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Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012






Rorac posted:




But that...

Why would that matter? HOW would that matter?


I think it's because of wire crosstalk and/or the fact that the color pairs have a different number of turns per meter along the length of the cable, so the electrical data would get out of sync depending.

But I've seen it before too.

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Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK



That's gotta be right up there with the 500km email issue.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


That sounds more like a MTU issue than anything with layer 1.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

Http 418




I always learned that as long as the wires are the same on both ends, and you keep the pairs paired, the actual colors didn't matter. Is this not true?

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

RFC2324 posted:

I always learned that as long as the wires are the same on both ends, and you keep the pairs paired, the actual colors didn't matter. Is this not true?

I imagine crosstalk would gently caress it up if you have tx and rx or either with poe in the same twisted pair. Not make it totally unusable, but would impact performance especially if you are running 1gig and poe

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








RFC2324 posted:

I always learned that as long as the wires are the same on both ends, and you keep the pairs paired, the actual colors didn't matter. Is this not true?

This is correct.

Judge Schnoopy posted:

I imagine crosstalk would gently caress it up if you have tx and rx or either with poe in the same twisted pair. Not make it totally unusable, but would impact performance especially if you are running 1gig and poe

There's no way for this to happen if you keep the colors the same at both ends and keep the pairs paired.

E: as far as OP's problem goes, my guess is that the cables were crimped incorrectly to begin with.

Don't crimp your own cables, it's just not worth it. Just get a bunch of pre made ones in different lengths.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





spankmeister posted:

Don't crimp your own cables, it's just not worth it. Just get a bunch of pre made ones in different lengths.

So much this. Life is too god damned short to be making your own patch cables.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

Http 418




doing your own cables for home is cool and fun, since you only ever need to do one or two. doing 1000 of them at work is dumb

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




RFC2324 posted:

doing your own cables for home is cool and fun, since you only ever need to do one or two. doing 1000 of them at work is dumb

Tell that to the 50 runs of structured cable I need to punch down and keystone

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

Http 418




Jaded Burnout posted:

Tell that to the 50 runs of structured cable I need to punch down and keystone

yeah, installing jacks and poo poo sucks, but mostly because I hate trying to run wire through walls.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012






spankmeister posted:

There's no way for this to happen if you keep the colors the same at both ends and keep the pairs paired.

E: as far as OP's problem goes, my guess is that the cables were crimped incorrectly to begin with.

Don't crimp your own cables, it's just not worth it. Just get a bunch of pre made ones in different lengths.

I'm guessing they either didn't keep the pairs paired or missed a wire while crimping.

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013
ASK ME ABOUT NOT TIPPING DELIVERY DRIVERS, OR ABOUT MY DIET OF CANNED BABY CORN AND CHICKEN NUGGETS

Jaded Burnout posted:

Tell that to the 50 runs of structured cable I need to punch down and keystone

How much is your time worth relative to buying 50 premade cables of standard length off monoprice

Super Soaker Party!
May 4, 2006

He may be a madposter but he's OUR madposter

Methanar posted:

How much is your time worth relative to buying 50 premade cables of standard length off monoprice

?

JB's talking about his new house, and punching down infrastructure cables to patch panels. Are you seriously suggesting he run premade patch cables through walls and direct connect to computers on one end and his switch on the other? Just because it's a house doesn't mean you have to treat it like rocks and trash you need to sweep up.

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

My sole partiality is to that delectable spiced meat. Any additional confederation of vegetables shall not compromise the pie as I see it.

Crimpin' ain't easy.

Obsoletely Fabulous
May 6, 2008

Who are you, and why should I care?


Super Soaker Party! posted:

?

JB's talking about his new house, and punching down infrastructure cables to patch panels. Are you seriously suggesting he run premade patch cables through walls and direct connect to computers on one end and his switch on the other? Just because it's a house doesn't mean you have to treat it like rocks and trash you need to sweep up.

I'm pretty sure they make wall plates/jacks that are male to male with a jack on each side so you can use premade cables. I know they used to make the for phone line.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Obsoletely Fabulous posted:

I'm pretty sure they make wall plates/jacks that are male to male with a jack on each side so you can use premade cables. I know they used to make the for phone line.

Iím not a monster, Tim.

chin up everything sucks
Jan 29, 2012



Rorac posted:




But that...

Why would that matter? HOW would that matter?

Basically I had them as 1,2,3,4,5,6 on one end, and 1,2,4,3,5,6 on the other end. Or something like that.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



The poo poo bit about cabling up your house isn't punching down some wires into krone blocks, it's the monumental ball ache that is running cables in the first place.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

With how good WiFi is, why run cables? Your house isn't (presumably) that big that three waps can't give you 100mbps+ to every device

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Judge Schnoopy posted:

With how good WiFi is, why run cables? Your house isn't (presumably) that big that three waps can't give you 100mbps+ to every device

Two issues there, one is that underfloor heating on timber floors means aluminium spreader plates, so the wifi is trash downstairs.

Second is that I throw a lot of video around locally so 100mbps ain't gonna cut it for some of the high bitrate stuff.

Third, if I've got all the walls, ceilings, and floors up, why not?

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Judge Schnoopy posted:

With how good WiFi is, why run cables? Your house isn't (presumably) that big that three waps can't give you 100mbps+ to every device

wifi is incredibly unreliable and some of us actually have gigabit and want to use it

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


TheFluff posted:

wifi is incredibly unreliable and some of us actually have gigabit and want to use it

If your wifi is incredibly unreliable you hosed it up somehow. (Still, you gotta run wires for the APs anyway.)

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Three wasps deliver me all the bandwidth I need, entering through the hole in the subfloor I punched for them

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




You punched holes? I just glue battery powered mesh repeaters to the ceiling

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013
ASK ME ABOUT NOT TIPPING DELIVERY DRIVERS, OR ABOUT MY DIET OF CANNED BABY CORN AND CHICKEN NUGGETS

Super Soaker Party! posted:

?

JB's talking about his new house, and punching down infrastructure cables to patch panels. Are you seriously suggesting he run premade patch cables through walls and direct connect to computers on one end and his switch on the other? Just because it's a house doesn't mean you have to treat it like rocks and trash you need to sweep up.

A bit rude.

I missed the part about it being for a house and assumed it was making custom length cables for a DC. I'd still suggest using these types of keystone in your wall plates and premade cables rather than doing it yourself. It's likely the same price in the end after buying a good crimping tool. https://www.amazon.com/VICTEK-Femal...n%3A15562490011

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Inspector_666 posted:

If your wifi is incredibly unreliable you hosed it up somehow. (Still, you gotta run wires for the APs anyway.)

Nah. You literally cannot buy working wifi in consumer devices. It does not exist. Maybe for enterprise it's different but in practice it's noticeably flaky no matter the setup. It works fine most of the time, but that's not good enough. Reliable networks exist, even in consumer devices, but they use cables. At home, I have an Asus RT-AC68U. My desktop has essentially unbroken line of sight to it, and it's maybe five meters away. I run on the 5GHz band and there are pretty much no other SSID's visible on that band where I live. I usually only connect one device to the wifi at a time, and most of the time I can get 4-500 megabits/s, which is pretty much as good as you can reasonably expect. Under these close to ideal conditions though, wifi is still loving wifi. You get ping spikes, you get dropped packets, and I can only actually use my gigabit internet connection if I use it from my NAS (which is connected to the router with a cable). The wifi service in Windows has a long standing bug that makes it derp out every once in a while and start causing 1-2 second ping spikes every 30 seconds unless you turn off the wireless autoconfig service. At work where basically everyone connects via wifi and we do have enterprise AP's setup, it still doesn't work reliably and occasionally flakes out.

Wires work. They can be dozens of years old and still work. They're cheap. Why do people hate simple things that work well?

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 26, 2018

dragonshardz
May 2, 2017




Javid posted:

Crimpin' ain't easy.

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011


TheFluff posted:

Nah. You literally cannot buy working wifi in consumer devices. It does not exist. Maybe for enterprise it's different but in practice it's noticeably flaky no matter the setup. It works fine most of the time, but that's not good enough. Reliable networks exist, even in consumer devices, but they use cables. At home, I have an Asus RT-AC68U. My desktop has essentially unbroken line of sight to it, and it's maybe five meters away. I run on the 5GHz band and there are pretty much no other SSID's visible on that band where I live. I usually only connect one device to the wifi at a time, and most of the time I can get 4-500 megabits/s, which is pretty much as good as you can reasonably expect. Under these close to ideal conditions though, wifi is still loving wifi. You get ping spikes, you get dropped packets, and I can only actually use my gigabit internet connection if I use it from my NAS (which is connected to the router with a cable). The wifi service in Windows has a long standing bug that makes it derp out every once in a while and start causing 1-2 second ping spikes every 30 seconds unless you turn off the wireless autoconfig service. At work where basically everyone connects via wifi and we do have enterprise AP's setup, it still doesn't work reliably and occasionally flakes out.

Wires work. They can be dozens of years old and still work. They're cheap. Why do people hate simple things that work well?

I have a similar problem with an Asus 5GHz card, generally works if I use the Asus driver and not the MS one, but ... still issues. This is like 3 meters from the router, with near line of sight.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Judge Schnoopy posted:

With how good WiFi is, why run cables? Your house isn't (presumably) that big that three waps can't give you 100mbps+ to every device

If you're setting up three WAPs the proper way instead of some janky mesh/extender setup, you still need to run cable quite a ways.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




If it helps everyone feel better, three of the cables are for wireless APs.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Sup binches


Maybe my routerís WiFi just isnít very good, but I started getting way faster down speeds once I moved my router onto my desk and directly connected. You also never drop your WiFi connection and arenít sending anything over the air when youíre wired in.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Most older consumer poo poo still runs G which caps at 23 Mbps or somewhere near there, so wiring in would quadruple your speed.

I run old G poo poo as a hard bandwidth throttle so my kids can't suck up the bandwidth with their tablets and whatever else.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Most older consumer poo poo still runs G which caps at 23 Mbps or somewhere near there, so wiring in would quadruple your speed.

I run old G poo poo as a hard bandwidth throttle so my kids can't suck up the bandwidth with their tablets and whatever else.

Yeah.

Effective usable speeds of variants of 802.11 with excellent signal and low client interference:
a: 24 megabits per second
b: 5 megabits per second
g: 24 megabits per second
n: 48 megabits per second on 2.4 GHz and the hybrid channels, 80 megabits with the large channels and on 5 GHz
ac:100 megabits per second on 2.4 GHz, ~240 megabits per second on 5 GHz (provided the clients are sufficiently equipped)

You can of course do some crazy poo poo with proper ac equipment, like how those wifi pillars that are replacing payphones in NYC can provide connections over 450 megabit per second to a modern smartphone.

fishmech fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 27, 2018

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Sup binches


Yeah, mine was N-band, I think I have AC now but moved the router before I bought the new computer.

Sounds like no matter what you're not going to get anything approaching gigabit through WiFi. Gigabit is kind of excessive either way, but if you're paying for it you might as well use it.

Super Soaker Party!
May 4, 2006

He may be a madposter but he's OUR madposter

Methanar posted:

A bit rude.

I missed the part about it being for a house and assumed it was making custom length cables for a DC. I'd still suggest using these types of keystone in your wall plates and premade cables rather than doing it yourself. It's likely the same price in the end after buying a good crimping tool. https://www.amazon.com/VICTEK-Femal...n%3A15562490011

You're right, I was grumpy because my boss signed up one client last week that's hired us to do a complete infrastructure migration from Microsoft-land to cloud-based everything, and THEN he signed up a lolholyshithuge client two days ago, and we're starting at that client Tuesday. So I'm working this entire weekend scrambling to get a whole bunch of poo poo in order at our OTHER clients so that Tuesday is only "gently caress me running" levels of awful instead of "blow my brains out" level. Anyway I shouldn't have been that snippy about it (haha, snippy get it because punching down cables ) and I'm sorry. I thought the sweeping joke was good though.

That said, I still don't agree with using pre-made cables in walls - infrastructure should be punched down. Patch cables, gently caress no, Monoprice it is, but in-wall cabling (well, that's ALSO Monoprice, just bulk cable and punchdown jacks).

edit: never don't use wired connections. Maybe it's just because I also throw around a lot of media (unprocessed video & audio recordings, so actual giant files, not MP3s), but wireless as a main form of connection would be awful in my house and I have 802.11ac APs connected at gig.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





22 Eargesplitten posted:

Yeah, mine was N-band, I think I have AC now but moved the router before I bought the new computer.

Sounds like no matter what you're not going to get anything approaching gigabit through WiFi. Gigabit is kind of excessive either way, but if you're paying for it you might as well use it.

Also, wireless networks are a half-duplex, shared medium so you will never get the advertised bandwidth. Radio transceivers can send or receive but not at the same time. On top of that you also share the medium with other active wireless supplicants, so if they are active as well that will cut into bandwidth and CTR/CTS can start to have a small impact as well (depending on how chatty everyone is being). Thatís not even getting into RF Interference, attenuation, reflection and absorption depending on device and occlusions.

LethalGeek
Nov 4, 2009



I'm honestly shocked there are people who would post ITT and think wifi is enough, ever. It will never fully replace a good wire because of ^^^ all that.

Plus more in thread theme I can count the number of times an ethernet connection randomly decided not to work one hand VS the 3" binder I would need to properly log the number of times wifi went eh gently caress it for no clear reason.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Turns out the idea of 'enough' is subjective!

Running wires in my house sucks. WiFi works. That's enough for me

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Sup binches


My dad's an electrician and ran Cat5e throughout the entire house I grew up in, so I got spoiled.

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Javid
Oct 21, 2004

My sole partiality is to that delectable spiced meat. Any additional confederation of vegetables shall not compromise the pie as I see it.

I clearly remember 28.8k dialup and have a hard time complaining about what minimal losses my AC router on 5ghz imparts to my 60 mbit connection. It works for everything I need it for.

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