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Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




enki42 posted:

Aziz Ansari? I can't remember exactly what he said in his special that addressed it but I think from the beginning he's been pretty contrite. It's hard to say whether he's got better since it was an isolated report in the first place and no one is exactly monitoring his dates, but I don't think there's been any other scandals since.

I might be misremembering it, but the Aziz Ansari thing was way more minor than Louis CK. He went on a date with a girl, she came back to his place and he pressured her for sex, she said no, he kept pressuring, she kept saying no, and left without having sex with him?

He was absolutely being a creep to her, but he didn't pull his loving dick out in front of her?

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enki42
Jun 11, 2001
#ATMLIVESMATTER

Put this Nazi-lover on ignore immediately!


Skwirl posted:

I might be misremembering it, but the Aziz Ansari thing was way more minor than Louis CK. He went on a date with a girl, she came back to his place and he pressured her for sex, she said no, he kept pressuring, she kept saying no, and left without having sex with him?

He was absolutely being a creep to her, but he didn't pull his loving dick out in front of her?

Oh for sure he's on a way lower tier than most people. He was basically really creepy and didn't pick up on non-verbal cues and discomfort on the part of the woman (or willfully ignored them, although he's maintained that he genuinely wasn't aware the woman was uncomfortable)

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009


Aziz also mainly took flak because he made being a big feminist ally part of his identity. Then it turns out he's got chronic porn brain and is trying to fish hook women.

As far as I remember from the last time it came up, I think one of the only ones that counts for genuine apology and return would be Dan Harmon. Everybody else either just barrels through it or disappears.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




CPL593H posted:

Why work on yourself and try to make amends when you can pander to chuds and still make a lot of money? One of the things his friend lectured me about was that it was so sad that CK lost everything for one stupid mistake and how doing comedy was his dream and he lost his dream and blah blah blah as if I'm supposed to feel sorry for a millionaire who had to briefly stop doing his comedy because he sexually assaulted multiple women.

the whole "he lost everything" is so stupid, theres even one in this thread (e: page 224). even if he did lose everything, its not a human right to be a celebrity comedian. he can go work at a muffler shop, he has the experience.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Louie has millions of dollars. He lost a TV deal that he was hinting he was ready to be done with and canceled a tour. And he started touring like a year later. He didn't lose poo poo. gently caress that guy.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Louis CK lost "hypothetical money", as in money he pulled out of his rear end as what he would've earned had he not stopped his tour dates or whatever. He had nobody to blame for himself for not owning up to what he did and apologizing back when it happened.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Yes but also gently caress that guy and furthermore

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Edit: decided to delete my post because it was an inappropriate comparison

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Sep 17, 2021

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



I don't see how sexual assault is analogous or similar to that at all. I really wish people wouldn't downplay the heinous poo poo of sexual assault by likening them to whatever loving pet peeve they have.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Well I thought the conversation was about some offensive homophobic stuff Norm Macdonald had said. Apologies if I misunderstood the line of the conversation.

WaywardWoodwose
May 19, 2008

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Basebf555 posted:

Honestly I just think comedians are soft these days when it comes to criticism.

To be fair, modern criticism is a whole different animal. Twenty years ago you and me could spend an hour outside the gas station criticizing actors, comedians, politicians, and nothing we said would travel more than ten feet past us. Now in seconds I can find almost anyone noteworthy online and let them know that their whole family should get cancer and die in a fire.

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



I’ve mentioned this before but stand up comedians are the absolute worst at taking criticism. I listen to their podcasts and the amount of time they spend complaining about cancel culture is just insane. They won’t shut up about it. It’s become a cliche.

I don’t know if they’re trying to appeal to chuds or if they’re too loving dumb to realize what they’re doing.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible





sponges posted:

I’ve mentioned this before but stand up comedians are the absolute worst at taking criticism. I listen to their podcasts and the amount of time they spend complaining about cancel culture is just insane. They won’t shut up about it. It’s become a cliche.

I don’t know if they’re trying to appeal to chuds or if they’re too loving dumb to realize what they’re doing.

I find a lot of comedians have an over-inflated sense of self-importance, like their jokes are the ones that are challenging society.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Skwirl posted:

I might be misremembering it, but the Aziz Ansari thing was way more minor than Louis CK. He went on a date with a girl, she came back to his place and he pressured her for sex, she said no, he kept pressuring, she kept saying no, and left without having sex with him?

He was absolutely being a creep to her, but he didn't pull his loving dick out in front of her?

It was notorious for two reasons

- he was the guy wearing the Time's Up pin on red carpets, wrote a book on modern dating, presented himself as this uber feminist ally
- babe.net, the people publishing the story, styled themselves as rogue "hip" journalists who ignored a lot of ethics and reporting standards, then stepped into it feuding with people on social media about the whole thing constantly

So, what could've been a conversation about bad dates, porn addled brains, and a guy who bragged about being an ally ignoring or not understanding non-verbal communication such as 'girl gets up, walks over to the other side of the room' became instead about the lovely rag that pushed the story hoping for their big moment in the spotlight.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



Skwirl posted:

Has anyone done that? Like shown actual contrivance and got better?

Dan Harmon's the big one.

Davros1 posted:

I find a lot of comedians have an over-inflated sense of self-importance, like their jokes are the ones that are challenging society.

Every stand-up comedian wants to think they're secretly the next George Carlin. The issue is George Carlin actually had a mature and reasonable understanding of his place in the world and he understood that the benefits of having a major platform also came with equally large responsibilities.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


There's a great Curt Vonnegut quote I can't remember at the moment about how every artist was against the vietnam war and it meant precisely dick.

Art can change the world, but not when the world really doesn't want to change.

Every comedian complaining about cancel culture wasn't trying to change the world for the better regardless. They want to feel smart and special as they put people beneath them on the social ladder in their place, and when people use their free speech to criticize them for it, they whinge about how there's no free speech anymore.

LividLiquid fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Sep 17, 2021

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


Skwirl posted:

I might be misremembering it, but the Aziz Ansari thing was way more minor than Louis CK. He went on a date with a girl, she came back to his place and he pressured her for sex, she said no, he kept pressuring, she kept saying no, and left without having sex with him?

He was absolutely being a creep to her, but he didn't pull his loving dick out in front of her?

As a factual matter he did in fact pull his loving dick out in front of her but IIRC that was after she had already blown him once? which is uh... not exactly the same context as Louis CK even at the worst interpretation of Aziz Ansari.

RevKrule
Jul 9, 2001

Thrilling the forums since 2001



Skwirl posted:

Has anyone done that? Like shown actual contrivance and got better?

The textbook example to this is Dan Harmon who spent a good 7-10 minutes on his podcast discussing what he did, why he was wrong, why he knew it was wrong then and still did it, and how awful his actions were and their impact. It is literally the best example of showing contrition and actually accepting of responsibility I've ever seen and even his victim told people to give it a listen.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/01/dan-harmon-delivers-a-lengthy-apology-to-former-community-writer-megan-ganz-on-harmontown.html

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




Davros1 posted:

I find a lot of comedians have an over-inflated sense of self-importance, like their jokes are the ones that are challenging society.

i think theres a lot there yeah. you either get heckled out immediately or you train yourself to be the person who doesnt give a poo poo about hecklers and cancel culture and whatever the gently caress im saying my truth its brilliant. so what if i assault someone, they were there first! after a certain point, everybody is trying to bring you down & they dont know how hard you had to work to get where you are

ah poo poo, i just described capitalism again

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Comedians do this thing where they act like they're big important modern day philosophers until someone calls them out on a really lovely joke or comment they made. Then all of a sudden their super important commentary is "just jokes and not meant to be taken seriously.". And then of course it's everyone else who is being too sensitive when the big important comedian has a meltdown over it and looks like an rear end in a top hat.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008



Chris Delia Louis CK, Aziz, Bryan Callen, etc seem to be able to keep afloat because they get this hardened subset of their prior audience suddenly making extra effort to throw money at them.i am pretty sure Loius' first shows back got standing ovations because of all the dude bros projecting. I don't know. There are so so so many podcast comedians now so who people form parasocial relationships with is kind of on them.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






CPL593H posted:

I once had the pleasure of having a personal friend of Louis CK ask me my opinion on CK and after a back and forth of "I don't want to discuss that." he told me it was fine and no matter what I said wouldn't bother him. So I offered my opinion that I no longer am a fan for obvious reasons. So then ne proceeded to berate me about how it's all totally wrong and that Louis CK only said "These stories are true." so people wouldn't bother the victims and ackshully... It was probably the single most awkward experience of my life and I wanted to float out of my body. And this went on for a solid 20 minutes. Never meet your idols, kids!

Being a avid standup comedy fan a thing I've noticed is that they're often very insecure people and for many an attack on one feels like an attack on all no matter how justified said attack is. More to the point though, I don't think being a former fan of someone who turned out to be a trash bag makes you a monster. I was probably as big of a Louis CK fan as you'd ever find and I very fondly remember watching his specials and going to his live shows. How funny his FX series was and his eye for how absurd, crazy, and senseless the world is. But I just don't care about him anymore and I have no desire to revisit any of the things which I admit I still find funny.

The replies to that woman recounting her sexual assault from Norm has other women piping up about how working in a comic club underage made them hate all comics. Jesus christ.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Just for reference this is the guy who defended CK to me and all the stuff he said in this video is what he said to me some of it almost verbatim which says to me that he's given this speech MANY times. And in my case it went on much longer than the four minutes this video is. He kept just spinning his wheels and saying the same poo poo over and over. After a point I just stopped engaging him because I figured he'd just say what he wanted to say and then talk about something else. My brother kept trying to get him to talk about other poo poo the whole time (to no avail). It was really loving awkward. Everyone was having a fun time hanging out and then CK comes up in conversation and it's just this one guy ranting and three guys like "Oh god, why?". And then when he was done everyone got up and left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSeJSEnd_64

My advice is to not hang out with comedians after the show (except Ron Funches because he's a super nice laid back dude and if you like weed he can smoke an inhuman amount of it and will share it with you).

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




jesus, that is awkward even without being in person

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005


https://twitter.com/deadline/status/1438941618074095617?s=21

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






My conclusion: Drake Bell is a piece of poo poo.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

That is one of the most punchable faces I've ever seen.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

My close friend does stand up as a side hustle in London and I've been to plenty of open mic nights and such with her. Male comics in particular are the most fragile, egotistical, overbearing group of people I've ever been around. Not all! But as a rule. The women seem mostly to be way more chill about it. This is amateur and semi-pro only, I don't know how it would translate to people who make their whole living at comedy.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible





CPL593H posted:

That is one of the most punchable faces I've ever seen.

He looks like a fifty year old teacher trying to appear "cool" and "hip" and "with it" with what he assumes is a youthful and stylish haircut.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

edit: I'm stupid you're talking about Drake Bell not Robert Kelly.

But yes that haircut is loving awful and he looks ten years older than he actually is. I wonder if his hair is that big for a kind of Batman's cape reason. Like how Batman's cape is to obscure his body when people shoot at him, the hair is intended to give people the wrong target when they go to punch him in the face. Not that there are additional reasons necessary to hate Drake Bell but he's also a transphobic dipshit.

CPL593H fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 18, 2021

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Peacocking actually makes so more sense if it pretty much only exists to attract literal children.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




This isn't an attempt to excuse his actions or anything, but I wonder if Dan Schneider did anything to him when he was a child making Drake and Josh? Most child predators were themselves victims of child abuse or molestation

Chemtrailologist
Jul 8, 2007


Don't pedophiles make a distinction between girls and boys? I thought Schneider only abused girls.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Ego-bot posted:

Don't pedophiles make a distinction between girls and boys? I thought Schneider only abused girls.

I don't think so, they'll have a preference, but they aren't picky.

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SCHOOL GIRL FETISH

I'm fairly certain Jimmy Saville's victims included a bunch of boys too.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Skwirl posted:

This isn't an attempt to excuse his actions or anything, but I wonder if Dan Schneider did anything to him when he was a child making Drake and Josh? Most child predators were themselves victims of child abuse or molestation

That is a known phenomenon but I don't think that "most" is accurate.


Skwirl posted:

I don't think so, they'll have a preference, but they aren't picky.

Child predators tend to go after whoever is easiest to exploit regardless of the victim's gender.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!


I'm still pretty sure pedophilia is not a compulsion unless you're talking about people with severe mental disabilities and unable to control themselves, but at best a fetish.

That said, predators come in different types. Some predators seem to have particular tastes and profiles they go after, while others are more indiscriminate.

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010


Even if Bell wasn’t personally victimized it’s possible that growing up in an environment where Schneider was doing that kind of thing with no consequences gave him a hosed up sense of right and wrong.

Not an excuse, of course.

Das Boo
Jun 9, 2011

There was a GHOST here. It's gone now.




He was very likely victimized by virtue of being a child actor. It takes a parent stepping in hard to prevent it and unfortunately, the kind of people who allow their children to go into acting tend to be the kind ready to sacrifice their own children.

There are exceptions, of course, but nowhere near as many as you'd loving hope.

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catapede
Jul 1, 2018

Eatin' fish leaves
Gettin' strong

Skwirl posted:

This isn't an attempt to excuse his actions or anything, but I wonder if Dan Schneider did anything to him when he was a child making Drake and Josh? Most child predators were themselves victims of child abuse or molestation

This is actually a myth. It's estimated about 30% of child predators were abused as children (which is about the same as the national average of 28%).

https://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/nsor/som_mythsandfacts.htm

quote:

Becker and Murphy (1998) estimated that while 30 percent of sex offenders were sexually abused as children, 70 percent were not.

Hindman and Peters (2001) found that 67 percent of sex offenders initially reported experiencing sexual abuse as children, but when given a polygraph ("lie detector") test, the proportion dropped to 29 percent, suggesting that some sex offenders exaggerate early childhood victimization in an effort to rationalize their behavior or gain sympathy from others.

Abusers and harassers know what they're doing is wrong, and they know what lies to tell to garner sympathy and blame their actions on someone else. I believed the myth about abuse in childhood being common in abusive people's lives, but it seems like that only correlates to people who are extremely abusive.

Edited to add a fact.

catapede fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Sep 19, 2021

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