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i don't know what it's like for specialists in general or dba's in particular, but the labor market for programmers in stockholm is actually insane. it's full of expats because of the demand. i make a good chunk more money than a close friend with a masters degree in civil engineering who has something like 4 years of experience in high voltage power networks at this point, for doing dumb javascript poo poo. also it's not that 700k is bad per se, it's approaching 90th percentile for private sector white collar workers country-wide, but again stockholm is kinda crazy at the moment and the market rate should be higher than that. as an expat you will also have difficulties with the housing market so expect to pay at the very least 10k SEK/month in rent, and probably more like 15k if you want to live in the inner city. salaries also start to flatten out when you get above, say, 800k/year or something like that, because the marginal tax rate starts getting really high. i got massively lucky and live cheap with no commitments so i can save close to 50% of my salary but i'm very atypical among people i know. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 20:11
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if its for amazon are there also RSUs on top?
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Nov 20, 2019 20:22
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so what you're telling me is that if i move to stockholm i can easily earn a real six and a half figgies
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Nov 20, 2019 20:25
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hobbesmaster posted:if its for amazon are there also RSUs on top? RSU's count as income when vested and are taxed as such here. there is no tax benefit to getting them at all afaik, so employee stock benefit programs are rather uncommon.
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Nov 20, 2019 20:28
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TheFluff posted:RSU's count as income when vested and are taxed as such here. there is no tax benefit to getting them at all afaik, so employee stock benefit programs are rather uncommon. there's no (meaningful) tax or accountancy benefit in the u.s., either* they would just rather pay you in stock to increase your engagement with the firm * the accountancy benefits were eliminated long ago; paying you in stock used to be good for company balance sheets, but not any more, unless you spend a lot of time gazing lovingly at twitter's "non-GAAP" numbers
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Nov 20, 2019 20:44
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paying you in stock means the money is coming from dilution of existing investors, and the company can just print more stock, unlike say, cash money
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Nov 20, 2019 20:47
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oh i see, dunno where i got the idea that it was a tax benefit to the employee
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Nov 20, 2019 20:54
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TheFluff posted:I'm in Stockholm and I make 600k as a python/javascript/sql web generalist at ~100 employee company with ~7 years of experience*, and I turned down an offer at a different place for 660k when I got this job a year ago because I didn't want to work in adtech. An actual specialist role with longer experience should pay better than that, especially at bigco. How much quality of life does this buy you in Stockholm?
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Nov 20, 2019 20:57
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TheFluff posted:oh i see, dunno where i got the idea that it was a tax benefit to the employee afaik you pay capital gains on any gains the stock makes since you got it which can be a lower rate than income tax
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Nov 20, 2019 21:05
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DELETE CASCADE posted:paying you in stock means the money is coming from dilution of existing investors, and the company can just print more stock, unlike say, cash money when this is actually written down for accounting purposes there is no difference. gaap forces you to account for all of this. it is exactly as if you had paid cash.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:07
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TheFluff posted:oh i see, dunno where i got the idea that it was a tax benefit to the employee Shaggar posted:afaik you pay capital gains on any gains the stock makes since you got it which can be a lower rate than income tax this depends on exactly how they pay you but it's all basically the same. whenever the options/rsus become actual stock, you owe income tax on the value. after you get the actual stock in hand, then you can pay capital gains on future gains. however, there is a tax benefit if you are rich and foolhardy. if you have a lot of cash in your pocket and an iron belief in your company, you can elect to pay the taxes early with an 83(b) election so let's work with a few scenarios, with and without an 83(b) election. scenario 1, no election
scenario 2, with an 83(b) election
the point of these long stories is that you have to have a lot of trust in "number go up" for an 83(b) election to make sense. you also gotta have a bunch of cash on hand to actually pay the tax
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Nov 20, 2019 21:16
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tl;dr: there is almost never a tax benefit to the employee from paying in stock. there can be, under extremely restrictive circumstances, if the employee is rich enough and optimistic enough executives often take the 83(b) option because they're practically required to hold large amounts of company stock anyway, so why not roll the dice and maybe save a few bucks on taxes regular employees, there's little incentive to do so
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Nov 20, 2019 21:17
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Boiled Water posted:How much quality of life does this buy you in Stockholm? not the op but I make similar money with 3 years experience and it’s actually decent compared to a lot of other European capitals that I’ve compared to. the renting situation is not really a free market so unless you have extremely good contracts, expect to pay a lot (can be over 12k for 1br in inner city) or put down 15% for a mortgage. it’s not legal (or according to policy or something) to offer mortgages with less than 15% down but it does happen sometimes (contacts again I guess).
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Nov 20, 2019 21:23
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Boiled Water posted:How much quality of life does this buy you in Stockholm? i get a bit under 36k/month after tax, on paper. this year i used the opportunity my employer offered to get an additional 10 days of unpaid vacation on top of the 30 paid days i already get so in practice it's ~5% less. rent is 4500 (again, extremely lucky, extremely cheap in a decent suburban area, ~30 minute subway commute to work). for a normal person this is probably more like 10k at least. i eat out a lot because i'm lazy and can afford it so food is somewhere around 5k/month but it could be more if ate out every day or got more fancy lattes. public transportation is 900/month. clothing, toilet paper, internet and other necessities a few thousand. floating hole that i throw money into (sailboat) maybe 1k/month averaged over the year, all told. end result is, i've been able to save around 16-18k/month in the last few months. i am single shutin nerd though and other than the boat i don't really have any expensive hobbies, and as i said for most people rent is probably at least twice what i pay. it's an upper middle class income, basically. e: also note i barely have student loans either because all i took was two terms of history. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 21:31
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Maximum Leader posted:not the op but I make similar money with 3 years experience and it’s actually decent compared to a lot of other European capitals that I’ve compared to. the renting situation is not really a free market so unless you have extremely good contracts, expect to pay a lot (can be over 12k for 1br in inner city) or put down 15% for a mortgage. it’s not legal (or according to policy or something) to offer mortgages with less than 15% down but it does happen sometimes (contacts again I guess). that's really good with that experience, i think. do you have a degree? always interesting to compare notes on pay - thanks for posting. the union salary statistics aren't really reliable for this type of job in my experience because the number of non-unionized workers is so large.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:36
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TheFluff posted:that's really good with that experience, i think. do you have a degree? yes, I have a bachelor’s degree. salary is decent but I could make more switching company, I’m quite comfortable where I am for now though. Glassdoor is pretty good for salaries, if you don’t put in anything other than location in your search you will get a top list of companies there.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:49
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asked my boss again for a raise and was told again, 'maybe next quarter' so my passive job hunt is now active. checking out the website of one of our smaller but up-and-coming competitors i saw an open position with, 'accepting all west coast applicants' which TECHNICALLY doesn't mean they're also rejecting all east coast applicants. decided to send them an email for clarification yesterday and one of them just added me on linkedin this morning. let's get those figgies 
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Nov 21, 2019 16:25
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the sad look a manager makes when you hand in your notice a couple of weeks after they turned down your nth request for a raise man, it just makes you feel alive
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Nov 21, 2019 18:19
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jesus WEP posted:the sad look a manager makes when you hand in your notice a couple of weeks after they turned down your nth request for a raise
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Nov 21, 2019 18:20
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you hate to see it. it's compounded by the fact that management is constantly reminding us to redouble our recruiting efforts because we have a ton of projects on ice due to a lack of qualified consultants to staff them. welp
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Nov 21, 2019 18:22
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it really sucks because like i've said a bajillion times i really like this job and the people i work with but i'm so underpaid i'm basically robbing myself. genuinely thought they would be a bit more receptive to the raise discussion seeing how everything else is so well managed but i guess no one's perfect
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Nov 21, 2019 18:25
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my gig is the exact opposite, the work is unbelievably lovely but they pay better than most anywhere locally to stop everyone just up and leaving
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Nov 21, 2019 18:27
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PIZZA.BAT posted:management is constantly reminding us to redouble our recruiting efforts because we have a ton of projects on ice due to a lack of qualified consultants to staff them. welp huh weird a place that pays poo poo is having severe hiring problems? strange
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Nov 21, 2019 18:33
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How do you not tell a recruiter your salary requirements. None of mine will loving let it go
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Nov 21, 2019 18:35
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Progressive JPEG posted:huh weird a place that pays poo poo is having severe hiring problems? strange no it's just me. i've been talking about this with coworkers and they're shocked when they hear how little i'm paid. they've been the ones encouraging me to update my resume and at least threaten management with a competing offer
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Nov 21, 2019 18:35
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this week marks 4 months of pretty much sitting on my balls achieving nothing, so working on changing teams internally. the current team is probably the most dysfunctional that i have ever been in. we are 2/3 into the last quarter, getting jolly hr emails about getting ready for your yearly goal review and our manager has stopped even apologizing for not getting everyone's 4th q goals set while team continues to have a bus factor of 1.00000000001 (see other people know some poo poo too so it's not all bad) while everything revolves around the child emperor lead dev and also a side hustle of sending out 1 phd application (haha this will never even get me even close to an interview) and 1 scheduled in person next week at some computer vision startup
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Nov 21, 2019 18:38
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Scionix posted:How do you not tell a recruiter your salary requirements. you tell them your current plus 20-30% i.e. the number that you would accept if you got the offer and the company does not succ
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Nov 21, 2019 18:39
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Penisface posted:you tell them your current plus 20-30% i.e. the number that you would accept if you got the offer and the company does not succ pad it more than that
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Nov 21, 2019 20:56
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Scionix posted:How do you not tell a recruiter your salary requirements. if they won't let it go it's because they have extremely poo poo clients who are obsessed with the loving number, so you might as well just throw out a number so you're disqualified for those jobs and they'll shut the gently caress up
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Nov 21, 2019 20:57
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Scionix posted:How do you not tell a recruiter your salary requirements. get comfortable with the idea that you are going to have to end some of these phone calls with “it doesn’t look like we can move forward, thanks for your time.”
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Nov 21, 2019 21:33
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If they're really trying to screw you down on salary right out the gate then there is no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow
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Nov 21, 2019 21:36
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^^^ all of the above ^^^
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Nov 21, 2019 22:06
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i think i need to start looking for an internal transfer. 75% of my job is basically being part of another department, and while i like my current team, my manager apparently has some fantasy that they're a master of interface design and uses the considerable uh... flexibility of one of our main tools to whip up a masterwork of how not to do a computer interface. they also don't have any interest whatsoever in listening to why it sucks and delegate everything to team leads, who are only empowered to repeat "manager likes the current UX" (manager does not ever use the current UX) that or gently caress off elsewhere. stripe recruiters have come calling; they seem competent as a company. the south SF thing is p eh, but whatever. does anyone know otherwise as to whether or not they suck (for SRE roles)?
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Nov 22, 2019 08:23
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:i think i need to start looking for an internal transfer. 75% of my job is basically being part of another department, and while i like my current team, my manager apparently has some fantasy that they're a master of interface design and uses the considerable uh... flexibility of one of our main tools to whip up a masterwork of how not to do a computer interface. they also don't have any interest whatsoever in listening to why it sucks and delegate everything to team leads, who are only empowered to repeat "manager likes the current UX" (manager does not ever use the current UX) sounds like you both have your transfer readymade, if it is possible at all CMYK BLYAT! posted:that or gently caress off elsewhere. stripe recruiters have come calling; they seem competent as a company. the south SF thing is p eh, but whatever. does anyone know otherwise as to whether or not they suck (for SRE roles)? all companies suck just get paid
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Nov 22, 2019 08:35
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i really like my job, how long until i become bitter
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Nov 22, 2019 12:45
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2 years is the tipping point imo
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Nov 22, 2019 12:46
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barkbell posted:i really like my job, how long until i become bitter you might never become bitter. i know some people in a non computer industry who are happy as clams and have worked the same place 25 years
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Nov 22, 2019 12:52
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ive been here 2 weeks ive got some time nice
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Nov 22, 2019 13:07
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was put on a marketing mailing list after applying to a video game studio and getting form lettered, that’s a new one
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Nov 22, 2019 18:41
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Iverron posted:was put on a marketing mailing list after applying to a video game studio and getting form lettered, that’s a new one lol this just happened to me too with the company i reached out to a few days ago good to know we've found the hot new trend
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Nov 22, 2019 18:52
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