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Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Shadowlyger posted:

1. Pnuema gives Gramps some power before they leave, presumably he was able to use that to transform or something.

2. Pnuema gives Rex her Core Crystal before heading up to self-destruct the station. Much like any Blade, the Crystal shuts down for a bit after she dies, then simply resonates with Rex after it becomes active again. What with being an Aegis and not quite playing by the same rules, they retain their memories. Also the Low Orbit Station was destroyed, so there's nothing to upload their memories to anyway.


Minor clarification on the last bit; The memories of regular Blades don't upload to the Low Orbit Station, they go straight to the Aegises. That's why their memories don't go anywhere when they return to a Core Crystal and they're both fine when they re-awaken.

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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

We dance for socialism!


So my thoughts on the game after I beat it:

Overall the game was ultimately as good as the first. I feel that the game is a bit underated as I believe it enters the "must play" status for any JRPG fan. But I can understand why some could be disappointed with the game.

With Xenoblade Chronicles, MonolithSoft set off to create one of the most ambitious JRPG of all time, on the Wii no less, and managed to pull it off. That heart and mindset can be felt through the entire game, which is why it's faults can be easily forgiven.

With Xenoblade Chronicles 2, it seems clear that the developers were focused on creating a title worthy of being a sequel to he first game, rather than really grabbing the bull by the horns. Compare and contrast the differences in scope and ambition of Xenoblade Chronicles sequel to that of say the latest Persona game. One title focused on merely being a quality entry and a worthy successor, while the other focused on pushing the series more than ever before and the difference in reception between the two shows.

With that said, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 made a lot of interesting decisions and good decisions as well as ironed out a lot of the series problems.

For starters, the blade system is a great addition to the series. It adds variety to the battle system and helps keep things from getting to take as you can customize each character.

I also don't recall if this was in previous games, but I enjoyed how each Blade had their own field abilities to use and you could focus on leveling those stats up which help unlock secrets and complete quests. I feel that I may be in the minority in this though?

Merc Missions are surprising well done for what they are. I'd assume that they would be too cumbersome but they work just fine and are a good way to rack in experience.

As for things the game has improved, by far the biggest is the pacing. Previous had a terrible issue of having players need to grind for at times hours because they didn't do dozens of sidequests, okay that may be an exaggeration but only a bit.

There were bosses in Chronicles and X where I grinded for two hours to beat, which only happened because I got lucky. With Chronicles 2 however, I almost never needed to do anything when getting to a boss or tough area, and when I did it was usually doing a single side quest or two and a sleep in the inn before I was ready. This is a MAJOR issue in the series that has been solved.

Another is the battle system itself. It seems much easier to break, topple, launch, and smash enemies in this game. While much of this is due to the concept of blades offering a variety of attacks, it is also due to the A.I. of party members being substantially improved.

Nia almost always heals when I want her to, Tora always aggros when I want him too, Zeke almost always launches the enemy in the air for me. As you can see the "almost" implies that many characters aren't perfect, but they are good enough that I can rely on them and not scream at my monitor.

There is also the affinity system which has finally gotten right. Unlike previous titles where affinities we're locked by the time of day and (IIRC) ones level of connection with a party member, you can view affinities at any time as long as the party member isn't gone. This makes things such less of a headache and very enjoyable.

It isn't all an improvement however, and Xenoblade is gonna Xenoblade. For starters I while the battle system is good, the tutorial is just awful to the point it might as well not exist. It barely explains anything and things are just too confusing to figure out on your own.

A perfect example of this are the special combos. Essentially after doing an special, on the top right of the screen it lists which elemental type special you can do next to move on to the next elemental special to close things out.

The issue with this is not only is it initially difficult to see which elemental path leads to what thanks to their being no arrows and things being present in a lost like fashion. There is also the simple fact that it doesn't say that you have to increase the level of your special for each following move. As in of you open up with a level 1 fire special then to continue the combo you have to do a level 2 electric special or stone special. It's simple and intuitive when you understand it but the game doesn't explain this to you, at least not well. Which is shocking because not only is it essential to the game, but also very easy to explain.

Another issue that persists is how side quests, especially fetch quests can just be obtuse. Many times the game will you to collect specific items and parts only to not explain where they can be found. To be fair much of the time it does, but there is always those handful of quests that are frustrating due to the fact that you aren't aware of what reserve to visit.

The final returning issue has more to do with presentation than gameplay, but it's an issue nonetheless. This is with the sexualization of the female characters. Way too often female characters are dressed far too revealing than what is appropriate for their character.

Now to clarify this isn't a complaint that comes from an argument of "sexy female characters are sexist" and what not, but the fact that the clothing decisions of the characters make no sense. Pyra, the main character's blade is a very kind, reserved, and almost timid character. She is even as described by herself "self conscious". Yet despite these things she dresses like stripper. This makes no sense.

Even in the game's events this contradiction is painfully noticeable. Most notably in an affinity that involves Morag's blade criticizing Tora for having his blade be designed with such a fetish and sexual outfit, despite the criticisor having her boobs hanging out. It really takes you out of the game.

What's ironic is that the game's best female characters are those who aren't overly sexualized, which are Morag and Nia (well for most of the game).

There is also the fact that most special female blades the player can equip are humanoids, while all of the special male blades tend to be animals/monsters. And with drivers technically being the "lead" or "coordinators" of the team it is a fact that is a little uncomfortable. For what it is worth, the main cast has no shortage of male humanoid blades though.

In regards to the story, I have mostly positive feelings. The villians have layers, with even the big bad not being so black and white. There is also the fact that you actually interact with and have some sort of connection with the villians.

The main cast is great and is a ragtag group that truly feels ragtag and every character plays their part. One really understands why each character joins the party. The affinity quests also really excited character development as we find and learn new things about them.

The pacing of the story is also very well done. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is one of the most story heavy RPGs I've played, especially for a game that is so open. It seems that just when you are getting bored walking around, there is a cutscene that pads out the experience.

The world is also well developed which includes memorable locations and events. Alrest feels like a living breathing place to explore and immerse yourself in. It also has it's own unique and fashion which while isn't perfect, really helps give the game an identity.

With that said, things aren't perfect. For one whole the story is interesting enough, it can be very cliche. Especially toward the latter half of the game. There's also the fact that the game has the lame "twist" the first Xenoblade Chronicles did. I guess this is mandatory for the series now?

There also the voice work which is pretty mixed. You see, the voices match the characters perfectly, the issue is that the acting is very subpar. Most characters fall into what I call "the David Hayter" problem. Which is that they are too one note. While Rex and Nia sound great, they rarely change from their casual tones. Even when screaming off their top of their lungs they speak as if they are just mildly raising their voices.

The one exception to this is Malos who has the opposite problem. He's always yelling. Half the time I think he's mad when he's just just in casual conversation. But to be fair he dies get mad a lot and when he is he definitely sells it.

All in all the game is a worthy sequel that ultimately more or less stands up to the first. The blade system is a wonderful addition a d many issues have been fixed from the previous titles. Unfortunately, many issues are still present. And while the game is definitely an epic, it is still noticably unpolished.

The game really could have used another few months in development to pad out some mechanics, and fine tune the story. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is as good as we hoped it to be, but in a Persona 5, Breath of the Wild, and God of War environment, I can see why some may have not enjoyed it as much as I have.

Regardless the game is still of very high quality and has sold very well. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 solidifies the Xenoblade series identity and shows that it's here to stay. I will be there day 1 for the inevitable third entry.

Shadowlyger
Nov 5, 2009

FREE
HONG
KONG


Neddy Seagoon posted:

Minor clarification on the last bit; The memories of regular Blades don't upload to the Low Orbit Station, they go straight to the Aegises. That's why their memories don't go anywhere when they return to a Core Crystal and they're both fine when they re-awaken.

I thought they went to the Low Orbit Station where the Aegises sorted through the data, and then when they got stolen by Amalthus Klaus just went through that data himself, on account of having nothing better to do.

U-DO Burger
Nov 12, 2007






IcePhoenix posted:

There's also the bit where Klaus does the "this is my last gift to you" thing or whatever and the stardust he sends out from that is what hits the crystal to reawaken it, so he probably played some part in that as well

my wife and i were very amused that klaus's last gift to rex was two girlfriends

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



punk rebel ecks posted:

I also don't recall if this was in previous games, but I enjoyed how each Blade had their own field abilities to use and you could focus on leveling those stats up which help unlock secrets and complete quests. I feel that I may be in the minority in this though?

I liked all this stuff for the most part (rare blades, affinity trees, skill checks, how it ties into the merc system and area navigation, etc), but it really all needed like one big clean up pass in development to make it 100% less tedious. Still yet to be seen for sure, but it sounds like Torna might be doing this to some degree.

quote:

With that said, things aren't perfect. For one whole the story is interesting enough, it can be very cliche. Especially toward the latter half of the game. There's also the fact that the game has the lame "twist" the first Xenoblade Chronicles did. I guess this is mandatory for the series now?

I felt this way at first, until I realized that it isn't just doing the same twist again but is in fact literally the same event running in parallel with the first game. The missing Aegis being Alvis, the other half of the Architect being Zanza, and the other important story parallels as a result of those. I thought that made it a lot more fun and interesting, but if you didn't enjoy the twist in XC1 then certainly XC2 was going to change your mind about it.

Hopefully they don't feel the need to retread it again for XC3 though.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 would probably take place in some combined world after 1 and 2 ended. Klaus's gift could also be linking the original reality to the new one Alvis ended up in with Zanza and Shulk.


Meanwhile, Xenoblade Chronicles X 2 is going to be the rest of the story they forgot to put in Xenoblade Chronicles X.

numerrik posted:

I think the confusion lies in the fact that both quests start in Tora’s House, and become available in the same chapter.

Poppi's 3rd form doesn't start at Tora's house, it starts with a heart to heart in Leftheria (which then directs you to the house). Even if someone sees two quests in Tora's house it should be a little clear which one is upgrading Poppi for Tora.

Bakalakadaka
Sep 18, 2004



I remember being in awe at the size of poppi 3.

Absolute unit

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010



I completed the game back before any of the extra content was out, did absolutely zero postgame, and haven't touched it since. I finally feel like playing again, but would it make more sense to explore the postgame, or immediately dive into NG+ and do that when I get back around to it again?

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist



Amppelix posted:

I completed the game back before any of the extra content was out, did absolutely zero postgame, and haven't touched it since. I finally feel like playing again, but would it make more sense to explore the postgame, or immediately dive into NG+ and do that when I get back around to it again?

You might want to grab the blades you get from quests first

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010



I did exactly that, and also all the blade quests so I don't have to wait until they're available again to do them.

Also farmed some gold chips and cores from vampire bride marion. Now I'm at a point where I could either spend all my bonus EXP to have a chance against the level 90+ enemies that are around, or just go NG+, which I think I'll do.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



https://twitter.com/CartridgeGames/...995873104568320

Xenoblade chronicles X character elma is one of 2 new expansion pass blades, along with The Light Katana Korvin.

Elma is a Dark blade.

Oh, and both will be available later today.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010



Pharohman777 posted:

https://twitter.com/CartridgeGames/...995873104568320

Xenoblade chronicles X character elma is one of 2 new expansion pass blades, along with The Light Katana Korvin.

Elma is a Dark blade.

Oh, and both will be available later today.

Elma is cool, and I'm glad they knew the correct music to use.

I assume she must have some reaction when Telos is also out.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Expansion pass update is available RIGHT NOW.
Its already downloading.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Ooooooooh boy, swimsuits!

Patch notes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_...h_notes_are_up/

Important bit:

quote:

*The track “Uncontrollable” from Xenoblade Chronicles X has been added to the options available when choosing which music will play during battles with unique monsters via the “Special BGM” selection.
She has overdrive too.


Someone tell me what the heck this is:

quote:

*Certain items for Nia and Zeke will become available from Chapter 8 onward. (These items will be available from the start when playing New Game Plus.)

Crawfish
Dec 11, 2012





The in-universe reasoning behind the swimsuits and the Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade X character crossovers is so, so dumb.

Good dumb though.

Ohtsam
Feb 5, 2010

Not this shit again.


Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Ooooooooh boy, swimsuits!

Patch notes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_...h_notes_are_up/

Important bit:

She has overdrive too.


Someone tell me what the heck this is:

Probably costumes that deal with spoilers

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Crawfish posted:

The in-universe reasoning behind the swimsuits and the Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade X character crossovers is so, so dumb.

Good dumb though.

"Meh meh!This exactly the scene that Archsage write so many stories about and post to Argentum notice board!"

This crossover happened literally due to the Archsage wanting his fanfiction to be canon.

And shulk not knowing what 'milliseconds' are due to his world using a different time measurement.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam
Never be afraid of being yourself!




Since patching, the first couple words of spoken sentences are clipped. Anybody else getting that?

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Corvin has a great personality.

He looks like a jrpg protagonist, and he acts like one too, including accepting every sidequest given to him. That's literally how his affinity chart is revealed: you go to an area, and speak to someone who asks to do something, and then everyone else asks if he can gather this or kill that monster as well, and that fills in the unknown requirements for a row of his affinity chart.

Or you can get the requirements filled in, and just send him on 2 minute Ursula missions to fill in everything fast.

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist



Chronojam posted:

Since patching, the first couple words of spoken sentences are clipped. Anybody else getting that?

I had that once before the patch. Fully reboot your switch

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Ohtsam posted:

Probably costumes that deal with spoilers

Yeah I figured that, just wasn't sure the details. They're just alt-pallets for blade Nia is all sadly.


Anyway, since nobody mentioned it, here's the latest info about Torna:

- Gacha mechanics, Merc missions, and town development are all confirmed gone from the game.
- New Community and Camping systems. Meeting NPCs and doing quests for them builds up communities, which ties into the new crafting mechanics. Every one of the playable characters has a unique type of thing they can craft.
- They said Torna is going to be roughly 30-40 hours worth of content, but you can probably get more if you want.
- Teams lifebars are shared. So Lora/Jin/Haze all have the same HP meter. But some of the damage you take is red life, which will recover if you swap in another character.
- Blade Combos are entirely different now. There is no longer an elemental tree to follow, you can chain together any elements (as long as you haven't used it already in the combo it seems). Orbs seem to simply be based on these combo steps now, so you don't build them up by doing many blade combos. There's probably a lot more to it than that though.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Torna's sounding less like an expansion and more like Xenoblade Chronicles 2.5 the more I hear about it.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Evil Fluffy posted:

Torna's sounding less like an expansion and more like Xenoblade Chronicles 2.5 the more I hear about it.

Yeah I’m really glad because XC2 is insanely good

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Yeah I figured that, just wasn't sure the details. They're just alt-pallets for blade Nia is all sadly.

There actually more.

The certain items for zeke/nia also include their swimsuits

In Nias driver form, her swimsuit reveals the core crystal she hides under her bodysuit.

Zeke wears a tie and some swimtrunks, which means his portion of Pandorias crystal and the huge scarring around it are revealed clearly, not hinted at as in his normal outfit.

That's why they unlock after chapter 8

Crawfish
Dec 11, 2012





If they are actually doing a XCX port, I wonder if they are going to go into more detail about Elma's previous partner/companion/co-pilot, because they are referencing it more in Elma's cutscenes and affinity stuff than I remember it being brought up in the original game.

In XCX it feels like it was shown in a cutscene and very rarely mentioned matter of fact like, but here it seems like she was really close with the dude.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010



Crawfish posted:

If they are actually doing a XCX port, I wonder if they are going to go into more detail about Elma's previous partner/companion/co-pilot, because they are referencing it more in Elma's cutscenes and affinity stuff than I remember it being brought up in the original game.

In XCX it feels like it was shown in a cutscene and very rarely mentioned matter of fact like, but here it seems like she was really close with the dude.

I got the impression her previous partner was the player character, who just doesn't remember it and she's not really pressing the matter.

chumbler fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Aug 25, 2018

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

We dance for socialism!


Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

- They said Torna is going to be roughly 30-40 hours worth of content, but you can probably get more if you want.
Wait is this JUST for the story?

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

- Blade Combos are entirely different now. There is no longer an elemental tree to follow, you can chain together any elements (as long as you haven't used it already in the combo it seems). Orbs seem to simply be based on these combo steps now, so you don't build them up by doing many blade combos. There's probably a lot more to it than that though.

Not sure how I feel about this.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



I take back what I said about Corvin being a jrpg protag, he is clearly a fantasy light novel protagonist, complete with special sword he only pulls out when the opponent warrants it and the ego to match. The english VA fits so well in combination with the personality, making you wanna choke the smarmy bastard when the blade quest is over and done with.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



punk rebel ecks posted:

Wait is this JUST for the story?


Not sure how I feel about this.

No I think they meant the whole thing would have about 30-40 hours of content total for a play through. Probably more to 100% or do bonus stuff.

The Blade Combos thing is still pretty mysterious so far but we really haven't seen what they're doing with it yet. They didn't really show it off at all, just saw that it existed and was very different.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Man Torna sounds like them actually fixing every mechanical issue of XBC2 so Im both excited to play a massively better sequel and slightly concerned about what new fantastic way they can gently caress this up

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam
Never be afraid of being yourself!




It's great that they try new things understand of letting everything stay identical, and aren't afraid to iterate on the design concepts. I was afraid I might burn out by the time it dropped but Torna really sounds different enough and the new difficulty adjustments really removed the grind from the ng+ run I'm in, letting me focus on exploration and boss killing.

WarpDogs
Apr 30, 2009

That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about stars to dispute it.


College Slice

I'm probably wrong but this feels like uncharted territory for JRPGs. I'm getting some major old school PC expansion pack vibes from Torna. In fact it's actually reminding me a lot of Witcher 3's Blood & Wine which similarly improved and changed core game mechanics

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Crawfish posted:

If they are actually doing a XCX port, I wonder if they are going to go into more detail about Elma's previous partner/companion/co-pilot, because they are referencing it more in Elma's cutscenes and affinity stuff than I remember it being brought up in the original game.

In XCX it feels like it was shown in a cutscene and very rarely mentioned matter of fact like, but here it seems like she was really close with the dude.

The problem is you can't just port XCX and call it a day. Not even for the technical reasons of being a WiiU game. The main story is both terrible and unfinished in ways you can't pass off as being pushed for time past the original release.

If there's going to be any sort of re-release (and I'd earnestly love to see one) it needs some serious reworking and polish.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004





College Slice

I sold off XC2 after I finished it and did a bit of the postgame stuff. I'm kind of torn between just getting the standalone Torna expansion and re-buying the whole thing. Is the DLC stuff for the base game any good? It's mainly new blades and associated quests right?

Pierson fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Aug 25, 2018

Silver Falcon
Dec 5, 2005

Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and barbecue your own drumsticks!



Yay new Blades! That Reddit post didn't mention what class Elma is in. Is she a tank or attacker?

Can't wait to have yet more Rare Blades to grind Affinity for! At least they've made that a lot easier now with those new Merc Missions that give a ridiculous amount of Affinity and such.

And yeah XCX would need a serious overhaul if they were going to bring it to Switch.

The_Final_Stand
Nov 2, 2013

So cute and cuddly

Dark Attacker, but she's locked in to challenge mode until you beat Elma: Redux, like Shulk and Fiora were before the Dino mission.

And Redux is a bitch of a mission. She immediately Ghost Factory's, and shortly follows up with Overdrive, enraging, cutting your Blade Affinity and ruining your accuracy. And this time, her doubles seal your party gauge, so you can't res until you kill one.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Pierson posted:

I sold off XC2 after I finished it and did a bit of the postgame stuff. I'm kind of torn between just getting the standalone Torna expansion and re-buying the whole thing. Is the DLC stuff for the base game any good? It's mainly new blades and associated quests right?

- Tons of new blades (I think we're up to 13 now) and their quests.
- NG+ which has a bunch of new features like de-leveling, buying items for bonus XP, new blades, and second skill trees for characters.
- Challenge mode missions which are fun and get you some different outfits for characters, as well as new guest blades.
- Bringer of Chaos difficulty mode and Custom difficulty options.
- Bunch of random new quests, including some multi-rare-blade required ones.

I would say it's all good stuff, but probably not enough to re-buy the game again unless you're interested in playing through it again.

Barudak posted:

Man Torna sounds like them actually fixing every mechanical issue of XBC2 so Im both excited to play a massively better sequel and slightly concerned about what new fantastic way they can gently caress this up

craaaaaaaaafting

Saxophone
Sep 19, 2006





I would do some shameful things to get a remastered XC1 and even just a ported XCX on switch.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole


Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

craaaaaaaaafting

As sad as it is to say, crafting is a step up from the gacha and merc mission mechanics the original game had.

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GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




Saxophone posted:

I would do some shameful things to get a remastered XC1 and even just a ported XCX on switch.

I want XCX on the switch something fierce.

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