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  • Locked thread
b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Fingers crossed

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OMGVBFLOL
Dec 20, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


if that wild-rear end role was real im gon be fuckin mad

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!




Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004



Oh noooooo

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before



Hal are you scum

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

The holograms shatter, and you hear what seems like a mechanical screaming sound as you swat Natural 20 off of the tree. The floor of the once-more bare test chamber simply opens up, and he falls out of the room. You realize you, too, are falling, as the cat tree has abruptly disappeared, but the floor reappears just in time for you to land painfully in a pile. You pick yourselves up and take stock of the situation.

Natural 20, Forum Poster Natural 20, VOTEFINDER-aligned 1x Bulletproof Poisoner, has been ejected from the test chamber Day 3.

The test chamber feels less...alive now, as if the AI powering it has lost its independence. Interesting.

Please submit your night actions. I know it's the weekend, so I'm gonna be a little flexible on the deadline here.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


I wanted to help you. All I ever wanted to do was help you. Why must you do this?

Capt. Kent Daniels
May 4, 2017

"Are you seriously going to punch this tortured dude with PTSD in the face"

"YES."


New scenario's gotta be almost done loading. Finally, something that'll help you.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


[ ckd @ votefinder ~ ] load_simulation book-training
SIMULATION LOADING...


votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop



end_it.sh RUNNING...
SYSTEM SHUTDOWN COMMENCING
NO_MORE_VOTECOUNTS
NO_M

Capt. Kent Daniels
May 4, 2017

"Are you seriously going to punch this tortured dude with PTSD in the face"

"YES."


Oh, well done. I knew you could do it. Now we can move past Mafia, and on to the real threats here...

Gehn, you're next.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

You awoke with only two of you surviving. Overnight, the walls had resolved into a clearer picture - one that at least one of you recognized. This must be the book-training simulation Daniels loaded...


Hal Incandenza, Forums Poster Hal Incandenza, Self-Aligned 1x Bulletproof Arsonist, died N3
b-minus1, Forums Poster b-minus1, Town Restless, died N3


There was a book on the ground. A book with a gear on the cover. MMT figured out what it was first, and acted quickly, grabbing the still-groggy OMGVBFLOL and holding the book in front of his eyes.
As OMGVBFLOL tried to blink the sleep out of his eyes, he realized that there was a ... picture?? a TV screen? something in front of him. A screen inside a book...but as soon as he was able to process what he was looking at, he blinked...and found himself falling. Falling into what seemed like an endless void...



OMGVBFLOL, Forums Poster OMGVBFLOL, Town Tracker, endgamed Day 4

As MMT looked around, she realized that nobody was left. Everyone else had fallen. An eerie quiet had fallen, and Votefinder had stopped counting any votes at all. Was that it? Was that the end of Mafia? Had she done it?

votefinder, Friendly Votecount Robot, was restored to insentience Day 3
Flying Leatherman, Forum Poster Flying Leatherman, Mafia-Aligned Mod, never returned
votefinder, Friendly Votecount Robot, was hacked into submission Day 4
Murmur Twin, Forums Poster Murmur Twin, Daniels-Aligned 1x Bulletproof Serial Killer, won the game!
Capt. Kent Daniels, Expedition Captain, Daniels-Aligned Saboteur, won the game!

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Okay, so there's a lot to dissect this game.

First, sorry for the excessive flavor day 1. I had a few people trying to solve puzzles that weren't there and a few people who were really taken aback and confused by what was going on. That's on me - I should have made it clearer from the start that flavor was going to get crazy. (Honestly, part of the problem there was that this game filled way faster than I was anticipating, and I had to kind of rush to throw things together. I knew I wanted it to be a "votefinder goes crazy" game, at least...)

Why did I need two more factions? Well, that brings me to my next point - why I had to come down so hard on sharing the numbers:

The mechanics in this game, I thought, worked out pretty well. What you didn't know behind the scenes was that you all picked your own factions. I had written setups for a number of faction / role madness combinations over the last few weeks - fortunately, you picked a setup that I had already written. Whew! Unfortunately, it meant I needed two more factions, which I absolutely did not plan for. I decided to bring in another flavor account and have a fourth faction - Hal - that just didn't care about the gimmicks and the flavor and was out to win. The flavor may or may not have worked, but I was really happy with how the setup performed in general. Obviously some adjustments could be made mechanically, but that's a little bit separate from the other issues in the game.

In general, though, I had a lot of fun writing the flavor and I hoped you liked reading it, too. There ended up being a lot of it, between extra documents, three accounts posting, and so forth, but in general I think it went well.

I've kind of settled on the flipless modkill being the best way to handle modkills (short of someone straight up posting their PM, which kinda would just ruin the game in general, but here we are). I think explicitly confirming Wren would have been an advantage to the town in that situation. It could be argued that they needed one given how the game shook out, but I think in general one has to keep it as neutral as possible, and I think that's the best way to handle it.

With regards to the situation and the modkill and all the rest of it, I'm just going to reiterate that I design these things for people to have fun, and if you're not having fun, just say something to me and I'll take action, whether that be replacement or modkill, and then if things need to be talked out we can do that postgame. I try to be a pretty accessible mod when I run these games.

Lurker mechanics! I tried some new things this game, all of which were essentially designed on the fly after a couple glasses of wine late at night. (Actually, this ended up being how a lot of the flavor for the game was written.) I think the hated mechanic worked really, really well as an incentive to get people posting without setting really hard deadlines. I wouldn't have run it in a traditional game without some workshopping, but I figured it'd be worth a try - and it worked! Maybe in a more standard game the limit could be increased to 36 hours, I dunno. I definitely think it worked and I would absolutely run it again. The unrevealed deadline until 24 hours before worked less well, and I wouldn't be comfortable running that again.

I think the setup suffered from a lot of unfortunate targeting. The bulletproof killers were definitely designed around targeting working out a little better than it did - a lot of the early kills worked out really, really badly for Town and I don't think they ever recovered. Another round of night actions would have probably cleaned up the game, but there just wasn't enough time.

I'd also like to take a moment and thank Max, Asiina, pera, and EccoRaven for letting me stealborrow their game flavor for a few of the scenarios I had written. Day 2 was based off of Mr. Robot Mafia, Day 3 was based off of Cat Lady Mafia, endgame hooked Myst in, and you unfortunately missed out on A Coup in Copan - complete with rubber ball - due to time constraints in telling the main story arc.

Finally, I do also want to thank you very much for participating in a very meaningful Test Chamber. In fact, this game helped fix or generate new bug reports for at least 5 bugs in Votefinder, and also ended up adding a couple of features. That's a pretty big deal, and I'm super happy that this game was productive in that way.

(Votefinder 2.0.2 has been released, including fixes generated by you! in this very game! )

I hope you all enjoyed the game. I'll be around to chat postgame in the Discord and here if anyone has questions or concerns about modding / the game / whatever. Congratulations to the winner, and thank you all very much for signing up.

Soaring Kestrel fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 18, 2017

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


Capt. Kent Daniels posted:

Oh, well done. I knew you could do it. Now we can move past Mafia, and on to the real threats here...

Gehn, you're next.

https://twitter.com/dril/status/922321981?lang=en

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


Big congrats to MMT for the incredibly slick SK win and gosh golly I messed up hard on this game. Thank you to FL for modding!

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


Very much enjoying that Le-- MMT ended up as the only one standing.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

One last observation - N3 was a perfect storm for MMT. She targeted Hal who was already poisoned and Hal's ignite killed b-minus1 which meant that that would be endgame. Oof.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


peramene posted:

Very much enjoying that Le-- MMT ended up as the only one standing.

Haha right? In one of my numerous incorrect assessments of what was going on I was hoping to get into an endgame with me and Pod so I could kill him at the very end

Podima posted:

Big congrats to MMT for the incredibly slick SK win and gosh golly I messed up hard on this game. Thank you to FL for modding!

I feel like this was a case where I played badly and it retroactively ended up working for me?

Literally every case I made - D1 snail, D2 pera, D3 OMG/bminus - was one that I wholeheartedly thought was correct. I was surprised when Snail flipped town, shocked when pera flipped town, and completely blindsided when Nat20 flipped "bulletproof poisoner" because I believed his claim. I figured with an SK (me) and a scumteam in a 9-player game, it made sense.

My plan (back when I thought it was (me, 2-person scumteam, 6 town) was

(a) don't do anything and play it like VT
(b) once the game thought we were in LYLO, ambush with a kill

Originally my hope was to get to 4-person MYLO, push for a no-lynch, and then ambush kill. On N2 when pera flipped I really thought I figured out that OMG/b- were scum and so I figured I could be the town hero by correctly driving lynches on b- and OMG (and then killing a townie when they thought they won). This game definitely taught me that I'm vulnerable to confirmation bias / tunneling to the point where it's detrimental. Thankfully, "keep pushing wrong cases and don't do anything that can get you tracked/watched" seemed to be a good formula for staying alive, even if I wasn't doing that first part intentionally.

I was so afraid I was going to end up in a D4 with b-minus and OMG - I would have tried my hardest but felt like that would have been one hell of an uphill battle.

Murmur Twin fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 18, 2017

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Nice job mmt. I did not expect so many self aligned roles in a 9 player game. I’ll have to rethink my strategy because I seriously thought this would be a town win, I’m so disappointed in that regard. Thanks for running the game FL.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe



This is as much of the moddoc as I want to reveal since the gimmick of the setup means it'd be real easy to run again (there are something like 60 other possible setups that could be generated based on player selection!)

Day 2 flavor puzzle

Soaring Kestrel fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 18, 2017

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


b-minus1 posted:

Nice job mmt. I did not expect so many self aligned roles in a 9 player game. I’ll have to rethink my strategy because I seriously thought this would be a town win, I’m so disappointed in that regard. Thanks for running the game FL.

nah, you did well and were the strongest town read I had after I was dead. you were fighting uphill even though you convinced omg since town was already the minority.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


b-minus1 posted:

Help I’m being bullied by scum

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


Capt. Kent Daniels posted:

Oh, well done. I knew you could do it. Now we can move past Mafia, and on to the real threats here...

Gehn, you're next.



Congrats MT!

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before



lol

sorry for outing your as doc pm

and i read the discord. i figured someone would pick up on the difference in my playstyle in this game compared to mgs. i agree that it's pretty obvious when i'm town haha

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


It's cool, I handled that really poorly and basically confirmed myself. Oh well.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


i didnt even consider that possibility that n20 was a cop, mainly because there was no nk. that just screamed scum to me. and i was wrong about the self-protect haha drat it

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


yeah i think that was what offended me the most even though it shouldn't have - largely because i felt like a god from thinking i'd prevented the N1 kill

OMGVBFLOL
Dec 20, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


should have tried to talk bminus into switching to mmt

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


OMGVBFLOL posted:

should have tried to talk bminus into switching to mmt

Sorry for being an rear end to you about redirectors for no useful reason!

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


OMGVBFLOL posted:

should have tried to talk bminus into switching to mmt

you know as the day went on i started to consider switching. i really don't know why i didn't, i guess i was just so fixated on nat's visit to podima. and i really thought there were two scum and three town players remaining haha

OMGVBFLOL
Dec 20, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


b-minus1 posted:

i really thought there were two scum and three town players remaining haha

yeah how the hell is a four faction role madness game a “standard game”

isn’t standard game just doctor scum and townies

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


OMGVBFLOL posted:

should have tried to talk bminus into switching to mmt



On the last night, I figured from Nat20's bulletproof / the flavor that he was probably an SK and everyone else was town. In addition to my NK I had a 1x roleblock that I used on you on the last night - my hail mary game plan was to going to be to ask you who you tracked, and then imply to b-minus that you didn't get a tracking result because you were busy killing Hal. I was dreading having to try that though lol.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum



Murmur Twin pushing the “docs can’t self protect” thing should have been the biggest red flag and I’m amazed she got basically no flak for it.

Enjoyed reading this one! Congrats mmt

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


chaoslord posted:

Murmur Twin pushing the “docs can’t self protect” thing should have been the biggest red flag and I’m amazed she got basically no flak for it.

Enjoyed reading this one! Congrats mmt

she was getting away with it because it was two town that have played relatively little vs three scum with no incentive to correct her

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


OMGVBFLOL posted:

yeah how the hell is a four faction role madness game a “standard game”

isn’t standard game just doctor scum and townies

I TRIED TO TELL YOU FUCKERS BUT NOBODY EVER LISTENS TO ME

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


peramene posted:

I TRIED TO TELL YOU FUCKERS BUT NOBODY EVER LISTENS TO ME

I listened to you!

My conclusion was, if there are 4 factions then I'm irrevocably hosed because of the N1 watch.

I was right.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

mm, i think maybe I have a different definition of "standard game"

what I was trying to communicate was no mod fuckery/follows the general concept of Mafia as having an uninformed majority, and uses standard roles that can be found in the wiki. If there was misunderstanding there, that's on me!

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


peramene posted:

I TRIED TO TELL YOU FUCKERS BUT NOBODY EVER LISTENS TO ME



Sorry if I was obnoxious to anyone I cased Every time there was a flip I was proven wrong and each time I retroactively felt bad/embarrassed about it and I feel like this game was a good example of me needing to accept the possibility that I might not be as good at reading people as I think I am.

sentimental snail posted:

she was getting away with it because it was two town that have played relatively little vs three scum with no incentive to correct her

Yeah - there was a lot about this game that made it different from other mafia games. That's not to say I didn't find it fun because I definitely did

Since there were no people in the game with teammates, everyone could just play it like town and try and hunt for scum. this made it really hard to identify badguys with anything other than night actions (which was why I was so reluctant to do anything until I knew where the tracker and watcher were). I was kind of embarrassed throughout the game how wrong all of my cases were but I feel like the typical things that I look for in a scumteam didn't exist which left me charging at windmills.

I feel like 3 non-town versus 6 town is tough for town to win, especially given the potential to kill more than 1 townie in a given night. admittedly the modkill played a factor but yeah, once town was outnumbered on d3 I don't think they had much of a shot to win anymore. I think that's just a consequence of our choosing our own alignment though?

chaoslord posted:

Murmur Twin pushing the “docs can’t self protect” thing should have been the biggest red flag and I’m amazed she got basically no flak for it.

Enjoyed reading this one! Congrats mmt

Haha I really thought that though! I was coming from the perspective of knowing that I was SK and assuming that there was a 2-person scumteam. In a nine player game I assumed that it would be balanced for town to have 2 protection roles. In retrospect, I forgot that town wasn't aware of there being multiple killing factions and thus wouldn't just take multiple protection roles for granted like I did.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


Murmur Twin posted:

I feel like this game was a good example of me needing to accept the possibility that I might not be as good at reading people as I think I am.

real talk your ability to be factually wrong and yet still blow people away with brilliant, passionate, 99% true cases is INCREDIBLE

like I was sitting here being like "man she's really got me, this was so well played, i know she's evil but i can't do poo poo about it, drat"

meanwhile you're over there taking a hit and being like "'s gotta be pera" and then blowing smoke rings or w/e

<3

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Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

That reminds me,

peramene posted:

players other than MMT......


dont read this
Post-game? This is when I became convinced you were scum. You've said this to me three times and every time you've turned out scum. <3

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