'm more ideologically pure than you because I read that thing you said in slightly the wrong way, so now I have to fight you because that's far more productive than having a discourse that advances our shared goals.

What does this have to do with ideological purity? I'm allowed to think someone is gross if they find the idea of nonconsensual dick flashing at work funny.

Because it is gross. The privilege of finding that kind of situation funny rather than threatening is limited to people who will never be in a situation where getting flashed is an implicit or explicit threat. Not even necessarily sexual threat, but it's a display of power at the minimum. Or should Lewis C K have been able to get away with his "as a joke" defense?

Please note I am discussing reality only here. Fictional depictions of dick flashing are not the topic of this thread

Edit to add: dick flashing consensually among friends is also not the topic of this thread, nor was it the situation being discussed, namely: walking into a work meeting on site cock out

KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 5, 2021

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


The bullheaded bad-faith gotcha arguments are really loving stupid and should stop.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



KitConstantine posted:

Or should Lewis C K have been able to get away with his "as a joke" defense?

Nobody said this was an acceptable defense. It is, in fact, the exact opposite of what's being said.

Are you even reading what you're replying to?

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Ask me about women's ~Science~


sethsez posted:

Nobody said this was an acceptable defense. It is, in fact, the exact opposite of what's being said.

Are you even reading what you're replying to?

KitConstantine posted:

I'm allowed to think someone is gross if they find the idea of nonconsensual dick flashing at work funny.

Because it is gross. The privilege of finding that kind of situation funny rather than threatening is limited to people who will never be in a situation where getting flashed is an implicit or explicit threat. Not even necessarily sexual threat, but it's a display of power at the minimum. [Snip]

Please note I am discussing reality only here. Fictional depictions of dick flashing are not the topic of this thread

Edit to add: dick flashing consensually among friends is also not the topic of this thread, nor was it the situation being discussed, namely: walking into a work meeting on site cock out

Better? What's your response to my actual argument here

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



This is the worst conversation

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


some of this is people talking past each other but also honestly some of it is just that people don't want to hear about how invulnerable you feel, in the sexual assault thread

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

some of this is people talking past each other but also honestly some of it is just that people don't want to hear about how invulnerable you feel, in the sexual assault thread

This is more or less what it comes down to, for me, and the major point I was attempting to make.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


Though Christopher Ecclestone's quotes about working on DOCTOR WHO are going around, it's worth mentioning that he never had a problem with people on set and it was in reference to people in charge at the BBC. His point was that they made working difficult for everyone.

Also, can confirm that Barrowman loves pulling his dick out. I know that he was doing it when performing at a theatre until one of the staff had to remind him that the other show on at the theatre was a Russian ballet, largely performed by young girls.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

some of this is people talking past each other but also honestly some of it is just that people don't want to hear about how invulnerable you feel, in the sexual assault thread

Yeah, I agree with this.

“Hey man, pulling your cock out on the set of a TV show you work on is actually kinda funny” is a helluva take for the “Sexual Assault and the culture of Hollywood”, regardless of where you actually land on the issue or if you think it’s appropriate to do so.

Kaiju Cage Match
Nov 5, 2012





If you pull your dick out in public, it deserves to be kicked. Simple.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


Also we’re talking about someone who had to BE REMINDED to put his cock away around a theatre full of middle school ballerinas.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I have no idea how these people loving function when being autistic it seems so difficult just to meet the bare minimum of social acceptance when trying incredibly hard.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



There's a wiiiide chasm between doing something to be funny and doing something because it's a weird mental tic you have and/or some kind of sick paraphilia. That dude either just literally can't stop himself from pulling his dick out, or it's a fetish and he's getting off on it. In either case, he has a problem and needs to get help.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I have no idea how these people loving function when being autistic it seems so difficult just to meet the bare minimum of social acceptance when trying incredibly hard.

what does autism have to do with any of this? did you get two threads mixed up or something?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

what does autism have to do with any of this? did you get two threads mixed up or something?

I took it to mean “as a person with autism, I find it difficult to just manage normal social situations, I can’t imagine how people handle or navigate these much weirder situations”

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Bust Rodd posted:

I took it to mean “as a person with autism, I find it difficult to just manage normal social situations, I can’t imagine how people handle or navigate these much weirder situations”

oh, okay, that makes more sense, i was reading "when being autistic" as modifying "these people" instead of being a new clause

a bunch of shitheads in game development or competitive gaming have tried to play off sexual harassment (or racism, or various other things) as just being awkward because of their autism in recent memory, and it's the vilest thing -- both for how nonsensical it is as an excuse and for contributing to the idea that autistic people are more likely to be perpetrators when in reality the exact opposite is true

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

Everything is subject to the needs of intelligence, for geniuses like me. If we actually solve problems, people won't need me and people like me, and this is a travesty without end. You have to squeeze the poor so they know their place, and you fucking commies forget that.


I think when we talk about people who expose their genitalia in public all the time, we are talking either about homeless drug addicts or people who are exploiting a power differential to get their rocks off. The whole point is that no one knows what to do because you're being wildly inappropriate. It can be difficult to summon the courage in a social situation to tell a loving pig to put his dick back in his pants.

Meanwhile if you or I did this we would set our professional and personal lives on fire.

Sodomy Hussein fucked around with this message at 20:46 on May 5, 2021

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



I think there might also be an aspect to consider of hollywood acting types often being incredible extroverts, doing extreme and unconventional things and being celebrated for it and that shaping their decision making processes . Not excusing anything, just thinking out loud, maybe its bollocks.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


NotJustANumber99 posted:

I think there might also be an aspect to consider of hollywood acting types often being incredible extroverts, doing extreme and unconventional things and being celebrated for it and that shaping their decision making processes . Not excusing anything, just thinking out loud, maybe its bollocks.

That's his thing when he's not actually acting as far as I can tell. If he's on a panel show or whatever then he's the very loud and naughty centre of attention, and it's okay because he's both American and very gay, so Granny isn't offended.

Whether he really is just devoid of the most basic concept of decorum, in which case he's a criminally insufferable twat, or if he's using the non-threatening flamboyant extrovert gimmick to cover for getting off on flopping his bits at co-workers is irrelevant. Either way he shouldn't be working around other people until there's a resolution.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 6, 2021

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Ask me about women's ~Science~


NotJustANumber99 posted:

I think there might also be an aspect to consider of hollywood acting types often being incredible extroverts, doing extreme and unconventional things and being celebrated for it and that shaping their decision making processes . Not excusing anything, just thinking out loud, maybe its bollocks.

Okay so you can see again how this comes off as making excuses for sexual harassment right? Like come on, being extroverted and successful doesn't suddenly make you think flapping your dick around at work is okay!

Maybe you should think about why your posts keep coming across as making excuses for this kind of behavior. I don't think anyone requires a devil's advocate for sexual harassment

KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 6, 2021

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


Yeah I mean at the end of the day there are lots of reasons men could be complete and total creeps!

When I was in college I was in a GLBTQ alliance group with like 50 members. One day I got an email from some of the freshman girls, mostly queer or lesbian identified, saying that they were all chatting and apparently EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM had a story about one member of our group, a man from the Dominican Republic, who basically kept letting himself nto people’s rooms when he heard their were girls passed out in there, and all my friends had weird stories where they would wake up to see William just reaching for them, and then backing up as they woke up and being like “oh sorry I’m looking for my wallet” and leaving. We had like no joke 8-9 different women with this exact story.

We had a meeting about it and as a white-cisgender male at 22 I was like “well ladies I don’t know, William is from a different country and we don’t know their customs and-“ and one of my best friends, a woman named Pam, was like “uh no, Bust Rodd, I’m also from the DR, and he would’ve been dragged into the street and had the absolute poo poo kicked out of him by my dad and my brothers if we were still there. And even IF that we’re the case, part of immigration is learning about the world you would like to join”

I learned a lot that day, and ultimately we kicked him out, he got caught creeping at a generic frat party about a month later after denying everything and TW: violence got beaten so badly by the woman’s boyfriend that he went blind in his left eye

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

Everything is subject to the needs of intelligence, for geniuses like me. If we actually solve problems, people won't need me and people like me, and this is a travesty without end. You have to squeeze the poor so they know their place, and you fucking commies forget that.


Bust Rodd posted:

Yeah I mean at the end of the day there are lots of reasons men could be complete and total creeps!

When I was in college I was in a GLBTQ alliance group with like 50 members. One day I got an email from some of the freshman girls, mostly queer or lesbian identified, saying that they were all chatting and apparently EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM had a story about one member of our group, a man from the Dominican Republic, who basically kept letting himself nto people’s rooms when he heard their were girls passed out in there, and all my friends had weird stories where they would wake up to see William just reaching for them, and then backing up as they woke up and being like “oh sorry I’m looking for my wallet” and leaving. We had like no joke 8-9 different women with this exact story.

We had a meeting about it and as a white-cisgender male at 22 I was like “well ladies I don’t know, William is from a different country and we don’t know their customs and-“ and one of my best friends, a woman named Pam, was like “uh no, Bust Rodd, I’m also from the DR, and he would’ve been dragged into the street and had the absolute poo poo kicked out of him by my dad and my brothers if we were still there. And even IF that we’re the case, part of immigration is learning about the world you would like to join”

I learned a lot that day, and ultimately we kicked him out, he got caught creeping at a generic frat party about a month later after denying everything and TW: violence got beaten so badly by the woman’s boyfriend that he went blind in his left eye

Well that was a story with a lot of left and right turns. Did anyone attempt to reach out to the college about any of this?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


Sodomy Hussein posted:

Well that was a story with a lot of left and right turns. Did anyone attempt to reach out to the college about any of this?

This was UPenn in 2010, there was literally NOTHING to be done about Campus SA at the time. It was extremely common knowledge which of the 3 houses you never let your female-bodied friends go party at and if your heard that so-and-so went to AGD or “GHB” then you grabbed your keys and you went and found her before it was too late.

The Ivy League in general feels like a total cesspit of sexual impropriety, so many rich slugs who’ve never had any consequences in their lives.

When my frat got threatened to be shut down by the school for having paid shows and essentially acting as an unlicensed venue, our Rex pointed out we had the lowest reported Sexual Assaults by a country mile ( ZERO ) and we were the only frat hosting GLBTQA events... so shutting us down means you hate gays and love rape! He was so smooth with the admins they would always donate a few grand to our events after trying to get us shut down, because the sexual assault was inconsequential, but you couldn’t be caught dead doing anti-gay poo poo in 2010.

Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 6, 2021

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Bust Rodd posted:

Yeah I mean at the end of the day there are lots of reasons men could be complete and total creeps!

When I was in college I was in a GLBTQ alliance group with like 50 members. One day I got an email from some of the freshman girls, mostly queer or lesbian identified, saying that they were all chatting and apparently EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM had a story about one member of our group, a man from the Dominican Republic, who basically kept letting himself nto people’s rooms when he heard their were girls passed out in there, and all my friends had weird stories where they would wake up to see William just reaching for them, and then backing up as they woke up and being like “oh sorry I’m looking for my wallet” and leaving. We had like no joke 8-9 different women with this exact story.

We had a meeting about it and as a white-cisgender male at 22 I was like “well ladies I don’t know, William is from a different country and we don’t know their customs and-“ and one of my best friends, a woman named Pam, was like “uh no, Bust Rodd, I’m also from the DR, and he would’ve been dragged into the street and had the absolute poo poo kicked out of him by my dad and my brothers if we were still there. And even IF that we’re the case, part of immigration is learning about the world you would like to join”

I learned a lot that day, and ultimately we kicked him out, he got caught creeping at a generic frat party about a month later after denying everything and TW: violence got beaten so badly by the woman’s boyfriend that he went blind in his left eye

Should have bought a wallet chain.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






Bust Rodd posted:

Yeah I mean at the end of the day there are lots of reasons men could be complete and total creeps!

When I was in college I was in a GLBTQ alliance group with like 50 members. One day I got an email from some of the freshman girls, mostly queer or lesbian identified, saying that they were all chatting and apparently EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM had a story about one member of our group, a man from the Dominican Republic, who basically kept letting himself nto people’s rooms when he heard their were girls passed out in there, and all my friends had weird stories where they would wake up to see William just reaching for them, and then backing up as they woke up and being like “oh sorry I’m looking for my wallet” and leaving. We had like no joke 8-9 different women with this exact story.

We had a meeting about it and as a white-cisgender male at 22 I was like “well ladies I don’t know, William is from a different country and we don’t know their customs and-“ and one of my best friends, a woman named Pam, was like “uh no, Bust Rodd, I’m also from the DR, and he would’ve been dragged into the street and had the absolute poo poo kicked out of him by my dad and my brothers if we were still there. And even IF that we’re the case, part of immigration is learning about the world you would like to join”

I learned a lot that day, and ultimately we kicked him out, he got caught creeping at a generic frat party about a month later after denying everything and TW: violence got beaten so badly by the woman’s boyfriend that he went blind in his left eye

how did this dude keep getting himself into other peoples rooms anyway

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

how did this dude keep getting himself into other peoples rooms anyway

If it's a party at a greek house or off-campus residence interior doors likely don't autolock and may be set up to prevent lockout so they can only be locked from the inside. Plus the unconscious person may have been helped to the room by someone who was be half in the bag themselves and might not think to engage the lock on the way out.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(

Communication is difficult even when everyone largely agrees on everything. I would say, as the thread often verges on derailing on the topic, that while it may in some contexts be useful to try to understand the mindset behind these abhorrent acts, I would also understand that that's a topic many would not care to have discussed here; as most people should realize, it can be difficult to have productive conversations about the 'why' of people being horrible gits because in everyday life those conversations often are just searches for excuses and ameliorations, even if that's not what posters are trying to do here. So I'll say that when people point out that in an abuser's own head, they're not at fault, or that crass humor exists outside of a bludgeon to discomfit and assault people with, that's probably a legitimate conversation to be had, just maybe not here.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010


Shady Amish Terror posted:

Communication is difficult even when everyone largely agrees on everything. I would say, as the thread often verges on derailing on the topic,
Doesn't the fact that everyone agree cause the derails? If everyone believes X is bad and should be punished there's not much more to say on the topic and people will search for other related things to discuss. One of which will be "Why"?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1390388042964344833?s=21

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


Gotta think a lot of celebs are going to turn away from Raya now. Since that one lady went for the comical Twitter clout instead of a week in St Lucia with Affleck people have realised you can sell Raya encounters to the tabloids.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

I only just recently learned that Raya is designed to match people with celebs. That's true, right? So, I mean, attack people when they're creeps on it, but when people post their interactions with celebs when the celebs aren't creeps (which, let's be honest, Affleck kind of wasn't), what are we really doing?

I haven't really dived into what Perry said, outside of him saying that he was old enough to be her dad. Which sounds creepy, so if I missed him being a super creep, my mistake. But, again, and I'm trying to tread a fine line here but, if you're 19 and signing up with an app to be matched with celebs and can turn down who you're matched with...what are we really talking about here?

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




hold on, an app where you match with celebrities

that is immensely stupid

wow

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Yeah, I don't get it. It'd be loving weird to find out Matt Perry was going on dates with 19 year olds, but that didn't happen, an app matched them and he wrote a "lol it's funny we matched" message, didn't ask to meet her or anything. Which is what I would probably do if an app matched me with someone way too young for me.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


thrawn527 posted:

what are we really talking about here?

“A lot of people were saying I’m a bully and mean for posting this, and it made me feel kind of bad, but at the same time, I feel like a lot of guys in Hollywood are talking to all these young girls and it’s something that I think a lot of people should be aware of,” the user, Kate Haralson, exclusively told Page Six on Thursday.

“I don’t think he minded that,(telling him she was 19)” she said. “It kind of felt weird talking to someone my dad’s age and it just felt not right, especially when he knew how young I was.”

The blond beauty claimed the actor asked her at one point, “Am I as old as your dad?”

“So it was weird,” she added, noting that she told the “Odd Couple” star that he was only about a year older than her father, which she claimed the TV star “laughed off.”

I dunno maybe if a 19 year old girl is saying “older creepy Hollywood elites are talking to 19 year olds on this celebrity dating app and it’s weird.” then we should hear her out? Feels maybe a little relevant? To the thread?

Skwirl posted:

Yeah, I don't get it. It'd be loving weird to find out Matt Perry was going on dates with 19 year olds, but that didn't happen, an app matched them and he wrote a "lol it's funny we matched" message, didn't ask to meet her or anything. Which is what I would probably do if an app matched me with someone way too young for me.

“The celeb (Perry’s) assistant added that she and Perry never actually met up in person — although the actor allegedly tried once and told her, “Maybe one day you can get a COVID test and come over” — because she wasn’t really interested in him.”

He invited her to meet up and she declined.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Carthag Tuek posted:

hold on, an app where you match with celebrities

that is immensely stupid

wow

Right? When I originally saw the Affleck story, I just assumed it was some random dating site, and the woman assumed, reasonably, she was being catfished when she was matched with "Ben Affleck". But when I found out it was an app specifically designed to match people with celebs? I mean...I dunno.

Like, now I don't know what to make of the whole app, or anyone who interacts with it.

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thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Bust Rodd posted:

“A lot of people were saying I’m a bully and mean for posting this, and it made me feel kind of bad, but at the same time, I feel like a lot of guys in Hollywood are talking to all these young girls and it’s something that I think a lot of people should be aware of,” the user, Kate Haralson, exclusively told Page Six on Thursday.

“I don’t think he minded that,(telling him she was 19)” she said. “It kind of felt weird talking to someone my dad’s age and it just felt not right, especially when he knew how young I was.”

The blond beauty claimed the actor asked her at one point, “Am I as old as your dad?”

“So it was weird,” she added, noting that she told the “Odd Couple” star that he was only about a year older than her father, which she claimed the TV star “laughed off.”

I dunno maybe if a 19 year old girl is saying “older creepy Hollywood elites are talking to 19 year olds on this celebrity dating app and it’s weird.” then we should hear her out? Feels maybe a little relevant? To the thread?


“The celeb (Perry’s) assistant added that she and Perry never actually met up in person — although the actor allegedly tried once and told her, “Maybe one day you can get a COVID test and come over” — because she wasn’t really interested in him.”

He invited her to meet up and she declined.

It's a dating app, and she can decline, right? Though, I guess the Affleck interaction proves that the man can still interact after they decline.

I don't at all know how dating apps work, so I'm talking out of my rear end here. So, sorry if I'm wrong. Which I most assuredly am.

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